Aeristash Posted December 19, 2015 Share Posted December 19, 2015 I just watched a kid with less training than a padawan, go toe to toe and win against a fully trained Dark jedi... Finn has never handled a lightsaber in his life and suddenly he's fighting like a master against a master? You'd think one of these super jedi is bad enough, but as it turns out... It seems that untrained force sensitives being able to wipe the floor with their decades experienced seniors is quite the trend now. it's like watching a level one newbie manhandle lvl 65 platinum bosses as if that was most natural thing. Oh no, this is where I draw the line. There is ridiculous and then there's just plain RETARDED. Let them keep whatever they got going on there in their movieverse and keep that refuse out of this game please. I was really worried about the legend canon becoming obsolete, but you know what? After seeing what's passing for the new canon, I'm real good with the legend. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rhyltran Posted December 19, 2015 Share Posted December 19, 2015 (edited) I just watched a kid with less training than a padawan, go toe to toe and win against a fully trained Dark jedi... Finn has never handled a lightsaber in his life and suddenly he's fighting like a master against a master? You'd think one of these super jedi is bad enough, but as it turns out... It seems that untrained force sensitives being able to wipe the floor with their decades experienced seniors is quite the trend now. it's like watching a level one newbie manhandle lvl 65 platinum bosses as if that was most natural thing. Oh no, this is where I draw the line. There is ridiculous and then there's just plain RETARDED. Let them keep whatever they got going on there in their movieverse and keep that refuse out of this game please. I was really worried about the legend canon becoming obsolete, but you know what? After seeing what's passing for the new canon, I'm real good with the legend. Kylo Ren is no master. He created a shoddy lightsaber with exposed wires and never finished luke's training before he killed the other students. He's pretty raw himself. His lightsabers blade is fluctuating wildly and requires exhaust ports to even function. In Legends Luke, after 3 years of training, was able to take on Vader who was more powerful than he was than Anakin. In a few years after that he was capable of defeating Vader. Vader has over 40 years on Luke. There are some problems with the new movies but this isn't one of them. Kylo Ren was a glorified inquisitor at most in terms of knowledge and expertise. Edited December 19, 2015 by Rhyltran Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cs_zoltan Posted December 19, 2015 Share Posted December 19, 2015 Couldn't agree more. Sadly this was but one major mistake of TFA of many... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rhyltran Posted December 19, 2015 Share Posted December 19, 2015 (edited) Couldn't agree more. Sadly this was but one major mistake of TFA of many... A master's lightsaber indeed.. http://assets2.ignimgs.com/2015/04/17/img0302ajpg-5c4de9_765w.jpg Edited December 19, 2015 by Rhyltran Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cs_zoltan Posted December 19, 2015 Share Posted December 19, 2015 Kylo Ren is no master. He created a shoddy lightsaber with exposed wires and never finished luke's training before he killed the other students. He's pretty raw himself. His lightsabers blade is fluctuating wildly and requires exhaust ports to even function. In Legends Luke, after 3 years of training, was able to take on Vader who was more powerful than he was than Anakin. In a few years after that he was capable of defeating Vader. Vader has over 40 years on Luke. There are some problems with the new movies but this isn't one of them. Kylo Ren was a glorified inquisitor at most in terms of knowledge and expertise. I ain't got no time for spoiler tags, when the title has spoiler warning in it Anyway, while what you said is true you still can't handwave it. Flinn was beaten earlier by a stormtrooper (Flinn is a rookie stormtrooper himself), which means an injured Kylo is around stormtrooper level, which is beyond pathetic.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rhyltran Posted December 19, 2015 Share Posted December 19, 2015 (edited) I ain't got no time for spoiler tags, when the title has spoiler warning in it Anyway, while what you said is true you still can't handwave it. Flinn was beaten earlier by a stormtrooper (Flinn is a rookie stormtrooper himself), which means an injured Kylo is around stormtrooper level, which is beyond pathetic.... Actually he was toying with Finn. As soon as Finn tags him? He disarms him in seconds. I'm still not convinced Kylo had any lightsaber training. I'd think if he did he'd be able to create a proper lightsaber. Edited December 19, 2015 by Rhyltran Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cs_zoltan Posted December 19, 2015 Share Posted December 19, 2015 Actually he was toying with Finn. As soon as Finn tags him? He disarms him in seconds. I'm still not convinced Kylo had any lightsaber training. I'd think if he did he'd be able to create a proper lightsaber. You know it's pathetic when *********** Aayla Secura would solo the whole main cast (beside Luke if he is considered main cast at all), but like I said, it's just one mistake of dozens. Calling it my biggest diappointemnt in entertainment media is an understatement. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rhyltran Posted December 19, 2015 Share Posted December 19, 2015 (edited) You know it's pathetic when *********** Aayla Secura would solo the whole main cast (beside Luke if he is considered main cast at all), but like I said, it's just one mistake of dozens. Calling it my biggest diappointemnt in entertainment media is an understatement. I agree there. Kind of hit home that as of now the Jedi and Sith are truly dead. I think a Dathomir witch could solo the cast. Lol I didn't see the Kylo fight as a Sith versus force sensitives. I saw it as three untrained force sensitives battling it out. Kind of like watching three hard core nerds who have never been in a fight in their lives duke it out in a free for all brawl. Of course.. while having powers. Edited December 19, 2015 by Rhyltran Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cs_zoltan Posted December 19, 2015 Share Posted December 19, 2015 I agree there. Kind of hit home that as of now the Jedi and Sith are truly dead. I think a Dathomir witch could solo the cast. Lol The worst thing is that TFA is quite literally a rehash of ANH... And when you think about how during marketing they were all high and mighty about how TFA is cool like the OT, and in the end it's worse than TPM.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rhyltran Posted December 19, 2015 Share Posted December 19, 2015 The worst thing is that TFA is quite literally a rehash of ANH... And when you think about how during marketing they were all high and mighty about how TFA is cool like the OT, and in the end it's worse than TPM.... I do disagree there. I mean, yes it's kind of a rehash of a new hope. I still think it's better than TPM and Attack of the Clones. I won't lie I actually enjoyed it but I wouldn't call it great either. I do think when the other movies come out they're set up to be potentially really good. I think this will be the weakest of the new trilogy. That's my prediction. To be honest I walked in expecting worse. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aeristash Posted December 19, 2015 Author Share Posted December 19, 2015 Kylo Ren is no master. He created a shoddy lightsaber with exposed wires and never finished luke's training before he killed the other students. He's pretty raw himself. His lightsabers blade is fluctuating wildly and requires exhaust ports to even function. In Legends Luke, after 3 years of training, was able to take on Vader who was more powerful than he was than Anakin. In a few years after that he was capable of defeating Vader. Vader has over 40 years on Luke. There are some problems with the new movies but this isn't one of them. Kylo Ren was a glorified inquisitor at most in terms of knowledge and expertise. I agree with you regarding his lightsaber skills but I'd hardly call him raw. He stopped a laser mid air with the force; that's something one would see a master like yoda or palpatine do. Also, while he didn't finish his training with luke, his training was almost complete with snoke. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cs_zoltan Posted December 19, 2015 Share Posted December 19, 2015 I do disagree there. I mean, yes it's kind of a rehash of a new hope. I still think it's better than TPM and Attack of the Clones. I won't lie I actually enjoyed it but I wouldn't call it great either. I do think when the other movies come out they're set up to be potentially really good. I think this will be the weakest of the new trilogy. That's my prediction. To be honest I walked in expecting worse. Well for me 100% of TFA was boring, 80% of TPM and AotC was boring. That's a win right there, but if you include that TFA wasn't even original... And to top it off during marketing they were wanking that how TFA is like the OT, which makes it superior to the PT and it was the worst SW so far imo. The only thing that saved TFA was the Han Solo jokes, without that I might've walked out. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jankiel Posted December 19, 2015 Share Posted December 19, 2015 Rey's force was awakened. They really should have included it in the title of the movie or something so that more people would understand it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aeristash Posted December 19, 2015 Author Share Posted December 19, 2015 (edited) Well for me 100% of TFA was boring, 80% of TPM and AotC was boring. That's a win right there, but if you include that TFA wasn't even original... And to top it off during marketing they were wanking that how TFA is like the OT, which makes it superior to the PT and it was the worst SW so far imo. The only thing that saved TFA was the Han Solo jokes, without that I might've walked out. Oh Han... I don't even want to play my smuggler for awhile after watching one of the greatest characters in star wars history get killed off so ignobly. He deserved a far better send off than that. Edited December 19, 2015 by Aeristash Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cs_zoltan Posted December 19, 2015 Share Posted December 19, 2015 Oh Han... I don't even want to play my smuggler for awhile after watching one of the greatest characters in star wars history get killed off so ignobly. He deserved a far better send off than that. Speaking from personal experience, no one gona open this thread until they saw TFA so you could drop the tags Anyhow, about Han. Idk how I feel about it all, I mean yeah it was sad that he died, but at least I felt something during the movie beside disgust and boredome. Not to mention it was sooo predictable. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DarthDymond Posted December 19, 2015 Share Posted December 19, 2015 (edited) If Finn or Rey had actually started doing some Duel of Fates or Anakin vs Obi-Wan level feats with the lightsaber, then I'd be right there with you, but I really liked that they radically toned down how complex and elaborate the lightsaber fight was, specifically because the heroes were both novices and Kylo Ren was seriously injured going into the fight. It was still a really engaging fight to watch, but the action itself was raw and brutal, not all finesse and technique. It didn't feel like either hero suddenly became a lightsaber pro, it felt like they were each someone who had some melee weapon training who was then doing the best they could with the weapon they had. And then Rey, who was well established as being strong in the Force, was able to tap into that to gain the upper hand (and while she did rally at the end, even then she didn't start doing any crazy skilled moves). As for why Kylo Ren wasn't able to handily defeat them: they repeatedly emphasized throughout the whole movie just how powerful Chewie's bowcaster was, and then he tagged Kylo with a shot from it just before the duel. That's why they showed the blood dripping on the ground before the duel started - to emphasize that this guy was hurt. (He was probably still in a lot of internal turmoil too after what he had just done, but even without reading that element into it, it still played fine for me.) You had a half-trained but severely wounded combatant going up against two novices back-to-back with no chance to recover in between, and he beat one and only fell to the other when she tapped into her Force potential. Nothing in the actual moves of the fight made it seem like anyone was suddenly a master duelist. Edited December 19, 2015 by DarthDymond Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LordHartigan Posted December 19, 2015 Share Posted December 19, 2015 (edited) I just watched a kid with less training than a padawan, go toe to toe and win against a fully trained Dark jedi... Finn has never handled a lightsaber in his life and suddenly he's fighting like a master against a master? You'd think one of these super jedi is bad enough, but as it turns out... It seems that untrained force sensitives being able to wipe the floor with their decades experienced seniors is quite the trend now. it's like watching a level one newbie manhandle lvl 65 platinum bosses as if that was most natural thing. Oh no, this is where I draw the line. There is ridiculous and then there's just plain RETARDED. Let them keep whatever they got going on there in their movieverse and keep that refuse out of this game please. I was really worried about the legend canon becoming obsolete, but you know what? After seeing what's passing for the new canon, I'm real good with the legend. Just echoing what others here have said, but yeah must have watched a different movie than everyone else. There was nothing in TFA that suggests Ren was a 'fully trained dark jedi'. In fact it's made pretty freakin' clear that he's not throughout the movie. His outbursts, Rey learning he's scared of something, his lack of prominence in the new order, he clearly isn't in charge. He's a very blunt instrument with an obsession with his grandfather that Snoak is taking advantage of. Oh and let's not forgot the biggest give away. Snoak Says 'bring Kylo Ren to me so I may finish is training. FINISH HIS TRAINING!! AS IN NOT 'FULLY TRAINED". Buy another ticket. Watch it again. Edited December 19, 2015 by LordHartigan Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cs_zoltan Posted December 19, 2015 Share Posted December 19, 2015 (edited) Just echoing what others here have said, but yeah must have watched a different movie than everyone else. There was nothing in TFA that suggests Ren was a 'fully trained dark jedi'. In fact it's made pretty freakin' clear that he's not throughout the movie. His outbursts, Rey learning he's scared of something, his lack of prominence in the new order, he clearly isn't in charge. He's a very blunt instrument with an obsession with his grandfather that Snoak is taking advantage of. Oh and let's not forgot the biggest give away. Snoak Says 'bring Kylo Ren to me so I may finish is training. FINISH HIS TRAINING!! AS IN NOT 'FULLY TRAINED". Buy another ticket. Watch it again. So? He was still beaten by a *********** scavenger... You know who in Star Wars are getting beatend by scavengers? Fodder. The main villain of the movie is a fodder. PS: No way I'm ever again gona pay for this disgrace. And this comes from someone who liked both the OT and PT. Edited December 19, 2015 by cs_zoltan Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aeristash Posted December 19, 2015 Author Share Posted December 19, 2015 Speaking from personal experience, no one gona open this thread until they saw TFA so you could drop the tags Anyhow, about Han. Idk how I feel about it all, I mean yeah it was sad that he died, but at least I felt something during the movie beside disgust and boredome. Not to mention it was sooo predictable. lol I thought that sassy smuggler would have an ace up his sleeve. If anybody was going to die, I thought it was going to be Luke with a pass the torch sorta thing. Surprised they've set him up for a bigger role. Then again, maybe that's just because I never liked luke skywalker. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ConVallian Posted December 19, 2015 Share Posted December 19, 2015 (edited) So? He was still beaten by a *********** scavenger... When you enter a fight after killing your father, then getting shot,then getting cut then turn to fight a force user with natural talent afterwards in the freezing cold, loosing to a savanger isnt nothing to scoff at Edited December 19, 2015 by ConVallian Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cs_zoltan Posted December 19, 2015 Share Posted December 19, 2015 (edited) When you enter a fight after killing your father, then getting shot,then getting cut then turn to fight a force user with natural talent afterwards in the freezing cold, loosing to a savanger isnt un-impressive If anything killing his father strengthened his resolve, that was the hole point of it. Before that he was struggling with the light side. Idk why people try to suggest the opposite. As for being injured? Granted, but he was still only on par with the Stormtrooper from earlier who kicked Finn's ***. The injured main villain being on par with a fodder is just...yeah... Edited December 19, 2015 by cs_zoltan Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aeristash Posted December 19, 2015 Author Share Posted December 19, 2015 If Finn or Rey had actually started doing some Duel of Fates or Anakin vs Obi-Wan level feats with the lightsaber, then I'd be right there with you, but I really liked that they radically toned down how complex and elaborate the lightsaber fight was, specifically because the heroes were both novices and Kylo Ren was seriously injured going into the fight. It was still a really engaging fight to watch, but the action itself was raw and brutal, not all finesse and technique. It didn't feel like either hero suddenly became a lightsaber pro, it felt like they were each someone who had some melee weapon training who was then doing the best they could with the weapon they had. And then Rey, who was well established as being strong in the Force, was able to tap into that to gain the upper hand (and while she did rally at the end, even then she didn't start doing any crazy skilled moves). As for why Kylo Ren wasn't able to handily defeat them: they repeatedly emphasized throughout the whole movie just how powerful Chewie's bowcaster was, and then he tagged Kylo with a shot from it just before the duel. That's why they showed the blood dripping on the ground before the duel started - to emphasize that this guy was hurt. (He was probably still in a lot of internal turmoil too after what he had just done, but even without reading that element into it, it still played fine for me.) You had a half-trained but severely wounded combatant going up against two novices back-to-back with no chance to recover in between, and he beat one and only fell to the other when she tapped into her Force potential. Nothing in the actual moves of the fight made it seem like anyone was suddenly a master duelist. You don't find anything odd about any of that? Not even the fact that finn can adequately wield a lightsaber despite only becoming aware of force sensitivity 10 min earlier? I'd argue the whole legend lore about lightsabers being weightless, requiring a certain level of adeptness with the force to sense the weight of the blade, as well as melee training proficiency. but this canon seems to run on a different set of rules it seems. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
myrdinn Posted December 19, 2015 Share Posted December 19, 2015 If anything killing his father strengthened his resolve, that was the hole point of it. Before that he was struggling with the light side. Idk why people try to suggest the opposite. As for being injured? Granted, but he was still only on par with the Stormtrooper from earlier who kicked Finn's ***. The injured main villain being on par with a fodder is just...yeah... To be fair, he was trying to talk his cousin into being his apprentice for most of that fight. That being said, Rey became just a touch too skilled right at the end. Would have been better if she pushed him back just enough for Chewie to come in with the Falcon's antipersonnel blasters. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
myrdinn Posted December 19, 2015 Share Posted December 19, 2015 You don't find anything odd about any of that? Not even the fact that finn can adequately wield a lightsaber despite only becoming aware of force sensitivity 10 min earlier? I'd argue the whole legend lore about lightsabers being weightless, requiring a certain level of adeptness with the force to sense the weight of the blade, as well as melee training proficiency. but this canon seems to run on a different set of rules it seems. I am not certain he is FS. I think he might just have been a sort of lucky (both bad and good). He was the pawn of the Force more than anything else: the piece that moves that allows other pieces to be moved. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aeristash Posted December 19, 2015 Author Share Posted December 19, 2015 Just echoing what others here have said, but yeah must have watched a different movie than everyone else. There was nothing in TFA that suggests Ren was a 'fully trained dark jedi'. In fact it's made pretty freakin' clear that he's not throughout the movie. His outbursts, Rey learning he's scared of something, his lack of prominence in the new order, he clearly isn't in charge. He's a very blunt instrument with an obsession with his grandfather that Snoak is taking advantage of. Oh and let's not forgot the biggest give away. Snoak Says 'bring Kylo Ren to me so I may finish is training. FINISH HIS TRAINING!! AS IN NOT 'FULLY TRAINED". Buy another ticket. Watch it again. With all due respect, personality nor rank hardly speak to skill. Some of those most skilled sith have been crazy and/or childish. Anyways, I think post #11 answers this. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts