xyrmagus Posted November 10, 2015 Share Posted November 10, 2015 (edited) On Shadowlands at least, prime time is plagued with premades on both sides rolling groups. My team seems to be full of people wearing 208/216 PvE gear, unaware of how bolster is screwing them over. I understand we'd still lose in a lot of cases, but right now, with how weak bolster is you literally can't touch these people. I'm wearing full basic warzone gear one two different characters, one of them optimized and augmented, and I can barely touch one. When you figure they then have 3-4 sage healers, it gets really frustrating. Also, can we somehow limit the # of healers in PvP, or make heals considerably less effective than they are? When there are 3+ healers with any amount of pvp gear, it becomes impossible to kill anyone without coordinated calls (which unranked wzs are not). Additionally, can we limit games to 1 premade max? Getting to fight two groups of 4 man premades is really frustrating. Edited November 10, 2015 by xyrmagus Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Majorlaezza Posted November 10, 2015 Share Posted November 10, 2015 Sounds like a you problem. Find friends or a pvp guild that runs regs. I don't see how you can actually get upset with people who are playing with their friends and allies in a MULTIPLAYER game Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Knifetwister Posted November 10, 2015 Share Posted November 10, 2015 Sounds like a you problem. Find friends or a pvp guild that runs regs. I don't see how you can actually get upset with people who are playing with their friends and allies in a MULTIPLAYER game This is nearly the most moronic reply you could've come up with. Warzones were never meant to be exclusive to premade groups and social players only. There are solo queues for a reason. Some other games prevent you from entering PuG PvP in groups for precisely the reason the OP stated. OP can get as upset as he wants, it's a legitimate annoyance. Go soak your head. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
xyrmagus Posted November 10, 2015 Author Share Posted November 10, 2015 (edited) Sounds like a you problem. Find friends or a pvp guild that runs regs. I don't see how you can actually get upset with people who are playing with their friends and allies in a MULTIPLAYER game This is not a "premades are killing pvp". This is a "bolster is broken" post, primarily, as well as a "healing is too strong" post. You can literally have 2-3 geared dps beating on a sorc healer, and they can live an absurd amount of time. Healing is too strong relative to DPS. Its one thing if a healer can STRUGGLE to survive a single dps on them (obviously having an easier time with other dps), but things need to change. Mobile heals need to be weakened. Healing as a whole needs to be weakened. Mana needs to be a consideration for healing. And finally, if PvP is ONLY fun for people who run premades, because PvP gear is so much stronger than bolster, healers are very strong, and guard/taunts make them unkillable, how long do you think PvP will survive? Edited November 10, 2015 by xyrmagus Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Yorioko Posted November 10, 2015 Share Posted November 10, 2015 This is not a "premades are killing pvp". This is a "bolster is broken" post, primarily, as well as a "healing is too strong" post. You can literally have 2-3 geared dps beating on a sorc healer, and they can live an absurd amount of time. Healing is too strong relative to DPS. Its one thing if a healer can STRUGGLE to survive a single dps on them (obviously having an easier time with other dps), but things need to change. Mobile heals need to be weakened. Healing as a whole needs to be weakened. Mana needs to be a consideration for healing. And finally, if PvP is ONLY fun for people who run premades, because PvP gear is so much stronger than bolster, healers are very strong, and guard/taunts make them unkillable, how long do you think PvP will survive? Bolster is bugged...............and I believe I read on a post here that it IS being noticed and workd on Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Clifffeh Posted November 10, 2015 Share Posted November 10, 2015 May i ask what class you are playing? I am trying to form an idea of what classes are truly struggling vs these healers. I know its not marauders, snipers, operatives, assassins and their mirrors. They eat through my gear like tissue paper and One of these days i'll gather information on how hard some of these classes are hitting me for but for now just take my word for it OUCH. As a sage DPS i dont think it is possible to kill a healer of equal skill. The best i hope for is to force them to focus healing themselves. and make it very difficult to heal another person Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
-Healius- Posted November 10, 2015 Share Posted November 10, 2015 (edited) When im on the winning team all night if I join with my guild it does get boring fast sitting around doing nothing because the enemy is chilling in their base bored of dying...... Wanna play Rep? forget about winning unless you queue with a pug/healer your screwed, I got wrecked all night last night because nobody has a clue about expertise and why should they? bioware made this game so they should fix it so everyone gets a free pvp set in the mail. Think pvp has finally hit the nail in the coffin for me, so many stupid problems - Bolster/Teleporting ruining huttball/Premade tanks&healers/Expertise.... etc etc etc etc etc All I see in huttball now is 6-0 6-0 6-0 6-0 6-0 6-0 6-0 - IMPS v REP IMP v IMP is the only way to have fun now unfortunately, unless all the decent rep players are on which is very rare. Edited November 10, 2015 by -Healius- Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
xyrmagus Posted November 10, 2015 Author Share Posted November 10, 2015 (edited) Wanna play Rep? forget about winning unless you queue with a pug/healer your screwed, I got wrecked all night last night because nobody has a clue about expertise and why should they? On shadowlands, I almost never win against republic teams. All I see are premades from Republic Bowling League and Knights of the Olde Republic, and they curbstomp the games I'm in. It's extra frustrating when you're new to the game, trying to get your friends to pvp again after finally convincing them to try KOTFE, and between broken bolster and these fully geared teams we lose 80% of the time. If bolster is indeed bugged, and they acknowledged it, great. That said, this seems like somthing that warranted a day 1 or 2 hotfix, not something that's still a major issue 3+ weeks after an expansion launch. With the huge resurgence of players, they have the perfect opportunity to make people fall in love with pvp again. I have so many friends who say huttball is the best pvp they've experienced in any MMO... and it's a shame to sour that experience with broken bolster. To be honest, I've always been of the opinion PVP should not be gear basted. Everyone should have the same power, and skill should dictate the victor, with rewards being cosmetic, achievements, titles, etc instead of raw power. May i ask what class you are playing? I am trying to form an idea of what classes are truly struggling vs these healers. I know its not marauders, snipers, operatives, assassins and their mirrors. They eat through my gear like tissue paper and One of these days i'll gather information on how hard some of these classes are hitting me for but for now just take my word for it OUCH. As a sage DPS i dont think it is possible to kill a healer of equal skill. The best i hope for is to force them to focus healing themselves. and make it very difficult to heal another person I have a merc and assassin. My assassin (as deception, at least) hits like a wet noodle compared to my merc, even though his gear is fully augmented (my merc has 0 augments) and has the appropriate mods. Both have full basic gear (2018 expertise). And the bigger problem isn't just a single healer, but going into games with 3 healers and a tank on the opposing team who knows what he's doing. You literally cannot touch them, and since most teammates are just people in 208/216 PVE gear with <1k expertise, they don't hit for anything. It's partly a bolster problem, yes, but healers shouldn't be able to run away from you while taking 0 damage. Even with my assassin's ability to lock down a healer, I can maybe get one down to 30-40% health in a round of CC's, but then they force bubble and heal to full (also: a pile of bull dung). Shields are way too strong on sorc/sages. Instant or mobile heals are too potent. If you are allowed to stand there and free cast, sure I shouldn't kill you because I'm not locking you down. But healers have too many "oh ****" tools to realistically die, especially when you figure a semi-competent teammate of most classes can easily peel. Edited November 10, 2015 by xyrmagus Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gsummers Posted November 10, 2015 Share Posted November 10, 2015 (edited) This is not a "premades are killing pvp". This is a "bolster is broken" post, primarily, as well as a "healing is too strong" post. You can literally have 2-3 geared dps beating on a sorc healer, and they can live an absurd amount of time. Healing is too strong relative to DPS. Its one thing if a healer can STRUGGLE to survive a single dps on them (obviously having an easier time with other dps), but things need to change. Mobile heals need to be weakened. Healing as a whole needs to be weakened. Mana needs to be a consideration for healing. And finally, if PvP is ONLY fun for people who run premades, because PvP gear is so much stronger than bolster, healers are very strong, and guard/taunts make them unkillable, how long do you think PvP will survive? Case in point, went into an unranked arena with my wife. I played a vanguard tank and she played a sage healer. After realizing in the first round that we were up against a fully geared premade, we decided to just face tank them. I put my guard on her and after our two teammates were easily dispatched, we just stood next to each other while the enemy team completely surrounded us and poured continual dps on us. With me just guarding and taunting, and her just healing, it was incredible how long it took all four of them to finally burn us down. It took a LONG LONG time. We basically were able to cycle through our defensives a couple times before just the right combination of them were on cooldown before our health finally fell to zero. Fun? Kind of (would prefer winning). Interesting? Yes. Working as intended? Possibly not. Edited November 10, 2015 by gsummers Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
xyrmagus Posted November 10, 2015 Author Share Posted November 10, 2015 Fun? Kind of (would prefer winning). Interesting? Yes. Working as intended? Possibly not. And I'm not even saying smart play shouldn't be rewarded. If tanks did nothing and healers were weak, there's not point to play them. It might be just that bolster is incredibly broken, but I think a good tank and a decent healer or two are genuinely unkillable. It's frustrating enough on a map like novare coast, but when it comes to object maps like huttball it's downright infurating because there is NOTHING you can do to stop them, short of being in a 8 man premade and coordinating (which is obviously not possible in unranked). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jadescythe Posted November 10, 2015 Share Posted November 10, 2015 Healers can't facetank and survive 1v1. But the ones who know what they are doing and can LoS and pillar hump seem unkillable atm. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dabrixmgp Posted November 10, 2015 Share Posted November 10, 2015 premades on both sides so then everything is balanced. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AlrikFassbauer Posted November 10, 2015 Share Posted November 10, 2015 This is nearly the most moronic reply you could've come up with. Warzones were never meant to be exclusive to premade groups and social players only. There are solo queues for a reason. Some other games prevent you from entering PuG PvP in groups for precisely the reason the OP stated. I agree. It's almost as if group players want to perform an "unfriendly takeover" of Unranked PvP ... Dominating it so much that Bioware *must* react in one way or another ( or, more possible right now, never at all ... ). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BigDumbViking Posted November 10, 2015 Share Posted November 10, 2015 I agree. It's almost as if group players want to perform an "unfriendly takeover" of Unranked PvP ... Dominating it so much that Bioware *must* react in one way or another ( or, more possible right now, never at all ... ). No, the problem is Lt. Pierce and M14x. If I want to get my PVP daily's done, I'm not trusting the terrible pugs in 208's that can't figure out that Left isn't a good directional call in Voidstar. Don't blame people for having friends and not wanting to deal with crappy PVE'ers ruining pvp. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MASOLIZ Posted November 10, 2015 Share Posted November 10, 2015 No, the problem is Lt. Pierce and M14x. If I want to get my PVP daily's done, I'm not trusting the terrible pugs in 208's that can't figure out that Left isn't a good directional call in Voidstar. Don't blame people for having friends and not wanting to deal with crappy PVE'ers ruining pvp. ^this just look for complaints about having those 2 comps have a pvp requirement out of all of them, it rediculous! I play play PvE and PvP so I usually have 40+ valor anyway with the exception of the toons i leveled during 12xp Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jadescythe Posted November 10, 2015 Share Posted November 10, 2015 No, the problem is Lt. Pierce and M14x. If I want to get my PVP daily's done, I'm not trusting the terrible pugs in 208's that can't figure out that Left isn't a good directional call in Voidstar. Don't blame people for having friends and not wanting to deal with crappy PVE'ers ruining pvp. This only makes sense if it wasn't happening prior to 4.0. But left/right was used all the time. And players were terrible. So literally nothing is different. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wmst Posted November 11, 2015 Share Posted November 11, 2015 Queueing solo for regs is exactly the same as queueing solo for GF ops. Except in PVE bolster is actually useful. One time you end up with the group that wipes on trash before Malaphar, next time you faceroll the content like nobody's business. Solo queueing for regs is no different. Except i have never seen a single person complaining that he got 4-7man premade for GF Temple of sacrifice. I was also always wondering why people think that barging into a warzone without having done any research on bolster, proper gearing, wzrzone tactics is considered acceptable, while at the same time when the same person tries to enter some SM or god forbid HM operations without having a clue he s got raged on like 3 times harder than in PVP? Ppl who say that PVP community is toxic and full of elitist jerks have not really dabbled enough in any sort of high level PVE content as a pug. 78k sorcs in PVP are tolerated, since in 10-15 minutes wz will end and the guy will be gone. In PVE if you get really undergeared or clueless fella you will kick him and probably ignore, since you will most likely fail to meet enrage or keep the guy up if he's a tank. Biggest problem with this animosity between PVP and PVE players is a sense of entitlement that both of them have. We are all playing the same game and should make sure that, while having fun yourself is most important, in any group content all participants should be able to carry their weight, not being carried by others. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ThorgrimLutgen Posted November 11, 2015 Share Posted November 11, 2015 (edited) On Shadowlands at least, prime time is plagued with premades on both sides rolling groups. My team seems to be full of people wearing 208/216 PvE gear, unaware of how bolster is screwing them over. I understand we'd still lose in a lot of cases, but right now, with how weak bolster is you literally can't touch these people. I'm wearing full basic warzone gear one two different characters, one of them optimized and augmented, and I can barely touch one. When you figure they then have 3-4 sage healers, it gets really frustrating. Also, can we somehow limit the # of healers in PvP, or make heals considerably less effective than they are? When there are 3+ healers with any amount of pvp gear, it becomes impossible to kill anyone without coordinated calls (which unranked wzs are not). Additionally, can we limit games to 1 premade max? Getting to fight two groups of 4 man premades is really frustrating. What PVP is plagued with, are people with no clue how to PVP. Companion hunters, Conquest heroes etc etc, nothing else lowers the standard of play more than these people. I will take longer queues anytime, as opposed to suffering them. Edited November 11, 2015 by ThorgrimLutgen Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
knowmyname Posted November 11, 2015 Share Posted November 11, 2015 So you're telling me, nothing has changed on Shadowlands since I deployed. LoL Instead of complaining get a group together and work through it. Those guilds you mentioned in a later post aren't that great. They just farm the bolstered ignorant. My healer kills them solo. That's not saying much about them. x12XP hurt the game. End game WZ was full of nonners. Conquest hurt PvP, it was full of nonners. Companions tied to PvP has hurt PvP, it's still full of nonners. Nothing new. Move on. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SeCKSEgai Posted November 11, 2015 Share Posted November 11, 2015 This is not a "premades are killing pvp". This is a "bolster is broken" post, primarily, as well as a "healing is too strong" post. You can literally have 2-3 geared dps beating on a sorc healer, and they can live an absurd amount of time. Healing is too strong relative to DPS. Its one thing if a healer can STRUGGLE to survive a single dps on them (obviously having an easier time with other dps), but things need to change. Mobile heals need to be weakened. Healing as a whole needs to be weakened. Mana needs to be a consideration for healing. And finally, if PvP is ONLY fun for people who run premades, because PvP gear is so much stronger than bolster, healers are very strong, and guard/taunts make them unkillable, how long do you think PvP will survive? Bolster has been broken since long before I started playing regularly in march. Skilled healers are generally going to need 2+ to be killed Sorcs have been in a strong spot for a looooooong time A lot of what decides who wins and loses can be as simple as one side having no healers..... Pvp isn't going to die over this, as nothing's really changed other than new gear, at least as far as the general picture goes. You can't blame the premades for grouping when its a legitimate option in an mmo. You can't blame healing when a team with no healers gets beat by the one that does. Really from what I've seen nothing's really changed since i started playing regularly in March, gear is different and cheaper, but the overall dynamic is effectively the same Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
t-darko Posted November 11, 2015 Share Posted November 11, 2015 but what a pretty mess it is - be glad for the pops. Pve servers are the last bastion of pvp in the game, everywhere else you be happy to 8 to 16 lvl 65 on your faction queuing and if you have, well then you probably see alot of same faction pvp . . . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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