Lalainnia Posted November 11, 2015 Share Posted November 11, 2015 While its very true that more than 1 healer on the opposing team can make things very lopsided I'm honestly seeing far more inexperienced dps and by that I mean ones that can't put up 200-300 dps in short games on top of the fact of them having a low death count. Far to many dps don't know how to do the most basic things that their role requires and that is dealing damage. It's not even a matter of cd control or when to stun a great deal of dps don't know a decent rotation to follow and waste gcds by pressing nothing for 4-6 seconds only to follow up with something pityful like the basic attack. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vodrin Posted November 11, 2015 Share Posted November 11, 2015 (edited) That's basically a dummy parse with 208 gear. If you are sitting there for the entire match and executing your ideal rotation on a single target that never dies, I suppose that would be possible. Or lots of AOE, which is something that you can't benefit from in a dummy parse. Since the dps that appears on the scoreboard is calculated simply as total damage divided by length of match in seconds, even things like the time it takes for you to start engaging the enemy at the beginning of a match will factor in. Players who are number farming make it a priority to rush the enemy and engage them as quickly as possible. My personal best in 4.0 was last night on my 60 PT (3.5k dps arena woohoo). Other than that, I think I hit 2.7k on my mara once. I can parse 5k on a dummy, but all the target switching and out of combat downtime makes it really hard to hit that in a warzone without AOE spamming to make up for it. Personally, if I'm attacking somebody for a while and they are not dying, I'm probably not going to keep beating on them. I'm going to swap targets (dps loss during transition and possibly messing up ideal rotation), or try and do something else to achieve the warzone objectives. Anyway, just something that I have been thinking about, only mildly related to the topic. I think healing is fine. It's just a lack dps and focus and poor utilization of abilities that certain classes/specs have to reduce healing by the target (I'm looking at you marauders and tank assassins). It's designed such that healing output is roughly double damage output. Go look at Bant's 4.0 optimal stats for all specs data and you will see this. So, one lone healer doing everything perfectly would eventually die to two dps doing everything perfectly when RNG fails the healer. If one of those dps has an ability that reduces healing done by the target, the two dps will kill the healer sooner. Also remember that merc and op healers are extremely vulnerable to stuns and interrupts. Those two classes can be killed solo pretty reliably if they do not try to kite and facetank DPS. Sorc's are another story entirely, but for the most part healers have to kite to stay up against DPS because they have a harder time reducing the DPS classes damage output without kiting, while the DPS can easily cripple the healers HPS if they can stay on target continuously. As a result I think that merc and op healers are fine (merc healers could actually still use an extra defensive in my opinion), while I believe sorc healers are a bit overtuned as they are just too difficult to shut down. While its very true that more than 1 healer on the opposing team can make things very lopsided I'm honestly seeing far more inexperienced dps and by that I mean ones that can't put up 200-300 dps in short games on top of the fact of them having a low death count. Far to many dps don't know how to do the most basic things that their role requires and that is dealing damage. It's not even a matter of cd control or when to stun a great deal of dps don't know a decent rotation to follow and waste gcds by pressing nothing for 4-6 seconds only to follow up with something pityful like the basic attack. Agreed Edited November 11, 2015 by Vodrin Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tempMentive Posted November 11, 2015 Share Posted November 11, 2015 I prefer never ending games of novara with 4 healers on each team. So much fun! Especially when you manage to down one and /spit on the corpse. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DomiSotto Posted November 11, 2015 Share Posted November 11, 2015 (edited) Also remember that merc and op healers are extremely vulnerable to stuns and interrupts. Those two classes can be killed solo pretty reliably if they do not try to kite and facetank DPS. The OP's complaint was based on a merc that stood in front of the Voidstar door without cover and outhealed the 3 of them through stuns and interrupts. The OP's statement should be discussed in this specific context. That's why I am saying they need a screenshot to see what is that they were missing.Guard? Cross-heals? Their own DPS? Seriously, I was once in Pipeball, where my entire crew went who knows where doing who knows what. The guy who scored 6 times was a DPS merc. Can't say that made me believe that a DPS merc makes a great ball carrier. Edited November 11, 2015 by DomiSotto Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aerockyul Posted November 11, 2015 Share Posted November 11, 2015 If you're a good mara and the healer is not being supported you should easily be able to lock down any of the three healing AC's in fury, your combination of constant burst, cc immunity, four gap closers, cc, and healing debuff give you more than enough tools to prevent an unsupported healer from doing anything other than keeping themselves alive. That being said, a smart dps has to understand when to press the healer, and when to switch targets; a perfect example is in hypergates when your ranged dps are being pushed back by the enemy teams melee dps and you are chasing their healer(s) to their back line, once you've pushed them back the smart move would be to aoe fear the healer(s)/ranged dps and then leap to one of the melee your ranged dps are fighting. Attempting to solo a healer who has support while your own support is being pushed back is futile, but with the amount of burst you can line up it's fairly simple for you to land a kill on the dps in your back line if you focus one of the enemies that is cut off from his back line; after you clear out your back line your ranged dps will be able to push forward to help you lock down and kill the healer. TLDR: You have the tools to overcome healers, but because this is a team game you need to be able to analyze the the warzone and utilize teamwork if you want to win. I like this outlook on the situation. The PVE equivalent would be the droids in Colicoid War Games that occasionally turn into holograms and don't take damage (I think there's a boss fight like this in the False Emperor, and similarly in Manaan (but with shields instead of holograms)). It's mind-numbing how many dps in pugs that tunnel the holograms or shielded droids and don't switch to the one that is actually damageable. They don't respond to chat, they don't notice the HP pool is not dropping for their target, they just waste all their rotation on something that cannot be touched. This is what I think is happening when I am standing in one place as a healer (even s-keying out of circles ), 3-4 guys are throwing everything at me, and they don't notice the tank guarding me or the dps harassing them or when I'm leading them away from the objective. It's mostly bad situational awareness and/or low-dps output by inexperienced or inattentive players. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lundorff Posted November 11, 2015 Share Posted November 11, 2015 I did 700k healing at 1k HPS yesterday. On my cool sorcerer. At level 34. With lightning spec... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Equilibrio Posted November 12, 2015 Share Posted November 12, 2015 Healing is fine in pve but its way OP in pvp, not alot they can do as the two are linked which is a bad design flaw if you ask me. You could always roll a healer and do it back to them . If your team doesn't focus healer then its not their fault and if its 3v1 and cant kill him then your team has bad gear. Its actually easily fixable ..... make healing xx% less effective in pvp scenario. Or reduce the % of healing on players boost from the expertice . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JAOMSYH Posted November 12, 2015 Share Posted November 12, 2015 Force the healer to focus on themselves, problem solved. If I am healing myself I'm not healing everyone else. I play a merc healer and many times I go unnoticed which is perfect. Some matches the teams are competent and focus me down in seconds just depends on the team. As far as being able to heal through multiple people focusing on me, it all depends on the people using their abilities correctly. Some use their abiliies correctly which results in me getting smoked quick. Other times they don't use their abilities correctly which means I am going to survive. It all depends on who is attacking is how I see it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Equilibrio Posted November 12, 2015 Share Posted November 12, 2015 (edited) Force the healer to focus on themselves, problem solved. If I am healing myself I'm not healing everyone else. I play a merc healer and many times I go unnoticed which is perfect. Some matches the teams are competent and focus me down in seconds just depends on the team. As far as being able to heal through multiple people focusing on me, it all depends on the people using their abilities correctly. Some use their abiliies correctly which results in me getting smoked quick. Other times they don't use their abilities correctly which means I am going to survive. It all depends on who is attacking is how I see it. Every gosh darn healer out there thinks he is the **** . They think they are solo in the WZ. It is hard to focus healer w/o one while he has his personal butt budies CC ing the **** out of every one who tries to go for healer. Not to mention that w/o they own healers those ppl melt before they can do anything . You need a SWAT team coordination if you want to take out a guarded healer w/o one yourself and you CAN'T get that in random WZ. 1 Player focusing a geared half brain dead healer can barely do anything. If the healer is somewhat decent even 2 wont be enough u'll need 3 or more. If the healer is Guarded or peeled then the 3 won't be enough aswell. And after all that even if HALF of your team decided to ignore objectives and the entire enemy team zerging on them and manage to take down the healer's ....then what ? They are back before you can make anything with it. Healers are retarded atm. I was in games where enemy team had 2 or 3 healers who did 4-6 k HPS in a game !! What are we supposed to do ? Dedicate half the team to chasing arround the healer for half the WZ and ignore the objectives and the rest of enemy team zerging you ?? And for what ? 5-10 sec of that healers absence before he is back again ? Edited November 12, 2015 by Equilibrio Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JAOMSYH Posted November 12, 2015 Share Posted November 12, 2015 Not every healer out there has this ego that you speak of. I always pug no premades for me since my guild has died off. In random wz I am almost always able to find competent 1 or 2 people that I tag along with for the match that understand we need each other to be our most effective. When I can't find that well that leads to a crappy match for me. Remember now I am only speaking from the perspective of a merc healer who is not op. Again I think it all comes down to who is attacking and how good my support (DPs/tanks) are. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alexsamma Posted November 12, 2015 Share Posted November 12, 2015 Every gosh darn healer out there thinks he is the Sh** . They think they are solo in the WZ. It is hard to focus healer w/o one while he has his personal butt budies CC ing the **** out of every one who tries to go for healer. Not to mention that w/o they own healers those ppl melt before they can do anything . You need a SWAT team coordination if you want to take out a guarded healer w/o one yourself and you CAN'T get that in random WZ. 1 Player focusing a geared half brain dead healer can barely do anything. If the healer is somewhat decent even 2 wont be enough u'll need 3 or more. If the healer is Guarded or peeled then the 3 won't be enough aswell. And after all that even if HALF of your team decided to ignore objectives and the entire enemy team zerging on them and manage to take down the healer's ....then what ? They are back before you can make anything with it. Healers are retarded atm. I was in games where enemy team had 2 or 3 healers who did 4-6 k HPS in a game !! What are we supposed to do ? Dedicate half the team to chasing arround the healer for half the WZ and ignore the objectives and the rest of enemy team zerging you ?? And for what ? 5-10 sec of that healers absence before he is back again ? If you can't force an unsupported healer to take care of him/herself you are bad, if you are attacking a healer that is being peeled for and protected you're in a 1vs2(or more) situation and are expecting to much if you actually think you should be able to kill/shut down the healer (if you go 1vs2 against two dps of equal skill would you expect to win???). BTW, if healers are OP and you were able to kill a healer in a match with 2-3 healers pulling 4-6k hps wouldn't that mean that dps is even more broken?. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Equilibrio Posted November 12, 2015 Share Posted November 12, 2015 (edited) If you can't force an unsupported healer to take care of him/herself you are bad, if you are attacking a healer that is being peeled for and protected you're in a 1vs2(or more) situation and are expecting to much if you actually think you should be able to kill/shut down the healer (if you go 1vs2 against two dps of equal skill would you expect to win???). BTW, if healers are OP and you were able to kill a healer in a match with 2-3 healers pulling 4-6k hps wouldn't that mean that dps is even more broken?. Did you even read what i posted ? Where did i say i expect to win 1v2 or such drivel ? I was in games where enemy team had 2 or 3 healers who did 4-6 k HPS in a game !! What are we supposed to do ? Who said anything about managing to kill them ? I said you need to dedicate half your team or more just to chase them arround for half the WZ . And for what ? Even if hypothetically you managed to down one of them then he is back in about 5-10 sec. Work on your reading comprehension Edited November 12, 2015 by Equilibrio Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alexsamma Posted November 12, 2015 Share Posted November 12, 2015 (edited) It is hard to focus healer w/o one while he has his personal butt budies CC ing the **** out of every one who tries to go for healer. Here you are complaining about attacking healers who are being protected by their teammates ....if HALF of your team decided to ignore objectives and the entire enemy team zerging on them and manage to take down the healer's ....then what ? They are back before you can make anything with it. Healers are retarded atm. I was in games where enemy team had 2 or 3 healers who did 4-6 k HPS in a game !! What are we supposed to do ? Dedicate half the team to chasing arround the healer for half the WZ and ignore the objectives and the rest of enemy team zerging you ?? And for what ? 5-10 sec of that healers absence before he is back again ? Here you are talking about being able to kill a healer when there are 2-3 healers pulling 4-6k hps. Edit: The 1vs2 dps was an example, because most people would not expect to win solo vs two competent dps, but the same individuals complain about not being able to take out a healer when the healer is being protected. Edited November 12, 2015 by alexsamma Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Equilibrio Posted November 12, 2015 Share Posted November 12, 2015 (edited) Here you are complaining about attacking healers who are being protected by their teammates It is hard to focus healer w/o one while he has his personal butt budies CC ing the **** out of every one who tries to go for healer. Were do you see me saying i expect to kill a healer alone ? I said its hard to focus down a healer w/0 a healer on your team .period. For every one and not 1v1. Here you are talking about being able to kill a healer when there are 2-3 healers pulling 4-6k hps. HALF of your team.... Dedicate half the team to chasing arround ..... Edited November 12, 2015 by Equilibrio Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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