Cortimi Posted December 30, 2015 Share Posted December 30, 2015 Here is how to fix the entire state of the PvP game with absolutely zero impact whatsoever to PvE: REMOVE THE HEALING BONUS TO EXPERTISE. Problem solved, everyone wins. Sorcs can continue to faceroll, DPS can continue to suck, and premades will have to rely on skill to win once again. Raiders and operation heroes will be entirely unaffected whatsoever. EVERYONE WINS!!!! Why this ridiculously simple common sense solution has not been implemented after a tremendous amount of forum-wreckage over the subject is absolutely baffling. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Saikochoro Posted December 30, 2015 Share Posted December 30, 2015 You do realize this would nerf more than just sorcs right? Not a good solution. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Romansonesix Posted December 30, 2015 Share Posted December 30, 2015 I like the idea. I've had enough heal wars. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lhancelot Posted December 30, 2015 Share Posted December 30, 2015 If you nerf healing you have to nerf some of the burst dps classes. The only thing keeping anyone alive through some of the insane burst is heals. But, w/e. There are many facets to a warzone that make for competitive fights and really awful lop-sided battles where it seems one side is totally overpowered because of class comps, premades, or some other reason. It's not overpowered heals that are turning 8v8s into never-ending heal battles. It's guard by good tanks, and subpar dps that couldn't kill a healer alone, let alone pressure one with guard. If you want proof just put any healer in a 4v4 or ranked match, and none stand and face-tank good dps while barely breaking a sweat like you see in some 8v8 matches. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Romansonesix Posted December 30, 2015 Share Posted December 30, 2015 (edited) I agree and disagree. I think what we have is a perfect storm. Easy to play heals that are overperforming (though we can debate to what degree that occurs but it is occurring). No matchmaker for regs. Which I think the majority of subs play there giving a need for it. No 8v8 ranked. I think this would keep the more (some) serious gamers from steam rolling regs. I didn't think I'd ever say guard as I've mained a tank for years but some Compelling arguments have been made recently that it are very powerful. Roots, stuns and increased mobility on both sides make dps more difficult (though certainly not impossible). Sages and sorcs do have an impressive toolkit that no other one class has. And we've had the same fotm for around two years which had only increased the number of these classes (class) to a nauseating level. Edited December 30, 2015 by Romansonesix Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ThorgrimLutgen Posted December 30, 2015 Share Posted December 30, 2015 (edited) Here is how to fix the entire state of the PvP game with absolutely zero impact whatsoever to PvE: REMOVE THE HEALING BONUS TO EXPERTISE. Problem solved, everyone wins. Sorcs can continue to faceroll, DPS can continue to suck, and premades will have to rely on skill to win once again. Raiders and operation heroes will be entirely unaffected whatsoever. EVERYONE WINS!!!! Why this ridiculously simple common sense solution has not been implemented after a tremendous amount of forum-wreckage over the subject is absolutely baffling. Please, go back to your tactical flashpoints. Do you have any clue whatsoever what you are asking for? Essentially, unless you totally rebalance all classes (which they are not about to do) in the wake of your removal of healing expertise buff, you may as well say goodbye to the trinity, then the game as a whole. You are just another kill chasing duellist............ (oh no!!! i cant kill the big nasty sage healer!, nerf nerf nerf, its not me that's crap at playing my class !) ..............with no concept of how to actually win. Edited December 30, 2015 by ThorgrimLutgen Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rantank Posted December 30, 2015 Share Posted December 30, 2015 I have a screen shot of the scoreboard of me healing in a 4v4 reg.... and I have taken zero damage. That was unusual as I would normally take at least some cleave or splash damage. Zero damage.... and given there were only 3 other people, its not like I could get lost in the crowd..... zero damage.... yep, that healing sure is over powered. Nerf it quick. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ganthen Posted December 30, 2015 Share Posted December 30, 2015 I agree, sorcerers should only be able to cast their long cast heal, and their cure spell while in pvp, and maybe possibly their resurgence, they are just wildly over powered and just need to be lowered a little bit. I think these things would bring them down to normal level. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vodrin Posted December 30, 2015 Share Posted December 30, 2015 The only global healing nerf that should be considered at all, and I am still not sure it would be a good idea, is to increase the strength of the trauma debuff. This also would have minimal effect on PvP and would allow smaller adjustments in heal strength than the OP's suggestion which seems more than a little heavy handed. Just as an aside, I would prefer it if healers functioned such that almost all heals were HoT's that needed to be refreshed only once in a while, there was one or two big nuke heals with substantial cooldowns, and healers spent most of their time using damage abilities. Played a game designed like that previously and it was one of my favorite PvP experiences. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
digitalyn Posted December 30, 2015 Share Posted December 30, 2015 (edited) Here is how to fix the entire state of the PvP game with absolutely zero impact whatsoever to PvE: REMOVE THE HEALING BONUS TO EXPERTISE. Please think before writing If they do so, there will only be 1 healer class remaining in warzone: sorcerers/sages. I already often feel i'm lacking some heal power (but still love agent/scoundrel), i would have no choice than going dps to be worth something (and still hot my mates). Edited December 30, 2015 by digitalyn Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jaggannath Posted December 30, 2015 Share Posted December 30, 2015 Please, go back to your tactical flashpoints. Do you have any clue whatsoever what you are asking for? Essentially, unless you totally rebalance all classes (which they are not about to do) in the wake of your removal of healing expertise buff, you may as well say goodbye to the trinity, then the game as a whole. You are just another kill chasing duellist............ (oh no!!! i cant kill the big nasty sage healer!, nerf nerf nerf, its not me that's crap at playing my class !) ..............with no concept of how to actually win. This basically. OP needs to go back to their call of duty/warcraft. Theres plenty of games out there already providing the type of gameplay being asked for by him. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AlrikFassbauer Posted December 30, 2015 Share Posted December 30, 2015 OP needs to go back to their call of duty/warcraft. Theres plenty of games out there already providing the type of gameplay being asked for by him. I personally prefer games like Divinity : Original Sin. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Keldaur Posted December 30, 2015 Share Posted December 30, 2015 It's interesting how people say "if you nerf heal you have to nerf burst". Guess i my 4.03 patch notes are different from other people. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Domjon Posted December 31, 2015 Share Posted December 31, 2015 It's got to get fixed... It's not fun. I only pay for fun. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Master-Nala Posted December 31, 2015 Share Posted December 31, 2015 It's interesting how people say "if you nerf heal you have to nerf burst". Guess i my 4.03 patch notes are different from other people. Burst wasn't nerfed all that much. Let's think of it like this. An equivalent nerf to heals would be: Bodyguard Warden - Now increases the critical healing bonus of all heals by 5% (from 15%) Medicine Accomplished Doctor - Now increases the critical healing bonus of Kolto Injection, Kolto Infusion, and Surgical Probe by 7.5% (from 20%). Corruption Roaming Mend - Force Cost of Roaming Mend reduced to 40 (from 50); healing has been reduced in proportion to the cost reduction Revivification - Force Cost of Revivification reduced to 50 (from 60); healing has been reduced in proportion to the cost reduction. That would do exactly nothing to make heals less powerful. Likewise, the burst nerfs in 4.0.3 were mild to say the least and certainly haven't made burst any less overwhelming right now. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lhancelot Posted December 31, 2015 Share Posted December 31, 2015 That would do exactly nothing to make heals less powerful. Likewise, the burst nerfs in 4.0.3 were mild to say the least and certainly haven't made burst any less overwhelming right now. Yeah, from what I have personally felt in wzs, this is 100% true. The only complaints I have heard of are from snipers/gunslingers with their MM/SS specs being nerfed that sound reasonable. I do not think they should have been touched personally but I know many people cried about them hitting for too much damage. I guess LOS is hard. As for mara, PTs, and even juggs their burst is real and doesn't seem one bit less than before the nerf. I guess it is, but they still have no trouble pouring out more than enough burst to kill. If anything, there are many dps classes that really need to be adjusted and improved. That's what I really wish would happen, some attention towards classes that actually need it. Why do they (the devs) keep adjusting classes that are either fine or even over-performing compared to the rest? Bring the weak classes up to par and the wzs would be more interesting with different class spec varieties. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Terrorshard Posted December 31, 2015 Share Posted December 31, 2015 I just want something done. Between this and Guild Wars 2 bunker meta (the 2 games I play), it is super maddening to fight fight fight and nothing dies. I think this is more frustrating because there is no interaction with sorcs. Even if I get them to where I can kill them, their 10 secs of invulnerability that I have no counter play for. It is auto loss in pug 4v4 simply because you just can't kill them fast enough/at all. Can't target the sorc and can't not target the sorc... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lhancelot Posted December 31, 2015 Share Posted December 31, 2015 I just want something done. Between this and Guild Wars 2 bunker meta (the 2 games I play), it is super maddening to fight fight fight and nothing dies. I think this is more frustrating because there is no interaction with sorcs. Even if I get them to where I can kill them, their 10 secs of invulnerability that I have no counter play for. It is auto loss in pug 4v4 simply because you just can't kill them fast enough/at all. Can't target the sorc and can't not target the sorc... Only thing to fix this issue is to put you in with proper classes and players with similar skill levels. AKA create matchmaking for warzones. The problem with PUGs in 4v4s is that usually you end up with people of all kinds of varying degrees of skill which can make for an awful PVP fight. Also, some classes simply are gimped in 4v4s, without the proper support. If you happen to end up in a 4v4 with a commando, and without a tank and healer, well there's a good chance the commando will be rendered useless. Snipers too. Lots of classes just need proper support to perform well, and an uncoordinated PUG rarely can provide that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FerrixWGW Posted December 31, 2015 Share Posted December 31, 2015 I think just reduce the wondering mend healing, by 25 - 40% and it won't be so bad. Guard should have some down fall for use, 50% split to tank is fine on the guard side, but tanks should take increased damage the longer the guard stays up, and a debuff to prevent a quick re-apply at no penalty now that tanks are putting out DPS it should be adjusted. Put a defense modifier in that could slow the uptick in dmg to the tank, this would give defense a place in pvp and at least try to make tanks not power aug their gear. It would make skank tanking less effective as well. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ZackMeck Posted December 31, 2015 Share Posted December 31, 2015 Healing is a little over the top, sorcs are my only gripe really other healers you can take down even with guard up, sorcs its just a little to much with the bubble and the shield. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lalainnia Posted December 31, 2015 Share Posted December 31, 2015 Yeah, from what I have personally felt in wzs, this is 100% true. The only complaints I have heard of are from snipers/gunslingers with their MM/SS specs being nerfed that sound reasonable. I do not think they should have been touched personally but I know many people cried about them hitting for too much damage. I guess LOS is hard. As for mara, PTs, and even juggs their burst is real and doesn't seem one bit less than before the nerf. I guess it is, but they still have no trouble pouring out more than enough burst to kill. If anything, there are many dps classes that really need to be adjusted and improved. That's what I really wish would happen, some attention towards classes that actually need it. Why do they (the devs) keep adjusting classes that are either fine or even over-performing compared to the rest? Bring the weak classes up to par and the wzs would be more interesting with different class spec varieties. Nope don't need a power creep that doesn't fit the current Hp values will just blow apart TTK. Sorcs and Ap pts ,Sorcs need to lose 1 thing out of there triple package healing,utility, resource one of those things needs to be NERFED they not only excel in those 3 areas but dominate. Pts in general need a static barrier like debuff for carbonize and AP pts need to have their massive co efficient damage values brought down. O and arsenal mercs surge not sure how they dodged the previous stuff. As for sorcs still dying that's suppose to happen to any healer without team support from opposing focus fire. So many times have I seen some type of warrior and maybe a op or sin open up on a healer while other teammates do meaningless damage on non marked targets no healer can do anything about that they should die. If any sorc is currently being 1v1ed by anything other then an AP pt there is a great deal of room for improving. A tank can greatly reduce that inc damage with guard+taunt(aoe) and well timed cc but those combos will still die from great dps and well timed use of cc to separate and interrupts For the weak classes if anything imo the only spec that needs a damage bump are pyro pts and primarily with the aoe immolate and scorch these . If anything these "weak" specs need better def cds imo. One thing Iv'e always felt like bioware went wrong with was sharing what used to be tree specific talents instead of making all new ones. I feel a great example are lighting sorcs while their damage could be better and recklessness needs to work on TB they are honestly squishy and are less self sufficient compared to madness in the past it was only lighting that had access to the bubble stun and knockback root. If this was still the case and lighting could pick up 2 completely new utilities that would be great. And sure you would have some ppl complain that A B and C spec couldn't function without this utility but guess what they never had it to begin with. Ultimately tho not only do you even need bioware tto actually act any sort of balance change needs to go out that will take into consideration of when nerfing have to look at all areas being talked about like nerfing burst dps but not touching sorcs or arsenal and failing to change the values of AP pts it makes no sense. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baramaethor Posted February 6, 2016 Share Posted February 6, 2016 To be honest, PvP is close to un-playable now. PvP'er in my guild starting to unsub, can't bare the boring heal-wars. Most Warzones now have a swarm of Sorc/Sage heals, some with guard on. Why Bioware just not adjust this to balance pvp more is a puzzle??? Just adjust some of the abilities that a Sorc/Sage heal have, without messing up their capabilities in PvE should be do-able. E.g. significant longer CD on Bubble - dont allow them to heal up while in an immune bubble., remove phase walk only allow Assassins to have it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TarlokUchiwa Posted February 6, 2016 Share Posted February 6, 2016 Here is how to fix the entire state of the PvP game with absolutely zero impact whatsoever to PvE: REMOVE THE HEALING BONUS TO EXPERTISE. Problem solved, everyone wins. Sorcs can continue to faceroll, DPS can continue to suck, and premades will have to rely on skill to win once again. Raiders and operation heroes will be entirely unaffected whatsoever. EVERYONE WINS!!!! Why this ridiculously simple common sense solution has not been implemented after a tremendous amount of forum-wreckage over the subject is absolutely baffling. The actual heal output isn't a problem. I agree that the problem is the modest matchmaking. In a scenario where all players have the same level of skill: Teams with four healers and two tanks -> nothing will die Teams with two healers and one tank -> something will die Teams with one healer -> ez get rekt Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Russreklaw Posted February 6, 2016 Share Posted February 6, 2016 If you nerf healing you have to nerf some of the burst dps classes. The only thing keeping anyone alive through some of the insane burst is heals. But, w/e. There are many facets to a warzone that make for competitive fights and really awful lop-sided battles where it seems one side is totally overpowered because of class comps, premades, or some other reason. It's not overpowered heals that are turning 8v8s into never-ending heal battles. It's guard by good tanks, and subpar dps that couldn't kill a healer alone, let alone pressure one with guard. If you want proof just put any healer in a 4v4 or ranked match, and none stand and face-tank good dps while barely breaking a sweat like you see in some 8v8 matches. Ok first off.. I want people to die! I dont care if I die. Pvp where healers can keep both sides up (happens too often in wz's) is tremendously BORING. If a dps outplays me or my team.. or vice versa there has to be consequences. Healing far too often leads to stagnation. Wish they would nerf healing and the stupid guard thingy in pvp. So glad WoW didn't have that bs. Whoever thought of it has probably already been fired. Nothing changes the outcome of a wz more then one person playing a healer.. But that just shouldnt be. You have made healers "good" just by sake of how strong you have made them. It's not like they do some super cool move.. just by being average they are great. That sucks the life out of pvp. This game could have such great pvp.. I've seen how great it can be any time I que for pvp and no pure healers are in the wz. Step on some toes and dont risk offending some average players who become above average just by choosing a healing class. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
turboooo Posted February 6, 2016 Share Posted February 6, 2016 (edited) To be honest, PvP is close to un-playable now. PvP'er in my guild starting to unsub, can't bare the boring heal-wars. Most Warzones now have a swarm of Sorc/Sage heals, some with guard on. Why Bioware just not adjust this to balance pvp more is a puzzle??? Just adjust some of the abilities that a Sorc/Sage heal have, without messing up their capabilities in PvE should be do-able. E.g. significant longer CD on Bubble - dont allow them to heal up while in an immune bubble., remove phase walk only allow Assassins to have it. Peps are un-subing all the time because of healing. Its outrageous! Why they're not fixing it? is a puzzle may be they want the game dead? Not sure. Its sad because the game had a pop again because of the movie. Its about gone now. But i agree pvp is pretty much unplayable in its current state at 65 of coarse. Its boring. Nothing dies in war-zones. I Really don't care why or how. I want it fixed so pvp with be fun again! Plus peps quitting in droves isn't helping anything. At some point peps will give up on the fixing it at all and they will leave too. Well they can fix it or the game will fix it with the population. Edited February 6, 2016 by turboooo Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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