Carnage Question

[urcoconuts]

I am specced in the carnage tree at level 47. Looking at massacre it does about the same damage if not more than vicious slash when you add up the plain damage and the damage bonus from ataru form. Should i just forget about using vicious slash or do you think i should keep it in rotation?

[AcaciaDragon]

you sure you read the tooltip right?

 

Strikes the target with both weapons for 247 - 378 weapon damage and automatically triggers an Ataru Form strike. For 6 seconds after using Massacre, your Ataru Form has an extra 30% chance to be triggered. Requires two lightsabers.

 

it triggers an extra strike, viscous slash just does damage. Your bassically getting a free hit. And itll proc blood frenzy giving your next force scream a crit, as well as extra crit damage, for that and your ataru form strike.

[urcoconuts]

you sure you read the tooltip right?

 

Strikes the target with both weapons for 247 - 378 weapon damage and automatically triggers an Ataru Form strike. For 6 seconds after using Massacre, your Ataru Form has an extra 30% chance to be triggered. Requires two lightsabers.

 

it triggers an extra strike, viscous slash just does damage. Your bassically getting a free hit. And itll proc blood frenzy giving your next force scream a crit, as well as extra crit damage, for that and your ataru form strike.

 

Just answer the question, I stopped using vicious slash when i got it. I was just asking others if they did the same to make sure maybe if i was doing something wrong. My logic told me differently and my DPS was amazing in flashpoints without vicious slash.

[AcaciaDragon]

it triggers an extra strike, viscous slash just does damage. Your bassically getting a free hit. And itll proc blood frenzy giving your next force scream a crit, as well as extra crit damage, for that and your ataru form strike.

 

I did answer it. It does more damage from its effects, not just its normal damage. Its suppose to replace your Vicious Slash.

[Kibaken]

my sig.

[xO_om]

I have a different opinion about Massacre/Vicious Slash at end-game.

 

Kibaken, your guide is excellent, thank you for taking the time to make it. You said:

 

Massacre: No cool-down, costs 3 rage, automatically deals an Ataru strike and increases Ataru strike chance by 30% (for a total of 50%) for 6 seconds. This does roughly the same amount of damage with the Ataru proc as Vicious Slash, and is therefore its replacement (there's a reason Ataru Berserk reduces the rage/GCD for Vicious Slash AND Massacre).

 

However, consider this: For 6 seconds after you press Massacre, you will have Blood Frenzy and the Massacre buff. During that 6 seconds, if you were to press Vicious Slash and happened to proc an Ataru strike with it (50% chance), it will do more damage in that GCD than Massacre. As long as you don't let the Massacre buff fall off, isn't it better to use Vicious Slash when you can?

[JustinxDuff]

I have a different opinion about Massacre/Vicious Slash at end-game.

 

Kibaken, your guide is excellent, thank you for taking the time to make it. You said:

 

 

 

However, consider this: For 6 seconds after you press Massacre, you will have Blood Frenzy and the Massacre buff. During that 6 seconds, if you were to press Vicious Slash and happened to proc an Ataru strike with it (50% chance), it will do more damage in that GCD than Massacre. As long as you don't let the Massacre buff fall off, isn't it better to use Vicious Slash when you can?

 

IT definitely is, especially if you spec into the increased crit chance for vicious slash

[Kibaken]

I can definitely see where your logic is coming from, however you will never use Vicious Slash as a Marauder. Even during Berserk you're not always going to follow Massacre up with another Massacre. If your cool-downs happen to fall like this

 

 

Massacre, Vicious Slash, Gore, Battering Assault, Ravage

 

 

Both Gore and Battering Assault will not benefit at all from the Massacre buff, as our GCD is 1.5 seconds and Ravage is a 3 second cast.

 

As soon as you hit Massacre the buff is applied, so by the end of the GCD the buff is already at 4.5 seconds. After using Vicious Slash the buff will have 3 seconds left, Gore will leave 1.5 and you will not be able to use Ravage with the buff since it came off CD during the GCD and at the end of the GCD your buff is gone.

 

 

If we look at doing two Massacres then our 3 priorities:

 

4.5 at the end of the first Massacre, 4.5 again from the refreshed buff, 3 after Gore, 1.5 after Battering Assault and then we allow Ravage to start the cast before the buff wears off (as long as an ability is started before the buff wears off it will gain the benefit of said buff (this includes starting Ravage with .5 seconds left on Gore)).

[Kibaken]

I can definitely see where your logic is coming from, however you will never use Vicious Slash as a Marauder. Even during Berserk you're not always going to follow Massacre up with another Massacre. If your cool-downs happen to fall like this

 

 

Massacre, Vicious Slash, Gore, Battering Assault, Ravage

 

 

Both Gore and Battering Assault will not benefit at all from the Massacre buff, as our GCD is 1.5 seconds and Ravage is a 3 second cast.

 

As soon as you hit Massacre the buff is applied, so by the end of the GCD the buff is already at 4.5 seconds. After using Vicious Slash the buff will have 3 seconds left, Gore will leave 1.5 and you will not be able to use Ravage with the buff since it came off CD during the GCD and at the end of the GCD your buff is gone.

 

 

If we look at doing two Massacres then our 3 priorities:

 

4.5 at the end of the first Massacre, 4.5 again from the refreshed buff, 3 after Gore, 1.5 after Battering Assault and then we allow Ravage to start the cast before the buff wears off (as long as an ability is started before the buff wears off it will gain the benefit of said buff (this includes starting Ravage with .5 seconds left on Gore)).

 

Using Vicious Slash would, overall, mean less of our priority abilities getting a Chance for an Ataru.

 

Edit: woops, I definitely meant to edit my last post.

Edited December 27, 2011 by Kibaken

[xO_om]

Now that I've actually had a lot of time experiencing this spec with Massacre, I have to agree that it's probably beneficial to use it pretty much all the time. About the only time using VS makes sense is if everything else is on cooldown, and you don't have Berserk up, and you anticipate 3 Massacres in a row. Instead, use Mass>VS>Mass. Not even sure if it's worth having it on the bar.

[EasymodeX]

Ending this discussion:

 

1. Base Vicious Slash + 50% chance of Ataru is roughly equal to Base Massacre + 100% chance of Ataru.

 

2. Massacre has a +30% crit damage bonus from the other talent.

 

 

Massacre + 100% Ataru + 30% crit damage bonus > Vicious Slash with 50% Ataru. Massacre replaces Vicious Slash as long as your crit rate is over roughly 0% or so.