fdbgjfdhjgkjdhsg Posted October 28, 2015 Share Posted October 28, 2015 Remember the great slot machine fiasco? Almost everyone viewed their displeasure with Bioware catering to the loud but vocal minority. Now do you see any similarities between the slot machine fiasco and the companion nerf? It is the vocal minority and the squeaky wheel that gets the grease. Then we'll see the forums flooded for weeks with rage posts about how bioware did this and bioware that and burn bioware. Is more of this seriously what we need? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tsillah Posted October 28, 2015 Share Posted October 28, 2015 Remember the great slot machine fiasco? Almost everyone viewed their displeasure with Bioware catering to the loud but vocal minority. Now do you see any similarities between the slot machine fiasco and the companion nerf? It is the vocal minority and the squeaky wheel that gets the grease. Then we'll see the forums flooded for weeks with rage posts about how bioware did this and bioware that and burn bioware. Is more of this seriously what we need? If you're worried about the forum being flooded about the subject, perhaps you shouldn't make threads about it? Just a thought. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kalzyk Posted October 28, 2015 Share Posted October 28, 2015 If you're worried about the forum being flooded about the subject, perhaps you shouldn't make threads about it? Just a thought. Who doesn't enjoy reading 9862954629469246296 threads about whether or not to nerf compsnions? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fdbgjfdhjgkjdhsg Posted October 28, 2015 Author Share Posted October 28, 2015 If you're worried about the forum being flooded about the subject, perhaps you shouldn't make threads about it? Just a thought. It isn't specifically about the subject, but events that have a high probability to lead up to the subject if no action is taken. Please read my OP more carefully. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tsillah Posted October 28, 2015 Share Posted October 28, 2015 It isn't specifically about the subject, but events that have a high probability to lead up to the subject if no action is taken. Please read my OP more carefully. Well it's hard to see what you mean for a very simple reason. Who do you consider the vocal minority in the slot machine debacle? The people who complained about the slot machine as it came out or the ones who complained about the nerf? In the end there will always be people complaining about new stuff and it probably won't take long before this thread also turns into a discussion about whether or not companions should be nerfed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fdbgjfdhjgkjdhsg Posted October 28, 2015 Author Share Posted October 28, 2015 Well it's hard to see what you mean for a very simple reason. Who do you consider the vocal minority in the slot machine debacle? The people who complained about the slot machine as it came out or the ones who complained about the nerf? In the end there will always be people complaining about new stuff and it probably won't take long before this thread also turns into a discussion about whether or not companions should be nerfed. Sorry. I should have clarified. By the vocal minority I meant the people who complained about the slot machine when it came out. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vankris Posted October 28, 2015 Share Posted October 28, 2015 give bioware some credits. If they decide to make change in the game, they most likely have discussed, tested, modified, re-tested many times before implementing it. you don't run a multi hundreds of millions dollars company, if not billion, by making decision on a whim, depending on your mood one morning. I work on a very small company, tiny in comparaison, and even then i have to go through 3 different service to change my desk chair. subscription number will be reviewed, player activity will be analysed, and action will be taken consequently. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fdbgjfdhjgkjdhsg Posted October 28, 2015 Author Share Posted October 28, 2015 give bioware some credits. If they decide to make change in the game, they most likely have discussed, tested, modified, re-tested many times before implementing it. you don't run a multi hundreds of millions dollars company, if not billion, by making decision on a whim, depending on your mood one morning. I work on a very small company, tiny in comparaison, and even then i have to go through 3 different service to change my desk chair. subscription number will be reviewed, player activity will be analysed, and action will be taken consequently. You make a valid point, but their last nerf decision was based on catering to a vocal minority. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The_Grand_Nagus Posted October 28, 2015 Share Posted October 28, 2015 The only thing Bioware should be listening to are the metrics, which actually tell them whether any system is performing as expected or desired. They should not base their decisions on forum posts, including this very thread. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Transcendent Posted October 28, 2015 Share Posted October 28, 2015 give bioware some credits. If they decide to make change in the game, they most likely have discussed, tested, modified, re-tested many times before implementing it. What, like the now infamous Cartel Slot Machine fiasco? I'm sure they do all of the above on a consistent basis. /sarcasm. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ReverendAnderson Posted October 28, 2015 Share Posted October 28, 2015 I'm sure there's a way Bioware could make both sides happy. You don't need to freak out quite this hard. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vankris Posted October 28, 2015 Share Posted October 28, 2015 You make a valid point, but their last nerf decision was based on catering to a vocal minority. so you say. More like they had evaluated the impact in the game, made a model to predict the future of the economy of the game, didn't like it so change it. They may have overnerfed it, i don't know. It could be a conservative measure to preserve the game. It's easy to be on the safe side, trying to preserve balance of the game. Introducing very powerful new concept into the game can disrupt the game (even kill the game if player leave because of it) Reguarding companion, i personnally don't think it's sustainable to have a subscription based game too easy, player will blast through it and without compelling gameplay, won't stay. The good ol' carrot and stick to make player go forward. But then again, i am no game designer, nor CEO of a game company, so i could be wrong. it's just my opinion. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Neglience Posted October 28, 2015 Share Posted October 28, 2015 (edited) BW is not doing anything just because it gets posted on the forum. Or did the massive spam after the slot machine nerf bring back the slot machine to it's old state ? No. Edited October 28, 2015 by Neglience Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fdbgjfdhjgkjdhsg Posted October 28, 2015 Author Share Posted October 28, 2015 I'm sure there's a way Bioware could make both sides happy. You don't need to freak out quite this hard. I'm sure they're welcome to suggestions if you come up with an idea to accommodate both sides. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vankris Posted October 28, 2015 Share Posted October 28, 2015 What, like the now infamous Cartel Slot Machine fiasco? I'm sure they do all of the above on a consistent basis. /sarcasm. i'm 100% certain they do. Again, do you even realize what it takes to manage a company this size? Do you know what is a quality management system? ever heard of ISO 9001. This is not a kart selling homemade sandwich on the street we're talking about. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fdbgjfdhjgkjdhsg Posted October 28, 2015 Author Share Posted October 28, 2015 so you say. More like they had evaluated the impact in the game, made a model to predict the future of the economy of the game, didn't like it so change it. They may have overnerfed it, i don't know. It could be a conservative measure to preserve the game. It's easy to be on the safe side, trying to preserve balance of the game. Introducing very powerful new concept into the game can disrupt the game (even kill the game if player leave because of it) Reguarding companion, i personnally don't think it's sustainable to have a subscription based game too easy, player will blast through it and without compelling gameplay, won't stay. The good ol' carrot and stick to make player go forward. But then again, i am no game designer, nor CEO of a game company, so i could be wrong. it's just my opinion. But look at it this way: if people never complained about the slot machines or even mentioned them, do you think that they would have nerfed it? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DaForceiswithme Posted October 28, 2015 Share Posted October 28, 2015 Companion Definitely need to be turned on. especially in the KOTFE story line. Even if you nerf them yourselves by disabling their abilities right after a cut scene they go right back again. you can actually get them to a decent level when you nerf them yourselves. However for 90 percent of the single target enemies they can just tank them all themselves and there is no threat of losing anything. Probably why people are complaining. I know Bioware will look at the metrics but when people really start to get to work leveling up their companions they are going to be even stronger. Got Lena to level 11 just giving her some crummy gifts and her charge ability alone went up 20 percent of damage. Which in turns heels her for that damage and then she turns into ms invincible with a cooldown that is only7.5 seconds. needs a fixin. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vankris Posted October 28, 2015 Share Posted October 28, 2015 But look at it this way: if people never complained about the slot machines or even mentioned them, do you think that they would have nerfed it? Blizzard (yes world of warcraft's blizzard) once said that they monitor forums for ideas, suggestions, reactions but never made a game change simply based on forums. They actually collect tons of data and have tons of metrics to balance their game. If a mob get killed too often, they will look into it, maybe there is a bug in his loot table that player exploit. If player die too often from a given enemy, maybe that enemy is too strong. etc... Yes, i think a company like bioware closely monitor their 100-million dollars game and make sure no one or nothing unforseen is breaking it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fdbgjfdhjgkjdhsg Posted October 28, 2015 Author Share Posted October 28, 2015 Companion Definitely need to be turned on. especially in the KOTFE story line. Even if you nerf them yourselves by disabling their abilities right after a cut scene they go right back again. you can actually get them to a decent level when you nerf them yourselves. However for 90 percent of the single target enemies they can just tank them all themselves and there is no threat of losing anything. Probably why people are complaining. I know Bioware will look at the metrics but when people really start to get to work leveling up their companions they are going to be even stronger. Got Lena to level 11 just giving her some crummy gifts and her charge ability alone went up 20 percent of damage. Which in turns heels her for that damage and then she turns into ms invincible with a cooldown that is only7.5 seconds. needs a fixin. I do like that you are presenting metrics rather than pestering them to change it because someone says so. If they have a logical reason to change things, than it is completely understandable. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DaForceiswithme Posted October 28, 2015 Share Posted October 28, 2015 I'm sure they're welcome to suggestions if you come up with an idea to accommodate both sides. Just me personally I think the skills need to be re worked which probably takes more than a weekly patch to do I would think. Also i adjust them weaker to single target damage to accommodate people that want more of a challenge. let trash mobs be trash mobs so people feel good about their progress. The strong elites make people have to input buttons to have to beat them. but again they should be in a class where you shouldn't lose unless you pull too much Then a boss fight can be a boss fight again. just MHO. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DaForceiswithme Posted October 28, 2015 Share Posted October 28, 2015 I do like that you are presenting metrics rather than pestering them to change it because someone says so. If they have a logical reason to change things, than it is completely understandable. I have been home sick all week and been trying to test as much as i can. I know i have been somewhat whiney about this subject but i really want the game to do well and count me in the camp that thinks that most new players will just want to do the story and then leave and if we hand them a feeling that this game is more of a digital novel then whats stopping them from not playing and just watching it on someones YouTube channel. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vankris Posted October 28, 2015 Share Posted October 28, 2015 a youtube game critic by the name of totalbiscuit once said that, in his opinion, a game need to have a "state of failure". In other words, for a game to actually be a game, it needs to give a chance to player to fail (and try again obviously) i would sort of agree, though probably incomplete. Without the opportunity to fail, game is loosing much of it's appeal. Iff you are attack by an enemy, if the companion take over and kills it withtout you doing anything, there were never a chance to fail. Like one said, we need low to have high, otherwise, it's just a monotone flat line. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deyjarl Posted October 28, 2015 Share Posted October 28, 2015 Except the proof is right in front of us how OP they are. Most on the nerf side aren't saying nerf them back to 3.0 levels. But as they are it is pretty ridiculous. My health bar doesn't move if I have a healer out, even against elites. That is crazy to make content that pointless. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SaerethDL Posted October 28, 2015 Share Posted October 28, 2015 you seem pretty loud yourself. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fdbgjfdhjgkjdhsg Posted October 28, 2015 Author Share Posted October 28, 2015 a youtube game critic by the name of totalbiscuit once said that, in his opinion, a game need to have a "state of failure". In other words, for a game to actually be a game, it needs to give a chance to player to fail (and try again obviously) i would sort of agree, though probably incomplete. Without the opportunity to fail, game is loosing much of it's appeal. Iff you are attack by an enemy, if the companion take over and kills it withtout you doing anything, there were never a chance to fail. Like one said, we need low to have high, otherwise, it's just a monotone flat line. Like I said, I have no problem with them changing things, just as long as their decision wasn't based off of a small group of players whining on the forums. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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