Companion Change Feedback

[DarthEnrique]

I've always had hopes for this game and began playing shortly after launch.

With 4.0, I had worries for the game ( which I love want to see do well).

 

I'm fine with level sync, see benefits to it, I like it, I am used to it from GW2. 80 of the 83 people in the guild I belong to hated GW2 level sync and quit. They quit within days of learning that level sync was not an option in swtor. I tried to persuade them that it would be OK, but they simply have no interest whatsoever in it.

 

So, I got spooked. 80 people gone in a weeks time, as they learned of the change. They are not forum visitors generally. It took a little time for the news to spread.

 

4.0 hits, and I see a lot of people playing. I am relieved. it attracted a decent number of players. I generally enjoy what was done in 4.0; I 'm happy and got 3 new people to join.

 

4.0.2.comes.

 

I am the only person left in guild. The other guild members, which includes the guild master, said forget it. I had brought in 3 new people to the game and got them in guild. All, save for myself, are now gone.

 

I play less since I play other games more now. Why? My friends from swtor (with whom I play some other games) are all gone. 100% gone.

 

Now, I am really worried.

 

I cannot argue with them. When a healer companion does less healing than off heals from a dps character, I cannot tell them they are imagining things. I see it for myself. They hate, totally hate, what was done. They are gone for good. This, I know some will say, is good for the game. I cannot see it, personally.

 

They were not here to impress people with how awesome their gaming skills are. They were not here for some sort of competition. They were not here to justify their existence by slogging through tedious, miserable daily chores in a game ( that is what it became for them, a tedious chore). They were here for fun in a star wars environment. They did not do HM FPs or Ops. They did not do PVP. They had no interest in these things.

 

They did not ask for FPs or OPs be nerfed in difficulty. Whether they were ( to use the internet cool guy low-brow slang) "bads" or not is of no consequence. They played solo or with each other. They were not in anyone's group or warzone "ruining things" for anyone. And would be kicked at any rate if they were perceived to be so anyway.

 

Now they do not play at all. They don't pay anything into the game. The final few who left may still be subbed technically as their subs may still not have run out. But they are done and subs will not be renewed.

 

This is magically supposed to be beneficial to the game. While it will certainly bolster the egos of self styled "pro gamers", it diminishes the wallets at BW.

 

The game will likely survive, but who knows? Will it slowly decay and dry up? I'd like to see it thrive, not just survive. I think it's a very cool game. I'm perfectly willing to allow people to have easy fun. If I want things hard, there are Ops etc. It's no skin off my back to have people happy with a smooth daily experience in leveling and daily/weekly quests. This, apparently, is a heinous crime.

 

In the end , I simply do not see this as a positive thing. In particular, I find it baffling that healer companions doing less than off heals from a dps toon is considered "fine". I play healers in the game (with rare exception) so it is of little consequence to me, but the healing from companions is truly pathetic now. If they'd at least correct healing stance for companions, some damage could be undone here.

 

I doubt it will happen though, and I hate to see a game I love suffer for such absurd reasons. They deal is done, I do not see them changing it, and we'll have to live with whatever the fallout is.

 

You know, normally I'd be on swtor tonight. But, all my friends are in other games we play, and they need a healer. That, is where I will be. it does make me a bit sad. I will still come here for my stars wars "fix". But not nearly as much. None of my friends will, though.

O_O a whole guild wow!

[StarMagus]

I just had a horrible thought:

 

If as many people are leaving as they claim (and for the sake of this argument, say they all do/did) all this will prove to EA and Bioware is that KotFE was a failure and they will ash can the story after Season One ends. That's really going to suck because now, story wise, I'll never know what happened to a lot of my favorite companions (if they aren't slated to show up in Season One). As someone who enjoys this game for the story and as someone who is very invested in my companions, this thought makes me unbelievably sad. Like "Firefly got cancelled" sad, except Firefly, at least, got a movie to wrap things up. KotFE probably won't (ETA: have any sort of wrap up. Not thinking KotFE would get a movie to wrap things up. Needed to clarify that.).

 

 

 

I'll give you a hint. They ded. By the time Star Wars comes out nobody is talking about the "Eternal Empire" or the "Outlander" or even Revan. Everybody dies, and nobody leaves a mark on the Galaxy that lasts to the current time line. In the end.. we weren't special snow flakes after all.

[AngFour]

I'll give you a hint. They ded. By the time Star Wars comes out nobody is talking about the "Eternal Empire" or the "Outlander" or even Revan. Everybody dies, and nobody leaves a mark on the Galaxy that lasts to the current time line. In the end.. we weren't special snow flakes after all.

 

Except I don't care about the current timeline, I care about The Old Republic's timeline and I want to know how THAT story goes. I know in the end everyone dies, but the journey is the interesting part.

 

Smart alec

[Neoforcer]

O_O a whole guild wow!

 

 

There more then one guild that has done this and still eric and company remain silent it go away just give it a few days as the number of player drop like a brick

 

 

The Harbinger (PvE) ø 1.61

The Red Eclipse (PvE) ø 1.59

The Shadowlands (PvE) ø 1.56

T3-M4 (PvE) ø 1.55

Jedi Covenant (PvE) ø 1.55

 

harb was at 2.0 tuesday

red eclips was at 189 tuesday

the shadowland 1.86

t3 1.67

JC 1.69

Harb is no longer full what that tell you day after day theses number are falling do some thing BW before you have to announce game shut downs send out appolagy emails to people letting them know a time frame fix you don't have weeks or days...

Edited November 20, 2015 by Neoforcer

[Robocles]

Gotta love this move in particular... ask for feedback... ignore it then... Oh Noes! It's Thanksgiving week in the US... sorry... we'll get back to you after the holiday.

[caronome]

True story:

 

Expansion came out. Went through KotFE. Was doing a hero mission with my main. Senya was the companion, with somewhere in the mid-20s in influence.

 

Was approaching a mob when the phone rang. Answered the phone and, out of curiosity, ordered Senya to attack. I chat on the phone, never touching the keyboard again.

 

She wiped out the whole mob in minutes -- in healer stance.

 

There is no debate that a companion nerf was needed. The only debate was how much and — not bragging, just being candid — I still haven't had an 61ish alt with an anemic companion die in a hero mob fight yet. Granted, I'm not leveling up any low-level alts, but if I were I'd be sticking to class missions anyway.

 

So why is there no debate that a companion nerf was needed? What great social or moral injustice is committed if people who are here for the story/IP have an easy or even trivial experience with a companion out? Companions aren't used in any ePeen content anyway and tbf if you care about epeen you should probably be playing another game. Certainly not a game that has an new expansion with zero new ops or bgs.

[Imadian]

Gotta love this move in particular... ask for feedback... ignore it then... Oh Noes! It's Thanksgiving week in the US... sorry... we'll get back to you after the holiday.

 

I forgot about the holiday...we are screwed.

[Jackosaur]

My feedback.

 

I can still do everything I did before the patch just as easily after.

 

However, I'm a 65 who has plenty of bufss/presence etc and has been playing at a NiM/HM raid level for basically the whole life of the game.

 

Therefore I am a poor candidate by which to balance.

 

Ergo, you may have swung the nerf bat a tad hard for the bulk of the game population.

[Kaytrine]

Please give us your feedback, and we simply ask you to be as constructive as possible. Include information such as:

• Your level
  
• Roughly Average Item Rating
  
• Discipline
  
• Companion
  
• Companion role
  
• Companion Influence level
  
• Which Mission or Star Fortress are you playing (Solo Mode? Heroic Mode?)
  
• Your personal experience while playing this content
  

If you have a video or other related content to go with your feedback, feel free to link that as well as it will allow us the best insight into your experiences.

 

The team will be reviewing all feedback, along with supporting data, to see what / if any future adjustments need to be made. Thank you all in advance for your feedback!

 

-eric

 

• Your level
  - 65
  
• Roughly Average Item Rating
  - 208 PVP gear with 0 Accuracy
  
• Discipline
  - Madness/Lightning
  
• Companion
  - Treek
  
• Companion role
  - Healer
  
• Companion Influence level
  - 0 influence (level 1)
  
• Which Mission or Star Fortress are you playing (Solo Mode? Heroic Mode?)
  - Heroic 2+
  
• Your personal experience while playing this content
  - Didn't have a problem. I got the 'The one and only' achievement prior to 4.0.2, but was also capable of completing H2+ Star Fortress without the terminal buff solo with my level 1 Treek companion set to heals. Didn't die a single time. It took longer due to down time between pulls, but it wasn't significant.
   
  Having said that, I believe Sorcs have a much easier time with this nerf due to our ability to self heal and 'kite' the exarch boss. For melee classes, I believe I'll have a much harder experience.
  

Edited November 20, 2015 by Kaytrine

[Exly]

•Your level - 65

•Roughly Average Item Rating -

 

208 comms armor with 186 augments

208 ears and implants with 208 augments

186 crafted relics with 186 aurments

220 crafted main hand with 208 augment

208 comms off hand, no augment

 

•Discipline - Infiltration shadow

•Companion - Nadia

•Companion role - Heals

•Companion Influence level - 31

•Which Mission or Star Fortress are you playing (Solo Mode? Heroic Mode?) - Star fortress h2+

 

•Your personal experience while playing this content

 

Completing this mission was certainly more of a challenge than before the companion nerf.

 

Trash mobs with silver or less npcs were no problem.

 

Gold mobs were noticeably more difficult. Heath remaining at the end of fights would range from 15 to 20%. fights required use of bubble, stuns and other defensive measures. They were doable, but seemed harder than they needed to be.

 

Tried Tress Perion three times, and failed on each attempt. I used everything that I could think of (including the Oggurobb healing thing), but I was only able to get this guy down to about 40% health in the third fight (after deciding to us a "Prototype Anodyne Versatile Stim") before dying. Since doing this guy was optional I decided that I would need more skill, better gear, or better healing from my companion to defeat this guy, so I just gave up trying (heavy sigh).

 

The rest of the fights went pretty much as expected, I died twice in the second sun generator room, but was lucky that I picked up one of the energy draining devices before dying the second time. so I used that right away on the Exarch after respawning, and I picked up another device before leaving that room that allowed me to get a good jump on things in the third room.

 

The final fight with the Exarch was pretty much what you would expect. A lot of kiting, using all defensive abilities, the Oggurobb healing device and the Hylo Visz grenade, and eventually finished the fight with about 10% health remaining. I would have used the Aygo turret or the Sana-Rae cube, but I did not have enough influence with either of them to obtain those devices.

 

In short. It was possible to complete this mission, but as I stated in my response for my commando I did feel like the healing from my companion was below what it should have been (approx. 1.5k to 2.2k EHPS), and I think if the output would have bee in the 3k to 4k range that I could have cleared all of the content, and would not have had to give up on the one fight that I could not complete.

 

Note: I still find it difficult to retrieve shields and energy draining devices off of the fallen droids. The problem is that the droids are difficult to target so that I get the symbol letting me know that I can loot them. In many cases I have to reposition my character, my camera angle, or both in order to be able to loot them, and that can prevent me from engaging the npcs in the instance for 1 to 2 global cooldowns, and in fights as closely choreographed as these are, I find that this adds an unnecessary amount of difficulty to the mission at hand.

[Robocles]

My feedback.

 

I can still do everything I did before the patch just as easily after.

 

However, I'm a 65 who has plenty of bufss/presence etc and has been playing at a NiM/HM raid level for basically the whole life of the game.

 

Therefore I am a poor candidate by which to balance.

 

Ergo, you may have swung the nerf bat a tad hard for the bulk of the game population.

 

I've done much of the same... but I decided to use my PT dps this xpac... and now I'm screwed with heals (with all but 4 presence unlocks) with both Lana at 27 and Lokin at 39. If there are multiple elites they grab aggro and die...period... and, while I love the mechanics of the PT... we have no option for real CC or off heals... my sorc, in gaer 30 ilvl less breezes thru... but, of course, he can heal.

 

The way they did it is what people are pissed off about... it was completely silent until the dataminers discovered the real numbers and started an uproar even BEFORE the patch... leading to EM's original post about the nerf. Then the actual nerf hits, and your comp is healing you for 300-350 per tic when you have nearly 80k of health? That's bullspit.

[Vaalin]

Your level: 65

Roughly Average Item Rating: Mix of 216/220 and a few 224

Discipline: Vigilance Guardian

Companion: Lana

Companion role: Healer

Companion Influence level: 36

Which Mission or Star Fortress are you playing (Solo Mode? Heroic Mode?) Heroic

Your personal experience while playing this content

 

I know that people expect to have things spoon fed to them no without challenge but this is getting out of hand. I wandered into a Heroic Star Fortress and then proceeded to dismantle the flashpoint. I died once at the first part of the Exarch phase because I was stupid and got distracted by real life for a moment. Otherwise I blew through the content, using my abilities as they were meant to be used and knowing how to play to my classes strengths. Edit: I should note that I did not use a health stim nor any of these gadgets that I'm hearing about.

Edited November 20, 2015 by Vaalin

[DarthEnrique]

There more then one guild that has done this and still eric and company remain silent it go away just give it a few days as the number of player drop like a brick

 

 

The Harbinger (PvE) ø 1.61

The Red Eclipse (PvE) ø 1.59

The Shadowlands (PvE) ø 1.56

T3-M4 (PvE) ø 1.55

Jedi Covenant (PvE) ø 1.55

 

harb was at 2.0 tuesday

red eclips was at 189 tuesday

the shadowland 1.86

t3 1.67

JC 1.69

Harb is no longer full what that tell you day after day theses number are falling do some thing BW before you have to announce game shut downs send out appolagy emails to people letting them know a time frame fix you don't have weeks or days...

Well, looks like Bioware just killed their first MMO by making this grave error. We may have to say goodbye to TOR and never get to see the ending of KOTFE all because of their **** up...

[Neoforcer]

There spending more time on twitter with what is your fave companion post then to bother posting here i will tell you this they go all weekend with out a word they will have people with lightsaber and torches by monday

[DarthEnrique]

I forgot about the holiday...we are screwed.

 

They purposely killed TOR...

[thewatcheruatu]

Well, I'll add some feedback, I suppose. I haven't actually played any of my level 65 characters since the nerf. It feels as though most people are speaking from the perspective of going back and smashing mid-level heroics with a geared out character that has access to all of its abilities and utility points. Useful feedback, but there is, of course, another part to the game: the leveling experience.

 

I picked up a level 30 bounty hunter I had left sitting around from a while ago. Powertech tank, so you know she's not annihilating mobs on her own. My initial thought was that tank + healer would be the way to go--like, I'd never see my character's health drop below 95%. Obviously, that wasn't the case.

 

I've leveled to 48 over the past few days, and I've tried switching companion role to healer periodically, but the heals truly are complete weaksauce, and the result is that my tank actually ends most fights having taken just as much--if not more--damage with a healer companion as she does when using a DPS companion. The only difference, really, is that fights with a DPS companion are finished in about 1/3 of the time as with a healer companion.

 

I would say that 99% of the time, the DPS companion option is the only option. I mean, that's fine--it's how I always played, honestly, but I will say that healers are at least subjectively worse than they've ever been in my experience. Sadly, I don't have the numbers to back that up. The problem, to be clear, is that they do little to no damage and fairly pathetic heals, so your character ends up taking a lot more overall damage than when using a DPS companion that is capable of annihilating enemy NPCs before they can do much of anything.

 

As to the tank role for companions, I've never, ever used it. Ever. On any character of any role. I can't speak to its effectiveness one way or the other.

Edited November 20, 2015 by thewatcheruatu

[Robocles]

• Your level
  - 65
  
• Roughly Average Item Rating
  - 208 PVP gear with 0 Accuracy
  
• Discipline
  - Madness/Lightning
  
• Companion
  - Treek
  
• Companion role
  - Healer
  
• Companion Influence level
  - 0 influence (level 1)
  
• Which Mission or Star Fortress are you playing (Solo Mode? Heroic Mode?)
  - Heroic 2+
  
• Your personal experience while playing this content
  - Didn't have a problem. I got the 'The one and only' achievement prior to 4.0.2, but was also capable of completing H2+ Star Fortress without the terminal buff solo with my level 1 Treek companion set to heals. Didn't die a single time. It took longer due to down time between pulls, but it wasn't significant.
   
  Having said that, I believe Sorcs have a much easier time with this nerf due to our ability to self heal and 'kite' the exarch boss. For melee classes, I believe I'll have a much harder experience.
  

 

Yeah... I really feel like an idiot for focusing on my DPS PT instead of my Sorc... I would have a much easier time.

 

Sadly... they can chew me if they think I'm just going to grind another toon, or respec to tank so that I can re run "content" I ran for 4 years.

 

It was a nice ride.

[Canareth]

I don't understand. If the 4.2 changes were based on Bioware's metrics, then why the need for any information whatsoever from the playerbase?

 

Shouldn't your internal metrics detail the exact difficulty of every Heroic in the game? With breakdowns by class & specialization and some sort of +- by influence and gear?

 

If your metrics didn't detail this precise info... then what exactly did you base your companion nerf on?

 

MMOs can never simulate what large numbers of players do. Even internal test is pretty useless. Mathematically - as in, played to a high % of mathematical potential - the prior companions were massively overpowered and the current ones are close to correct. 4.0.2 are too unforgiving for medium armor, no healing characters, but otherwise okay.

 

How people are actuly doing/approaching it needs large scale evaluation.

[Robocles]

Well, I'll add some feedback, I suppose. I haven't actually played any of my level 65 characters since the nerf. It feels as though most people are speaking from the perspective of going back and smashing mid-level heroics with a geared out character that has access to all of its abilities and utility points. Useful feedback, but there is, of course, another part to the game: the leveling experience.

 

I picked up a level 30 bounty hunter I had left sitting around from a while ago. Powertech tank, so you know she's not annihilating mobs on her own. My initial thought was that tank + healer would be the way to go--like, I'd never see my character's health drop below 95%. Obviously, that wasn't the case.

 

I've leveled to 48 over the past few days, and I've tried switching companion role to healer periodically, but the heals truly are complete weaksauce, and the result is that my tank actually ends most fights having taken just as much--if not more--damage with a healer companion as she does when using a DPS companion. The only difference, really, is that fights with a DPS companion are finished in about 1/3 of the time as with a healer companion.

 

I would say that 99% of the time, the DPS companion option is the only option. I mean, that's fine--it's how I always played, honestly, but I will say that healers are at least subjectively worse than they've ever been in my experience. Sadly, I don't have the numbers to back that up. The problem, to be clear, is that they do little to no damage and fairly pathetic heals, so your character ends up taking a lot more overall damage than when using a DPS companion that is capable of annihilating enemy NPCs before they can do much of anything.

 

As to the tank role, I've never, ever used it. Ever. On any character of any role. I can't speak to its effectiveness one way or the other.

 

Leveling as a tank was always slowest... but was always the way to never die. I have 2 tanks... I don't want to respec my DPS toon to that just so I can grind alliance rep and influence.

 

You shouldn't have to give them numbers or even what your "experience" is for them to realize they screwed up here.

 

Hell, even their beloved and exalted "metrics" can't be this bad.

 

Ummm... can they?

[Robocles]

MMOs can never simulate what large numbers of players do. Even internal test is pretty useless. Mathematically - as in, played to a high % of mathematical potential - the prior companions were massively overpowered and the current ones are close to correct. 4.0.2 are too unforgiving for medium armor, no healing characters, but otherwise okay.

 

How people are actuly doing/approaching it needs large scale evaluation.

 

>>>> points to their supposed Public Test Server.

[Kaytrine]

Yeah... I really feel like an idiot for focusing on my DPS PT instead of my Sorc... I would have a much easier time.

 

Sadly... they can chew me if they think I'm just going to grind another toon, or respec to tank so that I can re run "content" I ran for 4 years.

 

It was a nice ride.

 

Hey, at least DPS PTs are FOTM right now for PVP =)

[Canareth]

• Your level
  - 65
  
• Roughly Average Item Rating
  - 208 PVP gear with 0 Accuracy
  
• Discipline
  - Madness/Lightning
  
• Companion
  - Treek
  
• Companion role
  - Healer
  
• Companion Influence level
  - 0 influence (level 1)
  
• Which Mission or Star Fortress are you playing (Solo Mode? Heroic Mode?)
  - Heroic 2+
  
• Your personal experience while playing this content
  - Didn't have a problem. I got the 'The one and only' achievement prior to 4.0.2, but was also capable of completing H2+ Star Fortress without the terminal buff solo with my level 1 Treek companion set to heals. Didn't die a single time. It took longer due to down time between pulls, but it wasn't significant.
   
  Having said that, I believe Sorcs have a much easier time with this nerf due to our ability to self heal and 'kite' the exarch boss. For melee classes, I believe I'll have a much harder experience.
  

 

Concur with this. Sorcerer has all kinds of advantages to chain together and minimize the time anything can actually beat on you. Ideally, most trash pulls barely touch them and Knights spend most of their time chasing them and barely getting through shield in time for the next shield.

 

Ideally.

 

That's not what this should be tuned around.

Edited November 20, 2015 by Canareth

[Darkbloom]

Yeah... I really feel like an idiot for focusing on my DPS PT instead of my Sorc... I would have a much easier time.

 

Sadly... they can chew me if they think I'm just going to grind another toon, or respec to tank so that I can re run "content" I ran for 4 years.

 

It was a nice ride.

 

The difference is truly incredible. I have two L65 characters, a Vanguard and a Sage.

 

On my DPS sage I can solo Heroic Star Fortress with no alliance buffs, no gadgets, and no heroic moment. I can kill any exarch or paladin with no companion whatsoever. The only thing I need the companion for is the reactor room. I usually roll through the whole star fortress with companion in DPS mode.

 

On my Vanguard I cannot solo Heroic SF at all. Period. Full stop.

 

I guess if I got raid gear and really learned how to use the alliance gadgets properly I could do it. But I don't even feel like leveling my Vanguard's Alliances on each of the guys to 10 anyway. So that's that.

[Robocles]

MMOs can never simulate what large numbers of players do. Even internal test is pretty useless. Mathematically - as in, played to a high % of mathematical potential - the prior companions were massively overpowered and the current ones are close to correct. 4.0.2 are too unforgiving for medium armor, no healing characters, but otherwise okay.

 

How people are actuly doing/approaching it needs large scale evaluation.

 

And... that is demonstrably false... my medium armor Marauder (with his plethora of CDs to use) is in much better shape with this than my heavy armor PT (who is in 216+ gear all slots with 208 augs). It has nothing to do with armor... it has to do with the mechanics of how the class plays, and how it relies on outside help to survive certain encounters.

 

Please, show me how, mathematically, the current ones are close to correct?

[Robocles]

The difference is truly incredible. I have two L65 characters, a Vanguard and a Sage.

 

On my DPS sage I can solo Heroic Star Fortress with no alliance buffs, no gadgets, and no heroic moment. I can kill any exarch or paladin with no companion whatsoever. The only thing I need the companion for is the reactor room. I usually roll through the whole star fortress with companion in DPS mode.

 

On my Vanguard I cannot solo Heroic SF at all. Period. Full stop.

 

I guess if I got raid gear and really learned how to use the alliance gadgets properly I could do it. But I don't even feel like leveling my Vanguard's Alliances on each of the guys to 10 anyway. So that's that.

 

I feel your pain on your Vanguard... my PT is geared pretty damn well... and it's just a joke now.