MeNaCe-NZ Posted November 18, 2015 Share Posted November 18, 2015 They nerfed rank 50 companion healing by over 50% on one power and 75% on the other. Fix this or i'll have to consider finding another game with sane balance passes. Check my numbers here: http://www.swtor.com/community/showthread.php?t=854099 Did you actually try playing the content to see how it went? It was insanely overpowered before, it doesn't matter what the numbers changed by but how the content goes. Don't expect to just breeze through SF Heroics either, this is meant to be DIFFICULT content, not guaranteed to do content. Also why did we need yet another topic? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cicgnar Posted November 18, 2015 Share Posted November 18, 2015 (edited) I think the companion nerf went out of hand. Did they need some tweaking? Yes. Are they as they should be now? No. Simple as that. Casual and solo players were more than happy with things as they were. I imagine things like the achievement for doing a Heroic Star Fortress on your own with no bonus were meant to be a lot harder to get, so that's where I think the nerf was needed. My Lana at Influence 24 healed 13-14k at best. One or two seconds extra CD on her abilities and she'd been corrected, imo. So, the needed nerf should have been much smaller than what we got. About hardcore players, or just people who thought Companions were OP but refused to let them go... How about a middle road? Simply put a button that makes influence level irrelevant. Lvl 1 Companions were near identical as how pre4.0 companions were, so... If someone thought "Hell, this AI is making this all too-easy for me", he'd only have to do one click, and voilá, you have a much weaker companion. Add extra achievements, and I think the problem would have been sorted out. For extra credit, make companions don't engage in PvP, so they are irrelevant on open world combat. Instead of that, or part of that, or even instead of the cautious way, which would have been reducing their effectiveness in stacks of 10%, you went and downgraded them by 50%, a little less on tanks, since you apparently repaired the armor bug, a lot more on heals. That's my feedback. You went too far. I hope next patch will fix this, maybe give our companions some power back. Edited November 18, 2015 by Cicgnar Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Noyjitat Posted November 18, 2015 Share Posted November 18, 2015 (edited) Did you actually try playing the content to see how it went? It was insanely overpowered before, it doesn't matter what the numbers changed by but how the content goes. Don't expect to just breeze through SF Heroics either, this is meant to be DIFFICULT content, not guaranteed to do content. Also why did we need yet another topic? Yes and they heal even worse than pre 4.0 and now its more than difficult. it's unplayable... And why not? All of the nerf herding tards made several threads each day. Edited November 18, 2015 by Noyjitat Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LordArtemis Posted November 18, 2015 Share Posted November 18, 2015 They nerfed rank 50 companion healing by over 50% on one power and 75% on the other. Fix this or i'll have to consider finding another game with sane balance passes. Check my numbers here: http://www.swtor.com/community/showthread.php?t=854099 Thank you. IMO that is exactly what is needed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LydMekk Posted November 18, 2015 Share Posted November 18, 2015 This overnerf combined with the added difficulty of levelsync is really the last straw... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AdarnVote Posted November 18, 2015 Share Posted November 18, 2015 I had no problem with the level sync, but this seemingly over-kill of nerf to companion healing power is very frustrating and upsetting. It seems I will have no choice but to not renew my subscription come December, which is really sad because KOTFE has been an enjoyable experience for me thus far. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LordArtemis Posted November 18, 2015 Share Posted November 18, 2015 Influence 50 I assume... my rank 33 comp isn't near that health any more. And armor doesn't do a damn thing on comps atm... the story was fun, but the game is broken. I think I am 48 or 49, I should have mentioned that if I didn't. Armor still isnt working? If that is the case that is REALLY disappointing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rantboi Posted November 18, 2015 Share Posted November 18, 2015 How do you generate this report ? Parsec has an option to show companion stats Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MeNaCe-NZ Posted November 18, 2015 Share Posted November 18, 2015 Yes and they heal even worse than pre 4.0 and now its more than difficult. it's unplayable... And why not? All of the nerf herding tards made several threads each day. What did you fail on? How was it different to before in what you could do and now can't do? etc... If you want Eric to take note as he requested I think specifics would be required beyond "these were my numbers and there are my new numbers" They know the numbers are changing, they want to know what solo content you can't do now that you could before. So far it seems people can do it but it's challenging and takes time ... sort of like challenging top end solo content should ... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eilu Posted November 18, 2015 Share Posted November 18, 2015 Having companions go from ~16k heals to ~3k heals, for example, is extreme in an expansion where soloing is enabled and encouraged. Spending the time, credits, and/or crystals to boost a companion through 50 levels of affection for what will now be minimal gain makes the whole process feel more like "eh" than exciting. Why bother now? So they'll be marginally less crappy, not good? What makes it worse, is that it feels like it got dropped without much forethought.--no testing, no community feedback from actually playing with the changes on any sort of test servers. They've used the *live* game for a kneejerk nerf instead, and that's a horrible model. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LordArtemis Posted November 18, 2015 Share Posted November 18, 2015 (edited) I personally think it is more useful, at the moment, for folks to post real numbers. That can back up performance claims, which I feel has done so far. Edited November 18, 2015 by LordArtemis Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
E-Zekiel Posted November 18, 2015 Share Posted November 18, 2015 (edited) Unfortunately I don't have a way of posting pre 4.0 numbers and pre 4.0.2 numbers because I didn't record them anywhere other than in my head, so all I can really say, myself, is that pre 4.0, DPS companions in the 192 gear from Yavin weeklies and such, did about 150% (or one a and a half times) of my tank's damage, who was at the time in full 198 gear.. Post 4.0, they did about 300-400% of my damage, barring some buff stacks I'd line up to hit unusually hard, and yes I feel that was too much. Post 4.0.2, on average my DPS companion is averaging about 60% of my damage as a tank. note: this is in mostly 208 gear with maybe 4 216's and one 220, for all post 4.0 estimations. Edited November 18, 2015 by E-Zekiel Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DurdensWrath Posted November 18, 2015 Share Posted November 18, 2015 (edited) Absolutely! It certainly may be a bit more challenging than before but you can complete them. The intent is that you can complete any [Heroic 2] with your Companion counting as one of the two. If you find this isn't true for any Heroics tomorrow, let us know. -eric So, apparently you're either a liar, completely full of it, or out of the loop. You might want to have a talk with the devs, because once again those mouth breathing fools have nerfed the bottom out of something. IN CRE MENTAL CHANGES. Learn how to do this. Or stop hiring coders from DeVry. What makes it worse, is that it feels like it got dropped without much forethought.--no testing, no community feedback from actually playing with the changes on any sort of test servers. They've used the *live* game for a kneejerk nerf instead, and that's a horrible model. They're the worst team I've ever encountered. Marvel Heroes? They actually take some feedback, have a test realm, and pay attention. These people listen to nobody but the loudest and most tear filled whiners, and then pull a George W. Bush and double-down on their stupid decision, so they don't look weak. I've said this before, and I'll say it again. If it is a benefit to the player in anyway, these ******s will nerf it to the ground IMMEDIATELY. A gamebreaking bug, it will take weeks or months to fix. Edited November 18, 2015 by DurdensWrath Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ghisallo Posted November 18, 2015 Share Posted November 18, 2015 (edited) Metrics... you're delusional. Those "metrics" existed before they launched the game. They wanted the OP comps to get people to sub an extra month... then pull this ****. My rank 33 healing comp was healing me for 419. Let that sink in. 419. How about you play it then post? I am not even coming close to addressing that so straw man?. I am responding to someone who says that the way the comps were at 4.0 launch was/is intended for them and hat BW changed it because of th complaints of a "vocal minority of players". Eric clearly says this was not intended and the change was to bring them in line with their intent. I won't address the tin-foil hat theory but I will address your number and playing the game however. Where were you? Level synced? Which companion? I just saw the same numbers in green you report... while I was on Narshadda. So level sync. Secondly green numbers don't matter...parse matters. My parser is showing a goodly amount of overheals in the heroics... often well over 50% over heals (remember hps =/= eHps). my companion is only 18 affection btw Edited November 18, 2015 by Ghisallo Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DurdensWrath Posted November 18, 2015 Share Posted November 18, 2015 (edited) Eric clearly says this was not intended and the change was to bring them in line with their intent. I'm so tired of that B.S. Every time the players are having fun, they whip out the "intent" card. These devs are like Congress. The best things happen when they're not working. So far it seems people can do it but it's challenging and takes time ... sort of like challenging top end solo content should ... People are failing Makeb content. Heroic 2 that they were able to complete before. That isn't top end content. That's grindy crap that people were actually willing to do once KotFE came out. Oh, and why am I not surprised Menace-NZ is all for these nerfs. There's never been a bigger Bioware apologist or elitist. Edited November 18, 2015 by DurdensWrath Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rantboi Posted November 18, 2015 Share Posted November 18, 2015 Unfortunately I don't have a way of posting pre 4.0 numbers and pre 4.0.2 numbers because I didn't record them anywhere other than in my head, so all I can really say, myself, is that pre 4.0, DPS companions in the 192 gear from Yavin weeklies and such, did about 150% (or one a and a half times) of my tank's damage, who was at the time in full 198 gear.. Post 4.0, they did about 300-400% of my damage, barring some buff stacks I'd line up to hit unusually hard, and yes I feel that was too much. Post 4.0.2, on average my DPS companion is averaging about 60% of my damage as a tank. note: this is in mostly 208 gear with maybe 4 216's and one 220, for all post 4.0 estimations. That doesn't sound right at all. I already posted this in some thread but here's a rank 41 comp before and after nerf http://imgur.com/WmYaBX0 they did nerf them a bit too much but it's nowhere near as bad as what you're saying. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rethrox Posted November 18, 2015 Share Posted November 18, 2015 loved 4.0,, but cancelling sub with this patch, not sure why you didn't want my money, i was going to give it to you, waiting on future chapters. Why have us do missions for companions if you are going to nerf them? You do realize the game was fun with 4.0, but yet you don't want it to be fun for us anymore. That's why i unsubbed a year ago. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ghisallo Posted November 18, 2015 Share Posted November 18, 2015 I think the companion nerf went out of hand. Did they need some tweaking? Yes. Are they as they should be now? No. Simple as that. Casual and solo players were more than happy with things as they were. I imagine things like the achievement for doing a Heroic Star Fortress on your own with no bonus were meant to be a lot harder to get, so that's where I think the nerf was needed. My Lana at Influence 24 healed 13-14k at best. One or two seconds extra CD on her abilities and she'd been corrected, imo. So, the needed nerf should have been much smaller than what we got. About hardcore players, or just people who thought Companions were OP but refused to let them go... How about a middle road? Simply put a button that makes influence level irrelevant. Lvl 1 Companions were near identical as how pre4.0 companions were, so... If someone thought "Hell, this AI is making this all too-easy for me", he'd only have to do one click, and voilá, you have a much weaker companion. Add extra achievements, and I think the problem would have been sorted out. For extra credit, make companions don't engage in PvP, so they are irrelevant on open world combat. Instead of that, or part of that, or even instead of the cautious way, which would have been reducing their effectiveness in stacks of 10%, you went and downgraded them by 50%, a little less on tanks, since you apparently repaired the armor bug, a lot more on heals. That's my feedback. You went too far. I hope next patch will fix this, maybe give our companions some power back. Thing is most players LOVE it when they are OP, either vs other players or content. The problem is this is bad for game design. it creates issues with designing encounters, replayability and all that stuff. So you get players LOVING they are OP, blasting through the content, then they get bored and leave. Most of the time, even if things are a little bit of PITA, once the OP is gone, yeah people will complain about a grind, or the fact they now have to gear up as the devs originally intended they do, BUT they keep playing longer because it takes longer to get to the point of boredom. You will also have some that rage quit, but those are, typically, fewer than those that would quick from boredom setting in too fast. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Draqsko Posted November 18, 2015 Share Posted November 18, 2015 That's not really a fix. I was only at Influence level 10 with Kaliyo when I got into the battle in this video. 1 vs 1 Rakghoul Event PVP Battle That should being you to just as the first fight is about to start, if not it starts around 2:17:40 Learn to interrupt and CC, you almost had it, but then you let it slip away from you. Don't forget, knockbacks can interrupt the activation heal, but not keep them from recasting. However that's often times good enough to get your interrupt or CC off. Trust me, it's not that hard to kill a companion, even the way they were. This nerf has nothing to do with PvP at all. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BlackFlameRose Posted November 18, 2015 Share Posted November 18, 2015 (edited) My lvl 50 is getting it's butt kicked because my companion is useless now as a healer. If I could gear my companion I wouldn't care. I took great pride in gear them now I can't do crap. Edited November 18, 2015 by BlackFlameRose Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DurdensWrath Posted November 18, 2015 Share Posted November 18, 2015 Thing is most players LOVE it when they are OP, either vs other players or content. The problem is this is bad for game design. it creates issues with designing encounters, replayability and all that stuff. So you get players LOVING they are OP, blasting through the content, then they get bored and leave. Most of the time, even if things are a little bit of PITA, once the OP is gone, yeah people will complain about a grind, or the fact they now have to gear up as the devs originally intended they do, BUT they keep playing longer because it takes longer to get to the point of boredom. You will also have some that rage quit, but those are, typically, fewer than those that would quick from boredom setting in too fast. The problem is, level synch. So there is no point where a player feels powerful anymore. The heroics were still challenging with multiple gold star enemies. Now they're much much harder and way more time consuming. They're not worth the effort anymore. What bioware had done was make it so people could "enjoy" the grind. Those who wanted a challenge could have made one for themselves. And man, am I tired of you Bioware apologists that come out of the woodwork ready to take whatever load the devs are willing to splash on you. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ShenLongKazama Posted November 18, 2015 Share Posted November 18, 2015 (edited) one question, have you notice the buff bars for the companions only last 1 minute now. What?! Edited November 18, 2015 by ShenLongKazama Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DurdensWrath Posted November 18, 2015 Share Posted November 18, 2015 I never understood why MMO's always over nerf then buff it back later, why not instead of a 50-75% nerf they try a 20-25% and see how it is then. Other MMOs have started to learn. Bioware has shown it is INCAPABLE of learning. "Your choices matter" after all. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
farfromnear Posted November 18, 2015 Share Posted November 18, 2015 So I did a log in and amazed after seeing the note of long time lines for patching went by smooth. Hate me know its ok .... but I did go and try a SF basic solo run... cause well my last repair bill was ... wow. What I did notice is that my comp out as a healer had a very noticeable delay in skills being utilized. Kind of like there was something written to say to the comp. Ok heal... now look at the shiny blah blah... oh hey back to a heal... see the shiny.... is that a healing button over there... shinnyyyy ..... On golds with a pack of other things around I would drop down to 10% without adding some sort of electro dart/crabonize ability into the mix. When I did do one of those two abilities... bam comp just seemed to stop doing anything. I sort of understand the method of madness that goes into making something last longer (see word search grinding reputation - WoW). Since well the holidays are coming and most of you already left for the year to go enjoy a beach somewhere or have been fired by EA since its a new expansion launch so why keep any of the code writers to last a whole series. But I just don't see the logic in this much of a companion nerf to make a very minutia of the community who is more vocal than the people who just want to enjoy the game outright. It was fun while it lasted but I am thinking this is a straw on a camels back. If there is no changes to revert back to comps being as fluid and effective as before 4.0.2 came out. I doubt I will be around to finish the story line. I don't need a second job, I want something I can enjoy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
-Highsteel- Posted November 18, 2015 Share Posted November 18, 2015 Just recently bought a gaming computer. Redownloaded/resubbed swtor that I originally played from launch. Loved the new storyline and gameplay. Was playing my butt off, finally enjoying this game after 4 years. Thought, damn BW finally got their act together. Looks like I jumped the gun on BW Dev intellect again. Also I have no problem being social and jumping into groups to do these heroics, they will just have to deal with my inaptness, but there is nobody ever around to do so. Or they already have a group of people they tend to stick with. GG BW, after 4 years you still never cease to amaze me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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