Kylo Ren vs Luke Skywalker [Spoilers Included]

[WDreamer]

Kylo Ren vs Luke Skywalker

 

 

http://i.imgur.com/g330RFs.jpg

 

 

 

Location: Snowy Forests of the Starkiller Base

SOM: In Character, but with intent to kill

Equipment: Standard

Notes: Both at 100% health.

- Luke from at the end of Empire Strikes Back.

- Luke as he was just before fighting Darth Vader in Cloud City.

 

As per forum rules, please tag spoilers as spoilers!

 

BTW, I have indeed already seen the movie.

[Master-Nala]

Not enough information. We don't know for example:

 

 

Enough about Ben's training under Luke or Kylo's training under Snoke. My gut tells me that Ben Solo could beat crash course Luke. I think Luke at the end of ROTJ would wipe the floor with Ben.

 

[WDreamer]

Not enough information. We don't know for example:

 

 

Enough about Ben's training under Luke or Kylo's training under Snoke. My gut tells me that Ben Solo could beat crash course Luke. I think Luke at the end of ROTJ would wipe the floor with Ben.

 

Sure not knowing the specifics of Kylo's training is one thing, but he shows a fairly decent display of feats that are applicable to combat, and can be compared to ESB Luke's training and combat feats.

Edited December 17, 2015 by WDreamer

[Ghost_Spectre]

Actually, I believe Luke would overcome him.

 

 

Luke held his own against Vader until he started throwing objects at him like a dart board. Kylo showed no such ability to do so. Just your standard Jug type of abilities. Luke before ROTJ was a strong force user and adept lightsaber user. Kylo, while he showed promise, isn't at the same level of competence as Luke in my opinion.

 

Had Kylo been at Luke's level, I believe he'd killed Rey but she was far stronger in the force than her cousin (I believe Rey is Luke's daughter). When she did what that old alien woman said, close your eyes, feel the force, let it flow through you...very much the same thing Yoda said to Luke, she became centered and school Kylo in the art of lightsabre play and force use.

 

What happen there is the classic difference between a Sith and Jedi's training...Sith rely on emotions (passion, hatred) while Jedi center themselves in the force depending on it and not their emotions to fuel them.

 

[DarthBama]

A person with 0 Jedi training and at this point appears 0 force sensitivity holds him off longer than you think he should. Kylo and Snoke appear to be Sith Sorcs that aren't as skilled with the saber. I'd say Luke.

[SithKoriandr]

Kylo was also injured by the time he started fighting Rey and Finn. Though he may also not be a trained lightsaber user. The Jedi/Sith in Episode's 1-3 fought so much better than he did.

[WDreamer]

Actually, I believe Luke would overcome him.

 

 

Luke held his own against Vader until he started throwing objects at him like a dart board. Kylo showed no such ability to do so. Just your standard Jug type of abilities. Luke before ROTJ was a strong force user and adept lightsaber user. Kylo, while he showed promise, isn't at the same level of competence as Luke in my opinion.

 

Had Kylo been at Luke's level, I believe he'd killed Rey but she was far stronger in the force than her cousin (I believe Rey is Luke's daughter). When she did what that old alien woman said, close your eyes, feel the force, let it flow through you...very much the same thing Yoda said to Luke, she became centered and school Kylo in the art of lightsabre play and force use.

 

What happen there is the classic difference between a Sith and Jedi's training...Sith rely on emotions (passion, hatred) while Jedi center themselves in the force depending on it and not their emotions to fuel them.

 

Actually,

 

 

Kylo in his very first appearance has shown a VERY impressive TK feat.

 

He stop a blaster bolt in mid-air for at least few minutes, and then went over to talk to Poe, and then began ordering his troops again. Only after Kylo was ready to leave the planet, did the blaster bolt continue on flying. Very impressive showing of force multi-tasking.

 

All his other lightsaber duelling scenes was when he was bleeding out, and heavily injured. I wouldnt be surprised if his fight with Finn and Rey was less than half of what he was capable of.

 

[Ghost_Spectre]

Actually,

 

 

Kylo in his very first appearance has shown a VERY impressive TK feat.

 

He stop a blaster bolt in mid-air for at least few minutes, and then went over to talk to Poe, and then began ordering his troops again. Only after Kylo was ready to leave the planet, did the blaster bolt continue on flying. Very impressive showing of force multi-tasking.

 

All his other lightsaber duelling scenes was when he was bleeding out, and heavily injured. I wouldnt be surprised if his fight with Finn and Rey was less than half of what he was capable of.

 

While what you say has merit...

 

His use of the force to stop and hold that bolt is akin to the force choke. However, even hurt, he was more than a match for Finn. While he was fighting against Rey, she was able to hold her own because she is skilled in melee fighting. Her skill proved a match for Kylo. Even so, Kylo forced her back because of his strength and had her nearly defeated before he opened his mouth and said, "You need a teacher, let me teach about the force." What happened after that proved what allowing the force to flow through you can do even for a novice. Rey will be a powerful Jedi just like her dad.

 

[Beniboybling]

Kylo's skills with a lightsaber seem pretty lacking if he isn't able to dispatch the likes of Rey and certainly Finn with a flourish, so I think he would struggle with Luke's natural talent. That said he is clearly very powerful in the dark side, and in that respect I may be able to overwhelm with strength and Force powers.

[Master-Nala]

Kylo's skills with a lightsaber seem pretty lacking if he isn't able to dispatch the likes of Rey and certainly Finn with a flourish, so I think he would struggle with Luke's natural talent. That said he is clearly very powerful in the dark side, and in that respect I may be able to overwhelm with strength and Force powers.

 

Remember, that the OP has both combatants at 100% health. Where as in the part you mention:

 

 

Kylo was bleeding out from getting shot with a bowcaster. Fighting even a couple of novices can be tough if you're bleeding internally.

 

Edited December 18, 2015 by Master-Nala

[ZanyaCross]

Actually, I believe Luke would overcome him.

 

 

Luke held his own against Vader until he started throwing objects at him like a dart board.

 

The problem with that is that it was embarrassingly clear that...

Vader was just toying with and testing Luke. Vader didn't even start to get serious until Luke got a lucky shot in, and then it was over in a few seconds.

 

 

Also, we're putting spoiler tags on stuff from ESB?

[Master-Nala]

Also, we're putting spoiler tags on stuff from ESB?

 

I got a note from the mods telling me to put stuff that's NOT in the movie in spoiler tags. Such as:

 

 

Jaina and Jacen Solo, may George Lucas have mercy on their souls

 

Edited December 18, 2015 by Master-Nala

[SithKoriandr]

I got a note from the mods telling me to put stuff that's NOT in the movie in spoiler tags. Such as:

 

 

Jaina and Jacen Solo, may George Lucas have mercy on their souls

 

Then obviously they're overreacting waaaaaay to much.

[WDreamer]

Remember, that the OP has both combatants at 100% health. Where as in the part you mention:

 

 

Kylo was bleeding out from getting shot with a bowcaster. Fighting even a couple of novices can be tough if you're bleeding internally.

 

You have a point. No other Jedi/Sith in the movies have endured as much injury and continued to fight, besides Darth Vader in RotJ. Even Obiwan completely passes out from pain in his fight in AotC.

[Wulftun]

 

For me it seemed that Kylo Ren was hitting the wound to cause more pain. Pain = More dark side points. And ofc being wounded by blaster shot + Finn hit him once made him weaker.

 

I really enjoyed Kylo Ren. I want to see this character grow in the next movies and not be replaced by disposable villain #4.

 

How much cybernetics Kylo Ren will get in the next movie? He got hit in the face, pierced in the shoulder and also hit in the stomach with blaster. And also hit in the leg.

 

[SithKoriandr]

For me it seemed that Kylo Ren was hitting the wound to cause more pain. Pain = More dark side points. And ofc being wounded by blaster shot + Finn hit him once made him weaker.

 

I really enjoyed Kylo Ren. I want to see this character grow in the next movies and not be replaced by disposable villain #4.

 

How much cybernetics Kylo Ren will get in the next movie? He got hit in the face, pierced in the shoulder and also hit in the stomach with blaster. And also hit in the leg.

 

 

I thought he was masking one pain with another he could keep moving about with

 

[Ghost_Spectre]

The problem with that is that it was embarrassingly clear that...

Vader was just toying with and testing Luke. Vader didn't even start to get serious until Luke got a lucky shot in, and then it was over in a few seconds.

 

 

Also, we're putting spoiler tags on stuff from ESB?

 

I did that because it was included with information from TFA.

 

I will point out that by the time Luke got his lucky hit in, he'd already been pummeled by large metal objects that Vader had thrown at him. I believe Vader did that to stay out of range of Luke's lightsabre because he sensed how strong Luke was and he was allowing his rage to fuel him in his fight.

 

Remember, Luke was there to help defend his 'friends.' His emotions were running amok. Luke's hit on Vader came when Vader was forced into a position that lowered his guard by Luke's assault. Watch that scene again and pay attention to it. I noticed that when I watched it the other day.

 

This is why Vader cut off Luke's hand because he was dangerous. And in ROTJ we find out this to be true when he literally beat Vader to his knees and returned the favor (albeit after Luke's thoughts betrayed his sister's presence to Vader. And gave him the 'power' fueled by his emotions to do that. In that scene, in retrospect, Luke was very much like his father in allowing his emotions to fuel his drive.

 

Now that the movie is out...

 

Rey is different from Luke in that she can control her emotions. That came from years of solitude on Jakkar. You see this in 2 scenes.

 

1. When she's in the interrogation chair and tries to force persuade the stormtrooper while she was angry. When she calms herself...well...results speaks for itself.

 

2. When she was at the edge of that crevasse sabers locked with Kylo he says: "You need a teacher, let me teach you about the force." She says, 'the force.' And remembers what the women said to her. 'Close your eyes, feel the force around you, let it flow through you, let it guide you...' After closing her eyes, she did just that and well...results speak for themselves.

 

Yes, I believe she will be more than an equal for her dad (Luke) in my opinion. I for one, am looking forward to seeing what transpires over the next 2 episodes.

 

Oh, and I just heard in a news report on the movie that there's going to be a few spin offs from the series, one in particular, Hans Solo stand alone movie. Thought I'd throw that into the mix.

[cs_zoltan]

Aayla would humiliate Kylo. Luke? Mismatch of the century.

[ConVallian]

Aayla would humiliate Kylo. Luke? Mismatch of the century.

 

 

Aayla is a fully trained master from the prime of the jedi...of course she woud win. But i have a feeling kylo will eventually become just as if not more powerful than vader. I mean he's already shown to be incredibly powerful Plus he has Anakin's genes. Meaning he has anakin's potential. I guess what im trying to say is he'll eventual reach a potential of power Anakin couldnt because of the suit. Also he's emotionally disturbed which makes him very dangerous. Vader and the PT era guys will probably always be better with a lightsaber than the new characters going forward. But Kylo's training isn't complete yet so.

 

 

But my answer for the OP

 

 

Kylo beats ESB movie incarnation of luke hands down. Don't give me he was even with vader he wasn't vader was toying with him because he wanted him alive he could've ended the fight before it began if he wanted.

 

RotJ Luke is probably either way but i still think Kylo wins majority in this as well. I mean come on Kylo has had way more time to develop his powers than luke did during the movies, plus he has the same potential as luke. I mean he has shown a better force power feat than luke in this movie so yeaah thats my opinion.

side-note i never thought of luke as a fighter. I compare him to being the gohan of this series,he powerful and potential is limitless but his character doesn't support it. Remember it wasn't brute strength and master sword skills that defeated the dark side in the OT.

 

[myrdinn]

 

I cannot think of an actual Jedi Knight in the OT, PT, or CW that would lose to Kylo on a shear lightsaber technique battle. Kylo/Ben may have a lot of potential, but that is it at the moment.

Now, the two schmoes in Rebels? They might lose to Kylo.

Luke? None of the post-boot camp versions of Luke would lose.

 

[lukewarcriminal]

 

well if they fought in ep7 luke would beat Ren with the lollypop that Ren just have had in his mouth, but as we heard - Kylo's training isin't finished yet so he probably will be stronger not to mention he is not torn apart anymore (poor Han ). Yes his lightsaber skills ain't impressive but stopping that bolt at very beginning of the movie was no small thing. U say he has lost to Rey but he was offering her training, so no bigger harm was intended.

 

anyway guy seems kind of wierd - he knew that Finn was acting strange in village - he knew something was off and we know that force users are good in reading future so woot? then he witnessed Rey's "awakening" yet he just left her with one stormpooper i mean srsly?

 

Edited December 19, 2015 by lukewarcriminal

[ConVallian]

I'd say ren has been trained much like an inquisitor, but backwards. instead of focus on combat and sword skills he was trained too use the force primarily, that probably explains why his power is greater than his swordsmanship

[WayneJarvis]

Ren was able to destroy all of Luke's new Academy, weather all by himself or with help we don't know yet. If it was by himself that is most impressive. Now Ren's training isn't complete yet, as snoke said at the end. As they are now I would imagine Luke would be able to beat him. Being the closet thing to a Jedi Knight in the end of rotj, and Ren being more on par with a padawan

as a side note, my watchman battlemaster would turn him into a nice pile of ash.

[bigray]

I think ESB Luke would beat TFA Kylo in a battle of swords, but I think Kylo had better mastery of the Force especially telekinetics. That's the first time in all 7 movies that we saw someone suspend a bolt in midair. Vader didn't even do that in ESB. But at other times he seemed shaky, unsure. Kylo is very much in between two worlds.

 

On a side note could you imagine how interesting Anakin could have been in Ep2/3 if he was written more like Kylo? Or maybe he was, but Adam Driver is just better able to convey the insecurities. But clearly Kylo takes after his grandfather not just in Force capability but emotionally, too.

Edited December 20, 2015 by bigray

[cs_zoltan]

That's the first time in all 7 movies that we saw someone suspend a bolt in midair.

 

So? Bolts have no weight, only momentum. Considering that padawans can react to the speed of blaster bolts that feat is trivial.