QQfest on Sentinels - Truth or L2P?

[theblackajah]

So, I've read almost every thread (and every page) out there created on the whole warrior class/Sentinel QQ, as well as all the rebuttals. Here are the most common thoughts I could pull from them:

 

- Sentinels are weak at low levels, but gets better beyond 40

- Warrior class starts out strong, then gets **** beyond (pick one) level 20/40/at endgame

- JKs with the best gear can barely do Ilum

- JKs manage Ilum just fine

- Sentinels do no damage in PvP

- Sentinels tear through everyone like butter in PvP

 

As you can see, the opinions largely contradict one another. I myself have found contradictions with my own experience, as I have not had any problems with my Sent thus far, albeit I haven't gotten too far as of yet.

 

The thing is, we have so many people QQing and providing anecdotal evidence of how horrid their experience is, and then others who have a completely opposite experience for the better.

 

Given how much contradiction there is, I think this needs to be said...

 

L2P? Or prove me wrong

 

(Maybe I'll eat my own words in a few days )

 

*****UPDATE 1: 12/30/2011*****

I'm now on Alderaan, and I've also spent a few hours PvPing and gaining exposure to the other classes. I've also read the replies in this and other threads, and I have modified my stance a bit:

- Both sides, to a certain extent, are correct

- For a good chunk of folks, it certainly is a L2P issue. The Sentinel is more than playable, and can manage PvE solo. HOWEVER, it does take skill, and the feel of the class changes starting Tatooine. Essentially, the Sentinel can take 1 elite max, and tends to end with 20% or so health. Large pulls, or accidental pulls, or screw-ups in your rotation will lead to death.

- The Sentinel is indeed "underpowered". Not in the sense that the class in unplayable, but in the sense that the Sentinel is left in the dust by every other class, even in the hands of a good player.

- Lastly, Bioware does need to buff this class if we're going to be at all competitive in an endgame environment. We are the only class with a single role, besides Gunslinger: DPS. If we cannot pump out DPS that makes us shine compared to other classes, or at least be on par with them, then what would be our role in a raid? None.

 

TL;DR

Baddies will be bad?

Edited December 31, 2011 by theblackajah

[Vobnash]

Definintely a L2P issue.

 

The only way it would be a class issue is if there was a unanimous attitude that suggested the class was broken. However, there are numerous people boasting success (myself included) with the class, with some people having even written up guides on how to be a better Sentinel player.

Edited December 27, 2011 by Vobnash

[taroswarosky]

imho its the sum of two factors:

 

1) some people just suck in mmo

2) jk is slightly lower other classes

 

 

im so happy with my sent swung again dat sword!

[Bootmgsh]

My impression is that it is a bit of both.

 

They do seem to be the Marmite class.

[Obsx]

Definintely a L2P issue.

 

The only way it would be a class issue is if there was a unanimous attitude that suggested the class was broken. However, there are numerous people boasting success (myself included) with the class, with some people having even written up guides on how to be a better Sentinel player.

 

Its not a L2P issue. However, the class itself isn't complete garbage. It can only be considered garbage when you compare it to all of the other classes. As of this moment sentinels/marauder are the worst class in the game.

 

I am a level 50 sentinel with 4/5 pieces of the T2 PVP armor. Even though I have pretty good gear I am still getting out dpsed by tanks and healers. At the end of a warzone I will have about 100-125k damage while the other can have upwards of 250k damage.

 

I must admit though that Sentinels are prob the best 1v1 class. I rarely lose 1v1 and I always beat healers 1v1. Sometimes I am even able to handle 2v1. Now some of you guys might think that "WOW 2v1, HOW IS THAT CLASS GARBAGE!?" well ill tell you. The only way I can win 2v1 is if i pop all of my cooldowns. I need to use 4 Cooldowns that are 45 seconds or longer in order to be able to become good. Which entails the problem with the class. You also have to consider in these 2v1 situations im most likely not facing 2 level 50 opponents.

 

SENTINELS NEED THEIR COOLDOWNSs in order to be efficient while other classes can blast you away without using theirs. At the moment without those cooldowns sentinels are just too damn squishy.

 

Now, I wouldn't have a problem with being too squishy if not for the fact that I am constantly being out damaged by hybrid classes.

 

Another problem I noticed is that every other classes 360 aoe damage has some sort of CC with it. The sentinels force sweep does in fact stun mobs, however it does not stun players which makes it absolute trash. Other classes AOE knocks players back. OH! but wait not only does it knock you back but it also slows you and for others roots you in place. While sentinels does nothing but deal damage....

 

Either way the Sentinel/Marauder class needs some sort of buff.

Edited December 27, 2011 by Obsx

[Jotan]

Its not a L2P issue. However, the class itself isn't complete garbage. It can only be considered garbage when you compare it to all of the other classes. As of this moment sentinels/marauder are the worst class in the game.

 

I am a level 50 sentinel with 4/5 pieces of the T2 PVP armor. Even though I have pretty good gear I am still getting out dpsed by tanks and healers. At the end of a warzone I will have about 100-125k damage while the other can have upwards of 250k damage.

 

I must admit though that Sentinels are prob the best 1v1 class. I rarely lose 1v1 and I always beat healers 1v1. Sometimes I am even able to handle 2v1. Now some of you guys might think that "WOW 2v1, HOW IS THAT CLASS GARBAGE!?" well ill tell you. The only way I can win 2v1 is if i pop all of my cooldowns. I need to use 4 Cooldowns that are 45 seconds or longer in order to be able to become good. Which entails the problem with the class. You also have to consider in these 2v1 situations im most likely not facing 2 level 50 opponents.

 

SENTINELS NEED THEIR COOLDOWNSs in order to be efficient while other classes can blast you away without using theirs. At the moment without those cooldowns sentinels are just too damn squishy.

 

Now, I wouldn't have a problem with being too squishy if not for the fact that I am constantly being out damaged by hybrid classes.

 

Another problem I noticed is that every other classes 360 aoe damage has some sort of CC with it. The sentinels force sweep does in fact stun mobs, however it does not stun players which makes it absolute trash. Other classes AOE knocks players back. OH! but wait not only does it knock you back but it also slows you and for others roots you in place. While sentinels does nothing but deal damage....

 

Either way the Sentinel/Marauder class needs some sort of buff.

 

 

Hear hear

[darthtoph]

Nah. What tree did you put your points into?

 

I'll tell you this, I went down the Focus tree (supposed PvP) but was having a hard time during WZ, dunno if I went for the wrong stats etc. I choose Crit as my secondary stat as according to the tooltop STR is supposed to boost all melee and force damage. Yet Power as a secondary stat seemed to boost my damage way more than crit and surge and so on, which made me go huh?

 

I had to work hard in WZ to deal out 150k damage as a lvl 40 Focus sentinel.

 

I'm currently lvl 42 and while I'm still one point away from Merciless Slash, I can now deal out +200k damage with ease and tend to be a top damage dealer during WZ. The number will go up and down, mind you, depending on your opponent and if they're premade, target you etc, but the point is I'm having way more fun as Watchman. At least my STR + Crit build is finally starting to shine due to all those burns (who also heal you).

 

When I went down the Focus path my build was just wrong (or it seemed so) as Power seemed to be a better secondary stat than crit.

 

Point being, the game is brand new, there is plenty to learn, but I'm sure you'll figure it out. But sentinels are NOT broken. Just harder to master/figure out than other classes. Or that's what I'm being told. Yet, it's all pretty noob friendly compared to hardcore MMOs so there really isn't a reason to QQ at all.

 

Give it some time!

[Obsx]

I am watchman as well. I'm also not saying Sentinels are bad by themselves. They are just bad compared to the other classes. Edited December 27, 2011 by Obsx

[Echuu]

sentinels don't do the ammount of damage they should really do, and their armour is basically made of paper meanwhile everyone is armed with a flame thrower

 

 

 

they can be 'on pair' with any class - for 9 seconds - because that's how long the 50% defense buff can be activated, after it ends you get hit for 1/4 of your hp

 

 

same thing goes for the marauder, it's weird that both the sentinel and the marauder can easily build up focus/rage and use a lot of specials meanwhile being outdamaged by the guardian/juggernaut that uses less specials

 

I hope that bioware has plans to give us the ability to change the specialization, I was pushing myself further and further hoping that 'it's going to be better later on' and nope, it wasn't

[Tamas]

Get to lvl 50 with 2 characters one being Sentinel/Marauder. Compare, laugh at Sentinel, play with the other character.

[Riven]

It's both tbh.

 

I certainly don't have the complete overview yet (lvl35), but Sent is pretty strong if you can efficiently use 24+ keybinds in a very situationally addaptive way. You've got tons of different tools to inflict or avoid damage, which makes it difficult because you actually will have to use all of those skills the higher you level it seems (solo at least).

 

Compared to the experience I've had with the other classes this is MUCH more difficult and that is where the problem lies. Sents will be a problem for quite a large portion of the player base because of how important it is to know what you are doing. Other classes are much more forgiving.

 

So yes, I can very much understnd why people are complaining and I expect there to be a lot more complaining.

But also yes, you can L2P Sents it just takes more time....I still suck but I can see that there is still a lot of room for improvement in my gameplay.

[darthtoph]

I am watchman as well. I'm also not saying Sentinels are bad by themselves. They are just bad compared to the other classes.

 

I'm surprised you "will have about 100-125k damage while the other can have upwards of 250k damage" as a lvl 50 sentinel when I deal out much more. I don't even got Merciless Slash yet (lacking a point). You even have 4/5 pieces of the T2 PvP gear, I'm just happy I could finally buy the lvl 40 PvP gear.

 

Lvl 24 Focus PvP (yet I could never deal more than 150k with Focus, even when I was lvl 39):

http://img835.imageshack.us/img835/2003/screenshot2011122009502.jpg

 

Lvl 40 Watchman PvP (tough fight):

http://img843.imageshack.us/img843/4982/screenshot2011122615261.jpg

 

Lvl 41 Watchman PvP (easy fight, Osiris is sentinel lvl 50):

http://img141.imageshack.us/img141/4230/screenshot2011122705364.jpg

Edited December 27, 2011 by darthtoph

[Obsx]

It may be because there are barely any lvl 50s on republic side while there are a good amount on the other. I get queued against a lot more average higher levels compared to my own team.

[crazyhairboy]

+1 to the OP for summing everything up in this post.

 

too bad your still going to get more "light" & "dark" side opinions.

 

It must be a comparison issue... I too have had no problems w/ my sent - now 29th lvl watchman; I havn't played any other class but it seems many of the opinioins that sents suck is based on that. So if we are Under powered compared to other classes - idk - if a buff comes then great.. we'll be OP- then turn into the FOTM!

 

I tear up PVP WZ - esp w/ a healer; 2nd to none - yes cooldowns are a necessity but pop them right and at the right time. you are unstoppable!

 

I've had no problems leveling in PVE; I use T7 droid. Woulda rather used Kira for story but T7 tanks like a champ (upgrade him and you'll have no probs) even if he dies; I pop my defensive cooldowns and finish any fight;

 

Flashpoints thus far - even w/o a dps meter I can tell I out dps the other classes based on the fact that on the few times the tank goes down.. I grab aggro - pop my defensive cooldowns and finish the fight.

 

Granted my opinion thus far is not end-game. Hopefully, things will not change in the next 21 levels.

[McDaniels]

The class is slightly weak overall, but the bigger problem is that its comparatively quite hard to play.

 

Half of the problem is that this class requires a lot of situational awareness, good keybinds and keybind memorization, and a good rotation to not only be played well, but to be played decently, and thats a lot to ask for a lot of players.

 

The second problem is that even after you have all of that, the class is still relatively weak. We are somewhat easy to kite by ranged depending on whether our cds are down, operatives can essentially one shot us, but they can do that to most classes... We must be in the heat of the fight, yet we aren't equipped to take much damage...

 

Some sentinels, better players, do well and because of that they say L2P, im guilty of it, but even the best sentinels don't compete with the best gunslingers/snipers, scoundrels/operatives, shadow/assassin, sorc/sage, etc.

 

Also this class is lolzy in PvE... leveling it is a nightmare for just about any player. It has solid raid utility though.

[shoveljon]

I think the problem might be clicking, honestly.

 

We have just a frickin ton of buttons, and we have to use most of them. If people are mousing about and clicking to try to get that interrupt, oh back to rebuke, oops cauterize is off CD get that dot up swing back over to activate zen. Etc. It's just too much and the Valdis and Angral type fights where you HAVE to interrupt quickly just don't reward people who have to look for/mouse to/click their interrupt. I won't address pvp as I haven't touched it yet but I think clicking in PVP is generally regarded as suicide anyway.

 

I think that people who aren't hunting around for all their skills are probably the ones having more success with the JK. I'm having a blast and I enjoy the difficulty, but I also know that I have about 24 skills I can activate without having to mouse to them and click. People who click because they don't know better or because it's their preferred playstyle are at a disadvantage and this class is somewhat unforgiving of disadvantages.

[StyxzieWaterz]

I think the problem might be clicking, honestly.

 

We have just a frickin ton of buttons, and we have to use most of them. If people are mousing about and clicking to try to get that interrupt, oh back to rebuke, oops cauterize is off CD get that dot up swing back over to activate zen. Etc. It's just too much and the Valdis and Angral type fights where you HAVE to interrupt quickly just don't reward people who have to look for/mouse to/click their interrupt. I won't address pvp as I haven't touched it yet but I think clicking in PVP is generally regarded as suicide anyway.

 

I think that people who aren't hunting around for all their skills are probably the ones having more success with the JK. I'm having a blast and I enjoy the difficulty, but I also know that I have about 24 skills I can activate without having to mouse to them and click. People who click because they don't know better or because it's their preferred playstyle are at a disadvantage and this class is somewhat unforgiving of disadvantages.

 

This is the only logical conclusion at this point, beyond the fact that people don't want to admit they may be bad at the game/genre/class.

 

Look in that "Valdis is unbeatable @24" thread. One guy mentions interrupts and its the best freaking idea ever.

 

We've also got a lot of players that like to compare the class to ranged classes. Melee always gets a raw deal compared to ranged in these games (or any game really). Think about it, you're in the thick of the fight at all times. That ranged guy can 0-100% mobs before they get in melee range. Which sounds "easier?"

 

I'll say there are things I'd like to see changed with the class/game, but nothing so bad as what half these forums would have you believe.

 

And you know what? Every class forum has QQ about how up they are and how x class is better because they have y cool move that I dont. I've even seen threads in other class forums about how op Sent/Maras are and we need nerfs and people can't believe BW made our class so strong.

 

It's all one big contradiction. Sents are fine. L2P, and ask for help with L2P and you'll get it. Dont come here crying about mobs hitting hard when you're standing in bad and don't have kick on your bars.

[Zedakah]

I think the problem might be clicking, honestly.

 

We have just a frickin ton of buttons, and we have to use most of them. If people are mousing about and clicking to try to get that interrupt, oh back to rebuke, oops cauterize is off CD get that dot up swing back over to activate zen. Etc. It's just too much and the Valdis and Angral type fights where you HAVE to interrupt quickly just don't reward people who have to look for/mouse to/click their interrupt. I won't address pvp as I haven't touched it yet but I think clicking in PVP is generally regarded as suicide anyway.

 

I think that people who aren't hunting around for all their skills are probably the ones having more success with the JK. I'm having a blast and I enjoy the difficulty, but I also know that I have about 24 skills I can activate without having to mouse to them and click. People who click because they don't know better or because it's their preferred playstyle are at a disadvantage and this class is somewhat unforgiving of disadvantages.

 

 

 

My main is a gunslinger and I think I have more buttons as a gunslinger than sentinel. I'm not sure, because I'm a much higher level on the gunslinger, but I do know all 5 action bars (including cover) are completely full and I still have about 5 more new moves to train. The difference is as a gunslinger I'm in a nice cover most of the time and can focus on mousing buttons as well as hitting keys, instead of jumping around trying to stay within the hitbox.

 

That said, you do have a point that the number of moves can be overwhelming; however my gunslinger is a joke to level compared to my sentinel. I'm NOT saying that it is impossible or even hard to level or be successful as a sentinel. I am just saying that I can take on 2 mob groups, several silvers OR a couple elites on my gunslinger and come out just fine; whereas that is near impossible on a sentinel without the use of medpacks or healing companion.

 

With the cover mechanic, even when elite enemies focus on my gunslinger, I take MUCH less damage than my sentinel except during sentinel cooldowns. The difference is cover is passive and permanent unless the mob/player can knock me out. I rarely think about using defensive cooldowns or medpacks as a gunslinger unless I'm fighting elites 2-3 levels higher than me. I'm not saying this so people will say "nerf gunslingers!" because I think they are in a good position in pve and pvp (We get ***** by any class that can force choke us out of cover and a good stealther or tank can be a nightmare).

 

I just think the sentinel needs either a new defensive mechanic OR increased defenses to withstand a bit more punishment. I would love saber throw or force push be added back into the mix, but just a few passive defense moves or talents seem to be needed. I would love to see something like 10% chance to reflect blaster fire back at targets or something that really would fit in with the lore of the class. Being able to wield two sabers means increased awareness of your surroundings, possibly meaning we should have better ranged defense.

 

As of now on my gunslinger, if all enemies have full health, my first target is the one holding two sabers.

 

P.S. I am loving this class and the story. I get a nice epic feeling to playing this class that I don't on a smuggler. I don't want to come off as being against this class, because I am enjoying playing it. I just want this class to be where it should be COMPARED to other classes.

Edited December 27, 2011 by Zedakah

[shadowflit]

Certainly the clicking thing is an issue. I only ever have the opportunity to click on abilities in PvE where everything politely stands still while I kill it. I think I had a "rebind my keys party" twice while I leveled, and now I'm finally pretty happy. I have five spare buttons on my mouse, and I dedicated those to most of my defensive cooldowns and zen/transcendence.

 

As of now on my gunslinger, if all enemies have full health, my first target is the one holding two sabers.

Speaking of, my first targets as a Sentinel after healers are those annoying imperial agents

 

A couple times I've come up short attacking a sniper type, though I didn't realize force choke breaks cover... that's excellent news! Mostly though, any target I have my mind set on will die, provided I don't get primaried by tons of people and/or a healer comes into the mix (in which case I can try and interrupt them a few times and burst my previous target down, or just switch to the healer). Guarded by the Force really helps with getting swarmed too, it buys those few extra seconds to kill your target before you go down (or better yet, camo out of the area).

 

Though I will admit I have noticed some of the tendency to primary "two lightsabers" and I try to keep my blades sheathed until I'm actually fighting, heh.

 

Oh, and since I picked up such a nice tip from you, here's the two things I've noticed fighting agents.

1) Your friends are a liability if they are near you, because I'll use them as a jump point when you're in cover. Mostly noticeable when there's an elevation change between you and me.

2) I'm pretty sure Zealous Leap doesn't care about cover. It's only 10m range, sure, but I've used it to jump between levels in Huttball many a time when Force Leap was still on cooldown (after getting knocked off yet again hehe). Can typically counter this by staying further back from the edge.

[shoveljon]

Zed,

 

Haven't played a gunslinger to the level you have so I'll defer to you on this one - you say you have five bars filled, and yes, every class has a lot of buttons - my question to you is in a given fight against a normal pack of trash mobs, how many of them do you use? How many do you NEED?

 

My point being the sent not only has a bajillion buttons, to survive a given fight they have to make use of the vast majority of them.

 

Styx,

 

Yeah I noticed that in the Valdis thread as well. I guess it's a paradigm shift for a lot of players where they have to not only concentrate on what they're doing but also be worried about the opponent. I think maybe enough people didn't grow up on Street Fighter.

[ChaosMatrix]

Well I got to lvl 29, currently in alderan, fighting lvl 28 enemies. Getting my *** totally killed whenever my defense buffs run out. Im using Orange gear with mods and rares as armor and on my sabers. But sometimes Im fighting 3 or 4 at a time and I get steamed after killing half of them. Im just neither lasting long enough nor doing enough damage.

 

In pvp the only way I can kill people is by doing hit and runs, if I stay anywhere too long, Im killed quite quickly, played a match again today against a bounty hunter, he had 58 kills and only 3 deaths. He was taking on groups of republic players and tearing through them like tissue paper. Whenever he attacked me, I was dead in about 5 seconds or less due to some kind of fire dot attack (which apparently was an instant cast and not the flame thrower one since he did not had the skill build up bar at anytime.)

 

And for those who mentioned T7, if you need a companion to tank for you to be useful, then something is wrong with you, You are supposed to be good enough on your own and companions are just an added fun feature.

[Omedarcus]

All I know is I'm at 30 and I still die all the time. I'm speced as watchman, should I change for pve? Has anyone posted builds and stuff yet?

[Unpleasant]

Basically, if you're a good player then you'll be about average most of the time. The class is just plain more difficult than the others (I've played sage, commando, and sentinel), and even if you get everything down, when those cooldowns aren't up, you're toast. We're ridiculously reliant on our cooldowns, which range from 45 seconds to 3 minutes in length. Whether or not you win depends on how many of those are up. You've really got to put in some work, but the playstyle is great and I'm sure with a few tweaks the class will be great to play. I enjoy it now, even if we are a little bit underpowered.

 

Source: Level 40 sentinel.

[shoveljon]

Alderaan was kind of a nightmare. Just press through it. That level range seems especially bad for the JK, plus there seem to be a lot of bad pulls on Alderaan.

 

Which is a shame because it's gorgeous.

[Karva]

Its not a L2P issue.

 

I am a level 50 sentinel with 4/5 pieces of the T2 PVP armor. Even though I have pretty good gear I am still getting out dpsed by tanks and healers. At the end of a warzone I will have about 100-125k damage while the other can have upwards of 250k damage.

 

It's definately L2P, you say that you have 4/5 of T2 PVP armor. Well I don't have any pieces

of PVP armor and I'm always topping the DMG done by 200-300k aswell the kills and sometimes even the healing done.