ZanyaCross Posted December 15, 2015 Share Posted December 15, 2015 How is 23 Jailbait? Age in the game is an arbitrary number. She looks and acts like a sixteen-year old. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
efffel Posted December 15, 2015 Share Posted December 15, 2015 Age in the game is an arbitrary number. She looks and acts like a sixteen-year old. Do they really base time on the planetary rotation of a planet in a galaxy far away in the long future? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Analyst Posted December 15, 2015 Share Posted December 15, 2015 Do they really base time on the planetary rotation of a planet in a galaxy far away in the long future? Isn't it more like "long past"? Planetary rotation is a convenient way of time measurement. I am not sure if the rotation of Shili (if Ashara is from there) differs from our planet so much. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StarMagus Posted December 15, 2015 Share Posted December 15, 2015 Isn't it more like "long past"? Planetary rotation is a convenient way of time measurement. I am not sure if the rotation of Shili (if Ashara is from there) differs from our planet so much. Age is measured not based off of years from your home planet but off of the galactic standard calendar. Which just so happens to measure 1 year as 1 Earth year... just to keep things easier. Her age was determined because they give the Galactic Standard Year that she was born, and it's 22 years after that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StarMagus Posted December 15, 2015 Share Posted December 15, 2015 Those who think Cedrax and Holiday's romance is creepy is likely only thinking it because it's between a human and a sentient hologram. Been done in other mediums to no problem, and I wonder if those who think it's creepy are just upset they couldn't romance Cedrax or that he breaks off a relationship for Holiday before one can start. I think people think it's creepy because if Cedrax even thinks of leaving her she starts destroying his ****. I'd call any romance with a girl that if you tell her you are breaking things off she goes and slashes up your bed, breakes your computer, or takes a baseball bat to your car windows as creepy... even more so when the person she does that to goes back to her. At the very least it's unhealthy and abusive. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ZanyaCross Posted December 15, 2015 Share Posted December 15, 2015 (edited) I think people think it's creepy because if Cedrax even thinks of leaving her she starts destroying his ****. I'd call any romance with a girl that if you tell her you are breaking things off she goes and slashes up your bed, breakes your computer, or takes a baseball bat to your car windows as creepy... even more so when the person she does that to goes back to her. At the very least it's unhealthy and abusive. Funny, because only one of the people in that relationship has the power to wipe the other out of existence with a computer command (and not face a single charge for it). Edited December 15, 2015 by ZanyaCross Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StarMagus Posted December 15, 2015 Share Posted December 15, 2015 (edited) Yeah I guess holliday could vent the air of the ship into space and kill everybody and wouldn't face any charges for it. I guess that's ok though, for... reasons. Somehow I'm not surprised you find this abuse of a loved one OK. They are both pretty much sterotypes. Cheating Guy with the Yandere Girlfriend. Edited December 15, 2015 by StarMagus Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ZanyaCross Posted December 15, 2015 Share Posted December 15, 2015 Yeah I guess holliday could vent the air of the ship into space and kill everybody and wouldn't face any charges for it. I guess that's ok though, for... reasons. Somehow I'm not surprised you find this abuse of a loved one OK. They are both pretty much sterotypes. Cheating Guy with the Yandere Girlfriend. Somehow I'm not surprised that you can think a man who created and programmed a woman from scratch is in any way her victim. Theron programmed her to worship the ground he walks on. She has no free will, and even if she does after the upgrade, the entire core of her being was originally programmed from the start to revolve around him. Does it even enter your mind how incredibly creepy that is? Also not surprising is that you use outdated anime tropes as a defense, ignoring that they come from a country with some of the worst ingrained sexism in the developed world. Maybe you should get out a bit more and meet real women instead of dating sims and anime written by dudes. Heaven forbid though, they might actually expect you to listen to them instead of you telling them why they're wrong about things they obviously have a lot more experience with. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Analyst Posted December 15, 2015 Share Posted December 15, 2015 (edited) Somehow I'm not surprised that you can think a man who created and programmed a woman from scratch is in any way her victim. Theron programmed her to worship the ground he walks on. She has no free will, and even if she does after the upgrade, the entire core of her being was originally programmed from the start to revolve around him. Does it even enter your mind how incredibly creepy that is? Did Tharan really create Holiday? If I am not mistaken, he has just discovered her and actually liberated. I am sure that he doesn't lie when speaking about this. Tharan is immensely proud of his intellect, and if he would created such an unusual life form, he would most certainly state so. Edited December 15, 2015 by Analyst Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ratnick-Filozof Posted December 15, 2015 Share Posted December 15, 2015 (edited) Somehow I'm not surprised that you can think a man who created and programmed a woman from scratch is in any way her victim. Theron programmed her to worship the ground he walks on. She has no free will, and even if she does after the upgrade, the entire core of her being was originally programmed from the start to revolve around him. Does it even enter your mind how incredibly creepy that is? Also not surprising is that you use outdated anime tropes as a defense, ignoring that they come from a country with some of the worst ingrained sexism in the developed world. Maybe you should get out a bit more and meet real women instead of dating sims and anime written by dudes. Heaven forbid though, they might actually expect you to listen to them instead of you telling them why they're wrong about things they obviously have a lot more experience with. Tharan didn't create Holiday, he won her off a Hutt. Edited December 15, 2015 by Ratnick-Filozof Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CrutchCricket Posted December 16, 2015 Share Posted December 16, 2015 Tharan didn't create Holiday, he won her off a Hutt. Indeed, and he's also the only one of her "owners" said to explicitly treat her as a person and not a thing. But such facts rarely get in the way of some people. Somehow I'm not surprised that you can think a man who created and programmed a woman from scratch is in any way her victim. Theron programmed her to worship the ground he walks on. She has no free will, and even if she does after the upgrade, the entire core of her being was originally programmed from the start to revolve around him. Does it even enter your mind how incredibly creepy that is? Also not surprising is that you use outdated anime tropes as a defense, ignoring that they come from a country with some of the worst ingrained sexism in the developed world. Maybe you should get out a bit more and meet real women instead of dating sims and anime written by dudes. Heaven forbid though, they might actually expect you to listen to them instead of you telling them why they're wrong about things they obviously have a lot more experience with. Err... maybe you should step away from the keyboard for a bit. When the need to personally attack others and make assumptions about them and project like a Canon LV-X300 has passed, perhaps you can consider the following: If Holiday has no free will, what's the point of asking her whether she wants the upgrade? Why does Tharan say the core will "increase her sentience", not grant it? Holiday has always been considered a sentient being, the core only removes her remaining limitations. More importantly she was always viewed by Tharan as a person which actively contributed to her own feelings about him. Sure he may have tweaked/upgraded her over the years but their relationship is far from the simplistic representation you're trying to push. Further reading/sources: Holiday Wookiepedia article My previous post in this thread on the matter (with vid that shows what Tharan's true feelings are when the cards are down.) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SithKoriandr Posted December 16, 2015 Share Posted December 16, 2015 Somehow I'm not surprised that you can think a man who created and programmed a woman from scratch is in any way her victim. Theron programmed her to worship the ground he walks on. She has no free will, and even if she does after the upgrade, the entire core of her being was originally programmed from the start to revolve around him. Does it even enter your mind how incredibly creepy that is? Also not surprising is that you use outdated anime tropes as a defense, ignoring that they come from a country with some of the worst ingrained sexism in the developed world. Maybe you should get out a bit more and meet real women instead of dating sims and anime written by dudes. Heaven forbid though, they might actually expect you to listen to them instead of you telling them why they're wrong about things they obviously have a lot more experience with. Might need to replay the Consular storyline (or play it once?) Tharan didn't create her. She was also sentient before Tharan ever found her. What I'd like answered about her however, is just how does she get around?! Is she linked to some portable box? Can she solidify her energy to affect the real world? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CrutchCricket Posted December 16, 2015 Share Posted December 16, 2015 What I'd like answered about her however, is just how does she get around?! Is she linked to some portable box? Can she solidify her energy to affect the real world? She's hardly unique in that respect. In this franchise holograms appear where ever they please, just cuz. That started with the movies (well, the prequels really). So pick your handwavium of choice. I think I'll go with nanomachines for 500 credits. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StarMagus Posted December 16, 2015 Share Posted December 16, 2015 (edited) Somehow I'm not surprised that you can think a man who created and programmed a woman from scratch is in any way her victim. Theron programmed her to worship the ground he walks on. She has no free will, and even if she does after the upgrade, the entire core of her being was originally programmed from the start to revolve around him. Does it even enter your mind how incredibly creepy that is? Also not surprising is that you use outdated anime tropes as a defense, ignoring that they come from a country with some of the worst ingrained sexism in the developed world. Maybe you should get out a bit more and meet real women instead of dating sims and anime written by dudes. Heaven forbid though, they might actually expect you to listen to them instead of you telling them why they're wrong about things they obviously have a lot more experience with. Well you went off the deep end and have ignored the story as it was presented to instead create a version that fits how you think it had to be so you can get offended by it. Nice. Edited December 16, 2015 by StarMagus Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StarMagus Posted December 16, 2015 Share Posted December 16, 2015 She's hardly unique in that respect. In this franchise holograms appear where ever they please, just cuz. That started with the movies (well, the prequels really). So pick your handwavium of choice. I think I'll go with nanomachines for 500 credits. I just imagined that he had a projector on him like the ones people carry just modified to let her project some distance around him at full size. Considering how smart he is, it wouldn't be that challenging. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StarMagus Posted December 16, 2015 Share Posted December 16, 2015 Did Tharan really create Holiday? If I am not mistaken, he has just discovered her and actually liberated. I am sure that he doesn't lie when speaking about this. Tharan is immensely proud of his intellect, and if he would created such an unusual life form, he would most certainly state so. Yeah he saved her from the last person that owned her which is why she is so attached to him, that and he treats her like a person. It's actually a sweet story, despite both of their... issues. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SteveTheCynic Posted December 16, 2015 Share Posted December 16, 2015 Isn't it more like "long past"? Planetary rotation is a convenient way of time measurement. I am not sure if the rotation of Shili (if Ashara is from there) differs from our planet so much. Repeat after me: * A planet rotates around its axis. * A planet revolves around its star. For the age of nominally adult people, planetary rotations (days) aren't really very useful. By that measure, my age is about 18171. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Analyst Posted December 16, 2015 Share Posted December 16, 2015 Repeat after me: * A planet rotates around its axis. * A planet revolves around its star. For the age of nominally adult people, planetary rotations (days) aren't really very useful. By that measure, my age is about 18171. I stand corrected and apologize for the wrong word. That is what you get when writing answer being tired and to a post with the wrong word in it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CrutchCricket Posted December 16, 2015 Share Posted December 16, 2015 Age is arbitrary to begin with. What tangible physical or psychological effect occurs at precisely 18 years that marks a person ready to engage in romantic and sexual activities? None, it's just some **** some people decided. A few centuries ago they were getting married at 14. It's all arbitrary. Society these days is really weird about stuff like this. If a person is physically mature and able to understand and accept the weight of the decision they should be good to go. "Age limits" only matter because jail sucks the shaft (or more likely you will, if you get sent there). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Damask_Rose Posted December 17, 2015 Share Posted December 17, 2015 I don't think any of the relationships are creepy based on age differences, it's the power differences. Most of them don't feel really creepy to me, just inappropriate. Nadia's romance feels creepy because she glommed onto my naive consular and wouldn't let go. Every comment that wasn't a "get the hell away from me" comment was taken as a passionate declaration of undying love. I think Nadia might be a bunny boiler. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SteveTheCynic Posted December 17, 2015 Share Posted December 17, 2015 Age is arbitrary to begin with. What tangible physical or psychological effect occurs at precisely 18 years that marks a person ready to engage in romantic and sexual activities? None, it's just some **** some people decided. A few centuries ago they were getting married at 14. It's all arbitrary. Society these days is really weird about stuff like this. If a person is physically mature and able to understand and accept the weight of the decision they should be good to go. "Age limits" only matter because jail sucks the shaft (or more likely you will, if you get sent there). We have overt age limits because in a modern jurisdiction, the law cannot cope with the workload that requiring an analysis of the supposedly under-age person's emotional/social maturity and such. And also because it is really hard to define what the criteria for such an analysis should be. So we draw a line in the sand of late adolescence, and say that anyone older than that is judged competent (in the legalistic sense) to decide for himself(1), and anyone younger than that is not. There are occasional anomalies, like where some jurisdictions say that the age of consent for a girl to say "yes" is 18 unless the guy is under 18, in which case the age is 16; or some other jurisdictions where (at some time, but not necessarily now) it was 18 for a girl to say yes herself, but her parents could give consent if she was at least 14; or the UK at one point, where girls had one age of consent, boys another, and homosexuals had yet another, higher age of consent. But of course whatever the age of consent is, there are some who are sufficiently mature before that age to be able to make that decision, and others who are not, and even a few who aren't really up to the job at two or even three times that age. But once we acknowledge that we cannot make a legal definition of "too creepy" (and we cannot), we must draw that arbitrary line in the sand, and we must draw it so as to not inconvenience too many people, while simultaneously not leaving too many people without protection. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CrutchCricket Posted December 17, 2015 Share Posted December 17, 2015 I don't think any of the relationships are creepy based on age differences, it's the power differences. Most of them don't feel really creepy to me, just inappropriate. Nadia's romance feels creepy because she glommed onto my naive consular and wouldn't let go. Every comment that wasn't a "get the hell away from me" comment was taken as a passionate declaration of undying love. I think Nadia might be a bunny boiler. I didn't think you could play a naive consular (apart from general game derp for the sake of exposition). In fact I'm quite skeptical of that. The Consular sounds like a wise Jedi Master right off the ship at Tython. Besides, if both are naive, you can't really say one's taking advantage of the other, can you? Come to think of it, maybe that's why they made Nadia so overt. Once they decided her character was that sheltered it's pretty much required that she be the prime instigator in the romance, to specifically avoid making it seem like the Consular's taking advantage. That may fly for a Sith, but not a Jedi. We have overt age limits because in a modern jurisdiction, the law cannot cope with the workload that requiring an analysis of the supposedly under-age person's emotional/social maturity and such. Cannot? Or will not? I'm banking on the latter. And also because it is really hard to define what the criteria for such an analysis should be. So we draw a line in the sand of late adolescence, and say that anyone older than that is judged competent (in the legalistic sense) to decide for himself(1), and anyone younger than that is not. There are occasional anomalies, like where some jurisdictions say that the age of consent for a girl to say "yes" is 18 unless the guy is under 18, in which case the age is 16; or some other jurisdictions where (at some time, but not necessarily now) it was 18 for a girl to say yes herself, but her parents could give consent if she was at least 14; or the UK at one point, where girls had one age of consent, boys another, and homosexuals had yet another, higher age of consent. But of course whatever the age of consent is, there are some who are sufficiently mature before that age to be able to make that decision, and others who are not, and even a few who aren't really up to the job at two or even three times that age. But once we acknowledge that we cannot make a legal definition of "too creepy" (and we cannot), we must draw that arbitrary line in the sand, and we must draw it so as to not inconvenience too many people, while simultaneously not leaving too many people without protection. I don't think it is. It requires more impartial education and a significant shift of cultural perception on the subject. Which admittedly may be impossible to force. But better analysis is not itself impossible. Defaulting to the underlined is a mistake I think. And as for the anomalies you mention, do they not seem backwards to you? If we're considering the girl's ability to say yes, why does the age of the male matter? That's like saying apples and oranges, unless grapes, in which case tangerines. It's crazy. But this is getting off topic and into RL politics which is a no-no. So I'll leave it at that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StarMagus Posted December 18, 2015 Share Posted December 18, 2015 I still find it weird that people have no problem going..... "It's ok for Nadia to make the choice to go into a warzone and kill people by the bucket loads, while risking death herself, but the idea of her picking somebody she wants to have sex with and get into a relationship with? No, no, no.. she's not mature enough for THAT." Why does killing and fighting in a war require less emotional maturity then sex? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kaedusz Posted December 18, 2015 Share Posted December 18, 2015 Why does killing and fighting in a war require less emotional maturity then sex? This reminds me of murica's drinking laws. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SteveTheCynic Posted December 18, 2015 Share Posted December 18, 2015 Cannot? Or will not? I'm banking on the latter. I don't think it is. It requires more impartial education and a significant shift of cultural perception on the subject. Which admittedly may be impossible to force. But better analysis is not itself impossible. Defaulting to the underlined is a mistake I think. And as for the anomalies you mention, do they not seem backwards to you? If we're considering the girl's ability to say yes, why does the age of the male matter? That's like saying apples and oranges, unless grapes, in which case tangerines. It's crazy. But this is getting off topic and into RL politics which is a no-no. So I'll leave it at that. I'd observe that for statutory rape cases (which is where the analysis would be necessary), the workload probably wouldn't be so bad, but the issues surrounding the legalistic definition of what that analysis should be would be terrifying. Where the workload would be unmanageable is if they then said that a similar schema should apply to, say, driving licenses and drinking age. I say similar because it couldn't be exactly the same, because driving, drinking, and sex aren't the same, and don't have the same maturity criteria. But even that would lead to oddities - some would have drinking licenses(1) but not driving licenses, and some would have the opposite. Unless you made it a general certificate of adulthood, a sort of rite of passage. But the legalistic issues surrounding the standards would still be terrifying. No, in all cases a simple line in the sand is the only sane way of doing it in the modern world. And I said they were anomalies, didn't I? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts