How strong is the Emperor's Wrath?

[PadsterPwns]

I said it in the context that we don't have enough information about him,nor any swtor protagonist for that matter, in order for a proper evaluation of him to be made. His story is still in the making and he is not done yet.

(I said that as a continuation of the previous post i made, in page four i believe.)

 

Not to mention that we can't say where gameplay mechanics stop and where real info about him or any of the player characters begin.

 

Is the Wrath's story continuing? We can say that the class story + RotHC + SoR is all part of the Wrath's story but what about KotFE? As far as I know KotFE is about "the Outlander" so can any KotFE feats actually be given to the Wrath, given that any class can do them?

 

As far as game mechanics go, most threads I've debated in usually use cutscenes as solid evidence and some gameplay evidence (e.g reasonable abilities, one for the Wrath being Force Blast).

[Kaedusz]

any class

 

An interesting point. I hope at key confrontations and moments every class will be given his unique ways to deal with a situation, in future chapters. Just using a blaster instead of a saber in random fighting scenes is not enough.

Edited November 22, 2015 by Kaedusz

[PadsterPwns]

An interesting point. I hope at key confrontations and moments every class will be given his unique ways to deal with a situation, in future chapters. Just using a blaster instead of a saber in random fighting scenes is not enough.

 

I agree, the way it is now doesn't really help the community as it creates issues like this.

 

The only thing I did want to ask is how do we know the Wrath hasn't reached his prime?

[Rhyltran]

I agree, the way it is now doesn't really help the community as it creates issues like this.

 

The only thing I did want to ask is how do we know the Wrath hasn't reached his prime?

 

His age. I will say that. The characters in SWTOR are all young and they make a point about that. It's why you can't actually make an old character. Most characters in star wars don't peak out until they're 50+. Given that we probably started around 18-19 our characters still have quite the room to grow. Think about the level of experience Dooku has over say the wrath given his age.

Edited November 22, 2015 by Rhyltran

[Jarons]

His age. I will say that. The characters in SWTOR are all young and they make a point about that. It's why you can't actually make an old character. Most characters in star wars don't peak out until they're 50+. Given that we probably started around 18-19 our characters still have quite the room to grow. Think about the level of experience Dooku has over say the wrath given his age.

People need to remember for at least Nox and the Wraith they will/should reach their Prime before the HOT and Consular since the Dark Side is faster than the light.So while it might take the HOT to age 60 to reach his prime but for the wraith it would be 30.

[PadsterPwns]

His age. I will say that. The characters in SWTOR are all young and they make a point about that. It's why you can't actually make an old character. Most characters in star wars don't peak out until they're 50+. Given that we probably started around 18-19 our characters still have quite the room to grow. Think about the level of experience Dooku has over say the wrath given his age.

 

While that is true, what else can the Wrath do to indicate him reaching his prime? We pretty much know that he is a master of a myriad of forms and going by how SWTOR seems to go, there isn't that much he can improve upon. Even then we don't really know if we will get to see this as so far all the feats in KotFE are applicable to all of the classes or only applicable to "The Outlander", either way it means that the Wrath may not actually get anymore feats.

 

Another issue is that saying he is pre-prime isn't as clear cut for the Wrath as saying someone is post-prime, as with most post-prime characters we know roughly how far they have deteriorated, such an example being Yoda. We know that his speed has decreased but only slightly and we know that his Alter abilities have likely deteriorated due to his inability to lift all six Muntuur stones, though admittedly we don't know how much his Alter abilities have declined. In comparison, with a character like the Wrath, we have no idea what his prime should or would be like, which then either leads to a no limit fallacy or an answer that is pure speculation.

Edited November 22, 2015 by PadsterPwns

[Rhyltran]

While that is true, what else can the Wrath do to indicate him reaching his prime? We pretty much know that he is a master of a myriad of forms and going by how SWTOR seems to go, there isn't that much he can improve upon. Even then we don't really know if we will get to see this as so far all the feats in KotFE are applicable to all of the classes or only applicable to "The Outlander", either way it means that the Wrath may not actually get anymore feats.

 

Another issue is that saying he is pre-prime isn't as clear cut for the Wrath as saying someone is post-prime, as with most post-prime characters we know roughly how far they have deteriorated, such an example being Yoda. We know that his speed has decreased but only slightly and we know that his Alter abilities have likely deteriorated due to his inability to lift all six Muntuur stones, though admittedly we don't know how much his Alter abilities have declined. In comparison, with a character like the Wrath, we have no idea what his prime should or would be like, which then either leads to a no limit fallacy or an answer that is pure speculation.

 

Oh, I'm aware of this. I'm not making an argument for Wrath. I'm merely stating that it is technically true that he isn't in his prime but that doesn't mean we can compare him to characters we know he doesn't measure up to. It's like trying to argue Anakin should be above Luke Skywalker because as the chosen one he should have the greatest potential. We never realize this potential so it doesn't really matter. As for Jarons claiming that dark side users clock out at 30 years old.. this isn't true. Dooku became more powerful during Sidious tutelage than he was prior to it. Not to mention we know Sidious had become stronger from episode I to Episode III and from Episode III to episode VI.

 

You can't make the argument that Dark Side users hit their peak at 30 years old when we have so many examples of even old dark siders getting more powerful. It simply doesn't work that way. In factVader also became stronger from his time as Anakin to his time as Lord Vader. Plagueis too kept growing up until his death.

[Jarons]

Oh, I'm aware of this. I'm not making an argument for Wrath. I'm merely stating that it is technically true that he isn't in his prime but that doesn't mean we can compare him to characters we know he doesn't measure up to. It's like trying to argue Anakin should be above Luke Skywalker because as the chosen one he should have the greatest potential. We never realize this potential so it doesn't really matter. As for Jarons claiming that dark side users clock out at 30 years old.. this isn't true. Dooku became more powerful during Sidious tutelage than he was prior to it. Not to mention we know Sidious had become stronger from episode I to Episode III and from Episode III to episode VI.

 

You can't make the argument that Dark Side users hit their peak at 30 years old when we have so many examples of even old dark siders getting more powerful. It simply doesn't work that way. In factVader also became stronger from his time as Anakin to his time as Lord Vader. Plagueis too kept growing up until his death.

Rhyltran I think your confused by my point its that Dark Siders ingame usually hit their prime faster than their light side counter part.That's why I compared him to the HOT.The HOT could reach his prime when he is 60 while the Wrath can reach it by half that time by nature of the Dark side its faster than the light side.

[Rhyltran]

Rhyltran I think your confused by my point its that Dark Siders ingame usually hit their prime faster than their light side counter part.That's why I compared him to the HOT.The HOT could reach his prime when he is 60 while the Wrath can reach it by half that time by nature of the Dark side its faster than the light side.

 

What makes you think the characters in game hit their respective peaks faster than each other? There's no indication of this. The consular has defeated a Jedi master by Coruscant. Every class story involving the force users have them getting greater and greater feats as time goes on. What gives you the indication that the wrath has hit his peak? I think you're overblowing just how much faster the dark side is. The dark side is like a shortcut but that doesn't mean mastering it is easy. The initial boost is easier but true mastery still takes years and devotion. I can't think of a single dark sider who hit their peak at 30 and at 60+ stayed exactly the same. Dark Siders, just like Light Siders, continuously gain more power until the dark side itself cripples them.

[PadsterPwns]

Oh, I'm aware of this. I'm not making an argument for Wrath. I'm merely stating that it is technically true that he isn't in his prime but that doesn't mean we can compare him to characters we know he doesn't measure up to. It's like trying to argue Anakin should be above Luke Skywalker because as the chosen one he should have the greatest potential. We never realize this potential so it doesn't really matter. As for Jarons claiming that dark side users clock out at 30 years old.. this isn't true. Dooku became more powerful during Sidious tutelage than he was prior to it. Not to mention we know Sidious had become stronger from episode I to Episode III and from Episode III to episode VI.

 

You can't make the argument that Dark Side users hit their peak at 30 years old when we have so many examples of even old dark siders getting more powerful. It simply doesn't work that way. In factVader also became stronger from his time as Anakin to his time as Lord Vader. Plagueis too kept growing up until his death.

 

Honestly I don't really know why there's been an increase in game character vs established character threads recently.

 

As for the point Jarons made, I was going to say the same as you did but then I remembered ROTS Sids vs ROTS Yoda and it made me unsure. Then I remembered that Sids was pre-prime, whilst Yoda was weakened and post-prime. I just wanted to ask, have you considered taking part in Conquest?

[Parsifal_]

That's your thoughts.

Why the heck Wrath should lose? He is not a random sith, but one of the best lightsaber warriors in the galaxy, more than match for Dooku or Vader. Nox is one of the most powerful force users as well (even without his ghosts).

By the way, in movies we don't see almost nothing except common telekinesis and force lightning nobody was killed by.

Well, it is stated by George Lucas that Luke Skywalker is the most powerful Force user of all times, and that his Force potential is twice that of Palpatine's, and that Vader/Anakin has/had the same potential as Luke - although weakened and restricted through his injuries; using Force lightning, for example, would have fried Vader's life support systems. But during Ep VI Luke had only a fraction of the training and experience he could have had through old-style Jedi training. A few more years of training, and I have no doubt that he could have crushed the Emperor easily.

 

And Count Dooku, despite of being more powerful as a Sith than what he ever was as a Jedi, eventually lost to Anakin.

 

Good luck for Wrath or Nox trying to beat anyone of that quality.

Edited November 23, 2015 by Parsifal_

[Rhyltran]

Honestly I don't really know why there's been an increase in game character vs established character threads recently.

 

As for the point Jarons made, I was going to say the same as you did but then I remembered ROTS Sids vs ROTS Yoda and it made me unsure. Then I remembered that Sids was pre-prime, whilst Yoda was weakened and post-prime. I just wanted to ask, have you considered taking part in Conquest?

 

I'm currently getting ready to move so I don't have a lot of time to truly debate. In the "most powerful" thread there's a lot I want to say but I just don't have the time. I pop in occasionally but yeah. I used to be more prominent on these boards back in the day.

[PadsterPwns]

I'm currently getting ready to move so I don't have a lot of time to truly debate. In the "most powerful" thread there's a lot I want to say but I just don't have the time. I pop in occasionally but yeah. I used to be more prominent on these boards back in the day.

 

That's unfortunate, I hope moving goes well. Also your not missing much in the "most powerful" thread atm.

[StarMagus]

Are you counting Movie versions of them or EU versions of them. The difference in power level between all of those characters in the movies and the EU is HUGE?

[Kaedusz]

Are you counting Movie versions of them or EU versions of them. The difference in power level between all of those characters in the movies and the EU is HUGE?

 

As far as i am concerned the proper version of a character is the one of his origin,especially when there are disparities.

Edited November 25, 2015 by Kaedusz

[Rhyltran]

As far as i am concerned the proper version of a character is the one of his origin,especially when there are disparities.

 

That's your opinion. It's fair for someone to disagree.

[MarcheseAMM]

Here's a collection of the Wrath's feats / hype: http://www.comicvine.com/profile/darthant66/blog/the-emperor-s-wrath-respect-thread/103818/ Edited November 30, 2015 by MarcheseAMM

[Kaedusz]

Here's a collection of the Wrath's feats / hype: http://www.comicvine.com/profile/darthant66/blog/the-emperor-s-wrath-respect-thread/103818/

 

This is great. Now i have to put my Sentinel on hold and level a Juggernaut again...

[Kaedusz]

• Battle of Ruusan Jedi Order fought Sith routinely.
   
  
• PT Jedi Order didn't fight Sith routinely.
   
  
• PT Jedi Oder > Ruusan Jedi Order:
  

That had been the case with the Jedi Order. For two hundred years before the coming of Darth Sidious the power of the dark side had been gaining strength, and yet the Jedi had made only minimal efforts to thwart it. The Sith were pleased by the fact that the Jedi, too, had been allowed to grow so powerful, because, in the end, their sense of entitlement would blind them to what was occurring in their midst.

—Labyrinth of Evil

 

Case closed.

The Brotherhood of Darkness is probably the worst incarnation of Sith ever, which ofc doesn't mean much, since they are still Sith.

* * *

Yoda + 1 or 2 max more are good,every1 else nothing special in comparison. This quote is ambiguous at best with little validity in the contenxt.

Edited December 7, 2015 by Kaedusz

[Tacoscent]

I believe its all up the the individual how strong they rank. Unless the creators actually say, its just our own opinion. I won't try to convince anyone of it. I think Darth Vader would lose to the wrath though. We never see Darth Vadar as an actual powerhouse, he lost to Obi wan and didn't really get THAT much stronger afterwards, he couldn't take Palpatine down after all.

 

I believe in a very long extended fight, Mace might beat him, I think the Wrath might have to either overwhelm him very quickly, or he would either lose or it would end in a stalemate.

 

Yoda, it could swing either way, but as one of the most powerful Jedi from any era, ever, I'm gonna say Yoda wins. I don't think the Wrath would be dumb enough to get into a fight he couldn't win though. I think he would certainly be strong enough to be able to retreat.

 

Dooku, HAH. Dooku is probably the better swordsman, but I think the Wrath takes it. Dooku lost to Vadar, who lost to Obiwan, and Dooku destroyed Obiwan. Dooku loses to the Wrath.

 

This is all my opinion, if you choose to argue with it or say I'm wrong you're literally an idiot who just wants to see his own words out in the world to make yourself feel special or superior. This is all just us being nerds and having fun. All of it is hypothetical and there is no way for any of us to ACTUALLY know.

Edited December 7, 2015 by Tacoscent

[Rhyltran]

We never see Darth Vadar as an actual powerhouse

 

Read some of the books and comics before speculating. Vader has moved faster than the eye can follow, lifted up an AT-AT with one hand crushing it effortlessly, and more. We have seen him be a power house.

 

We may not "know" for sure but there is a thing called speculating based on fact and "Random opinion." You can make an educated guess based on evidence without it being entirely guesswork. In real life you can find out how things work by using this all the time. Calling anyone who disagrees with you an idiot is also a logical fallacy. People who regularly commit logical fallacies (especially end on them) don't really have the right to call someone's intelligence into question.

 

Especially if it's evident right from the get go that you're entering a debate with no desire to actually enter a discussion and with very little knowledge on the subject matter that you're talking about.

Edited December 7, 2015 by Rhyltran

[Tacoscent]

Read some of the books and comics before speculating. Vader has moved faster than the eye can follow, lifted up an AT-AT with one hand crushing it effortlessly, and more. We have seen him be a power house.

 

We may not "know" for sure but there is a thing called speculating based on fact and "Random opinion." You can make an educated guess based on evidence without it being entirely guesswork. In real life you can find out how things work by using this all the time. Calling anyone who disagrees with you an idiot is also a logical fallacy. People who regularly commit logical fallacies (especially end on them) don't really have the right to call someone's intelligence into question.

 

Especially if it's evident right from the get go that you're entering a debate with no desire to actually enter a discussion and with very little knowledge on the subject matter that you're talking about.

 

Excuse me while I roll my eyes at your attempt to try and make yourself out to be superior in both knowledge and intelligence. I said the people who argue with me are idiots because, its all hypothetical. Darth Vader can crush an AT AT apparently but can't beat a half trained Jedi in Luke Skywalker. Uh huh. Darth Sidious can apparently destroy an entire planet with a force storm but loses to Luke and Vader, and fights to a stalemate with Yoda. Uh huh. Books and comics are in my opinion worthless. Anytime there is a comic especially, powers etc are blown up to ridiculous proportions far past what ever happened in the movies. It is stupid in my opinion.

 

By all means blow Vader up to be the Superman of the Star Wars universe if you like. The Batman community is one of the most cancerous on the internet because they all believe he's "SO SMART" that with "prep time" and his "peak human" this and that, that he simply wins over any adversary because "prep time", "peak human", and "billions". If you want Vader to be cancer, then please continue listing his ridiculous accolades from comics and books that were only put there to sell copies, not because they made any logical sense.

 

Dooku fought Yoda and was never really in danger of losing, although he eventually would have. The same Dooku then took out Obiwan like he was yesterdays breakfast but lost to Aniken, who then lost to Obiwan. Yoda could certainly beat human Vader and Obiwan at the same time, no question. Once you are at a certain level of the force, its anybodys game. The Wrath, Sidious, Yoda, Windu, Dooku, they all could probably beat each other on different days in different situations.

 

It is idiotic to argue over something that has no concrete answer. It is a waste of time. So use your blah blah logical fallacy crap all you want, it still doesn't change the fact I am correct. I stated my opinion, and I don't care for someone elses, its just my own. Everyone has a different way of interpreting things, so there are no real FACTS in Star Wars unless George Lucas says they are. How you see something may be different from how I see it. All of this is 100% hypothetical and, on top of that, it isn't even real, LOL. There is no way to tell who would actually win.

 

Also feel free to correct me on any grammar mistakes too, you seem like you're THAT guy.

Edited December 7, 2015 by Tacoscent

[Rhyltran]

Excuse me while I roll my eyes at your attempt to try and make yourself out to be superior in both knowledge and intelligence. I said the people who argue with me are idiots because, its all hypothetical. Darth Vader can crush an AT AT apparently but can't beat a half trained Jedi in Luke Skywalker.

 

The bold is known as a strawman. I have never made this claim or implied as such. For the record that's another logical fallacy. I will state that you should stay away from discussion or debate. You are ill suited for it. I have claimed to be more knowledgeable in star wars. Given that you discounted books and comics (which are canon, even the new Disney Canon has declared the new books and comics as such) proves that your knowledge of star wars is very limited. In fact the italicized has actually been explained. If you would read the books or comics you would know the answer to this. Unfortunately you don't and like most people who have a large ego would rather make excuses for your lack of star wars knowledge than own up to it.

 

I'm not going to fault you on your grammar but I will call you out for your hypocrisy.

 

P.S. Dooku was very much close to losing. That's why he ran away. I have sources that state as much. Dooku was not on Yoda's level. This is admitted in many Canon sources. Certain things might be speculation but if we're told in a canon source "So and so is the greatest swordsman" then if we ever speculate what would occur in a duel between two others (strictly a lightsaber duel) and they share the same style it's logical to claim person A) would defeat person B) because that is the likely scenario. You're entitled to your opinions but I can just as likely claim that your opinions are based on misinformation and therefore incorrect.

 

http://www.comicvine.com/profile/shootingnova/blog/rebellion-era-luke-skywalker-respect-thread/102111/

 

Here is some education in regards to rebellion era Luke Skywalker.

 

As for you stating that you are correct. You can state it as much as you want. You can claim it as much as you want. You saying something doesn't make it true. You saying that you're right doesn't make it so. It may be true that this is all make believe but you know what is real? Your argument on this "internet discussion." which is lacking.

Edited December 7, 2015 by Rhyltran

[Tacoscent]

The bold is known as a strawman. I have never made this claim or implied as such. For the record that's another logical fallacy. I will state that you should stay away from discussion or debate. You are ill suited for it. I have claimed to be more knowledgeable in star wars. Given that you discounted books and comics (which are canon, even the new Disney Canon has declared the new books and comics as such) proves that your knowledge of star wars is very limited. In fact the italicized has actually been explained. If you would read the books or comics you would know the answer to this. Unfortunately you don't and like most people who have a large ego would rather make excuses for your lack of star wars knowledge than own up to it.

 

I'm not going to fault you on your grammar but I will call you out for your hypocrisy.

 

P.S. Dooku was very much close to losing. That's why he ran away. I have sources that state as much. Dooku was not on Yoda's level. This is admitted in many Canon sources. Certain things might be speculation but if we're told in a canon source "So and so is the greatest swordsman" then if we ever speculate what would occur in a duel between two others (strictly a lightsaber duel) and they share the same style it's logical to claim person A) would defeat person B) because that is the likely scenario. You're entitled to your opinions but I can just as likely claim that your opinions are based on misinformation and therefore incorrect.

 

http://www.comicvine.com/profile/shootingnova/blog/rebellion-era-luke-skywalker-respect-thread/102111/

 

Here is some education in regards to rebellion era Luke Skywalker.

 

As for you stating that you are correct. You can state it as much as you want. You can claim it as much as you want. You saying something doesn't make it true. You saying that you're right doesn't make it so. It may be true that this is all make believe but you know what is real? Your argument on this "internet discussion." which is lacking.

 

Then we will have to agree to disagree. You saw Dooku losing, I didn't. It never showed Dooku strained or scared or anything. Do I believe Dooku could beat Yoda? No. But I think he was enough of a challenge to Yoda that it isn't a cakewalk. Dooku is not the kind of opponent that Yoda can give even the tiniest inch to.

 

And there is more proof by me saying I am right, in that, actually trying to find a real answer to all of this is dumb. The way you perceived the fight is different that how I saw it. Based on this, and all the other opinions and things out there, there is no real answer, unless it comes from George Lucas.

 

I understand that, there are things limited in the movies especially the orginals, and they didn't have fancy effects etc to really show the force off, but in the movies the characters never came across as powerful, and then you say something like "Vader can crush an AT AT with his hand effortlessly." Do you understand why I think that is ridiculous? To me, the force IS strong, but feats like that make it ridiculous. If they can do that, why even bother having a lightsaber battle, it makes no sense. If Vader can crush an AT AT, whats to stop him from crushing the emperor with the force?

 

Its just dumb to me. And in MY personal view, regardless of what canon says, George never portrayed the force to be powerful on that level in the movies. Even in the Clone Wars show, it was nowhere near comic book levels. Not even close. I think Vader is strong, but not so strong as to not have a serious chance at losing to guys like the Wrath or Darth Marr if he makes a mistake.

 

I think its really silly that people always say the originals have to be the best. Lucas said Luke is the strongest. And that is ok with me. I personally don't see it, but ok. I just do not like it when things are blown up to be something they are not. And to me, the force is not something that can be wielded to the point where someone is basically a god. Its a powerful tool that they use in addition to their lightsaber. Crushing an AT AT, sure, I could believe it. But only with the utmost focus and huge amount of effort from any user attempting the feat. Making it effortless trivializes the force and makes everyone who has not done such a thing, whether they had the power to or not, seem weak by comparison, when they are most certainly not.

[Jarons]

Excuse me while I roll my eyes at your attempt to try and make yourself out to be superior in both knowledge and intelligence. I said the people who argue with me are idiots because, its all hypothetical. Darth Vader can crush an AT AT apparently but can't beat a half trained Jedi in Luke Skywalker. Uh huh. Darth Sidious can apparently destroy an entire planet with a force storm but loses to Luke and Vader, and fights to a stalemate with Yoda. Uh huh. Books and comics are in my opinion worthless. Anytime there is a comic especially, powers etc are blown up to ridiculous proportions far past what ever happened in the movies. It is stupid in my opinion.

 

By all means blow Vader up to be the Superman of the Star Wars universe if you like. The Batman community is one of the most cancerous on the internet because they all believe he's "SO SMART" that with "prep time" and his "peak human" this and that, that he simply wins over any adversary because "prep time", "peak human", and "billions". If you want Vader to be cancer, then please continue listing his ridiculous accolades from comics and books that were only put there to sell copies, not because they made any logical sense.

 

Dooku fought Yoda and was never really in danger of losing, although he eventually would have. The same Dooku then took out Obiwan like he was yesterdays breakfast but lost to Aniken, who then lost to Obiwan. Yoda could certainly beat human Vader and Obiwan at the same time, no question. Once you are at a certain level of the force, its anybodys game. The Wrath, Sidious, Yoda, Windu, Dooku, they all could probably beat each other on different days in different situations.

 

It is idiotic to argue over something that has no concrete answer. It is a waste of time. So use your blah blah logical fallacy crap all you want, it still doesn't change the fact I am correct. I stated my opinion, and I don't care for someone elses, its just my own. Everyone has a different way of interpreting things, so there are no real FACTS in Star Wars unless George Lucas says they are. How you see something may be different from how I see it. All of this is 100% hypothetical and, on top of that, it isn't even real, LOL. There is no way to tell who would actually win.

 

Also feel free to correct me on any grammar mistakes too, you seem like you're THAT guy.

 

Then we will have to agree to disagree. You saw Dooku losing, I didn't. It never showed Dooku strained or scared or anything. Do I believe Dooku could beat Yoda? No. But I think he was enough of a challenge to Yoda that it isn't a cakewalk. Dooku is not the kind of opponent that Yoda can give even the tiniest inch to.

 

And there is more proof by me saying I am right, in that, actually trying to find a real answer to all of this is dumb. The way you perceived the fight is different that how I saw it. Based on this, and all the other opinions and things out there, there is no real answer, unless it comes from George Lucas.

 

I understand that, there are things limited in the movies especially the orginals, and they didn't have fancy effects etc to really show the force off, but in the movies the characters never came across as powerful, and then you say something like "Vader can crush an AT AT with his hand effortlessly." Do you understand why I think that is ridiculous? To me, the force IS strong, but feats like that make it ridiculous. If they can do that, why even bother having a lightsaber battle, it makes no sense. If Vader can crush an AT AT, whats to stop him from crushing the emperor with the force?

 

Its just dumb to me. And in MY personal view, regardless of what canon says, George never portrayed the force to be powerful on that level in the movies. Even in the Clone Wars show, it was nowhere near comic book levels. Not even close. I think Vader is strong, but not so strong as to not have a serious chance at losing to guys like the Wrath or Darth Marr if he makes a mistake.

 

I think its really silly that people always say the originals have to be the best. Lucas said Luke is the strongest. And that is ok with me. I personally don't see it, but ok. I just do not like it when things are blown up to be something they are not. And to me, the force is not something that can be wielded to the point where someone is basically a god. Its a powerful tool that they use in addition to their lightsaber. Crushing an AT AT, sure, I could believe it. But only with the utmost focus and huge amount of effort from any user attempting the feat. Making it effortless trivializes the force and makes everyone who has not done such a thing, whether they had the power to or not, seem weak by comparison, when they are most certainly not.

 

You should read this.It will hopefully open your eyes and you will see how much your opinion really doesn't matter.

 

Truthfully I feel like I lost brain cells reading your post it's shocking.How something can just utterly ignore information that proves them wrong and they still post non sense like this.