Are all KOTFE Chapters like that ?

[SweKaiser]

Can I have your stuff when you leave and go back to your husband's game wow?

 

Oh look, another one with no stuff becuase he hasnt got the skills to accuire things himself. Sad really.

[DataBeaver]

Anyway, enough about the trolls, and thanks to those who took the time to reply in an intelligent manner

So you're saying that all of KOTFE is like that, you play a Chapter or two, then "exit Area", go back to whatever you want to do like Operations, Flashpoints or whatnot, then jump back into KOTFE, without any sense of continuity whatsoever ?

Bingo. Like I said, it's basically a single-player game with group content glued to the end. If there are any KotFE related operations coming, they'll probably be released after all of the chapters are out sometime in the latter half of 2016.

 

So far the only chapters with public areas are chapters 4 and 7. Maybe 9 too, if you count the companion and star fortress alerts as part of that chapter. Even then 100% of cutscenes and conversations are instanced per player, so the multiplayer aspect is entirely removed from the story. I fully expect future chapters to follow the same path.

[KrazieFox]

https://www.google.co.uk/search?q=list+of+mmo%27s&ie=utf-8&oe=utf-8&gws_rd=cr&ei=Oe5bVqbpDsn3UPLbuIAG

 

Take a look at that list (above) ...

 

There are oh so many mmo's out on the market - most are very similar - few are unique.

 

BioWare are (in)famous for their fantastic story games - Mass Effect, Dragonage, Knights of the Old Republic. These are what BioWare do best. When it was announced BioWare were creating a STORY based MMO, it was aniticipated to be unique amongst mmo's ...

 

Alas, swtor became another generic mmo - added to the growing list of generic mmo's ... some have a gimick or two, but they are all basically the same. Most trying to be 'unique' but all simple 'WoW - Clones' ...

 

THEN Knights of the Fallen Empire was launched and I was transported back a decade and I felt like I was playing Knights of the Old Republic again ... it was a fantastic experience ... my first time through KotFE ... and my second time, and my third, my fourth and my fifth ... now I am getting all my characters lined up to go through.

 

FINALLY BioWare have a Unique mmo ... and if you believe servers are empty since KotFE then you must not be doing the Heroics ... try doing Mutations, or Possessed Hunter ... the queues are horrific ... 140+ people on every planet I land on - it was nothing like this pre KotFE ... numbers like that have not been seen since launch.

[Nefla]

The closer to a single player game it gets and the farther from your generic, grindy and boring MMO, the happier I get.

[Grazzt]

Thanks everyone for the answers, when we ignore the few insignificant trolls this discussion is actually going somewhere and it feels nice

 

 

Nothing you really do on a planet changes the game world. Think about the events of Shadow of Revan when Tython and Korriban were on fire in flashpoints, yet yet go to the actual planets and they look the way they did at level 10.

That's very true, and that already prevented me from enjoying the Revan expansion ... once again, I thought that the story was kinda cool, but there were so many world-altering events that simply disapeared when you went back to the very same planet with the very same character that it didn't really make sense (to me of course, I'm not speaking for everybody).

 

 

I have plenty of things to do because I'm in a guild. I group up for dailies, flashpoints, PVP, raids or just socializing. Class story has *always* been separate from the larger endgame portion of the game. I've also done plenty of low level questing and flashpoints with friends. The game's as much of a multiplayer experience as you make it.

Hmm yes maybe that would be one way to do it, I created a RP Guild back when the game first launched and we indeed had a lot of fun

 

 

There are no MMOs which deliver this currently and which would be worth playing. Trust me, I looked for them. WoW is also a lobby based game after you level up, Archeage had a potential to become what you said but Trion went for the quick buck and made it into an insufferable Pay 2 Win casino. FFXIV is also heavily instanced and lobby based.

He he why does everyone always mention WoW, I never really played it (only tried it once) and it's really not the ultimate MMO to me

I get what you're saying of course, and you're right, it's too bad that almost all of the so-called MMORPG nowadays are lacking this persistant world and sense of continuity, but SWTOR is really taking it to the next level

I know this will show how old I am, but Star Wars Galaxies was really what a MMORPG is supposed to be for me !

Black Desert might be the one we're looking for maybe ?

 

 

To you I recommend Fallout: New Vegas if you didn't play it yet. it delivers what you mentioned more than any other modern RPG. With graphical mods of course, to make it look modern.

Ok, but you gotta admit that it's kinda weird to have to go to a single-player game to find what should be found in a MMORPG, right ?

 

 

THEN Knights of the Fallen Empire was launched and I was transported back a decade and I felt like I was playing Knights of the Old Republic again

Yes, that's exactly the problem, as Knights of the Old Republic is a (really great) single-player game, and SWTOR is / was supposed to be a MMORPG...

 

 

Even then 100% of cutscenes and conversations are instanced per player, so the multiplayer aspect is entirely removed from the story. I fully expect future chapters to follow the same path.

Well then, if it's fun for most people, good for them and good for Bioware, but that would mean that it's time for me to look somewhere else to spend my time and money

 

But maybe something good could come out of this : if SWTOR is going the single-player way, and with Disney now owning LucasArts, maybe we'll have a real MMORPG based on the Star Wars universe someday in the future ?

[JasmineMoldovia]

So, I'm at Chapter III of Knights of the Fallen Empire, and although the story, cinematics, camera moving and everything are really awesome, so far this has absolutely nothing to do with a MMORPG

 

I feel like playing a really nice single player game, or even a console game (we even have the "saved progress" feature ), but that's not really what I'm looking for when playing a MMORPG ... I mean, SWTOR wasn't much of a MMORPG to begin with, but are they taking this to the next level ?

 

Are all forthcoming Chapters like that, or will it feel more like a MMORPG at some point ?

 

No chapters are all single player, thank god.

[Tolunart]

That's very true, and that already prevented me from enjoying the Revan expansion ... once again, I thought that the story was kinda cool, but there were so many world-altering events that simply disapeared when you went back to the very same planet with the very same character that it didn't really make sense (to me of course, I'm not speaking for everybody).

 

I'm not sure what you're expecting, but that's how most MMOs work. The starting zone is always the starting zone, the end game zone is always the end game zone, there are various players going through the zones at various parts of the storyline. How would you feel, as a new player, if you logged into SWTOR for the first time only to find Tython abandoned because of events from a level 60 storyline?

 

In Rift the same NPCs show up in every zone, I can talk to NPC A in the capital city and quick travel to a midlevel zone and NPC A is standing there waiting to give me a quest. Then I can quick travel back to the capital and NPC A is still there but doesn't say anything about the quest I just picked up.

 

The only MMO I know of where this doesn't happen is Elder Scrolls Online, which ironically is much more like a single player game than even SWTOR. NPCs appear and disappear, enemies become non-hostile when you finish their questlines, and there have been complaints because players in different places in the storyline cannot group with each other because of this.

 

Guild Wars 2 has tried something along these lines with their Living World stories, which changed parts of the world in different ways like destroying the capital city. This mostly causes inconvenience and confusion, because part of the storyline involves going to the capital city (which is now a pile of rubble) and confuses new players who weren't around when the city was destroyed.

 

It's the single player games where the world changes as events happen in the story. In Skyrim when you kill a dragon you can go back there and the dragon's skeleton is lying there - kill a world boss in SWTOR and it respawns in a couple of hours like nothing happened. At one point in the story some of the leaders of various towns in Skyrim are killed and replaced, who lives or dies is determined by the player's choices. At the end of the BH story it's mentioned that the governor of Taris becomes the new head honcho of the Republic, but I can immediately start a Pub character and when I get to Taris there she is.

 

It's the nature of the shared world of an MMO, there are thousands of players online at any one time, all at different points of the story. On the fleet stations a 10th level BH can stand next to a 40th level Grand Champion of the Great Hunt, and 20 levels later they're both Grand Champions. Everybody's a special snowflake in his own story, but because everyone experiences the same story, the world itself is static and never really reacts to them.

[Bobs_YourUncle]

So, I'm at Chapter III of Knights of the Fallen Empire, and although the story, cinematics, camera moving and everything are really awesome, so far this has absolutely nothing to do with a MMORPG

 

I feel like playing a really nice single player game, or even a console game (we even have the "saved progress" feature ), but that's not really what I'm looking for when playing a MMORPG ... I mean, SWTOR wasn't much of a MMORPG to begin with, but are they taking this to the next level ?

 

Are all forthcoming Chapters like that, or will it feel more like a MMORPG at some point ?

 

Yes, they are all like that more or less. The story has always been single player. Your MMORPG experience is over there at GF, WZ, OPs, and FPs, (Even heroics if you like) as its always been.

[RogerApple]

I know this might have been said before. I'll say it again. They really should just listened to the fans and made Knights of Old Republic 3-4-5-6-7. One of The Dev's said this MMO had enough content for knights of republic chapter 3-4-5-6-7. I was thinking why didn't they just release another knights of old republic game. It would been less expensive to release one game at a time and it would more then likely netted them more profit in the long run then making the MMO. Sometimes your fans know whats best.

[Grazzt]

Everybody's a special snowflake in his own story, but because everyone experiences the same story, the world itself is static and never really reacts to them.

Exactly, and that's exactly the problem (for me, once again) with all those current MMOs where the emphasis is put on a "personal story" instead of a shared persistant world.

In those MMOs, everyone is the savior of the universe, and that can't possibly make any sense when we're all supposed to share the same world.

 

That's why I'm leaning more and more to the so-called "sandbox" MMOs, where there's just some sort of tiny personal story that doesn't interfere with the persistant world.

I loved Star Wars Galaxies for that, I just pre-ordered Classic Lineage II which will be launched in December and goes back to those roots, I'm waiting for Black Desert and games like that !

 

In short, if I want to be the hero of the galaxy who saves everyone and becomes the master of all things I play a single-player game, and if I want to share a persistant world with other people I play a MMORPG

Edited November 30, 2015 by Grazzt

[Tolunart]

So....

 

(waves hand)

 

This is not the game you're looking for...

[Sundragon]

What was disappointing is that the developers prior to the release said decisions would matter. They clearly do not matter. Kneeling or not, the outcome is the same, as it is with every single "decision". Part of that I guess I can understand, you have to program a "story" and I suppose it is hard to program multiple stories, but if it wasn't so reliant upon movie cut scenes, then it could have been done.

 

Do you give an inspirational speech or not? Doesn't matter. Nothing matters. Why even ask the player if nothing matters other than a few lines from an NPC? Ohhh, I got the NPC to say THIS instead of THAT, oh boy!

 

Regardless if this is fun or not for anyone, I do wish choices actually mattered. If that means less cut scenes then so be it. It's the primary reason you can't customize some companions, because the cut scenes assume a certain look of the companion. I get it that it's a programming issue and limited manpower, but when you are presented with supposedly a big decision, only to realize later that it never mattered, is a tad frustrating.

 

I also remember saying after my second play through that I don't think people want to watch the exact same cut scene every time. "NO! WE LOVE THE CUT SCENES" people screamed and they said that's the game they wanted, even if it meant watching the same thing each time.

[Tolunart]

That's why I'm leaning more and more to the so-called "sandbox" MMOs, where there's just some sort of tiny personal story that doesn't interfere with the persistant world.

I loved Star Wars Galaxies for that, I just pre-ordered Classic Lineage II which will be launched in December and goes back to those roots, I'm waiting for Black Desert and games like that !

 

Unfortunately there is a much smaller market for that kind of game, it requires a commitment of time and effort that most casual gamers cannot make. And few can devote that kind of effort to more than one game at a time, so what audience there is for those games can only keep a limited number of games active. Game developers have come to realize that it's the person with less time and more money who spends more on the games they play than the other way around. So they create the kinds of games that more people want to spend money for.

[Tolunart]

What was disappointing is that the developers prior to the release said decisions would matter. They clearly do not matter. Kneeling or not, the outcome is the same, as it is with every single "decision". Part of that I guess I can understand, you have to program a "story" and I suppose it is hard to program multiple stories, but if it wasn't so reliant upon movie cut scenes, then it could have been done.

 

It helps if you learn how to speak marketing. Those kinds of claims are not coming straight from the programmers' mouths, its marketing-speak telling you what you want to hear. I don't expect that kind of thing because I know that eight different classes, sixteen specializations, and thirty-two dark/light sides later, everyone has to go from point A to to Point Z. Whether you visit Points B, C, D, or O, P, Q, you know that the story ends at Z and Z is the only place it can go.

[Grazzt]

So they create the kinds of games that more people want to spend money for.

 

Of course, and that's the way it should be, but do you really think that turning SWTOR into a single-player game with some multiplayer content you can do on the side is the way to go ?

I don't know, to me it feels that the reaction to KOTFE was really good at the beginning, but the hype quickly went down and most people were like "ok, so that's it, what do I do now ?"

 

At some point you have to decide what your game is, but it seems like Bioware is trying to turn SWTOR into some kind of "all games mixed into one" hybrid thing, with different aspects completely separated from one another ... you have your multiplayer "dungeons" (Operations / Flashpoints), your single-player epic story, your PvP space thingie, your player housing, but none of those things seem to really mix with one another.

Maybe that will work, like someone said in this thread it could be some new sort of game, why not, but I'm afraid that by trying to appeal to everyone you end up appealing to noone.

 

I know, for example, that this game which I really loved at the beginning despite its numerous flaws is less and less appealing to me because of all those different separate things that don't really mesh well together

Edited November 30, 2015 by Grazzt

[Master-Nala]

No meaningful decisions? My Socerer has Koth upset with her to the point of virtually walking out. Plus you're now able to actually KILL potential allies.

KotFE has made decisions more meaningful than ever before.

 

Re: Koth - I'm in the same boat on my Assassin. However, she was already in a relationship with Andronikus and Theron. So bummer?

 

Re: Killing potential allies - So I miss out on one of the 20+ companion skins. Double bummer.

 

Naw, there's not any meaningful choices.

[ImmortalLowlife]

I know this might have been said before. I'll say it again. They really should just listened to the fans and made Knights of Old Republic 3-4-5-6-7. One of The Dev's said this MMO had enough content for knights of republic chapter 3-4-5-6-7. I was thinking why didn't they just release another knights of old republic game. It would been less expensive to release one game at a time and it would more then likely netted them more profit in the long run then making the MMO. Sometimes your fans know whats best.

 

Quoted for TRUTH.....

 

OP you also have to remember that this ^^^^ is the only reason a LOT of people tried/sub to this game. THIS is my very first mmo. I've been a console gamer since the Atari 2600. I didn't have the time or desire to play mmo's. I still don't....but the last good SW rpg WAS kotor. As long as swtor continues to be single player friendly, I'll gladly pay a sub.

 

Besides....from launch up until SoR, EVERY expansion and addition to the game has been mainly for the grouping/RP crowd. SoR & KotFE finally threw a bone to us solo players....there will be more "MMO stuff" released next year. I think you'd be very surprised how many people who consider themselves "solo players" who've done little to none of the typical mmo stuff in swtor, but have been constant subs since launch.

Edited November 30, 2015 by ImmortalLowlife

[Tolunart]

Of course, and that's the way it should be, but do you really think that turning SWTOR into a single-player game with some multiplayer content you can do on the side is the way to go ?

I don't know, to me it feels that the reaction to KOTFE was really good at the beginning, but the hype quickly went down and most people were like "ok, so that's it, what do I do now ?"

 

It always was that kind of game. It seemed obvious to me at launch that someone at EA gave the order to turn a half-completed KOTOR 3 into an MMO as a money grab that largely failed due to the fact the developers had never created an MMO before, and many standard features were missing or poorly done.

 

It doesn't matter what I think. Before creating KotFE, the devs looked at three years of data on player behavior and made their decisions based on what players *actually* do in the game, not what they should be doing. Most of the hardcore players rushed through the story to get to endgame, got bored, and left. Most casual players played the storylines multiple times, don't care about PvP, flashpoints or ops, and come back to check out the expansions or still play. So they did what every successful business does and gave their customers what they want.

 

The only thing is, you don't want what their typical customer wants. They didn't make KotFE for you, so you're not going to be satisfied with it. Whether their target market is satisfied remains to be seen.

[psikofunkster]

So, I'm at Chapter III of Knights of the Fallen Empire, and although the story, cinematics, camera moving and everything are really awesome, so far this has absolutely nothing to do with a MMORPG

 

I feel like playing a really nice single player game, or even a console game (we even have the "saved progress" feature ), but that's not really what I'm looking for when playing a MMORPG ... I mean, SWTOR wasn't much of a MMORPG to begin with, but are they taking this to the next level ?

 

Are all forthcoming Chapters like that, or will it feel more like a MMORPG at some point ?

 

 

They are all pretty much the same, by chapter 4 i was already booored on my first toon, on the second one just space bar all, i'm not even touching kofte on the rest of my toons....there's 0 incentive for me right now to resub...

Edited November 30, 2015 by psikofunkster

[Krenzikai]

Oh look, another one with no stuff becuase he hasnt got the skills to accuire things himself. Sad really.

 

Merely giving the standard response to people who need to write paragraphs (outside of the unsubscribers thread where that's generally expected and the point of said thread) about how unleet this game is. This game isn't that hard, I am able to get "stuff." You must be new around here. And no I didn't bother to look at your post history to see if you were or not.

 

Enjoy your future gaming elsewhere WoW devwife.

[Eillack]

Yup, this is the game moving forward, OP.

[BrianDavion]

Operations in Story Mode start from level 60.

 

50 actually

[SootyTX]

Of course, and that's the way it should be, but do you really think that turning SWTOR into a single-player game with some multiplayer content you can do on the side is the way to go ?

I don't know, to me it feels that the reaction to KOTFE was really good at the beginning, but the hype quickly went down and most people were like "ok, so that's it, what do I do now ?"

 

At some point you have to decide what your game is, but it seems like Bioware is trying to turn SWTOR into some kind of "all games mixed into one" hybrid thing, with different aspects completely separated from one another ... you have your multiplayer "dungeons" (Operations / Flashpoints), your single-player epic story, your PvP space thingie, your player housing, but none of those things seem to really mix with one another.

Maybe that will work, like someone said in this thread it could be some new sort of game, why not, but I'm afraid that by trying to appeal to everyone you end up appealing to noone.

 

I know, for example, that this game which I really loved at the beginning despite its numerous flaws is less and less appealing to me because of all those different separate things that don't really mesh well together

 

The problem all game devrelopers have is somewhat encapsulated by this very thread (troll comments aside). You yourself show a classic example of one issue - you ask for commentry about the MMO nature of the game, then get sidetracked by some troll telling you to go play a purely single player game (FNV) because of story (which he touted as far more significant than it really is in that game).

 

Others have commented well on the nature of SWTOR - it is a mixed single/multi-player experience, because that is what the market is leaning towards today. As far as the discussion over choices goes, no-one knows yet, and anyone pretending to know, either way, is talking from ignorance. We simply don't know how the next chapters are going to work out and how our journey unfolds.

 

Ultimately it comes down to - do you care about the journey, or do you just want the gold star at the end? Some players clearly don't even understand the concept of the journey, as their constant comments on every thread about companions 'being identical' prove. Some expect to make a far bigger impact in SW history than is conceivably possible - unrealistic expectations don't make for a fun experience in any walk of life. Many, as shown by the vast uptick in population playing, have voted with their wallet to give KotFE a thumbs up. And the key thing to always remember on these forums is - those people are generally in the game having fun and not out here posting, making the forum view horribly twisted. After a while you get to recognise the same old names posting negatively in every thread and gloss over them.

[Grazzt]

Others have commented well on the nature of SWTOR - it is a mixed single/multi-player experience, because that is what the market is leaning towards today.

Allow me to disagree on this, if you look at the new games which are on the horizon, most of them are really going back to the sandbox roots of MMORPGs.

Actually, most people in the industry agree on the fact that WildStar was probably the last AAA themepark MMO we'll see for a while...

 

 

As far as the discussion over choices goes, no-one knows yet, and anyone pretending to know, either way, is talking from ignorance. We simply don't know how the next chapters are going to work out and how our journey unfolds.

Yes, but as someone said, we'll most likely end at the very same point in the end, even if we made some minor changes to our story along the way.

The Secret World, on the other hand, gives you a very different ending experience depending on the choices you've made during your journey ... it's nothing game-altering or anything, but storywise it really feels like the choices you made matter.

 

 

Ultimately it comes down to - do you care about the journey, or do you just want the gold star at the end?

Personally, I only care about the journey, that's why I'm spending my time in this alternate reality, to enjoy it while I'm there, not only to reach for something in the end.

 

 

The only thing is, you don't want what their typical customer wants. They didn't make KotFE for you, so you're not going to be satisfied with it. Whether their target market is satisfied remains to be seen.

That's very true, but that's also very sad for me, because as a Star Wars fan I would have loved to keep on playing SWTOR as long as possible, I was here from the very beginning and I still think that this game has a lot of very cool features, but I'm not really enjoying the path it's taking, that's not what I'm looking for in a MMORPG

 

To sum it up, it really feels to me like BioWare just said "ok, screw this, let's get back to what we do best, which is a story-driven single-player game where we take complete control of the story and don't care about the IP anymore".

It's their game and they're entitled to do whatever they want of course, and whatever they feel is gonna earn them the most money, but I guess that's it for me then, I'm probably gonna spend my time and money some place else, I may even try some of those Star Wars Galaxies EMU servers if I can get past the now-outdated graphics

[Ramalina]

Of course, and that's the way it should be, but do you really think that turning SWTOR into a single-player game with some multiplayer content you can do on the side is the way to go ?

I don't know, to me it feels that the reaction to KOTFE was really good at the beginning, but the hype quickly went down and most people were like "ok, so that's it, what do I do now ?"

 

At some point you have to decide what your game is, but it seems like Bioware is trying to turn SWTOR into some kind of "all games mixed into one" hybrid thing, with different aspects completely separated from one another ... you have your multiplayer "dungeons" (Operations / Flashpoints), your single-player epic story, your PvP space thingie, your player housing, but none of those things seem to really mix with one another.

Maybe that will work, like someone said in this thread it could be some new sort of game, why not, but I'm afraid that by trying to appeal to everyone you end up appealing to noone.

 

I know, for example, that this game which I really loved at the beginning despite its numerous flaws is less and less appealing to me because of all those different separate things that don't really mesh well together

 

What you want isn't impossible, it's just extremely difficult and work intensive, which is why not many studios make serious efforts to pull it off.

 

If you want a world/galaxy simulator that can have story content deployed on top of it, you really need to have an engine design and content design that are built to support that sort of thing. The Hero engine and existing SWTOR content fail hugely on those counts. So if you get that sort of thing, it's going to be from a different piece of software. A very different piece, especially in the internal workings.

 

I suppose you could ask for that sort of thing in a suggestions thread about development of SWTOR II: The return of the return of Revan and Kephess. It's just not gonna happen with the SWTOR we currently have, starting with a blank .txt file would be easier than reworking what we already have.