Companion Changes in 4.0.2

[Ghisallo]

A few people are doing it. With certain professions, specializations, uber level gear and quite high influence and even then it's far from easy. Especially if you're a ranged character you have a bit easier road.

 

Well "uber" is subjective, I did it with no raid set piece gear BUT admittedly everything but ears and relics being at least 208 however, I did do it melee. Also you kinda make my point. When the devs say "we want this to be more challenging" that means experience wil vary. I may need more gear than you or more presence, whatever, because no two players are alike. Some can do the perfect rotation unconscious and others maybe don't even know what the correct rotation is. Some use keybinds and/or a gaming mouse, others are "clickers". One class may be better suited to the encounters since people wanted variety.

 

When you want something to be any degree of a challenge in a video game the speed at which you progress and when you are ready to leap the next hurdle will vary player to player and class to class.

[Deathsightofhell]

Tank companions didn't get a huge hit.

 

I started Cyber Mercenaries on Voss with rank 10 Iresso but half way through I decided to check how well companion with very low influence would survive in tank mode.

 

Rank 1 Akk Dog in tanking mode, last boss:

 

I'm not a good player (some even say I'm the worst MMO player ever).

 

not Trying sound rude, but you didn't read the patch notes did you? they buffed tank on agro control , but they clearly stated thy Nerfed Healers and DPS companions , so your going see how much different with healers , as the healers provided an enriched solo style, allowing you to grind quickly and from mobs to mobs, or even agro a group of mobs, and whipe them to clear your bonus mission , and feel the different from group mobs are alot harder then a boss alone.

[Neoforcer]

After testing with different heroic and one SF run (doable with my vanguard, not so much with my op) - companions still glitchy but now they glitchy and dying quickly. And it's more time consuming. And yes its not so fun anymore.

Also i encounter new bug with autoloot. But at this moment it the least of my problem with this game.

 

That's is what i here siting on Odessen with a few elitist going it fine as most of the population is complaining. Did comps need a nerf yest but not to this extreme

[Neoforcer]

The comment keeps being made that H2+ are supposed to be done with another player, not a companion....or at least that is the gist of what is being conveyed by a few IMO.

 

 

The star fortress is meant to be just a heroic 2 as all the others and are meant to be done both with and with out comps. So even eric if it listed as a heroic 2 it is meant to be solo with a camp and you and he said they look into it if we feel the feeback we give made iot were you had to hard of time doing so

Edited November 18, 2015 by Neoforcer

[Ghisallo]

That's is what i here siting on Odessen with a few elitist going it fine as most of the population is complaining. Did comps need a nerf yest but not to this extreme

 

Just curious... when did "elitist" stop applying simply to people who belittle others and treat them with disrespect and become people who can simply accomplish something others can't or can only do so with great difficulty?

[MeNaCe-NZ]

The comment keeps being made that H2+ are supposed to be done with another player, not a companion....or at least that is the gist of what is being conveyed by a few IMO.

 

Eric Musco has clearly indicated, on multiple occasions that that is not the case. The difficulty was lowered and companions boosted specifically so players could run H2+ with a companion.

 

 

 

 

 

And of course the patch notes.

 

Heroic Missions

Nearly all Heroic Missions have been adjusted to be completed by groups of 2+. This means that most former [Heroic 4] missions have had their difficulties reduced.

 

And so, one has to draw some absolute facts from these statements, unless you accuse EM and the folks that write the patch notes of being dishonest....

 

1) Most Heroics were reduced in difficulty to H2+.

2) Bioware intended one of the H2+ people to be your companion as an option.

3) Companions were set to the powers they had ON PURPOSE to facilitate ease doing new and old content.

 

Star Fortress may indeed be a special case, and in that case the above may not apply.

 

These are absolute facts. Not conjecture, not hearsay, actual facts. Enough with the hyperbole.

 

You're taking anything Eric has to say as verbatim and fact now ... odd I thought you were one of the ones that left over the CSM fiasco and how he basically communicated that issue? Perhaps I'm mistaken.

 

1. is a fact.

2. is most likely a fact as it's "an option"

3. Far too much of a generalization. Which new and old content? Also they are admitting they have set it too high and have as such tweaked it back down. This is also a "fact". Whether or not it stays this way remains to be seen.

 

Oh and another fact ... no solo content has been removed with this change. People want to play solo content can still do the solo content. None of it is "impossible".

 

Edit: also as to SF go have a read up about it on Dulfy, when you look at it on a whole it's certianly not your regular run of the mill heroic. They really dropped the ball lumping it in by title with the other heroics, such a cause for confusion imo.

 

Look at the rewards. achievements etc. etc. - far more akin to a flashpoint than a heroic. Heck it's more it's own beast entirely but certainly not a simple heroic 2+ as I see it in anything other than name.

Edited November 18, 2015 by MeNaCe-NZ

[Ksen]

That's is what i here siting on Odessen with a few elitist going it fine as most of the population is complaining. Did comps need a nerf yest but not to this extreme

 

yep. General on Odessen at this moment very ad hominem style.

[Ylliarus]

I hope the dissatisfaction players are experiencing with this 'balancing' will send a clear message to Bioware regarding their enormous mistake. The companions have become USELESS. Heroic content soloable? Not anymore! This SEVERELY ruined my gameplay after 3 years of being content and pleased. All of that is now undone.

[shawn_the_geek]

And again it ignores one of the primary requirements of a persistent world MMORPG, consistent and predictible challenge. Yes this means player experience will vary for a multitude of factors, but an MMORPG with a persistent world needs this uniformity so that thepersistent world can be properly designed.

 

I agree your idea makes sense for instancing. SWTOR tries to address this with their Tactical/SM/HM/NiM paradigm. But in so far as having happen in the Open and persistent world it makes the game, from the perspective of the devs trying to track difficulty, time to complete etc a nightmare.

Let's be frank here. This game has no business being an MMO. It should have been an offline single player right from the start. EA wanted to cash in on the WoW train and forced a series that works best as offline SP into an online variant and all it has done is hurt it. Bioware knows that which is why they have made the game as story driven and soloable as they have.

 

In FFXIV and other MMOs you have to do dungeons just to progress the story. In here you can complete the story without ever having to group up with another person. Look at KOTFE. They pretty much abandoned the MMO aspect of it and turned it mostly single player. It's basically become a single player game with multiplayer elements. On my new Sith Warrior I have been able to do everything solo without needing to group up once and I am loving it.

 

If they wanted challenge they wouldn't have made certain flashpoints soloable. The flashpoints that can't be soloed aren't worth doing anymore. If they wanted challenge they wouldn't have made KOTFE into a single player game. Almost every aspect that made the game challenging when launched has been either done away with or changed to make soloable.

 

This game is now as challenging as a Call of Duty campaign.

[MeNaCe-NZ]

Except I do solo the heroics. That's besides the point. Making companions OP optional means both sides can play the way they want. You can play the game as challenging as you want and others can play the game as easy as they want.

 

It would also foster compromise between the community and make it less divided. The people that unsubbed because of it would most likely resub. It helps and benefits everyone involved.

 

Yes if you nerf the rewards for god moding it that's a compromise.

 

What about tactical FP's ( and even HM to a degree ) however? Allowing people to take OP comps into these had a negative impact on the community who enjoy group content ( reducing numbers available to group up for example ) - what solution here? Outright ban companions from group designed content as per operations? Compromise.

[geschmonz]

Ok, bioware, so you want feedback.

 

Here is mine:

 

You fu.cked it up for solo players. H2+ starfortress is impossible for some comps (in special damage dealers and healers).

 

I give you a week to fix it. If you dont i am going to unsub. I am sure you know that solo playing should be your focus, and not trying to force people into groups.

[Deyjarl]

A few people are doing it.

 

Care to support the few claim?

[MeNaCe-NZ]

I personally do not think bait and switch or that sort of thing was/is likely. I think that is giving Bioware far too much credit frankly.

 

I think this was yet another stumble, added to a line of stumbles over the last year. I don't know what happened, if they lost someone, or hired someone, but something happened around the time they decided to go on the balance crusade....the screwups started streaming out and they kept up the pace.

 

IMO they have certainly made some whopping mistakes. This is definitely one of them. But I do think talking about it before the patch mitigated it a bit, so that was a good move.

 

I find the funniest thing of all is all the secrecy around beta testing etc. and how it wasn't open and we'll never know if the OP companions was picked up and rigorously reported and whether or not BW chose to ignore it.

 

See imo the issues isn't the nerf but the fact the comps were put in OP to begin with, had that not happened then we would have a few hundred less pages on the topic as none would be complaing about weak comps just as they never did prior to 4.0

 

Well maybe not never, I'm sure some people did some times and were subsequently ignored.

[Ghisallo]

One last thing from reading everything. Has anyone stopped to think that maybe... just maybe... the HEROIC SF, is supposed to be the "final step" of this part of the story?

 

I mean lets look at it. Yeah with a couple possible exceptions, while arguably more tedious, all the other H2 weeklies are more than doable (at least from what I have seen spoken of here.) The one that is a roadblock for some is the Heroic SF.

 

Remember the SF has a "solo mode", so maybe the problem is this. Everyone is supposed to be able to do the Heroic SF EVENTUALLY. You do all the other weeklies first to get the crystals, to then get the gear, the gifts to level up your companions, the faction with the various parts of your alliance to use the boosts inside the SF if needed, THEN you do the Heroic SF. I mean seriously, look at all of the different mechanics involved.

 

based on all of this I think the problem is they NEVER intended you to do those Heroic SFs until you had done more than a fair bit of grinding...THEN you do them. Problem is they launched with Companions so darn OP that you could bypass part of the grind and now that the game is working as intended we have people who don't want the clock to turn back./

[tmwfte]

Running through the 4 Voss Heroics with a rank 10 (then 11) Rokuss set to heals. I'm a Madness Sorc in mostly 220/216 gear, 224 mainhand, lowest are my 2 208 relics.

 

They yo-yo of damage/heals doesn't happen any more, it's just simply damage unless I heal myself. Rokuss can't handle mobs more than two at a time, he turtles, spending all of his time healing himself, poorly, if he takes aggro. My off-heals put out a better and more consistent output keeping ~him~ alive more than him keeping me alive. Ultimately, he died three times, and in some cases I may honestly have done as well if I had have just dismissed him period and done it myself.

[Leoffren]

Hi all,

 

I don't tend to post on forums but I wanted to share my experience with the companion changes and H2+ Star Fortress (specifically Voss).

 

Note: This is a long post that contains my experiences and opinions. Take it as you should all opinions, with a grain of salt~

 

A bit of insight into my character:

Jedi Guardian - Vigilance

Gear is consists of:

188 Relics

190 (Weapon/Offhand/Boots/1 Implant)

4 208 pieces

2 216 pieces

 

Alliance Level: 3/4

Companion: Lana (16), Deadeye (10)

 

All the gear was gained via soloing through the story mode - so only quest items and commendation gear. I also picked up the buffs at the start of the flashpoint.

 

Before the companion change I was able to very very easily solo through this star fortress and felt that any change to companions would require me to start using more of my defensive abilities, which I didn't use at all before today. I felt extremely powerful, or maybe I felt powerful because my companion was so strong, but it made sense to me in a way as I figured this was story content that everyone should be able to complete as it gated companion unlocks.

 

After the change I was able to get through to the Exarch, but unable to defeat him. I did die a few times during the 'ambush' with the two knights; and more than a few times during the last 'use the item on the boss npc' room before the Exarch. After a few attempts though I made my way through those and got to the Exarch.

 

During the Exarch fight I used tactics and skills that I've never really had to use much before. I interrupted his heal as often as I could (force leap and force kick), taunted when my companion pulled agro, staggered my defensive cooldowns, and kited a lot(he does enough damage where I can't go toe to toe with him for long). I even purchased some health/stim packs and started using Heroic moment and those abilities when he was using skills that stopped his normal attacks.

 

My companion in tank mode wasn't able to stand up to him for more than a few moments, dps mode was a fast wipe, and the healing was a small fraction of the Exarch's damage even when my defensive skills were active. If my companion took more than a quarter of its health in damage it would stop healing me and focus on keeping itself alive, so after a certain point I was disabling all its skills and using them manually on myself. I also found that the random AOE spots in the room would do tons of damage to my companions so I was having to watch for that as well in order to move the companion out of it by using the passive skill. I also found that melee companions (I'm looking at you Lana) would stop healing to follow me as I kited, which was most of the fight, so I swapped to a ranged companion and had more success. My best attempt was to get him to 18% before I gave up for the night.

 

I enjoyed the challenge at first. It was refreshing to actually watch my companion and my own health bar, and to find that I needed to actually take part in the game's mechanics to make it through the majority of the encounters. However that enjoyment turned into frustration as I couldn't figure out how I could use my skills to beat him after many defeats.

 

I know my gear leaves a lot to be desired and I have much to learn about my class and its abilities, but I hope my experience helps in some way.

[MeNaCe-NZ]

Let's be frank here. This game has no business being an MMO. It should have been an offline single player right from the start. EA wanted to cash in on the WoW train and forced a series that works best as offline SP into an online variant and all it has done is hurt it. Bioware knows that which is why they have made the game as story driven and soloable as they have.

 

In FFXIV and other MMOs you have to do dungeons just to progress the story. In here you can complete the story without ever having to group up with another person. Look at KOTFE. They pretty much abandoned the MMO aspect of it and turned it mostly single player. It's basically become a single player game with multiplayer elements. On my new Sith Warrior I have been able to do everything solo without needing to group up once and I am loving it.

 

If they wanted challenge they wouldn't have made certain flashpoints soloable. The flashpoints that can't be soloed aren't worth doing anymore. If they wanted challenge they wouldn't have made KOTFE into a single player game. Almost every aspect that made the game challenging when launched has been either done away with or changed to make soloable.

 

This game is now as challenging as a Call of Duty campaign.

 

Hush your mouth Call of Duty is like nightmare mode compared to what KoTFE story was like.

 

Also when you say now do you mean after the nerf ... if so what was it like before?

[Deyjarl]

uber level gear and quite high influence

 

What do you call uber gear? I'm doing it easily with 208 gear and a couple 216 pieces. All picked up with the gems from KoFE quests / Heroics. Not one radiant piece.

 

I had one Paladin go down in 45 seconds, and I'm on a tank not DPS. My highest companion influence is 16.

 

The lowest my health got was 50% on the last room before the final boss, which is probably the more difficult part. Otherwise it never dipped below 80%.

 

Still did the no buff/pack achievement also. Again no where near high influence, or "uber" gear. Wouldn't consider myself a top tier player, but not average either so that is why I consider a tweak to the difficulty fine.

 

and even then it's far from easy.

 

Don't presume to speak for others.

 

As I said, I can see some minor tweaking for some people (not myself), but it is no where near the doom and gloom you are making it out to be.

 

There is a loud vocal minority here, that is not appearing in game.

Edited November 18, 2015 by Deyjarl

[MeNaCe-NZ]

One last thing from reading everything. Has anyone stopped to think that maybe... just maybe... the HEROIC SF, is supposed to be the "final step" of this part of the story?

 

I mean lets look at it. Yeah with a couple possible exceptions, while arguably more tedious, all the other H2 weeklies are more than doable (at least from what I have seen spoken of here.) The one that is a roadblock for some is the Heroic SF.

 

Remember the SF has a "solo mode", so maybe the problem is this. Everyone is supposed to be able to do the Heroic SF EVENTUALLY. You do all the other weeklies first to get the crystals, to then get the gear, the gifts to level up your companions, the faction with the various parts of your alliance to use the boosts inside the SF if needed, THEN you do the Heroic SF. I mean seriously, look at all of the different mechanics involved.

 

based on all of this I think the problem is they NEVER intended you to do those Heroic SFs until you had done more than a fair bit of grinding...THEN you do them. Problem is they launched with Companions so darn OP that you could bypass part of the grind and now that the game is working as intended we have people who don't want the clock to turn back./

 

That being the case the problem is they launched the HM SF at all this early when it's months until the story plays through and it then makes a gap between the haves and have nots.

 

I think the mistake was as you say the comps and also calling it a Heroic 2+ as though it's on par with all the other's , it's not.

[shawn_the_geek]

Yes if you nerf the rewards for god moding it that's a compromise.

 

What about tactical FP's ( and even HM to a degree ) however? Allowing people to take OP comps into these had a negative impact on the community who enjoy group content ( reducing numbers available to group up for example ) - what solution here? Outright ban companions from group designed content as per operations? Compromise.

I think we can both agree that tactical flashpoints are worthless. Players that use OP comps in tactical flashpoints get crap rewards. The people that group up and use non-OP comps to do a tactical flashpoint would get great rewards. The compromise is still there. Want great gear? Group up.

 

It's an incentive to make people challenge themselves. I know for a fact people would challenge themselves for great gear and rewards.

[MeNaCe-NZ]

I think we can both agree that tactical flashpoints are worthless. Players that use OP comps in tactical flashpoints get crap rewards. The people that group up and use non-OP comps to do a tactical flashpoint would get great rewards. The compromise is still there. Want great gear? Group up.

 

It's an incentive to make people challenge themselves. I know for a fact people would challenge themselves for great gear and rewards.

 

Funny because I suggested similar things around the level sync debate as a means of compromise and still got attacked over it. When it's the internet and people don't actually have to engage one another in a civil manner you'll find compromise just isn't an option.

[DarkSaberMaster]

And people said never trust datamined information lol. Anyways, thanks for trying to reel back in the companions devs. 50-75% was too much, but a nerf was definitely needed. Playing the game in God mode is only fun the first time around.

[Ghisallo]

That being the case the problem is they launched the HM SF at all this early when it's months until the story plays through and it then makes a gap between the haves and have nots.

 

I think the mistake was as you say the comps and also calling it a Heroic 2+ as though it's on par with all the other's , it's not.

 

I wouldn't even say the launch of the HM SF was too early. People are clearing it now, though yes, not everyone. As such I think they were launched because of their fear about people going through content too fast. These games always have that group of hard core over achievers. I think they introduced the HM SF when they did because they knew that there would be players who would be capable of doing them a month after release.

 

Does that cause angst for the person that is not an "over achiever?" Hell yes. However these games are about herding cats, keeping all the different minorities, if not happy, at least content sao they keep playing and keep paying. Some of the comp stances MAYBE need a little tweek up...not much I wager. I think the main issue is a false perception that was created by the initial mistake.

[Ylliarus]

And people said never trust datamined information lol. Anyways, thanks for trying to reel back in the companions devs. 50-75% was too much, but a nerf was definitely needed. Playing the game in God mode is only fun the first time around.

 

But now the companions are completely useless. They are worse than with the best gear I could give them befote 4.0! They don't heal anything and are useless. Soloing content has been RUINED so I can't believe you are thankful for this nerf.

[Ghisallo]

But now the companions are completely useless. They are worse than with the best gear I could give them befote 4.0! They don't heal anything and are useless. Soloing content has been RUINED so I can't believe you are thankful for this nerf.

 

Perhaps because everyone is not sharing your personal experience? Not trying to be rude, I am sorry you are having issues but that is not a universal experience.

Edited November 18, 2015 by Ghisallo