Has anyone found any "sense" in using a non-Force character in Kotfe?

[JourrnoRush]

I'm playing my agent and it just feels...weird...

Felt cool on my JC, SW and SI

Thoughts?

[Tashia]

I guess it's just easy or something for me to just get into the story with other types of characters -- hardest thing for me is to get them all influenced up and geared up

-- other than that, no problems -- this is just a fantasy space game -- I've always had a good imagination and have been able to see a lot of potential non force using heros -- for me, they are just as viable as my JK

[Ghenghis-Khan]

my argument was I killed the emperor way to easy. One shot from the back with my blaster on merc. This whole time the universe is terrified of him and I didn't even have to aim.

[Jedi_riches]

I have played KoTFE only once as yet, but I struggle to see me doing it on a none force user.

 

I have actually considered not doing KoTFE with any class other than Sith and Jedi.

[Cedia]

my argument was I killed the emperor way to easy. One shot from the back with my blaster on merc. This whole time the universe is terrified of him and I didn't even have to aim.

 

My Merc doesn't believe in the Force so she thinks she's just hallucinating. At this point she thinks she's the only sane one in the galaxy.

[RayceUlrand]

I was always intrigued with the idea of force sensitive individuals who either never had the opportunity to become Jedi or Sith, or refused to be. It's just that they're so iconic it's hard to imagine a Smuggler or Bounty Hunter on the same level as the JK and SW. I chalk it up to circumstances demanding these capable individuals while the others are MIA; you see that Satele is hiding away. It's possible that if someone like her was still around, they'd ask her to lead given her experience as Jedi Grandmaster.

 

It doesn't often feel as 'good' or heroic when facing people like Arcann with a non-Force class, but I just consider it as your character having a Han Solo moment of, "Never tell me the odds!" and just doing what needs to be done. You're the first and last line of defense against Zakuul during this time. Saber or not, you've got the experience and the skills to pose a considerable threat, enough for Arcann to obsess over you no matter what weapon you wield.

[JLazarillo]

In the game, there's no indication whatsoever that being able to use the Force is anything other than a useful tool, and that lack of it can be compensated with the right weapons/training/trickery. KotFE isn't really special in this regard; both Jedi and Dark Council members end up getting beaten by "mundane" opponents, potentially, and Operations feature extremely powerful individuals lacking in any sort of Force abilities, but who no Jedi/Sith PC could hope to overcome alone.

[Ottoattack]

I'm playing my agent and it just feels...weird...

Felt cool on my JC, SW and SI

Thoughts?

 

I started KOTFE on my main PT, and played CH1, and the story did not make any sense. I switched to my JK and it felt appropriate.

[Argonloris]

You could also consider that the characters are all force sensitive though the troopers, agents, smugglers, and hunters are only moderately so. There was always the theory that Han was force sensitive and wasn't aware of it. Good luck could be attributed to an unknowing use of the force. The force users may not recognize the players as force sensitive since the ability only happens in extreme situations.

[Vyerix]

Kneel, problem solved

[SithKoriandr]

You could also consider that the characters are all force sensitive though the troopers, agents, smugglers, and hunters are only moderately so. There was always the theory that Han was force sensitive and wasn't aware of it. Good luck could be attributed to an unknowing use of the force. The force users may not recognize the players as force sensitive since the ability only happens in extreme situations.

 

Agent is specifically said not to be force sensitive.

 

I think the smuggler too, but not 100% on that and don't think the Trooper or Hunter is specifically said not to be.

[Ramalina]

Well, there are missions on Voss that pretty strongly imply that non-force using characters actually have a pretty strong latent force sensitivity. Somthing along the lines of, "We're not having this Vision for you, we're just helping temporarily unlock your innate ability to do it on your own."

 

I know I got that on my smuggler, can't remember on my trooper or agent, but I suspect they got the same exact mission and cutscene.

 

It would make sense to a Jedi or Sith that the other classes have some untapped force potential, as they officially don't belive in luck or coincidence. On the other hand some of that is just arrogance, and a habit of underestimating those that are weak in the force.

 

Lore wise, with a few exceptions, all living things are assumed to be connected to the force, so it's not so much a question of having the force so much as having the ability to do flashy impressive stunts with the force.

 

The oddest bit is that Arcann spends all this time fightng the non force users instead of just force pushing them off of a really high ledge or walkway at the first opportunity. Then again, he seems to have a habit of not thinking things through very well when he's angry or excited.

[CaptainCaim]

I'd argue that fighting Jedi and Sith for non-Force Users is somewhat different in the SWTOR era than some of the other settings. Jedi and Sith are everywhere here, and pretty much anyone involved in the war is going to run into one or the other eventually. This is a time when cortisis-woven vibroblades are a dime a dozen and lightsaber-mitigating energy shields are...maybe not common, but no doubt readily available to individuals as ridiculously skilled and/or connected the non-Force Sensitive classes.

 

Also, techniques for how to properly engage them are probably much more widely taught and constantly developed, again since most soldiers on both sides of the war are bound to run into a fully trained Jedi or Sith on the battlefield sooner or later. The codex even flat out states that the members of the Imperial Guard are completely capable of dueling Jedi and Sith toe-to-toe.

 

As far as Arcann and Force users in general go, The Force is an extremely powerful and versatile tool, but generally requires concentration and being able to see whoever you want to effect to work and the arsenals the non-Force Sensitive classes are bringing to bear are also similarly dangerous.

 

...Alternatively, Arcann might have actually been genre savvy enough to know that killing someone with a lightsaber is a way more sure-fire way making sure someone is dead in Star Wars than hoping a fall into a seemingly bottomless pit will end them!

[SteveTheCynic]

You could also consider that the characters are all force sensitive though the troopers, agents, smugglers, and hunters are only moderately so. There was always the theory that Han was force sensitive and wasn't aware of it. Good luck could be attributed to an unknowing use of the force. The force users may not recognize the players as force sensitive since the ability only happens in extreme situations.

Valky says *explicity* that the trooper / smuggler (not done it on agent or bh) is NOT force sensitive. If I had to pick one person in the galaxy who would know, Valky would be the one.

[Melaphont]

Maybe Star Wars will fix itself(imo) and not make Force Users DBZ over powered. There should be Cad Bane or equivalent to Batman/Tony Stark types, that can take on force users through tech, ability, and intelligence. The EU in Star Wars(specially post Episode 6) made force users stupidly powerful, to the point of nonsense, imo. Hopefully post canon reset, they dont allow power creep in the Star Wars universe.

 

Just me hoping... I very much dislike the idea of the most powerful force users having no "Batman" equivalent that can stand toe to toe(in their own way, that is).

[Shayddow]

I'll just tackle the question for one of them. The Bounty Hunter. Even in the OT you had the case of a BH being hired by Darth Vader to subdue Luke. And the BH learns enough Mando tradition and the Mandalorians are famous for being able to go up against Sith and Jedi - basically letting their own physical training and gadgets do the work.

 

Even in EU Darth Maul went up against a clan of Mando and "earned" their loyalty by fighting and winning against them while specifically only using his physical abilities and not using his force abilities. But the Mandalorian is proud to be able to stand toe-to-toe with Jedi and battle the "best of the best".

And proves this in the 1-50 story where she battles both Jedi and Sith and comes out on top.

 

So running my BH through the KOTFE 1-9 story did not seem overly strange.

[SithKoriandr]

Just me hoping... I very much dislike the idea of the most powerful force users having no "Batman" equivalent that can stand toe to toe(in their own way, that is).

 

So you think the Force Users need a kryptonite? Because this arguement seems to consider the Force Users as Superman and the only way Batman can ever beat Superman is through Kryptonite use.

 

In the EU I believe they have something that kills all force use in it's vicinity.

 

Or do you mean plot armor? As that's also a way Batman wins against Superman.

 

Now all that said, I don't think Force Users are Superman level powerlevel, but you never see one awesome Hunter go 1 versus 10 Force Users. You can see 1 awesome force user go against 10 Hunters.

 

We do know Force Users aren't all awesome and we know they can be out numbered.

[Shayddow]

<<but you never see one awesome Hunter go 1 versus 10 Force Users.>>

you can come close to that on that IMP heroic on Nar shaddaa....

[Excise]

I didn't have a big issue with it. From Makeb onward (and arguably Corellia) the Agent has been drifting a touch from spy to soldier. Leading a resistance cell seems like a natural fit for him.

 

Course, all that Valkorian stuff is a bit wack for a non-Force user, but the Agent is used to having his mind twisted into a plaything by others.

[Ramalina]

Valky says *explicity* that the trooper / smuggler (not done it on agent or bh) is NOT force sensitive. If I had to pick one person in the galaxy who would know, Valky would be the one.

 

Interesting point, but given that even my Sith Warrior never actually trusted him I'm not sure I'd use that as a reference.

 

I'm not surprised when the Voss are cryptic and manipulative, but even then they seem to have a nearly unshakeable tendency toward brutal honesty (usually with extra helpings of brutal).

 

So in the case of contradictory accounts would I trust the Voss and direct past experience, or the Emperor's word?

 

Hm. Let me think about that one . . . . .

 

 

O.k. thought about it. Can't figure out why the Emperor wants characters with latent force sensitivity to believe that they don't have latent force sensitivity, and I find that disturbing. When his goal for that is finally discovered it's likely to be an unpleasant discovery.

 

Wow, Valkorion is almost as good at generating well founded paranoi as Grand Admiral Thrawn. How cool is that?

[Melaphont]

So you think the Force Users need a kryptonite? Because this arguement seems to consider the Force Users as Superman and the only way Batman can ever beat Superman is through Kryptonite use.

 

In the EU I believe they have something that kills all force use in it's vicinity.

 

Or do you mean plot armor? As that's also a way Batman wins against Superman.

 

Now all that said, I don't think Force Users are Superman level powerlevel, but you never see one awesome Hunter go 1 versus 10 Force Users. You can see 1 awesome force user go against 10 Hunters.

 

We do know Force Users aren't all awesome and we know they can be out numbered.

 

 

When I say Batman, I mean in terms of always finding his enemies weakness. I meant less in terms of plot armor(you could argue they give force users a crapton of that, which is where almost all their EU abilities come from) and more just using technology. Jedi use their powers with the lack of technology and armor. There definitely should be Tony Starks in the Star Wars universe, that create suits of armor and weapons that allow them fight head to head. And since Jedi's abilities are at their peak with a lack of technology, it should counter balance.

 

I'm not saying there should be tons of Jedi killers and the like, but I am saying there should be a small segment of non force users that can go toe to toe with the best of the best force users, due to training, technology, and ect.

[CaptainCaim]

Hm. As far as the Bounty Hunter goes, I have been a inclined to think of it as being weird for them to be The Outlander. Though purely because of the leadership and potential management responsibilities that role winds up entailing. Then again, the Imperial Makeb story basically has all of the classes leading a Special Operations team in a desperate attempt to save the entire Empire from getting crushed by the Republic, so I suppose it's really not that much of a stretch.

 

...Also, they're one of the two non-Force sensitive classes that don't look silly whenever the cutscenes have them menace people with the Plot Pistol!

 

As far as the whole Force User vs. None-Force user thing, hasn't SWTOR been pretty good about not marginalizing the latter? Yes, Jedi and Sith are elite combatants who can rip through entire squads of your average soldier, but running into NPCs who have apparently killed "regular" Jedi or Sith before isn't all that uncommon in the game, and the playable non-Force Sensitives are Super-Mega Elites who can and do go up against Jedi and Sith who are similarly Mega-Elite even by the standards of their respective orders and more than hold their own.

 

Off the top of my head, the only exceptions to that I can think of are in the Agent story.

 

 

Where they make it clear Cipher Nine can't just beat Darth Jadus in a straight up fight. But even then, he's the second most powerful Sith in the Empire at the time, trailing behind only the Emperor. So, Cipher Nine was effectively surviving against someone who was more powerful than the final bosses of the Warrior and Inquisitor Class stories by Act 1. I'd say that's acquitting themselves extremely well.

 

 

And in the Smuggler story.

 

 

Where, if you try to kill the Sith Lady on Tatooine when you first meet her, she deflects your shots and Force-yanks the gun out of your hands...while your companion just stands there and cowers. I think that one is more of a case of the Smuggler running face-first into Plot Armor if they go that route since a significant chunk of that story and the climax of that planet rely on the Sith still being around to do things and gunning her down in the second mission would get in the way of that. It's not like the Smuggler has trouble gunning down Force-sensitives on the other occasions they encounter them in their story.

 

[JLazarillo]

And in the Smuggler story.

 

 

Where, if you try to kill the Sith Lady on Tatooine when you first meet her, she deflects your shots and Force-yanks the gun out of your hands...while your companion just stands there and cowers. I think that one is more of a case of the Smuggler running face-first into Plot Armor if they go that route since a significant chunk of that story and the climax of that planet rely on the Sith still being around to do things and gunning her down in the second mission would get in the way of that. It's not like the Smuggler has trouble gunning down Force-sensitives on the other occasions they encounter them in their story.

 

I also think it's kind of noteworthy that when you do get into a proper fight:

 

...the Sith is a lower ranked enemy than the retired crime lord. Granted, story and gameplay sometimes interact in odd ways, but it's not like they couldn't have made her a Champion and given you a Champion ally via the Jedi gal, since that happens in at least one other class story anyway.

 

[Cedia]

When I say Batman, I mean in terms of always finding his enemies weakness. I meant less in terms of plot armor(you could argue they give force users a crapton of that, which is where almost all their EU abilities come from) and more just using technology. Jedi use their powers with the lack of technology and armor. There definitely should be Tony Starks in the Star Wars universe, that create suits of armor and weapons that allow them fight head to head. And since Jedi's abilities are at their peak with a lack of technology, it should counter balance.

 

I'm not saying there should be tons of Jedi killers and the like, but I am saying there should be a small segment of non force users that can go toe to toe with the best of the best force users, due to training, technology, and ect.

 

They're called Mandalorians.

[Sardorim]

Well, the story feels off if you aren't a Jedi Knight anyway.