This is what happens if you 'streamline' leveling content...

[Nothing_Shines]

I generally only use GF for ops now, pre made that is. The daily tactical GF rewards aren't worth the trouble, especially at 65.

 

But it's not just lowbies screwing things up. Those same type of useless players being discussed reach 65 real quick and then it becomes lowbie alts of people who do know how to play carrying endgamers who don't have a clue. The last time I ran a tactical was on my 26 merc grouped with a 20 sniper, 32 ops healer, and a 65 sin dps for Korriban. Guess who had to be vote kicked for constantly pulling trash, not stealthing, breaking CCs and refusing to click the Kolto stations during boss fights. The 65.

 

We ended up 3-manning it with the sniper's comp and it was smooth sailing after that.

 

That was luck of the draw, though. Getting 2 other people who are competent is hardly a given. Why bother?

 

And it's much more fun and challenging to run the tacticals solo at endgame anyway.

 

Teaching wave upon wave of people who have no interest in learning how to get better and only want to Zerg until they hit the wall and rage quit is not my idea of fun. Now, if BW wants to start paying me instead of the other way around, or even just offering in-game mentoring rewards to stick with these players, I'd certainly consider it.

Edited December 21, 2015 by Nothing_Shines

[Jakoby]

I just came back after a year and a half and almost puked when I realized they had eliminated the trees and hybrid builds altogether.

 

I thought I would give the new system a chance and started a new character to get a clear handle on the new system, I leveled to 18 on Corusant! I was running around in fleet with level 6 gear on a level 18 character and hated the new discipline system.

 

I immediately called customer service and demanded a refund. The game is over for me.

 

There is the opinion of what most returning players will experience after being revitalized by the new movie.

 

I beleive your right the game is dead, EA killed it.

[GalacticKegger]

I made this suggestion just the other day. One way to address tactical "difficulty" is to allow people to queue into smaller groups and run with their companions. Not solo mode, but 2 people with 2 comps or 3 people with 1 comp. It allows all groups to have a healer if necessary and gets tacts to pop even faster. I recommend this as an option, so people can decide if they want to run with 4 humans total or fewer.

My wife & I are old school ops veterans who walked into tact Hammer Station as a level 17 tank/heals team with full 54 blues plus 2 players equally geared and were quickly flashpapered by the gear check mob. (4th mob in, not including the droid pat in the hangar bay.) After five wipes with no chance to advance we said the hell with it, QT'd to our respective strongholds and logged.

 

It blows me away, how people are practically bragging that there is no issue with tacticals because they can solo it with their 60s. Reality check ... players who are working their characters up through early game (spoiler alert: new players ... hello?) and follow the planet transports to fleet for some flashpoint action couldn't give a rat's *** about what the 60s think. And they shouldn't have to. Shame on the leetist jerks for thinking otherwise.

 

This new low maintenance one size fits all system flat out doesn't work. Hell, dev had a hard enough time getting the one size fits one system to work. But at least it was balanced fairly, fun to progress through (with the emphasis on progress) and worth the effort. But this?

 

I gifted two RL friends with 60 days worth of timecards the week before 4.0 dropped because they got sucked into the hype & wanted to try it out. They left already and are trying to get me to go back to WoW. This is embarrassing.

Edited December 21, 2015 by GalacticKegger

[LordJestR]

I just came back after a year and a half and almost puked when I realized they had eliminated the trees and hybrid builds altogether.

 

I thought I would give the new system a chance and started a new character to get a clear handle on the new system, I leveled to 18 on Corusant! I was running around in fleet with level 6 gear on a level 18 character and hated the new discipline system.

 

I immediately called customer service and demanded a refund. The game is over for me.

 

There is the opinion of what most returning players will experience after being revitalized by the new movie.

 

I beleive your right the game is dead, EA killed it.

 

Something tells me you didn't read OP post at all

[LordJestR]

My wife & I are old school ops veterans who walked into tact Hammer Station as a level 17 tank/heals team with full 54 blues plus 2 players equally geared and were quickly flashpapered by the gear check mob. (4th mob in, not including the droid pat in the hangar bay.) After five wipes with no chance to advance we said the hell with it, QT'd to our respective strongholds and logged.

 

It blows me away, how people are practically bragging that there is no issue with tacticals because they can solo it with their 60s. Reality check ... players who are working their characters up through early game (spoiler alert: new players ... hello?) and follow the planet transports to fleet for some flashpoint action couldn't give a rat's *** about what the 60s think. And they shouldn't have to. Shame on the leetist jerks for thinking otherwise.

 

This new low maintenance one size fits all system flat out doesn't work. Hell, dev had a hard enough time getting the one size fits one system to work. But at least it was balanced fairly, fun to progress through (with the emphasis on progress) and worth the effort. But this?

 

I gifted two RL friends with 60 days worth of timecards the week before 4.0 dropped because they got sucked into the hype & wanted to try it out. They left already and are trying to get me to go back to WoW. This is embarrassing.

 

So you did the new tacticals with a tank, a healer and 2 whatevers and still wiped. Are you trying to say the new tacticals are tougher than the pre 4.0 version?

[ZeroTypeR]

Hmm. Idk, there's no reason they shouldn't have atleast been geared, since every player starts off with customizable pilot gear (with 12 crystals per class quest after a certain point) and also gets a customizable weap after completing the story on the starter planet. Yea sure, it's not the best visually, but it's more than enough to atleast keep their stats up to date.

 

Skillwise, if they didn't know how to use their class, there's more than enough players to give them tips on how to play and what skills/stats to build and considering their lvl's, they should've atleast been playing long enough to know the basics, there's no excuse for that.

 

Not sure I can blame that on the high exp (if you are), since even as is, it takes quite a few fp runs or wz's battles to get to the 20 or 30 lv range (more than enough to get familiar with their class).

Edited December 21, 2015 by ZeroTypeR

[Justbee]

I stopped doing tacts and heroics period. Nothing could make me do them again with the way things are lol.

 

same! Bad loot, bad comms as reward, a bunch of bad players in groupfinder means: bad fun in their tripple warmed up content.

[GalacticKegger]

So you did the new tacticals with a tank, a healer and 2 whatevers and still wiped. Are you trying to say the new tacticals are tougher than the pre 4.0 version?

The new tacticals tougher than the pre 4.0 level-appropriate versions? For level-appropriate characters making their way through early game? Oh hell yes. Not even close. They are impassable in early game which has nothing to do with L2P or their being "tougher."

 

One size fits all tacticals do not work - and won't ever work - because the level 10 to level 65 min/max Δs are way too extreme. Tuning them to accommodate early game was a forgotten afterthought as the entire game was recreated to accommodate the 4.0 expansion and the higher levels. Early gamers are expected to speed level through content to end game where the balance exists. Players who want to actually play the game at lower levels got screwed. Period.

 

Jump on a level 17 with 3 others of similar level and appropriately geared who have a clue, then try tactical Hammer Station for yourself. Not that it matters, but I would be interested to find out how it went.

Edited December 21, 2015 by GalacticKegger

[Halinalle]

Hmm. Idk, there's no reason they shouldn't have atleast been geared, since every player starts off with customizable pilot gear

 

Only if they were subscribers at launch of GSF.

 

Skillwise, if they didn't know how to use their class, there's more than enough players to give them tips on how to play and what skills/stats to build and considering their lvl's, they should've atleast been playing long enough to know the basics, there's no excuse for that.

 

Why players don't do this if it's so easy to just teach them?

 

I usually try but I can't remember exact level when you get specific abilities. I even try to write the name of the ability (yes, I have played all ACs).

 

same! Bad loot, bad comms as reward, a bunch of bad players in groupfinder means: bad fun in their tripple warmed up content.

 

Yeah, I know the feeling. I was in FP run with three level 65s who had way over 72k hp. I had something like 104% accuracy (level 48 gear, accuracy only in implants and earpiece) on my level 56 or something DF Gunslinger but I ripped aggro left and right. Had to pop defensive cooldowns in every pull.

Edited December 21, 2015 by Halinalle

[ZeroTypeR]

Only if they were subscribers at launch of GSF.

 

Good point.

 

Here's an alternate idea: On the fleet, the supply vendor has customizable armor (adaptive) for 6 crystals each, 42 crystals are all that's needed for a full armor set (armor is lv 7).

[Halinalle]

Good point.

 

Here's an alternate idea: On the fleet, the supply vendor has customizable armor (adaptive) for 6 crystals each, 42 crystals are all that's needed for a full armor set (armor is lv 7).

 

By the time you have enough crystals you want to replace the mods. Why? Because mods in those shells are level 8 and you're most likely level 17-18 when you have enough crystals to get them all.

 

Full cost to replace all mods in all 9 pieces:

2 x (9 x 2 + 7) = 50 crystals

Edited December 21, 2015 by Halinalle

[Isnogut]

The sollution to all this is simple, because it was already in there prior to 3.0. Damphen the leveling exerience to pre 3.0. If people want to level fast, they already have the levelbooster. Do reshape the missions the way they were. By that people are forced to learn their class and behave proplery for it. At the moment it is a real mess. people in here are absolutely right. It's not only that newbys have no clue, they don't get the chance to learn what the class and specc is actually doing.

 

Why did BW changed all this in the first place anyway? It's like reinventing the wheel by cutting off the circle and replacing it with a hooverboard. And after that they are suprised people don't know how to change tires anylonger.

 

...and don't you even start arguing "can't force people to play, blabla". What the heck are we playing here? Who gets first to level cap or a freakin neverending MMO?`If you want to play from start at max level, don't wonder you don't have much content to play in an MMO.

[Holocron]

I started leveling a new Knight alt. When I left Tython, I reached 22nd level after doing all the missions on the world. While I did use a 25% xp increase buff, I wasn't expecting to end up at that level even with 2x XP running. When I visited all the crafting trainers I ended up reaching 24th level and I've not even reached the capitol planet yet! They've had to buff the XP given because the last time I leveled an alt on the starter planet, I didn't reach any where near the level I did with this toon. That's just crazy and I believe it is contributing to the problem when the OP and you are pointing out.

 

Yeah It is almost borderline absurdity. It may be great for players who've been here for years and have altoholism, but for new players I bet it is really off putting. If there is no real challenge or purpose to a game, then it is just a matter of time until it will be forced to close down.

[GalacticKegger]

The sollution to all this is simple, because it was already in there prior to 3.0. Damphen the leveling exerience to pre 3.0. If people want to level fast, they already have the levelbooster. Do reshape the missions the way they were. By that people are forced to learn their class and behave proplery for it. At the moment it is a real mess. people in here are absolutely right. It's not only that newbys have no clue, they don't get the chance to learn what the class and specc is actually doing.

 

Why did BW changed all this in the first place anyway? It's like reinventing the wheel by cutting off the circle and replacing it with a hooverboard. And after that they are suprised people don't know how to change tires anylonger.

Level sync. Which is just like tacticals. Which is just like specless companions. Bioware wants SWTOR to be one size fits all for all character & skill levels.

I've seen the future, you know what it is? It's made by a 47 year-old virgin in gray pajamas soaking in a bubble bath, drinking a broccoli milkshake and thinking "I'm an Oscar-Meyer Wiener". You wanna live on top, you gotta live their way. What they want, when they want, how they want. Your other option: come down here, maybe starve to death.

 

At this rate the next "MMO" expansion may well feature Legacy tactical operations unlocks so characters as low as level 10 with advanced class training can queue for Ops.

 

Khumbaya.

Edited December 21, 2015 by GalacticKegger

[Falensawino]

Just had the weirdest flashpoint run in a long time. Cademimu. Tactical. one Marauder level 37, a Sorcerer level 37 and a Mercenary level 24, all three specced dd, and me in my 65 assassin tank.

 

this is what happens if you force the players to rush lowlevel content. they dont have the time to get PROPER gear or understand the stats they need, the style of their class and so on

But, in the end, after about an hour of failing, we managed to get through

I disagree.

 

This problem you mention is because of the removal of lowbie fixed flashpoints that require 1 healer, 1 tank, 2 dps. My guess is because of levelsync Bioware didn't want to rebalance regular lowbie flashpoints and just turned everything into tactical flashpoints. You're complaint should have been about the removal of regular flashpoints, those were used for lowbies to gear up.

 

I've leveled two characters to 65 on just weekly heroics and tactical flashpoints, completely skipping story and I only bothered to spend Basic Commendations (common data crystals) at level 65 for rating 208 outlander purple gear.

 

Your complaint could also be about the hoarding of commendations for end game 65 gear. Players are not gearing up the way Bioware intended via Planetary vendors. The story mission rewards don't drop any gear worthwhile and players only accept the 1 or 2 to 12 common data crystal rewards from story missions but never spend them until 65.

Edited December 21, 2015 by Falensawino

[GalacticKegger]

i disagree. This problem you mention is because of the removal of lowbie fixed flashpoints that require 1 healer, 1 tank, 2 dps. My guess is because of levelsync bioware didn't want to rebalance regular lowbie flashpoints and just turned everything into tactical flashpoints.

 

You're complaint should have been about the removal of regular flashpoints, those were used for lowbies to gear up.

Thank you! Lowbies get no love in this new deal. Players of high level characters avoid them, and the tactical system turns them into flashpaper when they group up themselves and simply walk in ... which has nothing to do with anything except that the system is a piece of ****. They bring the level appropriate flashpoints and HMs back and the problem fixes itself. +10 ftw. Edited December 22, 2015 by GalacticKegger

[ZETA_SCORPII]

Just had the weirdest flashpoint run in a long time. Cademimu. Tactical. one Marauder level 37, a Sorcerer level 37 and a Mercenary level 24, all three specced dd, and me in my 65 assassin tank.

Basically, their gear was abysimal. the level 37ens had everything, from 52 to 98 rating, some parts (gloves) missing.

the Mercenary tried healing and was, despite his gear, of the most use: he had no helmet, rating 18 legs and a level 8 mainhand and no offhand

Also, the Sorc thought he was meele, going in close to the boss and rarely using his ranged abilities

And im not even starting on the stats in those items, everything was mixed there

needless to say, we failed. a lot.

this is what happens if you force the players to rush lowlevel content. they dont have the time to get PROPER gear or understand the stats they need, the style of their class and so on

But, in the end, after about an hour of failing, we managed to get through

 

I'd just give them some pointers and move on. If you're 65 you should be able to solo most of the FP's anyway. Queue times are less now and tactical FP's aren't the big deal, it's not like you were in an Operation. Also, why are you in queue without friends? Make friends and this won't happen.

Edited December 21, 2015 by ZETA_SCORPII

[Spor]

Let's not forget massive over-leveling on all planets. Without quests graying out you end up at like level 30 before you leave Planet 3 (Taris/Balmorra), where you are supposed to leave at like level 20. The toon I am running up now is level 40 and isn't finished with Nar Shaddaa. I am only doing purple quests and H2s (which I am soloing). I'm on track to be level 65 long before the end of Chapter 2 - and I suspect even before I land on Hoth.

 

Don't get me wrong, I'm still having fun with it, and I hate to be "that guy" but this new leveling system is out of control and the H2s are so easy that they may as well drop the 2 from the name.

 

I was 35 from fleet stuff and starter planet before even heading to Corescant recently...so you know, a little overl eveled.

[The-Kaitou-Kid]

this is what happens if you force the players to rush lowlevel content. they dont have the time to get PROPER gear or understand the stats they need, the style of their class and so on

 

Just curious, how do they "not have time to get proper gear"? If anything they're more able than ever before to get upgraded gear, especially since companions don't need geared up anymore. The class missions also give out gear that they could be using and, in the most extreme case I see here, there's no way to blame "streamlined leveling" for the Merc in this flashpoint not having an offhand. You get a moddable offhand blaster automatically upon choosing Merc as your advanced class so they didn't need time to get that. It was given to them automatically.

 

The problem here isn't players leveling too fast, it's players not knowing what they're doing. This isn't new, this was around even before 12x. I know this because I remember back before 12x was a thing I saw a level 55 Sentinel on the fleet dressed in a mix of Strength/Cunning gear with a single lightsaber equipped. It happens. If it bothers you, tell them what they're doing wrong so they can fix it.

[AlrikFassbauer]

My guess is because of levelsync Bioware didn't want to rebalance regular lowbie flashpoints and just turned everything into tactical flashpoints.

 

This very much reminds me of the usual "Lowbies don't matter" blurb from end game players, no matter whether PvP or PvE.

[Cakellene]

Only if they were subscribers at launch of GSF.

 

False, I wasn't a subscriber when it launched and I still get mails on all toons with the gear.

[PorsaLindahl]

Just had the weirdest flashpoint run in a long time. Cademimu. Tactical. one Marauder level 37, a Sorcerer level 37 and a Mercenary level 24, all three specced dd, and me in my 65 assassin tank.

Basically, their gear was abysimal. the level 37ens had everything, from 52 to 98 rating, some parts (gloves) missing.

the Mercenary tried healing and was, despite his gear, of the most use: he had no helmet, rating 18 legs and a level 8 mainhand and no offhand

Also, the Sorc thought he was meele, going in close to the boss and rarely using his ranged abilities

And im not even starting on the stats in those items, everything was mixed there

needless to say, we failed. a lot.

this is what happens if you force the players to rush lowlevel content. they dont have the time to get PROPER gear or understand the stats they need, the style of their class and so on

But, in the end, after about an hour of failing, we managed to get through

 

This is why, as I stated in several posts so far, I refuse to join a LFG with anything less than 55's. Lowbies pop up in the queue window, /ignore, re-queue.