Eksenia Posted December 9, 2015 Share Posted December 9, 2015 According to Bant's informative thread, supposedly pyro outperforms AP now. I haven't been doing much ops the last week with my main PT (mainly because it is already full 224) so I haven't really bothered to check out. Have anybody given it pyro a serious go since 4.0.3 or did you all just scrap your PTs? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kaytrine Posted December 9, 2015 Share Posted December 9, 2015 (edited) Pyro is one of the worst parsing specs in the game right now, and there's no reason to play it besides the "fun" factor. AP PTs are fine after the nerf. Players are just butthurt they are no longer OP. I just parsed 6670DPS as AP PT, which is perfect in terms of DPS compared to where all other DPS specs are at. Remember, AP PT is supposedly a burst spec, and it is still the best burst spec in the game. We just can't sustain 7K DPS anymore. AND THAT IS THE WAY IT SHOULD BE. Edited December 9, 2015 by Kaytrine Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eksenia Posted December 9, 2015 Author Share Posted December 9, 2015 Pyro is one of the worst parsing specs in the game right now, and there's no reason to play it besides the "fun" factor. AP PTs are fine after the nerf. PPl are just butthurt they are no longer OP. I just parsed 6670DPS as AP PT, which is perfect in terms of DPS compared to where all other DPS specs are at. Remember, AP PT is supposedly a burst spec, and it is still the best burst spec in the game. We just can't sustain 7K DPS anymore. AND THAT IS THE WAY IT SHOULD BE. Ok. I don't think you read what I wrote, and if you did you certainly didn't comprehend. First: I did not say PTs were not fine. You assume too much. Second: The question is based upon the numbers Bant posted among which AP is listed below pyro in the dps performance section. And because I haven't compared it myself outside of pure theorycrafting, I asked if somebody had. Apparently you haven't, so be silent. Pyro was certainly bad before 4.0.3 and possibly still is. Bad however is a relative term. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Highallday Posted December 9, 2015 Share Posted December 9, 2015 Nah Pyro's not better. AP's not crushing charts anymore. But nah, pyro's still behind. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eksenia Posted December 9, 2015 Author Share Posted December 9, 2015 Ok, so theory and practice don't equal in this case. Good to know, saves me some parsing. Thanks! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SHLOOMPA Posted December 9, 2015 Share Posted December 9, 2015 Pyro is one of the worst parsing specs in the game right now, and there's no reason to play it besides the "fun" factor. AP PTs are fine after the nerf. Players are just butthurt they are no longer OP. I just parsed 6670DPS as AP PT, which is perfect in terms of DPS compared to where all other DPS specs are at. Remember, AP PT is supposedly a burst spec, and it is still the best burst spec in the game. We just can't sustain 7K DPS anymore. AND THAT IS THE WAY IT SHOULD BE. For one, the increase in dps at the drop of 4.0 was relevant to the HM and NIM operations. some classes were left behind in terms of dummy parsing, however these classes have and remain aoe spec classes and not single target burst. As for the nerf on VG's and PT's, I have calculated a 10% drop in dps which is far more than the original post by Kwerty stating a 6% loss. There are still classes parsing 7k and because of all the babies playing this game, VG's and PT's have taken an unnecessary loss in dps. Tactics is single target burst and should be parsing high on a dummy. The aoe abilities are far weaker than those of other classes rendering the VG Tactics to have to rely on single target damage. This nerf is ridiculous and I for one am outraged. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NigeldeJ Posted December 9, 2015 Share Posted December 9, 2015 (edited) For PvE dps, the only thing that you can somewhat complain about, is the fact that annihilation marauder didn't get a slightly bigger nerf. Other then that, AP PT is still up there amongst the best parsing (and operation dps for that matter) specs. On top of that it's incredibly easy to play, and a little bit more forgiving on the movement. You got more range compared to the marauder on pretty much all abilities, and the only other high parsing dummy specs (1. Engi and 2. Virulence sniper and 3. IO merc) are harder to pull off due to 1. having to rely on a static target, and 2. having to rely on pretty much a tank and spank fight. It's harder to swap targets with virulence. 3. Same goes for IO merc. It's definately not undoable, don't get me wrong, it's just slightly suboptimal to be switching targets all the time. So in short: I don't think that AP PT's have anything to complain about, you're still up there with the best. Especially in a raid environment, where it actually matters instead of the dummy. If anything a LOT of other classes/specs should've probably gotten a buff to actually be able to compete with the numbers a pt can pull. Edit: sorry for going a little off-topic here I found that I was still ahead of pyro on the dummy, I can only imagine that going pyro in operations is gonna be even harder to get close to the numbers that AP can pull. Edited December 9, 2015 by NigeldeJ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TACeMossie Posted December 10, 2015 Share Posted December 10, 2015 (edited) I've been running pyro as much as I could get away with it prior to 4.0.3, and have been putting 'competitive' numbers with some of our other raid members whenever I did it (keeping up with my AP numbers on the fights where I specifically chose it, though getting absolutely crushed by engineering). This is without the assailable debuff being available though, so I could push it even further. After these nerfs, the choice between AP and Pyro is simple. 1. Do you need the extra mobility afforded by AP? If so, take it. Example: Coratanni + Ruugar, Revan, Kiting Raptus in Dread Council 2. Is there enough raid-wide damage to constantly have energy shield up, and deal extra damage from it with pyro shield? Do you need the AoE damage reduction to survive? If so, take AP. Examples: Nefra (Raid-wide damage), Underlurker (Raid-wide damage), Ruugar (AoE damage reduction) 3. Does your raid have access to the assailable debuff? If not, take AP Examples: Have a Virulence Sniper, Annihilation Marauder, Innovative Ordinance Merc, or a DPS Operative 4. Does your raid have access to the sundered debuff? If not, take AP Examples: DPS Juggernaut, Arsenal Merc, Carnage Marauder, AP PT Otherwise, Pyro should be a better spec for the fight. Oh and grab pyro for fights with lots of adds, such as Dash'roode, Olok the Shadow, Writhing Horror, Draxus, Corruptor Zero, Bestia, Sparky, Torque, and the Revanite Commanders. Edited December 10, 2015 by TACeMossie Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ethician Posted December 10, 2015 Share Posted December 10, 2015 Pyro is one of the worst parsing specs in the game right now, and there's no reason to play it besides the "fun" factor. AP PTs are fine after the nerf. Players are just butthurt they are no longer OP. I just parsed 6670DPS as AP PT, which is perfect in terms of DPS compared to where all other DPS specs are at. Remember, AP PT is supposedly a burst spec, and it is still the best burst spec in the game. We just can't sustain 7K DPS anymore. AND THAT IS THE WAY IT SHOULD BE. The two of us are quite possibly playing two different games. AP PTs were never *the* OP class, 4--4.0.3 snipers and maras were ahead. The best burst spec? I would suggest you to play carnage mara and refer you to parsely.io leaderboards. Scroll to the very bottom and find AP, then scroll all the way back up and find combat sent. Compare those two. ... Oh and grab pyro for fights with lots of adds, such as Dash'roode, Olok the Shadow, Writhing Horror, Draxus, Corruptor Zero, Bestia, Sparky, Torque, and the Revanite Commanders. Something I meant to ask you: I presume we all have and can play other classes, I find it hard to justify bringing Pyro anywhere since it's AOE viability relies on a small area of impact and static channel on a long CD. Virtually any other class can pull off better AOE consistently, meaning they can stop and start channeling their AOEs again if the targets move. Is there something I am missing here? Also, is there a way to hit more than two turrets on Torque? And what do you do if you have to interrupt your channel due to a vent? I find it more efficient to let other classes dish out AOE dmg. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kaytrine Posted December 10, 2015 Share Posted December 10, 2015 (edited) The two of us are quite possibly playing two different games. AP PTs were never *the* OP class, 4--4.0.3 snipers and maras were ahead. The best burst spec? I would suggest you to play carnage mara and refer you to parsely.io leaderboards. Scroll to the very bottom and find AP, then scroll all the way back up and find combat sent. Compare those two. Something I meant to ask you: I presume we all have and can play other classes, I find it hard to justify bringing Pyro anywhere since it's AOE viability relies on a small area of impact and static channel on a long CD. Virtually any other class can pull off better AOE consistently, meaning they can stop and start channeling their AOEs again if the targets move. Is there something I am missing here? Also, is there a way to hit more than two turrets on Torque? And what do you do if you have to interrupt your channel due to a vent? I find it more efficient to let other classes dish out AOE dmg. First of all. Maras do not have better burst than AP PT. Maras are better DPS, not burst. No where in Parsely.io displays burst damage. So I don't even know where you're coming from with that. Besides, a burst rotation is different from a parse rotation. With all CD available, AP PTs blow Carnage Maras out of water in terms of damage dealt right off the bat. Now back on topic. Pyrotech simply is very underwhelming right now. Supposedly an AOE/DOT spec, but is lackluster in both. Edited December 10, 2015 by Kaytrine Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FSavop Posted December 11, 2015 Share Posted December 11, 2015 Pyro is just not worth playing unless you are dedicated to the spec for some sentimental reason; yes, on paper it is amazing at dishing out AOE damage but in real world raid environments it even struggles at that. The nerf was justified, AP is in the tier of easiest specs to play in the game, has zero channeled abilities, amazing mobility, amazing survivability (especially over Pyro which lacks the 30% AOE damage reduction from the tree), and was/is top tier in terms of burst damage. While it is nerfed on paper, AP's damage always translated very well to raids because of what was mentioned above, bringing it back up to a middle of the road balanced spec. Pyro just needed to be reworked to make it viable, its not even like AP's AOE is terrible. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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