Companion Changes in 4.0.2

[punjabTHEimplaer]

what are you guys doing .

i was having so much fun . i worked so hard on ranking up my companions now all that feels like it was a waste of time.

they can barely keep them self's alive now. please fix what you unfixed

Edited November 18, 2015 by punjabTHEimplaer

[NaranekKosh]

... Play around with the Companions in each role and let us know your feedback. Thanks everyone.

 

-eric

 

My Feedback: Subscription cancelled 5 minutes ago.

[Silverbird]

So Bioware you make the game easier have people come back to the game get used to the faster/ pace and now u decided to make it harder difficult and change it will see how many subs you lose because of this stupid change all you had to do was figure out a way to make it option for us and let us decide that's all.

[Dakkurn]

I was a returning founder, I enjoyed the story when the companions were over tuned, but that's me, I like the easy mode story, makes me feel like I am truly that person in the story doing all these fantastical things.

 

My opinion aside, I just don't have the energy to deal with having to play through h2+ while leveling. Yeah I can level off of story and planet arc quests, but lets be honest the best gear comes from the heroics.

 

I am not running away pissed yet, we will see, maybe they will retune the companions better.

 

All they hurt were casuals and low level people, because obviously the end game people running star forges and what not are not having any issues at all.

[shippper]

developers totataly fu..ng stupid morans. get our companions back.

just die on 3 silver mob?

what the hell?

it was better before KOTF!!!!

companions healer now totally ****.

what you ****** doing Bioware?

why?

you dont need subs?

okay.

Edited November 18, 2015 by shippper

[Silverbird]

I was a returning founder, I enjoyed the story when the companions were over tuned, but that's me, I like the easy mode story, makes me feel like I am truly that person in the story doing all these fantastical things.

 

My opinion aside, I just don't have the energy to deal with having to play through h2+ while leveling. Yeah I can level off of story and planet arc quests, but lets be honest the best gear comes from the heroics.

 

I am not running away pissed yet, we will see, maybe they will retune the companions better.

 

All they hurt were casuals and low level people, because obviously the end game people running star forges and what not are not having any issues at all.

 

Well said Dakkurn

Edited November 18, 2015 by Silverbird

[Haruen]

Thanks Eric. Makes sense to me. I'm a "filthy casual" and the companions seemed absurdly OP'ed to me. I do want to be able to solo content, so I'm concerned I won't be able to any more. Hopefully we can get a balance point, seems it will take a few passes and some time to get right.

[Extinctionzone]

Hey folks,

 

So with 4.0.2 we have brought their effectiveness down quite a bit, let’s talk about some of the specifics here:

[*]There isn’t a flat % that healing was reduced by. Effectiveness reduction varies greatly depending on level, Influence, level sync, etc. That being said, the healer companions are still quite competitive, but they no longer trivialize content that was meant to be challenging. <snip>

 

There is simply no grey area with you lot. it is just extremes one way or the other. I had until this last patch been enjoying the new content and expansion, yes healing companions needed a fix. but not to the point of being unplayable, they are effectively back to trash level. no incentive or enjoyment when using them. Nada nothing. they are useless again.

 

They are NOT contributing enough to be worthwhile. BACK TO SQUARE ONE with companions.

 

Lana heals values via tool tips before Patch

http://tinypic.com/r/51pzrd/9

Lana heal values via tool tips after Patch.

http://tinypic.com/view.php?pic=2hnbel4&s=9

 

unbelievable. you never learn.

Edited November 18, 2015 by Extinctionzone

[Khiriath]

And yet people are doing it.

 

Yeah some of us cleared TOS HM before it was nerfed as well. Just because we could, didn't mean that's how it should be or that we wanted to do it again.

 

I cleared SF H2 last night without buff ect. Doesn't mean I ever plan on doing that again. There is challenge which is fun, and then there is tedium. This is the latter, oh and did I mention it is totally over punishing to MDPS.

[MeNaCe-NZ]

IT IS SOLO CONTENT. Jesus. You people and your e-***** measuring.

 

Well that's debateable, it's ideally group content that can be done solo in a challenging manner if you choose to make up your group with your companion.

 

Either way, it's still doable solo with a companion. I'm sorry if you aren't skileld enough to complete it. Keep practising though and gear up, you'll get here I'm sure!

[sidewinderAC]

Ran the h2 savage skies on makeb earlier with my gunslinger and hk51. He was healing and I didn't run into any issues asisde from the turrets bugging out once. Maybe I need to run something harder to see the problem?

[MeNaCe-NZ]

There all using heroic moments to do so with legacy to kill the bosses while this works for founders new or returning players that don't have heroic moments die. Eric and Bioware said any one should be able to solo it and let them know and they will work to buff things

 

They didn't imply you would just be able to cruise through it. If you have to work to gear up and get heroic moments, alliance, influence to do it then so you should ... this is the TOUGHEST solo content in the game, stop pretending like it should be easy sheesh.

[DarthVengeant]

Not that any dev's will read this now, but...

 

My enjoyment of this game has essentially died since Level Synch, and now with the companion nerf pretty much killed it for me.

 

Since 4.0 hit all I have done are the daily GF Ops, that's it. I play the game about 25% of the amount I used to play it before 4.0 hit. I have ZERO desire to do the things I used to do because of all the nerfs. They just aren't fun anymore. I used to look forward to logging in the game, now I honestly don't. I haven't logged in in a few days now. And that NEVER happened pre-4.0. I used to play at least 12 hrs a week minimum. Now? Maybe 4.

 

Why? Because a certain group of people continually enforce their elitist "challenge" filled style of play on the rest of us, and Bioware caters to them endlessly. I am going to say, I am absolutely SICK of it. Completely fed up with that. In ALL games. People somewhere along the way forgot games are about fun, not a fake childish ego boost and boasting match.

 

Is everyday life not enough of a challenge? Or, do you just set and play games all day, and that's why you need the "challenge"? Seriously.

 

My daily life is challenging and stress enough. I log in video games to relax, escape, and just enjoy myself. Not be "challenged" yet again after getting home from working 8 hrs. Sure, I enjoy the HM and NiM Op sometimes, but when I log in I want to ENJOY using the high end raid gear I EARNED, not be forced to "level synch". I want to enjoy using my companions who should be a little OP. Why? Because of all the time I put into maxing every single one of them (all classes, both Imp and Rep). I put a lot of time into that, and now that has essentially been wiped away; which just flat out ruins my desire to do anything with them anymore. Yes, some of us enjoy just wiping the floor with things and having things be fairly "easy".

 

But, with 4.0 all those things are essentially gone. And with the "nerfs" so is my desire nerfed to play this game much anymore. I have loved and played this game for most all of it's release. It has had it's ups and downs and good and bads but for the most part I have enjoyed it. Not much anymore because of the things I have mentioned. No, I am not a casual. I have 12 lvl 65's and 22 toons. All of those lvl 65's were in high end raid gear pre-4.0 (198 and 192 with full set-pieces min maxed). I just don't have the desire to do that work now with all the changes. Because, what is the point in being in 220 gear now if you just get level synced as well as companions being wimps of what they used to be? Not much point.

 

Bioware. I would suggest you add two modes of play that a person can choose upon log in themselves while in Solo Mode (not grouped). Normal, or Hard (other MMO's actually have this). One would let our companions be what they were before the nerf, and the HM would make them be as they are now. Not have it forced on us with level synch and companion nerfs. Not have our companions be wimps even thought we WORKED HARD to get them all maxed so we could ENJOY them being powerhouses. I REALLY feel like I wasted all my countless hours on my companions now. Utterly pointless.

 

Why not let the people who EARNED companions being maxed out enjoy having them being a little OP if they choose? Why? How does that even affect anyone else but the person who did it? It doesn't. But, thanx to the "challenge" filled elitists we all must now suffer.

 

I will wait a bit and see if companions get some of their power back, because it was EARNED. If not, I really wont be playing much ever again. And that is honestly sad to me.

Edited November 18, 2015 by DarthVengeant

[Enjouserano]

Hey folks,

 

If you haven’t yet seen the 4.0.2 patch notes, you can view them here. There are some patch notes that we wanted to highlight and talk about specifically.

 

• Companion base stats have been reduced.
  
• Companion damage and healing output has been reduced.
  

 

Some of you will certainly ask, why the need to nerf Companions? This is something that we definitely saw the community be divided on, and it was good for us to hear feedback from both sides. Ultimately, this decision came down to our own goals for Companions, along with data on how they were performing. What we saw in those instances is that Companions, simply put, were just way too good. Their healing and damage output could be greater than that of a very skilled player with a fully maximized character. In order for you to understand why we are making these changes, we thought it best to explain our goals for Companions in Fallen Empire.

 

In KotFE, with a large focus on going back to story, we wanted to make sure that all of our story content was accessible to all of our players. The power that Companions bring to the table, definitely played a part in that accessibility. Companions, from a combat perspective, should complement and provide support to your character, not overshadow them. However, in looking at how strong Companions are, we may have gone a bit too far in that direction. Simply put, while playing through much of the game, there are a lot of situations in regular combat where it is practically impossible for you to be killed if you have a healing Companion. Although this can be fun for a time, this wasn’t our goal. Companions should be strong, they should fill any role you need, but they should not make your actual gameplay be overshadowed by how strong they are.

 

So with 4.0.2 we have brought their effectiveness down quite a bit, let’s talk about some of the specifics here:

• There isn’t a flat % that healing was reduced by. Effectiveness reduction varies greatly depending on level, Influence, level sync, etc. That being said, the healer companions are still quite competitive, but they no longer trivialize content that was meant to be challenging.
  
• Healing power increase by Influence level has been increased. That means that as you scale up Influence levels with a Companion they will get more powerful per level than before. This helps to offset the base healing reduction a bit as you gain influence with your companion.
  

 

We did want to make some improvements to tanking Companions:

• We increased the threat generated by tank companions, so they should be able to hold the attention of enemy NPCs better than before.
  
• We fixed an issue involving the tank companion’s mass grapple ability, it will no longer pull in enemies that are out of combat.
  

 

Will your Companions feel a bit weaker than they did when KotFE launched? Yes. But believe me they will still carry their weight and fill the role you need them to in combat. All that we ask is that you log in tomorrow, and check the changes yourself. Play around with the Companions in each role and let us know your feedback. Thanks everyone.

 

-eric

 

 

Yeah no I don't buy it your ideas are crap , you have a 250,000 k Grind (Ridiculously long nearly at 44 now ) you nerf the companion Now they can barely hold there own in a tactical flash-point . You Trivialized your own content , What the hell is the point of leveling up 250 k grind for some crappy companion as award that about as weak as a level 20 companion influence?i'd actually consider unsubbing , screw your alliance I won't be playing for awhile till you've sorted this junk . Your content it junk . Not to mention you've screwed new player with level 1 companions broken defense stats "Oh they can still carry there own !" Seriously doubt that . Sound like a bad politician . test your damn content do not make sweeping changes and go Oops we screwed up dur..dur will fix it !. How about use the damn test center for game play changes before implementing them! Jesus , ! Will fix it in 4.5! . And people wonder why people rag on EA . blizzard at least has basic sense to test there damn content if there making major changes ,not randomly make changes , screw up and then wait a 1-2 month to fix it . Jesus is the janitor the only one working at bioware ?The main audience for the game is Solo Players .really established majority do not Do Ops or HM of any sort or whatever crap raid content you have for a challenge , does it make logical sense to alienate them ? . Not going to do Star Fortresses weekly and spend million of credit on some gimped companion I have better thing to do and other game to play . The Companion needed to be Slightly tuned and you need to tune your damn flash-point while your at it not Nuked from orbit to prolong your crappy mmo grind with minimal rewards. . Or even better , Add difficulty level to Solo play for player who want it ... you know like every other RPG in existence .

Edited November 18, 2015 by Enjouserano

[Noleader]

I really get the sense that those who claim MMOs are all about grouping and nerfs added to the game that make it almost impossible to not group on core story elements (SFs) tend to highlight a disconnect in the community as a whole.

 

PC Gamers, by a large margin, are aging... younger generations (with a lot more time on their hands) are more involved in consoles and as such the MMO genre as a whole needs to change with it.

 

One option is to abandon the PC environment, and develop for consoles, which will permit you to continue to make grinds that allow those with time to show off their willingness to fall victim to the skinner box. The second option is to understand that your base is aging and with age comes responsibilities outside the game. Understand they like the idea, by a large margin, of logging in for 30 minutes or an hour and accomplishing some tasks before going about the routine of their adult lives.

 

Everyone is always so surprised that WoW is still king of the hill after all these years but one of the chief reasons they are is because they identified the aging of their base. The key is to accept as a firm that someone is going to be mad at you. The 3 or 4% (what it was in WoW) that want everything so hard as to exclude everyone who does not turn the game into a full time job or the remainder who enjoy a challenge that is not designed to be a brick wall.

 

At the end of the day there are many ways to make the majority of the players happy (at least part of the time). The thing is there is only one way to make the top few percent happy and that is to be punitive to those who are not part of their strata. For them the game is about being in the exclusive club and the only way to be in that club is to create it first.

[MeNaCe-NZ]

Ran the h2 savage skies on makeb earlier with my gunslinger and hk51. He was healing and I didn't run into any issues asisde from the turrets bugging out once. Maybe I need to run something harder to see the problem?

 

Yes you need to run the toughest heroic namely the SF Heroic that ideally can be solo'd but if you want to do it easy you should do it grouped.

 

They made an actual solo mode of this the more casual player but everyone has their hair on fire because they cruise through the hardest content by themselves ... it's getting almost funny.

 

Personally I would be utterly embarrassed of myself to publicly post in a rage as some people are doing. Sense of entitlement is becoming an understatement.

[MeNaCe-NZ]

Today , 07:19 AM | #840

REPORT POST QUOTE

I really get the sense that those who claim MMOs are all about grouping and nerfs added to the game that make it almost impossible to not group on core story elements (SFs) tend to highlight a disconnect in the community as a whole.

 

 

You do realise there is a solo mode to allow you to do the story aspect of SF right? Kind of makes the rest of your post pointless when you start it off like this ...

[Pavijan]

.

...

My opinion aside, I just don't have the energy to deal with having to play through h2+ while leveling. Yeah I can level off of story and planet arc quests, but lets be honest the best gear comes from the heroics.

...

.

 

That gear you get from heroic missions while leveling is meant to be a reward for those who participate in grouping (as it always was) or those that are willing to put an additional effort in doing them solo.

 

It isn't needed for leveling in any way (leveling experience is balanced with character in green gear only in mind. Blue is just a bonus) and in fact is a waste of time, when you level so fast these days that very soon you will be able to get something better doing story only.

[shawn_the_geek]

They didn't imply you would just be able to cruise through it. If you have to work to gear up and get heroic moments, alliance, influence to do it then so you should ... this is the TOUGHEST solo content in the game, stop pretending like it should be easy sheesh.

This is where comps being OP being optional would make everything better. That way you could have it as challenging as you want and others could have it as easy as they want. Incentives and rewards could be put in place to make people want to challenge themselves when playing.

[Jboath]

Before I could easily defeat an exarch in the star fortress heroics, now I can only take the paladins down to about 25-30%. 2300 presence and level 35 companion healing

[Noleader]

You do realise there is a solo mode to allow you to do the story aspect of SF right? Kind of makes the rest of your post pointless when you start it off like this ...

 

I know there are solo modes but they are also different then the heroic modes. I lucky completed all the heroic modes over the last few weeks so I got to progress the story to that point. Sadly those who did not will get to enjoy spamming outside the instance entrance for a while and hopefully find folks looking to do it in their limited play window.

Edited November 18, 2015 by Noleader

[Enjouserano]

Don't think age has much to do with it, collectively there only a tiny tiny minority of Loud basement dweller on the bowels of the internet who love grinds and hardcore mmo who ever found that "Gameplay " fun in the Western market . And they no longer have a market given the failure of hardcore mmo like Wild-star .Games are increasing having to sale other things to get by (Quick optional challenges , Story etc,game-play style flexibility) grind ? You figure you learn from that failure Wild-star . I did think the companion were too powerful to a small extent and needed to be slightly tuned down (Slightly) but for the most part if you max out influences they should be hell better than the best player given the time it takes to get to that influence level they should be incredibly powerful.. Now there just worthless level 40-50 companion should not be that weak. healing or tanking other wise and Jesus why the hell would you nerf something when the other stat are broken such as defense and armor that the most illogical nonsense i've ever seen . Edited November 18, 2015 by Enjouserano

[Adaarye]

Absolutely! It certainly may be a bit more challenging than before but you can complete them. The intent is that you can complete any [Heroic 2] with your Companion counting as one of the two. If you find this isn't true for any Heroics tomorrow, let us know.

 

-eric

 

I can't do them anymore. (level 30 influence Koth, 208/216 gear mix, relics 186) Getting my hindquarters eaten by bosses I did just fine before. This nerf sucked the fun right out of my game.

 

Unsub'd. Fix it and I'll re-sub. (x 2 accounts)

Edited November 18, 2015 by Adaarye

[Khiriath]

No. They didn't make a solo mode of Star Fortress. They are two separate things. One is a solo mode flash point, which yields a certain achieve(slicer and dicer) and is meant as a prelude to the Heroic 2.

 

Now specifically the problem is that Eric said on behalf of the devs:

Absolutely! It certainly may be a bit more challenging than before but you can complete them. The intent is that you can complete any [Heroic 2] with your Companion counting as one of the two. If you find this isn't true for any Heroics tomorrow, let us know.

 

-eric

 

That's not a matter of debate. That is what is said. Yes some people in really good gear can do it. I did it. That doesn't mean it was fun. There is challenge which is fun, and then their is punishing which is just tedious, which this is. Further, that H2 is incredibly punishing to MDPS, while RDPS have a much easier time. SOmething they promised wouldn't happen again, but there you have it.

 

Eric said if you can't do a heroic with just your comp to let the devs know. I hope that everyone that fails puts in a ticket, so that the Devs know.

[Ghisallo]

Here are the things I am taking away from a few posts here.

 

1. Yes BW screwed up... they have before and they will again, they under estimate or over estimate things, launch them and then fix later. This hasn't changed in 3 years, most of the people I see posting have been posting for sometime, so I just don't understand the surprise.

 

2. Because they screwed up, tey needed to "fix it."

 

3. I would question whether the MMO player base is actually aging out. MMOs have almost always been niche. WoW is an acception to the rule. Until WoW and then after, having 250k-500k subscribers was considered good. The problem is rather this. It was always niche BUT back in the day you simply had fewer "big" MMOs. It basically useed to be WoW, EQ, DAoC SWG and EQ2. Yeah there were others but these were the "biggies" Now you have WoW, EQ, EQ2, SWTOR, Rift, Final Fantasy, Lineage, GW2, Aion, Secret World, Wild Stars, ESO, EvE, Wildstars TERA AND more. As such the market is simply more diffuse for what has always been a smaller market (when you compare it to the numbers that FPS and sports games draw).

 

4. These games do NOT take a lot of time, nor do they require a lot of effort. The idea that "a population has a life" is a cop out these days. Yes it used to mean a lot of time. I can't tell you how happy I am not to be killing a place holder for 2 hours, over and over again waiting for the actual mob I need for the quest to spawn like I did in EQ and EQ2. Now it really is more about HOW you spend the time. I work 12 hour shifts, have mandatory overtime, a family, social life irl and a workout schedule YET I still somehow manage to get things done because before I play a game I read a couple guides and focus on 2 maybe 3 toons.

 

4.1 They can't make these games for all people. heck that don't even make these games to make any specific group genuinely happy. I once spoke with one of the "bigger" producers for a certain company a a Convention. he was drunk at the time and so was rather candid. He said the trick of making an MMO is to, essentially annoy everyone.

---First there are things you have to do that no one will like because you have to keep the game stable over the long term as you don't have the opportunity to hit a "reset" button like you do single player games. An expac needs to build directly off the previous in an MMO.

---Second, some of these things will piss off players and they will leave. Get over it.

---Third, there is no majority in an MMO, he said, just numerous minorities. If you make any minority genuinely happy a consequence is that you alienate another minority. Annoyed people still play and thus still pay, he said, alienated players do not play and thus do not pay.

 

So this is why you have solo AND heroic versions of stuff. Yes I know they say the SF' heroics should be soloable, they are BUT they are also supposed to be a challenge. This means some people will not be able to do them, it sucks but that is how it is. The very existence of challenge (Eric's words) means some people will fall through the cracks, OR need to do more work before they can walk in the door etc. no two players are the same. It's why you have tactical and HM flashpoints and its why sometimes, when a company makes a mistake and causes players to be overpowered they have to be retuned to a lower level.

Edited November 18, 2015 by Ghisallo