How strong is the Emperor's Wrath?

[Rhyltran]

Do you understand why I think that is ridiculous? To me, the force IS strong, but feats like that make it ridiculous. If they can do that, why even bother having a lightsaber battle, it makes no sense. If Vader can crush an AT AT, whats to stop him from crushing the emperor with the force?

 

To answer the bold it's known as being able to shield yourself with the force. The more powerful the force user the stronger their defenses. Vader couldn't just crush the Emperor because he's even stronger than that and Vader could not bypass his defenses.

 

You keep complaining about how powerful Force users have been portrayed in other mediums while ignoring the fact that you're playing a game where there's a guy who could literally mind control an entire planet's population and consume all life on a world.

 

You know who Vader wouldn't beat? The Emperor in SWTOR. Why use lightsabers? Simple. If you can't breach the other users force defenses that leaves one outcome. A good example of this is the Dooku and Yoda fight. Dooku couldn't best Yoda in a force display so he resorted to Lightsaber combat under the mistaken assumption that they were equals in the force. Yoda never made a serious force attack back at him. You claim there's no evidence in the movie but there is.

 

Dooku had proclaimed himself stronger than any Jedi. He proclaimed himself stronger than Yoda. He had just defeated Anakin and Obi Wan Kenobi. He initiated the fight with Yoda and given his force lightning when reflected back created an explosion against the ceiling (when Dooku deflected it again) shows it had enough power and it's intent was to kill.

 

So why after their force display comment on it has to be a lightsaber battle to decide the outcome? Then after engaging in Yoda why after only a few measly seconds flee as quickly as he could? You claim there's no evidence. Dooku ran for his life against Yoda. He was very intent on engaging and killing him but after a brief engagement chose to flee. When you have the leader of the opposing side's leader right there you don't do that if you have the upper hand. You do that when you know you can't win.

 

This is how debates like this are decided. Evidence. We were told Dooku ran. We were told Dooku wasn't a match but even without that to most people it was already clear based on that battle. Dooku ran from the fight.

[Kaedusz]

If Vader can crush an AT AT, whats to stop him from crushing the emperor with the force?

 

Force users are not just random physical objects that can be manipulated through the force with minimal effort. Every force user has an instinctive protective shield that guards vs manipulation, influence and force abilities. These shields are one of the first things any trainee learn. The more powerful and focused someone is, the harder it is to break through his shield. (this is not the same as Tutaminis)

Vader has almost no chance to break through Palpatine's shield in almost any circumstance.

Edited December 7, 2015 by Kaedusz

[Kaedusz]

 

You keep complaining about how powerful Force users have been portrayed in other mediums while ignoring the fact that you're playing a game where there's a guy who could literally mind control an entire planet's population and consume all life on a world.

 

The difference for the guy that can do that in the game is that this game and some media around it is the original source of this character. There was a build up with the Kotors and swtor works well with that.

 

Meanwhile the power disparities between post ep 6 EU and what is now ''disney'' canon for the characers that appear in both, makes this particular EU a joke and a ridiculous fan fiction to some people. And rightfully so. Not to mention that some of it was created before a huge chunk of the lore about the Sith was created, which makes it really low quality in other ways. It's just outdated irrelevant crap. It doesn't even feel like Star Wars as far as i am concerned.

Even the stuff that doesn't have the above mentioned problems is pure garbage. The Yuuzhan Vong for example.

Edited December 7, 2015 by Kaedusz

[adormitul]

Force users are not just random physical objects that can be manipulated through the force with minimal effort. Every force user has an instinctive protective shield that guards vs manipulation, influence and force abilities. These shields are one of the first things any trainee learn. The more powerful and focused someone is the harder it is to break through his shield. (this is not the same as Tutaminis)

Vader has almost no chance to break through Palpatine's shield in almost any circumstance.

 

Vader was quite good in breaking trough force shields but it was with force users below his abilities one time he crushed the heart of a force user. There very few who can resist his force attacks but Palapatine is one of them. The force shield depends on the force power of the user and most force users in Vader's time where below him in force power actually only 4 or 5 force users where not below him. Also in the EU he lost to Bobba Fett so there is some piss like in DC and Marvel comics.

[Rhyltran]

The difference for the guy that can do that in the game is that this game and some media around it is the original source of this character. There was a build up with the Kotors and swtor works well with that.

 

Meanwhile the power disparities between post ep EU and what is now ''disney'' canon for the characers that appear in both, makes this particular EU a joke and a ridiculous fan fiction to some people. And rightfully so. Not to mention that some of it was created before a huge chunk of the lore about the Sith was created, which makes it really low quality in other ways. It's just outdated irrelevant crap. It doesn't even feel like Star Wars as far as i am concerned.

Even the stuff that doesn't have the above mentioned problems is pure garbage. The Yuuzhan Vong for example.

 

But Disney Vader has more powerful showings than EU Vader. I was referring to Disney Canon in that "other mediums." Even in Disney Canon what they've shown of Vader and Sidious is downright impressive and still beyond what the movies have shown.

 

In Disney Canon vader charged down a long hallway and cut down a bunch of people before they could react. It was Disney Canon where Vader lifted up an AT-AT and began to crush it. It's Disney Canon that stated that Vader was able to maneuver his lightsaber so quickly that with over 20 training droids firing at him in all directions he was able to deflect all of them at once with his pure speed.

 

It was Disney Canon that stated that despite hundreds of blaster fire being leveled in his direction it was irrelevant because he was able to maneuver his lightsaber so quickly it became invisible with the air around him turning red as he created a barrier (with his lightsaber) preventing anything from getting to him.

 

There's a lot more too.

Edited December 7, 2015 by Rhyltran

[adormitul]

But Disney Vader has more powerful showings than EU Vader. I was referring to Disney Canon in that "other mediums." Even in Disney Canon what they've shown of Vader and Sidious is downright impressive and still beyond what the movies have shown.

 

Can you give some examples?

[Rhyltran]

Yeah, once you start pulling in legends or EU stuff you get versions that don't match the movies in any way shape or form. Nothing about Vader's sword form "in the movie" seemed even remotely impressive. By EU standards Luke is moving so fast he's up there with anime style DBZ/Bleach fighting moves, which yeah... Son Goku Skywalker, total beast of a fighter when he unleashes his Bankai light saber form.

 

Again though they have the story telling problem of "Show don't tell".

 

Don't tell me how awesome amazing wonderful impressive totally bestest ever sword style that Vader uses. Bad storytelling in the extreme.

 

In the new Disney Canon you realize they outright state Vader is a ****** and are showing him to be such? In the rebels series he lifts up two ATST's at the last second with one hand and his comic/book showings are already impressive. They don't seem to be letting up on the feats either.

 

http://www.comicvine.com/profile/americanspeeddemon/blog/first-blog-so-obviously-canon-darth-vader/106048/

 

Vader completed his meditation and opened his eyes. His pale, flame-savaged face stared back at him from out of the reflective black surface of his pressurized meditation chamber. Without the neural connection to his armor, he was conscious of the stumps of his legs, the ruin of his arm, the perpetual pain in his flesh. He welcomed it. Pain fed his hate, and hate fed his strength. Once, as a Jedi, he had meditated to find peace. Now he meditated to sharpen the edges of his anger.

 

He stared at his reflection a long time. His injuries had deformed his body, left it a ruin, but they’d perfected his spirit, strengthening his connection to the Force. Suffering had birthed insight.

 

-- Lords Of The Sith

 

Darth Vader is the ultimate instrument of the dark side.

 

--Rebels Confidential: Darth Vader | Star Wars Rebels | Official Disney XD UK HD

 

“Come, Darth Vader, you of all people should accept that some are born for greatness. That some are larger than life.”

 

Vader remained silent.

 

“Yes, Lord Vader—Tarkin.” Sidious softened his tone. “You are a true Sith, Lord Vader. Your dedication is unerring and your powers unparalleled. Perhaps, however, you are under the misimpression that only Sith and Jedi have trials to pass.”

 

-- Tarkin

 

http://static.comicvine.com/uploads/scale_super/11115/111155790/4371814-star+wars+%282015-%29+001-024.jpg

 

Notice the after images of his blade.

 

http://static.comicvine.com/uploads/scale_super/11115/111155790/4603564-darth+vader+006-005.jpg

 

Blocking blaster fire from all angles at once.

Vader was forty meters from her. He stood up straight, towering over the crew near him. He was looking right at her, his lightsaber held at his side, and she could feel the weight of his regard pressing against her like a punch. He exploded into motion, moving toward her at preternatural speed, his strides devouring the deck space between them. Crew scrambled out of the way at his approach, his dark form knifing through them.

 

She raised her blasters and took aim, shooting as fast as she could pull the triggers, scribing the air between them with lines of red energy. Vader didn't slow his sprint and his lightsaber was a blur as he came on, deflecting her shots in all directions. A few came back at her. One hit the pallet and sent tools skittering along the deck. Another scorched the bulkhead beside her, but still she fired.

 

The crew in the corridor panicked, scrambling in all directions. An officer got in Vader's way, slowing his approach for a moment, and Vader tossed him aside with his free hand as if the man weighed no more than a child.

 

Isval! Eshgo said from behind her.

 

Vader was twenty meters and closing.

 

She was shouting, firing, but her shots could not get past the line of his lightsaber. She didn't understand how it was possible, until her own words came back to her: Vader was not a man.

 

-- Lords Of The Sith

 

Since you claim he's slow and clumsy. Let's throw that in there.

The freighters opened fire, writing thick lines of plasma onto the air. The shots churned the ground, destroyed trees, heated the air of the clearing; one slammed into the chest of a Royal Guard and vaporized all of him save for his helmet.

 

Lost in the Force, Vader anticipated the shots that would have hit him, saw the appropriate angles of impact and deflection, and used the rapid spinning of his lightsaber to turn first one, then a second, and then a third shot not into the tree line but back at the ships, the heat and energy of the blaster shots driving him backward, warming the hilt of his weapon, a heat he could feel even through his glove.

 

-- Lords Of The Sith

 

Deflected blaster fire from a freighter.

Beak was shooting, too—Namir could hear the sound of energized particles scorching cold air across the hall, but he didn’t dare look. Vader didn’t hesitate or fall. Instead, something appeared in his hand between the pulses of crimson light and suddenly he was holding a weapon, a blade of coherent energy that danced with a twist of his wrist. If Vader had been protected by a force field, it appeared no longer necessary: His energy blade deflected bolts impossibly swiftly, humming and buzzing and crackling as it swept aside a storm of fire.

 

-- Battlefront: Twilight Company

 

Again, how fast he can move his lightsaber.

With preternatural speed the Emperor drew, ignited, and slashed at the girl with his lightsaber, but Vader had sensed his Master's intent and moved with greater speed, igniting his own blade and intercepting his Master's blow before it could land.

 

-- Lords Of The Sith

 

He beat Sidious in speed.

 

Note that Sidious was holding back but keeping up with Sidious in any capacity is impressive.

Those V-wings are coming back around, Goll said, firing down into the quarry at Vader, who was sprinting across the quarry's floor, coming on so fast that Cham would not have believed it had he not seen it. Isval had both pistols out and aimed, firing red lines at Vader. Cham was shooting as fast as he could, too, but Vader's blade was faster, deflecting every shot, sending fully half of them back at Isval and Cham and Goll, causing them to duck and cover.

 

When Vader reached the steep-walled side of the quarry he bounded up, caught a hold on some protuberance or other, crouched, and bounded up again.

 

That's impossible, Goll muttered, but he kept firing.

 

Isval knew better. She'd seen what Vader could do. Nothing he did surprised her.

 

And now he was coming for them.

 

They kept firing, leaning out over the lip of the quarry to fire down the steep side, but Vader's lightsaber turned the air red before him and none of their shots so much as touched him. He leapt from one spot to the next, ascending, pausing only for a moment upon landing to tense before leaping again and ascending farther.

 

His blade moved so fast he turned the air red in front of him preventing anyone from getting close.

 

Then there's this..

 

http://static.comicvine.com/uploads/scale_super/11115/111155790/4380317-0082750926-43734.jpg

 

In the new canon Vader isn't much different from the old Canon. I can find quotes that outright stated he blitzed past onlookers and cut down opponents before they could even register his presence. Canon Vader matches EU Vader really well in fact many of his best feats come from his canonical feats.

 

Marr loses in a one on one fight to Vader. He simply doesn't have the feats or accolades that put him on Vader's level. It doesn't matter if you want to use Disney Vader or EU Vader. He wins regardless.

 

 

This is a post I made to someone else. I'm too lazy to copy it all so here you go. These are all Canon feats for Vader.

Edited December 7, 2015 by Rhyltran

[Rhyltran]

Notice in one of those he's deflecting firepower from a freighter capable of disintegrating people and annihilating trees. He's not dropping his lightsaber here. Not only does he deflect them. He redirects the freighter's firepower back at the ships. Firepower capable of disintegrating a man.

 

Him lifting and crushing an AT-AT walker is huge. You can watch empire strikes back to see the walker to man size comparison with Luke. It's insane. Vader's showings easily show he can keep up with his EU counterpart.

Edited December 7, 2015 by Rhyltran

[adormitul]

Notice in one of those he's deflecting firepower from a freighter capable of disintegrating people and annihilating trees. He's not dropping his lightsaber here. Not only does he deflect them. He redirects the freighter's firepower back at the ships. Firepower capable of disintegrating a man.

 

Him lifting and crushing an AT-AT walker is huge. You can watch empire strikes back to see the walker to man size comparison with Luke. It's insane. Vader's showings easily show he can keep up with his EU counterpart.

 

Was that in the rebels series with the AT-AT I wanna see that thing.

[Rhyltran]

Was that in the rebels series with the AT-AT I wanna see that thing.

 

http://static.comicvine.com/uploads/scale_super/11115/111155790/4380317-0082750926-43734.jpg

 

It's right here. It's in a comic.

 

Also we're regularly told that Sidious > Vader even in the new Canon. So while they haven't done much to show Sidious off as of yet we can expect even more impressive feats than Vaders. I'm not so sure at this point if people can confidently say that Disney isn't going to make characters as powerful as the old EU characters. If Vader is this strong how strong is Luke now?

 

Truth is Disney still has the same people that were making the books and comics in the past. They let go some sure but it's the same people. Other writers they put on staff are those who usually write Marvel Comics. Disney also wants their products to sell and they know a large percentage of the star wars community likes how powerful certain characters are which is why we see them not lacking in the treatment of Vader. These all combine tell me that we're going to see some truly impressive characters. For people thinking they're going to tone down just how strong certain characters are I wouldn't hold your breath. Expect force users that can rival marvel super heroes.

Edited December 7, 2015 by Rhyltran

[adormitul]

http://static.comicvine.com/uploads/scale_super/11115/111155790/4380317-0082750926-43734.jpg

 

It's right here. It's in a comic.

 

Also we're regularly told that Sidious > Vader even in the new Canon. So while they haven't done much to show Sidious off as of yet we can expect even more impressive feats than Vaders. I'm not so sure at this point if people can confidently say that Disney isn't going to make characters as powerful as the old EU characters. If Vader is this strong how strong is Luke now?

 

I presume that he did not managed to finish the job as the walker manged to shoot?

[Rhyltran]

I presume that he did not managed to finish the job as the walker manged to shoot?

 

Yes. In fact he was hit by the blasts from the walker and survived it. He pulled himself up from the rubble but by then the facility was so damaged it was in danger of exploding.

 

As mentioned, Vader is very equivalent to his EU self. The explosive power of the walker which creates explosions on impact couldn't bring Vader down.

 

The reason Vader was even hit was out of surprise. The Walker's guns weren't even hooked up. That's what the Jawas were doing in the background. Vader didn't think it could fire on him. Han Solo, not having the blasters initially hooked up, decided his best bet was to step on Vader. Which didn't work as Vader stopped the Walker's foot from coming down on him and began to lift it off the ground crushing it.

Edited December 7, 2015 by Rhyltran

[marvinx]

Yes. In fact he was hit by the blasts from the walker and survived it. He pulled himself up from the rubble but by then the facility was so damaged it was in danger of exploding.

 

As mentioned, Vader is very equivalent to his EU self. The explosive power of the walker which creates explosions on impact couldn't bring Vader down.

 

The reason Vader was even hit was out of surprise. The Walker's guns weren't even hooked up. That's what the Jawas were doing in the background. Vader didn't think it could fire on him. Han Solo, not having the blasters initially hooked up, decided his best bet was to step on Vader. Which didn't work as Vader stopped the Walker's foot from coming down on him and began to lift it off the ground crushing it.

 

Sorry i am new to the conversation, but though i agree that Vader is still as awesome in the new continuity, as in the old EU. I think that the part of the EU, with the world eating character feats won't appear. Even though it is clear in "lordts of the sith" that Sidius wasn't fighting at full power, they seem to have toned him quite a bit down from the giant fleet eating force storms, and i hope they don't resume Luke's god mode This was not really an argument against your assesment of Vader, but rather a way for me to slip into the conversation Anyway, about the Wrath i find him very difficult to place. Especially since it is difficult to compare him to characters who aren't in game. As the wrath story is kind of your own Vader like story, i usually think of him as a Vader equal, though that is just "my wrath"

[lukewarcriminal]

comparing canon with expanded u is kind of pointless especially when u're gonna sue arguments like "G.Lucas said sidious is strongest so fuuuuuu" etc.

i think Wrath would have more than a huge chance to beat any of these guys, dooku for sure. considering that TOR times are the times when force powers are at the peak, ancient rituals long forgotten in movies times are here and now. most pwoerful users in history are alive and fight among themselves, pushing their boundries until their chains are broken don't understimate our little wrath

 

He made master jedi turn DS, he has beaten multiple jedi masters, monsters, darths, lords like they were nothing. i think every single one of these duels could last for days until someone would lose focus/stamina. And remember we don't know true potential of wrath yet. Kotfe has still few chapters to come. Wrath is still young and his power will grow, while let's say dooku even if he is even with wrath now, he won't after Kotfe (thats actually my educated guess )

Edited December 9, 2015 by lukewarcriminal

[Kaedusz]

comparing canon with expanded u is kind of pointless especially when u're gonna sue arguments like "G.Lucas said sidious is strongest so fuuuuuu" etc.

i think Wrath would have more than a huge chance to beat any of these guys, dooku for sure. considering that TOR times are the times when force powers are at the peak, ancient rituals long forgotten in movies times are here and now. most pwoerful users in history are alive and fight among themselves, pushing their boundries until their chains are broken don't understimate our little wrath

 

He made master jedi turn DS, he has beaten multiple jedi masters, monsters, darths, lords like they were nothing. i think every single one of these duels could last for days until someone would lose focus/stamina. And remember we don't know true potential of wrath yet. Kotfe has still few chapters to come. Wrath is still young and his power will grow, while let's say dooku even if he is even with wrath now, he won't after Kotfe (thats actually my educated guess )

this is mostly correct

Edited December 10, 2015 by Kaedusz

[lukewarcriminal]

this is mostly correct

 

wow its like the 1st time in the history of forums that someone agreed with somebody elses opinion. give that man a drink!

[ConVallian]

Well in this game isn't the main point of the classes other than the IA..supposed to be counterparts to the movie characters? SW=Vader SI=Sidious Knight=Kenobi/skywalker consular=yoda so isnt it safe to assume the Sith Warrior is his era's Darth Vader? i believe he is every bit VAder's equal, not in potential ofc but it terms of combat practicality. You can show pages of feats and i still won't believe the PT era jedi/sith are more powerful than their OR counterparts nor can you convince me the OR force users are stronger than their PT counterparts. Their all powerful. You can be labelled the strongest. but that doesnt mean no one else is a threat to you. You can win a MMA championship but that doesnt mean the other fighters are not a threat to you anymore. You can say well GL said this but, these games are here to make you feel as epic as the characters from the movies so to me yor PC is every bit as good as the movie characters Edited December 11, 2015 by ConVallian

[adormitul]

Who is the trooper equivalent of?

[ConVallian]

Who is the trooper equivalent of?

 

Just the idea of trooper, pt had clones. ot had stormtroopers, swtor just had soldiers

[Jarons]

Well in this game isn't the main point of the classes other than the IA..supposed to be counterparts to the movie characters? SW=Vader SI=Sidious Knight=Kenobi/skywalker consular=yoda so isnt it safe to assume the Sith Warrior is his era's Darth Vader? i believe he is every bit VAder's equal, not in potential ofc but it terms of combat practicality. You can show pages of feats and i still won't believe the PT era jedi/sith are more powerful than their OR counterparts nor can you convince me the OR force users are stronger than their PT counterparts. Their all powerful. You can be labelled the strongest. but that doesnt mean no one else is a threat to you. You can win a MMA championship but that doesnt mean the other fighters are not a threat to you anymore. You can say well GL said this but, these games are here to make you feel as epic as the characters from the movies so to me yor PC is every bit as good as the movie characters

You should read this.

 

Truly when someone points out your wrong and someone is stronger than another person with proof just accept that and you can learn something new.The Pt era Jedi and Sith are stronger and would more than likely defeat their OR counterparts hands down.

[adormitul]

You should read this.

 

Truly when someone points out your wrong and someone is stronger than another person with proof just accept that and you can learn something new.The Pt era Jedi and Sith are stronger and would more than likely defeat their OR counterparts hands down.

 

Before I comment on this where does Pt comes from?

[Jarons]

Before I comment on this where does Pt comes from?

Am sorry but I don't understand your question are you asking what does it mean or what started the term?

[adormitul]

Am sorry but I don't understand your question are you asking what does it mean or what started the term?

 

Well OR means Old Republic what does Pt means?

[PadsterPwns]

Well OR means Old Republic what does Pt means?

PT stands for Prequel Trilogy.

[Rhyltran]

Well in this game isn't the main point of the classes other than the IA..supposed to be counterparts to the movie characters? SW=Vader SI=Sidious Knight=Kenobi/skywalker consular=yoda so isnt it safe to assume the Sith Warrior is his era's Darth Vader? i believe he is every bit VAder's equal, not in potential ofc but it terms of combat practicality. You can show pages of feats and i still won't believe the PT era jedi/sith are more powerful than their OR counterparts nor can you convince me the OR force users are stronger than their PT counterparts. Their all powerful. You can be labelled the strongest. but that doesnt mean no one else is a threat to you. You can win a MMA championship but that doesnt mean the other fighters are not a threat to you anymore. You can say well GL said this but, these games are here to make you feel as epic as the characters from the movies so to me yor PC is every bit as good as the movie characters

 

The Sith Inquisitor is nowhere close to Sidious level. If he was he wouldn't have needed a strike team to bring down Revan. Nor would he need help against Arcann or anyone else. Given the fact that Sidious is the most powerful Sith Lord in existence. Likewise, the Sith Warrior is not Vader's level. His accolades and feats do not back that assessment up. The Sith Warrior is closer to Maul level and it is very much believed that the Knight is Obi Wan level so that's at least correct.