And so it begins!

[NermalDetonator]

^ This attitude is going to kill the game...

 

No, new players don't "need" to do anything but have fun and enjoy their time in the game. This is not a job and they are not paid to be here.

 

The kind of player that wants to godmode to the next cut scene doesn't tend to stick around long anyways. Next they'd be ************ there's no content,.

Edited November 19, 2015 by NermalDetonator

[TX_Angel]

The game is NOT hard already

 

In your opinion... projection, not a healthy thing...

[bseefeldt]

[quote=Themanthatisi

 

Rolling companions back to Pre 4.0 and we gear them up as we like, that I would accept. That was another part of the game, I miss in a way..... I took more pride in a companion I built up.

 

Also it give me something to use all the damn CM gear I have sitting in the bank now. because most of the new companions dont allow you to put gear on them

Edited November 19, 2015 by bseefeldt

[TX_Angel]

Right... which is why I have said repeatedly that they swung the pendulum too far with this nerf. I do still believe a nerf was needed, but not to this magnitude.

 

Not sure if we want to make SWTOR into a Candy Crush model though...

 

^ Maybe not... but I'll bet it would make more money than it does now.

[ChaosIsGolden]

If those players leave because they can not beat one instance as a beginner, well, good bye.

 

Really, wow. Now peak time no idea, I don't play during those hours. But when I'm on there's usually 2 instances for Dromund Kaas, I came on same time to complete my heroics and guess what 75 people were on. That's a decrease from the usual 150 to 200 people running around at those late hours.

 

Point is if people are leaving this game well not continue, and I love the story content, pvp, and raids for this game, I'd like to see it continue into the future. Not eventually die out like SWG.

[TarKoFett]

Correct! My wife and I are PRO Nerf, we are experienced players, but NOT Elite..... I would venture to say, we are average quality for legacy 50 players.

 

New players need to learn....

 

The real issue, was the huge mistake in letting 4.0 come out with companions too OP. Was it really that hard for a Dev to notice this as an issue? Did they even test this out themselves?

 

Give a kid a lollipop, let them have a few licks than take it away..... Guess what? They will either be mad or cry.

That is EXACTLY what we are seeing now and to an extent, I understand that.

 

Fault is all in Bioware's hands on this mess....

 

My way to fix this, make the story SF (Solo version) able to recruit the necessary Alliance members, and they will NOT need to do the Heroic version. Have a separate reward/bonus for completing the Heroic version.

Rolling companions back, NO WAY!

 

Rolling companions back to Pre 4.0 and we gear them up as we like, that I would accept. That was another part of the game, I miss in a way..... I took more pride in a companion I built up.

 

What do you and your wife care about me doing my solo day/weekly rewards? I want to have fun, not become a damn swtor (a dying game) scientist.

 

New players need to learn?

So how dose it affect you if i learn how to grind that stuff or how i lvl and quest SOLO? How dose this change things for you and your Wife?

Oh right now with 4.0.2 u can be bac on that elitist attitude and say look i did this solo and that solo and me and my wife are that good and this strong and we have so much credits and so much legacy points aso.

 

But in an MMO you should feel sory for those who retuned BECAUSE of the 4.0 changes which where made, and one of the biggest was the 4.0 companions, which provided in a fun and enjoyable time while playing this game. Now its back to where it always was and i cant understand how stronger companins which could be manualy nerfed down by yourself did interrupt your enjoyment?

 

I enjoyed this game in 4.0 the first time and i had a lot of fun, but now the fun is gone and the only thing left is pain and grind eaven while doing solo story, everything that is a worster expirience than 4.0 will provide that feeling.

 

Honestly what was it that you could not accept that new and returning players had fun in this game for the first time without having to do a good damn examn on the clas they want play at first.

 

Maybe you and your Wife can answear me this?

[TX_Angel]

The kind of player that wants to godmode to the next cut scene doesn't tend to stick around long anyways. Next they'd be ************ there's no content,.

 

I don't agree... people play simple games for years...

 

I've been here since v1.1 (missed launch by a few weeks)...

 

And I want my old companion back, overpowered and all, I was having fun...

[bseefeldt]

Yeah I don't get the whole let them leave they suck attitude, lol who else are you going to kill in open world pvp lol J/K

[Rhoulicas]

I'm a casualer; I got to 65 in 2 days post expansion release and I haven't even attempted a SF heroic yet. I'm not even sure how to start one. There is so much to do; after finishing all the chapters, my favorite part was getting Qyzen Fess and M1-4x. Indeed, just finding the mobs and figuring out what the little holographic representation was beside Qyzen was interesting as well. I think the new companion nerf just made it a little more challenging, but it definitely hasn't slowed me down. And I suck at this game, just ask all the imperials who kicked my butt trying to earn M1-4X's favor. Edited November 19, 2015 by Rhoulicas

[TarKoFett]

The issue is the way the rewards work, not the OP companions. I, "we" think the rewards for the solo version should be equal to what the Heroic version has now, and add something else for the Heroic version for those who desire to have harder content, like a bonus/reward for doing it in Heroic.

 

They can also reduce the grind by making Alliances LEGACY-WIDE.... That is the real issue.

 

Then why dont u addres those points instead of telling ppl to learn to play instead of have fun playing and learn. U dont like the rewards than go into feedback forums and tell them u dont like them, u think its to grindy then go tel its to grindy but HOW ON EARTH did nerfing companions sole those problems plzt be honest?

[monsterfurby]

Star Fortress heroics are meant to be challenging - fine.

 

But I've had three people drop from my guild because they simple do not have the time to ever finish one now. Maybe during the weekends, but with a game that's mainly a weekday evening distraction for them, that's very unlikely to happen. If these were short, challenging dungeons, everything would be fine, but why won't people understand that this is about time required to beat them not about challenge?

[Jamtas]

Star Fortress heroics are meant to be challenging - fine.

 

But I've had three people drop from my guild because they simple do not have the time to ever finish one now. Maybe during the weekends, but with a game that's mainly a weekday evening distraction for them, that's very unlikely to happen. If these were short, challenging dungeons, everything would be fine, but why won't people understand that this is about time required to beat them not about challenge?

 

Out of curiousity, did these people complete SF Heroic before patch?

 

If so, I think this is another case of the having it taken away striking. That was the issue I had with the size of the nerf so quickly. Huge system shock and can be viewed as unfair to be able to do something and have it taken away.

[Themanthatisi]

Then why dont u addres those points instead of telling ppl to learn to play instead of have fun playing and learn. U dont like the rewards than go into feedback forums and tell them u dont like them, u think its to grindy then go tel its to grindy but HOW ON EARTH did nerfing companions sole those problems plzt be honest?

 

I t will not solve all the problems, but OP companions are ALSO a problem.... I offered a possible way to help with that, for the people that need to do those Heroics....

 

You offer no ideas except having OP companions. Get creative on ideas so EVERYONE can be happy. They can even tinker with the Nerf, but they were too OP as it stood.

 

But to make the game child's play punished the people that DID take the time to learn, level up and gear up, as well as get their prestige stats up. This is coming from a person that is NOT elite, just someone that invested time, lots of it.

Edited November 19, 2015 by Themanthatisi

[monsterfurby]

Out of curiousity, did these people complete SF Heroic before patch?

 

If so, I think this is another case of the having it taken away striking. That was the issue I had with the size of the nerf so quickly. Huge system shock and can be viewed as unfair to be able to do something and have it taken away.

 

Oh, absolutely. I wouldn't mind it so much if they had scaled it down step by step to find a sweet spot - that's actually what we all (in the guild) were expecting. The nerf itself isn't really the issue either and wouldn't have been a problem if the instances in question were random Flashpoints, but if you have only so much time to spend on doing missions like these, and if these missions are presented as crucial to the story (because the SF are worked into the Fallen Empire storyline), once a certain threshold of time-requirement is passed, you miss out on something that feels like it's essential.

[bseefeldt]

Oh, absolutely. I wouldn't mind it so much if they had scaled it down step by step to find a sweet spot - that's actually what we all (in the guild) were expecting. The nerf itself isn't really the issue either and wouldn't have been a problem if the instances in question were random Flashpoints, but if you have only so much time to spend on doing missions like these, and if these missions are presented as crucial to the story (because the SF are worked into the Fallen Empire storyline), once a certain threshold of time-requirement is passed, you miss out on something that feels like it's essential.

 

May I ask are you on a low pop server because that stings even worse, I should know I'm on bastion server.

[Jamtas]

May I ask are you on a low pop server because that stings even worse, I should know I'm on bastion server.

 

Yay! Bastion in the HOUSE!!!!

[Avalyssia]

Oh, absolutely. I wouldn't mind it so much if they had scaled it down step by step to find a sweet spot - that's actually what we all (in the guild) were expecting. The nerf itself isn't really the issue either and wouldn't have been a problem if the instances in question were random Flashpoints, but if you have only so much time to spend on doing missions like these, and if these missions are presented as crucial to the story (because the SF are worked into the Fallen Empire storyline), once a certain threshold of time-requirement is passed, you miss out on something that feels like it's essential.

 

And that's the problem. They could probably work around this by making the solo Star Fortress a full clear Exarch and all instead of up to Emphemeris (or however you spell it) without the achievements and rewards.

Edited November 19, 2015 by Avalyssia

[IanArgent]

Straight from a gold post trying to defend their nerf.

 

Fact is that a very well geared PT DPS is screwed in many spots now... you have few DCDs worth a damn and no way to even get aggro back from your healer... erm... if you can call it a healer. They seem to still gain the same aggro they did with their old insane heals.

 

I'm sure you care about context, right?

 

That's a rough one - the PT does't have any off-healing, and if they can't taunt, then they can't off-tank either.

 

This touches on a complaint I have about game design (and I had a complaint about this prior to 4.0). There are certain classes that can complete a partial tactical trinity with a companion, because they can act as a backup healer or tank, and there are some that can't. I'm assuming that a PT can't change stance to tank the way a Guardian or an Inquisitor can. IMO there is a real problem with the DPS/DPS advanced classes (Sentinel and whatever the med armor Sith Warrior is called, and the Gunslinger/sniper), and if the PT can't change stance to a tank and run a comp healer, then that's also problem.

 

All classes/advanced classes can do damage. Not all of them can taunt, and not all of them can heal other people. Some of them can't even self-heal very effectively. That's a game-design flaw, IMO. Each advanced class should be able to fill the backup role of the other role that their AC can fill; and set the comp to the non-DPS role that they player is not filling.

[TarKoFett]

I t will not solve all the problems, but OP companions are ALSO a problem.... I offered a possible way to help with that some for the people that need to do those Heroics....

 

You offer no ideas except having OP companions. Get creative on ideas so EVERYONE can be happy.

 

But to make the game child's play punished the people that DID take the time to learn, level up and gear up, as well as get their prestige stats up. This is coming from a person that is NOT elite, just someone that invested time, lots of it.

 

I dont care if you are elite or not, i had fun as many others with 4.0 companions, i did not ask for changes, i am not payed to create gameplay ideas for devs sorry. All i can give as feedback is, that 4.0 was advertised as an update addressing players like me, who want to enjoy the game the story and do some day/weekly rewards SOLO.

 

Again, how did op companions affect you while playing, you could have send them away set them on passive or even turn off some of their skills, only letting them heal with the first healing skill.

U still dont answear that question.

But let me tell u how it affects me, i have to grind through stuff i dont want to grind through anymore.

I want to play all the classes for the storys behind them not for the mastery of them, oh and if you try to explain me that time and effort which you speend in the past is the reason for your oppinion then let me ask you did you ever ask for automated upgrade of your gear with new lvl cap?

 

I dont care about the time you invested in achieving something, and if you had fun doing that that thats fine i guess, but i did not have the fun back then and stoped playing. Now with 4.0 i HAD fun playing this game and being free in the decision of which companion i want to have with me and not to being forced to gear them up the same way as i have to gear up myself aso. I didint care if my companion was strong in healing or did to much damage, because my companion would never force me like another player would to rush through content or to wait for 30 min or to get viped because he decides to go afk midfight. Me and my companion in 4.0 where the perfect team for having fun doing some quests here some story there, and even helping out in a fp when someone decided to leave because of whatever reasons. What did BW expect throwing in 4 dd's into a dungeon with no exp. in how to clear stuff with 4 dd's but ques what when 2 left we could somehow manage to kill the boss with a tank and a heal companion somehow, not ez not facerol not in 1 try but somehow we did and fellt happy to have at least an emergancy optioon for the cases that someone quits.

Now its all back to old business BW only delivering to ppl like you.

 

Again im not Payed to solve the dilema BW brought in with 4.0.2, all i can say is i subed after testing 4.0 as prefered and i liked the changes, now i dont like them anymore and the consequence for me is clear.

 

Hope you and your fellas will have fun whit all that challenge you asked for, lets hope it dose not end up like Wildstar and their HC challenge.

Honestly you cry about day/weekly grind quest to be too EZ and that for u destroy the whole casual players experience while questing and leveling and enjoying the story.

WHO GIVES A DAMN THING ABOUT MY COMPANION HEALING ME BETTER THAN A LVL 65 PLAYER WHILE IM SOLO QUESTING DOING THE STORY ON MY ALTS? WHO?

WHY DO U CARE?

[IanArgent]

The grind of Alliance makes heroics perfect for that, except now that our companions are nerfed to nothing, only the low level planets are worth bothering with.

 

Thanks to level sync and the companion nerf, the top half of the planet list is now not worth the time to run. Can I clear Voss? Yes. Is it worth the trouble? No.

 

That is the problem.

 

Actually, the difficulty curve on heroics is kind of nice. If I want to smash things with a lightsaber, I can go to the Prologue/Chap 1 planetary heroics. A little more challenge, step up to the Chap 2 planetary heroics, etc. (Though the Alderaan heroics in the old bonus series should be counted against the Chap 3 difficulty - they are rather annoyingly difficult due to the mob density).

 

There needs to be more smooth difficulty curves in the game, not less.

[robertthebard]

That's a rough one - the PT does't have any off-healing, and if they can't taunt, then they can't off-tank either.

 

This touches on a complaint I have about game design (and I had a complaint about this prior to 4.0). There are certain classes that can complete a partial tactical trinity with a companion, because they can act as a backup healer or tank, and there are some that can't. I'm assuming that a PT can't change stance to tank the way a Guardian or an Inquisitor can. IMO there is a real problem with the DPS/DPS advanced classes (Sentinel and whatever the med armor Sith Warrior is called, and the Gunslinger/sniper), and if the PT can't change stance to a tank and run a comp healer, then that's also problem.

 

All classes/advanced classes can do damage. Not all of them can taunt, and not all of them can heal other people. Some of them can't even self-heal very effectively. That's a game-design flaw, IMO. Each advanced class should be able to fill the backup role of the other role that their AC can fill; and set the comp to the non-DPS role that they player is not filling.

 

They can swap out, if you have field respec, or do it before you go in, but, it's likely they won't have the gear to take advantage of doing so. It essentially requires you to have two sets of gear, one for DPS, one for Tank, because if you don't have a shield, you're not going to benefit from the toggle. You may be able to skimp on the endurance set, but I'm not sure how much good it would do you. I'm also not sure how many HP you'd pick up just from the swap, to know how necessary having full tanking gear would be, but you will, no matter what, need to have a shield, because you won't be getting any shield procs w/out one.

[IanArgent]

They can swap out, if you have field respec, or do it before you go in, but, it's likely they won't have the gear to take advantage of doing so. It essentially requires you to have two sets of gear, one for DPS, one for Tank, because if you don't have a shield, you're not going to benefit from the toggle. You may be able to skimp on the endurance set, but I'm not sure how much good it would do you. I'm also not sure how many HP you'd pick up just from the swap, to know how necessary having full tanking gear would be, but you will, no matter what, need to have a shield, because you won't be getting any shield procs w/out one.

 

I run a Vig Guardian, which is a DPS spec of Guardian. Outside of group content that I queue as tank for, I don't generally bother changing anything but my off-hand when I decide to tank, and I don't always bother to change out the off-hand. (That was pre 4.0 as well). I haven't started KotFE on that character, but I have been grinding heroics for money and crates (I have a Consular Healer doing the Alliance Grind right now). Unless it's a boss fight, changing gear isn't necessary. And if it is a boss fight, well, I do carry a shield generator that's at the same gear level as my DPS gear, and a full set of tank gear one tier back (I chose the tank gear rewards from Ziost rather than the DSP-mode, because I was at the comms limit at the time).

 

I'm in the middle of levelling an Assassin, and same deal - I am DPS spec, but carry a shield, just in case. (That char is an artificer, so I can crank out 2 off-hands almost as easily as one while levelling, this isn't a concern at end-game, of course).

 

I'm not as happy with my Operative's off-healing, but I'm not as happy with my operative as a whole - I wasn't expecting a melee/positional class, and I find the operative heal role to be at cross-purposes with what you have to do to DPS. I doubt I'm going to bother alliance grinding there, and I'm not totally sure I'm going to do KotFE at all; or even progress past chap 3 and the tick box for having finished an agent.

 

As for my merc, I haven't played that char since 4.0 dropped