BioWare: take the feedback for once and increase difficulty going forward

[Mikahrone]

Or people can do like I do, EQ on project 1999 server. I mean no game is ever going to come close to that difficulty. Never happen.

 

EQ is still the king, and always will be of Hard game play.

 

It isnt that hard if you know what to do and how, and, yes, the point being they dont need million(s) of players to play it to keep it running.

[Mikahrone]

Oh really?

 

Link to the OP of the poll thread: http://www.swtor.com/community/showpost.php?p=8556036&postcount=1

 

Link to the OP stating they like companions as is: http://www.swtor.com/community/showpost.php?p=8564570&postcount=350

 

Starts out with:

 

 

 

Feel free to apologize for continuing to talk about how we created a poll that backfired on us whenever you're ready. But you won't.

 

So? I apologize to making him one of yours. How does that change anything?

[Jadescythe]

So? I apologize to making him one of yours. How does that change anything?

 

The major argument people make is how the poll is representative of the population when it clearly isn't. Not to mention it's a terribly made poll with terrible options (I didn't actually vote along with 700,000+ other players). Then they say the same things you do about how we created the poll, so we can't say it's not representative of the population when it's supposed to prove our point.

 

It literally proves nothing. Even if every respondent said they wanted companions nerfed it wouldn't support anything. So continuing to use it as evidence is ridiculous in the first place. Continuing to attempt to discredit anyone with a differing view from yourself with misinformation only discredits your own position as well.

[FerkWork]

#gameishard

[Mikahrone]

The major argument people make is how the poll is representative of the population when it clearly isn't. Not to mention it's a terribly made poll with terrible options (I didn't actually vote along with 700,000+ other players). Then they say the same things you do about how we created the poll, so we can't say it's not representative of the population when it's supposed to prove our point.

 

It literally proves nothing. Even if every respondent said they wanted companions nerfed it wouldn't support anything. So continuing to use it as evidence is ridiculous in the first place. Continuing to attempt to discredit anyone with a differing view from yourself with misinformation only discredits your own position as well.

 

So, now explain to OP that BW shouldnt blindly listen to his "feedback" and that BW has metrics for EVERY player that they base changes on.

 

You can proceed to explain that to all the whiners too. But i dont see you do that, now do i?

[FerkWork]

So, now explain to OP that BW shouldnt blindly listen to his "feedback" and that BW has metrics for EVERY player that they base changes on.

 

You can proceed to explain that to all the whiners too. But i dont see you do that, now do i?

 

True that Metrics don't lie .

 

#BuffAP #nerfOperatives

[ivanhedgehog]

LOL I have not met a single player who thinks the difficulty setting is even remotely close to where it should be outside of OPS and HM Flashpoints

 

NOT ONE

 

I think you desperately need to widen your social circle and admit your lack of ability if you truly think this issue only commented on by a small minority.

 

I have talked to 400 people that think things are fine. you must talk to the same 4 people. all the time.

[Mikahrone]

True that Metrics don't lie .

 

#BuffAP #nerfOperatives

 

They admitted they do stuff based on lowest common denominator, thats why PvP is a joke since they first nerfed operatives. If you hadnt come to terms with that in 4 years....well...

Edited November 4, 2015 by Mikahrone

[crimsiden]

I have talked to 400 people that think things are fine. you must talk to the same 4 people. all the time.

 

You can press Attack on your companion and he will slaughter everything in the area . How is this fine ?

[Shipwright]

Everyone in the game I know is happy with things, for what it's worth.I know quite a few who quit due to level sync ( these were people who hated it in gw2); been trying to persuade them to return. But aside from those who split over level sync, I haven't heard a bad word from anyone I know.

 

All this stuff is anecdotal anyway; BW will do as they see fit based on metrics suppose. Or whim.

[Shalktonin]

Wut? Are you seriously trying to downplay some one when they want a challenge from a game they play? Also no, alot of people have complained about the lack of difficulty when it comes to this new expansion, stop trying to push it under the rug like it isn't an issue.

 

and just as many don't mind the increase in power. I want to feel like a bad ***, i am the saviour of the universe after all. this is my story not yours.

[VanorDM]

It literally proves nothing. Even if every respondent said they wanted companions nerfed it wouldn't support anything.

 

Then who should the dev's listen to? Who is really the majority? I'm not saying the poll is good or correct, but people constantly claim to be speaking for the majority. So do we simply discount anyone who does that?

 

Because if so, and we discount people's posts here. Then we have no idea what the majority really think, and have to accept that either Bioware does and did what people really want. Or they blew it and the game will suffer.

 

Either way it's completely out of our hands.

[Jadescythe]

So, now explain to OP that BW shouldnt blindly listen to his "feedback" and that BW has metrics for EVERY player that they base changes on.

 

You can proceed to explain that to all the whiners too. But i dont see you do that, now do i?

 

I think they should take all feedback into account when making a decision. It may mean that change is made that affects everyone. It may mean that nothing is changed if it's not possible. It may be that a compromise is made to have difficulty settings for phases like ops/FPs do. It may be that the feedback is used in future content, but the difficulty of what we have does not change.

 

People only tend to respond to the fanatics on the opposite side of an argument because it's easy to make their complaints look ridiculous. In reality, it's better to respond to the level-headed players with a different point of view to understand the concerns and find a solution that works for the largest majority of players possible. If 2/3rds of players like the current state, but we have to make 5% of them unhappy to appease the 1/3rd who are already unhappy, that's a good change. We made 5% unhappy to make 33% happy.

 

There is a difficulty level that is higher than current state that will make more players happy without making the current happy players unhappy. BW just has to work to find the appropriate level as content is released.

[StellaRossa]

I played SWTOR for probably around 1000 hours. For many here, that is probably not a lot. But for me it's my by far most played game of all time (second being probably Rome Total War with around 150-200 hours). I came back after a 1 year break. Got to level 40 or something in a few days. And it's just not fun anymore FOR ME at least. The game is way to easy. The companions are way too OP. There is simply no reason to even group anymore till at least level 65.

 

It really looks stupid when some sith bad guy is telling me how he is gona wreck me, he has unlimited power and stuff like that, and then i just kill him in 5 seconds without losing 1% hp all thanks to my companions.

 

I never excepted this game to be Dark Souls level difficult, but this is just boring. Whatever i do i can't die. I ran into an heroic 2 dungeon with my companion, as healer, aggroed half of the mobs, and went to make a drink. Came back few minutes later with still 100% hp...

[ivanhedgehog]

Quite an arrogant one too. I went from 60-65 on my sniper using Suppressing fire on anything that wasn't a boss. Even fighting Arcann was ridiculously easy...I NEVER dipped below 95% heatlh all the way from 60-65.

If the "majority" want THIS as a game experience then the human race has real serious issues. I pressed ONE KEYBIND for 5 levels. I also lost my favourite companions and gained exactly the same companion as everyone else.

A BOT could have payed through this expac, that's how involving this was. Done the story once and I doubt I can stomach it again....

 

Just remember this one TRUTH: Just because many think a thing, doesn't make that thing right.

 

if you want a challenge..go to medical school, join the marines, something that is actually supposed to be a challenge. the human race is fine. this is just a game, it is supposed to be fun. there are multiple ways to challenge yourself, yet you refuse to use them. this isnt about challenge, it is about being to control other peoples game play and establish a pecking order. hardcore gamers cannot financially support a game that caters to their desires. Wildstar proved that. the 60+ ws devs that were laid off proved that. either tailor your combat experience to give yourself the challenge you desire or find some other outlet that gives you what you want. I did not like level sync, still dont really like it. I still feel they should have had an actual beta test before releasing it. but the companion changes were just what was needed to keep the game flowing. It may be a surprise that i am saying this, but BW did something right.

[Jadescythe]

Then who should the dev's listen to? Who is really the majority? I'm not saying the poll is good or correct, but people constantly claim to be speaking for the majority. So do we simply discount anyone who does that?

 

Because if so, and we discount people's posts here. Then we have no idea what the majority really think, and have to accept that either Bioware does and did what people really want. Or they blew it and the game will suffer.

 

Either way it's completely out of our hands.

 

It's an internet forum, no one speaks for the majority. You speak for yourself and offer criticisms in a way to help improve the game. Ultimately, if players aren't happy they will leave and that will catch BW's attention. I don't expect a majority of players want a harder game and certainly don't want a hard game. But it is evident by the number of players contributing to the discussion here that the current difficulty level is a negative experience for a large enough population to matter.

 

It hasn't been 1 or 2 players posting their concerns. Whether they are the majority or not, it seems to me to be large enough to warrant a second look. Whether that changes the gameplay in the future content, requires difficulty options, or requires a small rebalance to move the scales in one direction, only BW can decide. But if we assume the poll was representative, I don't think BW would find 1/3rd of their player base being unhappy with the game to be an acceptable amount.

[Mikahrone]

if you want a challenge..go to medical school, join the marines, something that is actually supposed to be a challenge. the human race is fine. this is just a game, it is supposed to be fun. there are multiple ways to challenge yourself, yet you refuse to use them. this isnt about challenge, it is about being to control other peoples game play and establish a pecking order. hardcore gamers cannot financially support a game that caters to their desires. Wildstar proved that. the 60+ ws devs that were laid off proved that. either tailor your combat experience to give yourself the challenge you desire or find some other outlet that gives you what you want. I did not like level sync, still dont really like it. I still feel they should have had an actual beta test before releasing it. but the companion changes were just what was needed to keep the game flowing. It may be a surprise that i am saying this, but BW did something right.

 

This. Thers plenty of challenge if you want it. It ISNT about challenge , or finding one.

[Mikahrone]

I think they should take all feedback into account when making a decision. It may mean that change is made that affects everyone. It may mean that nothing is changed if it's not possible. It may be that a compromise is made to have difficulty settings for phases like ops/FPs do. It may be that the feedback is used in future content, but the difficulty of what we have does not change.

 

People only tend to respond to the fanatics on the opposite side of an argument because it's easy to make their complaints look ridiculous. In reality, it's better to respond to the level-headed players with a different point of view to understand the concerns and find a solution that works for the largest majority of players possible. If 2/3rds of players like the current state, but we have to make 5% of them unhappy to appease the 1/3rd who are already unhappy, that's a good change. We made 5% unhappy to make 33% happy.

 

There is a difficulty level that is higher than current state that will make more players happy without making the current happy players unhappy. BW just has to work to find the appropriate level as content is released.

 

Thats awesome.....if ti worked that way. It doesnrt.

 

How about, if we increase difficulty we piss of 50% but make only 2% of those already unhappy happy (for various reasons)

 

Because, you see, you can EFFORTLESSLY make things more difficult for yourself without ANY dev time involved and without pissing off anyone (but that doesnt work other way around). But you dont want to and stomp your foot and demand whole game be changed AND to piss off some people in the process.

 

Also a note that they DO offer you more difficult things already.

 

This is about whole game adjusting to you and only you instead you adjusting to the game.

 

Its very simple in nature.

Edited November 4, 2015 by Mikahrone

[ivanhedgehog]

Actually, for the entirety of the game, BioWare has been listening to the people that wanted everything 'easier'. If you want to claim it's been listening to the people who want it harder, how come its not harder? How come every change has made things easier and more accessible to casuals and yet it continued to bleed subs?

 

They were most decidedly NOT making the game harder. They certainly were not maintaining the status quo difficulty level either.

 

So if your argument were valid, one could say that continually declining subscription numbers as they made the game easier and easier could possibly indicate that what they did was remove from the game any purposeful advancement so that those players who did sub subbed for shorter periods, experienced just what they wanted, and then left and that these periods of activity have grown shorter and shorter over time as the difficulty has been so reduced that its @ 10 hours to max level and you will see 'everything' in the story in that time.

 

So the games decline might arguably be laid at the feet of its accessibility.

 

We have no idea, we'll see how the recent surge and their gamble of making the new content only available to subscriptions plays out. I expect it will be more of the same. People will make the economic choice not to remain subbed and only sub periodically when the amount of new content reaches a point where it appears economically viable to purchase. EG.. most people likely will not consider 1 hour of on rails cut-screen viewing economically worth 15$ but might wait 7 months and get it all in one big chuck for $15.

 

In the meantime, they may bleed additional subs because their MMO-RPG contingent of subs will find that the game is no longer for them.

 

Again, who knows.. time will tell. My guess is that they will find its far to expensive to maintain a TTG type narrative with the model they have presently.

 

thats why every guild was able to complete the ops in SOR in the first month....oh wait a sec, they didnt. evidently bw didnt listen to people wanting everything easier...paid off for them when they didnt double their customer base.

[Jadescythe]

Thats awesome.....if ti worked that way. It doesnrt.

 

How about, if we increase difficulty we piss of 50% but make only 2% of those already unhappy happy (for various reasons)

 

Because, you see, you can EFFORTLESSLY make things more difficult for yourself without ANY dev time involved, but that doesnt work other way around.

 

This is about whole game adjusting to you and only you instead you adjusting to the game.

 

Its very simple in nature.

 

Why not make the game harder and tell players who want easy mode to do X, Y, and Z? Mostly because that's a stupid argument. Why should players who want the game to be as difficult as it was pre 4.0 (really not difficult at all, but not afk mode) have to go out of their way to make it so? If you want to watch cutscenes, there are plenty of games like that already you could be playing instead.

 

The only reason you would tell players to go out of their way and experience the game in a completely different way from you is because you want the game to be catered to you. I made numerous suggestions to what could be done and only one of them was to actually change the difficulty for everyone. And even a slight increase in difficulty would still make this game faceroll easy. I honestly don't see how anyone could argue against having a level difficulty option for all instances. You keep your easy mode, everyone else gets to actually play the game rather than watch it.

[EnkiduNineEight]

LA - I'm a casual myself and would fit into the 'first group' of your two in your proposed (logical fallacy though) binary.

 

My general indication is that games of the old first gen MMO model were too hard to attract a wide audience. I think they were hard often in the worst possible way. Forcing players to form queues to wait for a camping spot so they could kill the same mob repeatedly is poor design. I am a fan of many Quality of Life improvements that remove 'grinds'.

 

My own opinion of this game is that on release it was lacking most all of those things and it was one of, if not the, easiest MMORPG's to play. Certainly there was room for some improvements but it was not hard at all. Your very first character was tougher unless you got help or were twinked, but once you had one character everything was decidedly easier.

 

I'm for a large number of various QoL improvements that remove unnecessary 'grinds' . I certainly wouldn't like this game if it was like EQ or Vanguard.

 

Bu I do argue that many QoL improvements requested for by players have a long term deleterious effect on the game and how it plays. Legacy Gear, for example, meant that long time players could cheaply outfit alts to a degree that their game was too easy. In order to appease them with content/difficulty you made the game out of the range of other players, who then you had to appease to keep them around and happy, and what you end up in, in the end, is this mess now.

 

Sometimes the 'easy' stuff added to a game per player requests seems like a good idea and on the surface it is, but they have far reaching consequences. So I often take a more conservative approach to these changes and I oppose those I can see a very definitive poor outcome from.

[EnkiduNineEight]

thats why every guild was able to complete the ops in SOR in the first month....oh wait a sec, they didnt. evidently bw didnt listen to people wanting everything easier...paid off for them when they didnt double their customer base.

 

Raids are, as one poster in this thread likes to repeat ad infinitum, a very very tiny subset of the player base and participation in them is also limited.

 

Making 'hard' or bugged raid endgame encounters with 2% of the content while making the remaining 98% even easier is pretty much making the game easier. No one really is going to do those raids anyway.

Edited November 4, 2015 by EnkiduNineEight

[crimsiden]

if you want a challenge..go to medical school, join the marines, something that is actually supposed to be a challenge. the human race is fine. this is just a game, it is supposed to be fun. there are multiple ways to challenge yourself, yet you refuse to use them. this isnt about challenge, it is about being to control other peoples game play and establish a pecking order. hardcore gamers cannot financially support a game that caters to their desires. Wildstar proved that. the 60+ ws devs that were laid off proved that. either tailor your combat experience to give yourself the challenge you desire or find some other outlet that gives you what you want. I did not like level sync, still dont really like it. I still feel they should have had an actual beta test before releasing it. but the companion changes were just what was needed to keep the game flowing. It may be a surprise that i am saying this, but BW did something right.

For some people Fun= challenge . Some like mental stimulation and suggestions most say revolve around " well just dont use it companions " " Dont go gear up "" Run around naked ". All of these are ridiculous mmos hell rpgs in general are suppose to be about building your character up to be awesome and taking on game made challenges. Not breaking both your legs, to make everything challenging. Really though from what I hear the game has been dumbing down for years. Its at the point where its not about the game being challenging or not. Its about the game practically playing itself! You literally can just send your companion in, and he will kill everything. This is ridiculous and should not be defended I mean when do we say enough is a ****in enough ?

Edited November 4, 2015 by crimsiden

[Thunderstriken]

There's plenty of challenge if you want it.

 

There has never really been any challenge in single player RPG fights, there certainly has never been any in the history of SWTOR. Single player fights can take longer, but the end result is the same, any player with a pulse wins every time. There's no depth to a single player fight, it's one dimensional. Especially in WoW clones with their super slow combat movement that discourages and mitigates defensive maneuvering.

 

The single player fights in today's SWTOR are no different that those of days gone by with the exception of how fast they are over. If you want the exact same play experience as before, simply count to 10 after each skirmish, 20 if you are a bad.

[Mikahrone]

Why not make the game harder and tell players who want easy mode to do X, Y, and Z? Mostly because that's a stupid argument. Why should players who want the game to be as difficult as it was pre 4.0 (really not difficult at all, but not afk mode) have to go out of their way to make it so? If you want to watch cutscenes, there are plenty of games like that already you could be playing instead.

 

The only reason you would tell players to go out of their way and experience the game in a completely different way from you is because you want the game to be catered to you. I made numerous suggestions to what could be done and only one of them was to actually change the difficulty for everyone. And even a slight increase in difficulty would still make this game faceroll easy. I honestly don't see how anyone could argue against having a level difficulty option for all instances. You keep your easy mode, everyone else gets to actually play the game rather than watch it.

 

aaaaand thats why your rants are worthless.