"If you don't like it, leave" = bad for the game

[The_Grand_Nagus]

• Person A: "I hate OP comps!"
  
• Person B: "If you don't like it, leave"
  
• Person C: "I hate nerfed comps!"
  
• Person D: "If you don't like it leave"
  

 

And of course, there is also the variation of "I hate X so I'm cancelling", followed up by "good, get lost!". However, there is one simple fact that a lot of people don't seem to realize:

 

Whether you agree with someone or not, THEIR money(be it subscription or in the cartel market) funds YOUR content.

The less people playing and paying, the less revenue the game makes, which means the less content development it gets. That directly affects you(each of us). I get it, though. No one likes to hear complaining and whining. But guess what? That is 90% of what MMO forums are always going to be. That is never going to change. So knowing that, go ahead and argue or debate or try to have a reasonable conversation; whatever suits your fancy. But DON'T tell people to leave the game, because that actually affects YOUR future content.

Edited November 21, 2015 by The_Grand_Nagus

[SamAnders]

On the plus side, most of the time when people complain about things and threaten to unsub they really don't.

 

It just so happens that this time people most likely did, to get a response that quickly.

[The_Grand_Nagus]

On the plus side, most of the time when people complain about things and threaten to unsub they really don't.

 

It just so happens that this time people most likely did, to get a response that quickly.

 

Tis' true. Most people are all talk. Either way though, you shouldn't want people to leave, even if you disagree with them. I'm happy to have my content funded by people I disagree with, because disagreeing with them doesn't stop me from enjoying the content when I play it

[geschmonz]

So the best thing to do is to add options to the game.

 

As like tuning companions back to prior 4.0.2 and asking those who like a challenge to disable companion abilities.

[The_Grand_Nagus]

So the best thing to do is to add options to the game.

 

As like tuning companions back to prior 4.0.2 and asking those who like a challenge to disable companion abilities.

 

Options are nice, but that actually has nothing to do with my point. I simply used the companion issue as an example, but it could be anything. Regardless of why you disagree with someone, you shouldn't want them to stop playing. You should want their money funding the game.

[ShepardSpock]

True, Nagus.

 

I remember a forum that told people to leave if they didn't like things to a MMO. That worked out well for Tabula Rasa which lasted about a year.

[geschmonz]

Options are nice, but that actually has nothing to do with my point. I simply used the companion issue as an example, but it could be anything. Regardless of why you disagree with someone, you shouldn't want them to stop playing. You should want their money funding the game.

 

You are completely right. I would never dare to ask someone to stop playing.

 

And options actually allow people to tune their gameplay as they like it.

 

Bioware actually decided to take away options instead of giving more of them. And a special breed of players actually used it to tell people to leave if they have no fun anymore. Which surely is the worst solution possible.

 

So to actually fix the problem, we need a compromise. And a compromise adds options to a game. As like the companion ability switch i mentioned.

Edited November 21, 2015 by geschmonz

[TUXs]

• Person A: "I hate OP comps!"
  
• Person B: "If you don't like it, leave"
  
• Person C: "I hate nerfed comps!"
  
• Person D: "If you don't like it leave"
  

 

And of course, there is also the variation of "I hate X so I'm cancelling", followed up by "good, get lost!". However, there is one simple fact that a lot of people don't seem to realize:

 

Whether you agree with someone or not, THEIR money(be it subscription or in the cartel market) funds YOUR content.

The less people playing and paying, the less revenue the game makes, which means the less content development it gets. That directly affects you(each of us). I get it, though. No one likes to hear complaining and whining. But guess what? That is 90% of what MMO forums are always going to be. That is never going to change. So knowing that, go ahead and argue or debate or try to have a reasonable conversation; whatever suits your fancy. But DON'T tell people to leave the game, because that actually affects YOUR future content.

I could not agree more The_Grand_Nagus, but the people who tell others to quit, don't care...they're generally selfish individuals who lack any ability to see something from another persons perspective. If the game closes because they run players off, they'll still refuse to see how they contribute to the toxicity around here.

[Roalmo]

On the plus side, most of the time when people complain about things and threaten to unsub they really don't.

 

It just so happens that this time people most likely did, to get a response that quickly.

 

When the game was on a slow decline, pre the expansion PR, you are correct, they would beech and not follow thru with the unsub remarks.

 

After the expansion was publicized, a new breed of cats showed up, guys who left quietly years ago, and newbies who had never been here. If the returners become dissatisfied they repeat the leaving again, and when they say unsub they mean it; as to the newbies, if it ain't fun they leave, loudly or quietly doesn't matter.

 

With the returners in the real world, they will talk about why they left, if asked. When the newbies leave, my guess is most of them will beech to high heaven to anyone that will listen.

 

Sorta like shooting yourself in the foot and then reloading for BW.

[MaximusRex]

So the best thing to do is to add options to the game.

 

As like tuning companions back to prior 4.0.2 and asking those who like a challenge to disable companion abilities.

 

This is a bit of a denial of the problems, other then some people thinking solo mode too easy, that companion power was causing.

 

Saying turn off abilities off is a great solution to the solo problem, I advocated for it myself, but it doesn't fix healers getting kicked out of group finder instances before they even had a chance to prove themselves because companion healers were massively outperforming players.

[Draqsko]

You are completely right. I would never dare to ask someone to stop playing.

 

And options actually allow people to tune their gameplay as they like it.

 

Bioware actually decided to take away options instead of giving more of them. And a special breed of players actually used it to tell people to leave if they have no fun anymore. Which surely is the worst solution possible.

 

So to actually fix the problem, we need a compromise. And a compromise adds options to a game. As like the companion ability switch i mentioned.

 

But you already have that switch. You can either dismiss them if you are really hardcore challenge person, or you can disable their abilities if you only want a moderate challenge increase, or don't bother raising their influence if you only want a slight challenge. I don't know why people like to keep overlooking the obvious solution and trying to add sliders and switches and consumable buffs.

[SamAnders]

This is a bit of a denial of the problems, other then some people thinking solo mode too easy, that companion power was causing.

 

Saying turn off abilities off is a great solution to the solo problem, I advocated for it myself, but it doesn't fix healers getting kicked out of group finder instances before they even had a chance to prove themselves because companion healers were massively outperforming players.

 

So then add something different like not allowing people to summon companions if a player is kicked, only if they leave or are disconnected.

[Satsuke]

Dude, that's literally been these forums since day one. SWTOR has one of the most toxic, insular communities I've seen. The amount of vitriol spewed during the F2P transition was especially delightful, it's almost like the remaining hardcore players/posters didn't realize that it was the last shot for the game to be successful. And that if it wasn't, it would be Warhammer'd and left in maintenance mode until the license agreement expired.

 

BioWare has done a very poor job actually "managing" this community.

[g_land]

I would agree normally but I am pretty sure we would all be better off without the guy that was so enraged and came to the forums to yell at people for being pro-nerf and then equated being pro-nerf with intentionally aborting disabled children because they were disabled... yeah that person can literally go to hell.

[Draqsko]

This is a bit of a denial of the problems, other then some people thinking solo mode too easy, that companion power was causing.

 

Saying turn off abilities off is a great solution to the solo problem, I advocated for it myself, but it doesn't fix healers getting kicked out of group finder instances before they even had a chance to prove themselves because companion healers were massively outperforming players.

 

They were getting kicked because often times they were lowbies and the people doing the kicking were max levels, all jacking into tactical flashpoints that aren't balanced for lowbies without full class abilities available at the old level of that flashpoint.

 

It had nothing to do with ability or companions being OP'd. If companions aren't OP'd, they still kick the person and then just ask for a backfill until they get a replacement they like. Companions weren't the cause, the jerks that like to speed run through tacticals are the cause.

[geschmonz]

This is a bit of a denial of the problems, other then some people thinking solo mode too easy, that companion power was causing.

 

No, its no real denial, as you just are able to turn off skills selectively as a solo player.

 

Saying turn off abilities off is a great solution to the solo problem, I advocated for it myself, but it doesn't fix healers getting kicked out of group finder instances before they even had a chance to prove themselves because companion healers were massively outperforming players.

 

Solo healers would be able to solo the content as well. Also, you just could look for a guild to help you to equip as a healer as a group healer is always needed by operation guilds.

 

Just join a guild if you play a healer. Or just ask someone for help if you arent able to complete the content. I am sure there are thousands of players that would help you then.

Edited November 21, 2015 by geschmonz

[SamAnders]

They were getting kicked because often times they were lowbies and the people doing the kicking were max levels, all jacking into tactical flashpoints that aren't balanced for lowbies without full class abilities available at the old level of that flashpoint.

 

It had nothing to do with ability or companions being OP'd. If companions aren't OP'd, they still kick the person and then just ask for a backfill until they get a replacement they like. Companions weren't the cause, the jerks that like to speed run through tacticals are the cause.

 

Hmm yes the new flashpoint system does seems like it would cause problems like this.

[Satsuke]

Hmm yes the new flashpoint system does seems like it would cause problems like this.

 

Many of the tacticals are wildly inconsistent in their tuning, with trash regularly being considerably harder than bosses and many bosses being extremely difficult without a tank/healer or properly geared max level players.

 

I was excited about FP's turning into tacticals but after a week of frequent wipes I've all but given up on them.

[The_Grand_Nagus]

I would agree normally but I am pretty sure we would all be better off without the guy that was so enraged and came to the forums to yell at people for being pro-nerf and then equated being pro-nerf with intentionally aborting disabled children because they were disabled... yeah that person can literally go to hell.

 

If someone is breaking the forums rules, then they should have the appropriate action taken against them. That is NOT what I am talking about.

[Draqsko]

Hmm yes the new flashpoint system does seems like it would cause problems like this.

 

It's a huge issue, had a level 30 sage healing me for Manaan, Ortuno was a c**kblock despite the fact she had 1800 EHPS, which is phenomenal as a level 30 really. And yet people were trying to kick her after they died once there. I went through 4 people from LFG on that one boss trying to help her get through it.

 

The only reason she did not get kicked was because I kept refusing. Finally got another 60+ in the run that had the brains to hit the heal nodes to give the lowbie a hand with healing. The rest of the run went smoothly, without dying again.

 

So you tell me where the problem is? If people assume that a lowbie can handle the healing of the FPs now, and then rage because they can't be arsed to hit a heal node once, then the issue is two fold. One the balance on the flashpoints versus people without the skills to do them, and two the fact that people can't be arsed to watch after themselves in a tactical where they can heal themselves without a healer.

[SamAnders]

Yeah, the other problem is people are too kick-happy if someone screws up even once. That's just an MMO problem, there's not really a way to fix it.

[MaximusRex]

No, its no real denial, as you just are able to turn off skills selectively as a solo player.

 

 

 

Solo healers would be able to solo the content as well. Also, you just could look for a guild to help you to equip as a healer as a group healer is always needed by operation guilds.

 

Just join a guild if you play a healer. Or just ask someone for help if you arent able to complete the content. I am sure there are thousands of players that would help you then.

 

So, you shouldn't have to group because companions are too weak, but healers should have to join a guild and find a group to help them, because companions are too good.

 

Hypocrite much?

[Reno_Tarshil]

But that kind of response is needed.

 

If you want drastic change to something that's giving someone else money, you leave and take your money elsewhere.

 

If one person does it, it won't be noticeable but if a multitude of people do, then it's more likely to be changed to try and coerce people back.

 

Continually threatening to quit does nothing because they already have your money. Quit and vote with your wallet, or stay and suck it up.

 

That's what it boils down to.

[Gorrdan]

On the plus side, most of the time when people complain about things and threaten to unsub they really don't.

 

It just so happens that this time people most likely did, to get a response that quickly.

 

Eric had absolutely no reason to ask for feedback you know that right? they could have easily ignored everything if it was just people 'looking for attention' and not actually unsubbing? but whatever helps to create an illusion that everything is fine and no one is quitting the game over this debacle.

Edited November 21, 2015 by Gorrdan

[The_Grand_Nagus]

But that kind of response is needed.

 

If you want drastic change to something that's giving someone else money, you leave and take your money elsewhere.

 

If one person does it, it won't be noticeable but if a multitude of people do, then it's more likely to be changed to try and coerce people back.

 

Continually threatening to quit does nothing because they already have your money. Quit and vote with your wallet, or stay and suck it up.

 

That's what it boils down to.

 

Completely different issue. Your point is "vote with your dollar", and I agree. If someone it not satisfied with what they are paying for, they should not pay for it. However, that is not the same thing as someone being unhappy with X change, complaining about it, then being told to leave. Not being happy with X feature is not the same thing as not being happy with the product as a whole. Life it not black and white.