Wolvereen Posted October 20, 2015 Share Posted October 20, 2015 hello, i found a really annoying bug in the new patch: force leap isn't 0-30m since the patch, it's 10-30m and this is gamebreaking for me, because it absolutely destroys my play style can you hotfix this bug asap? thx Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joefjr Posted October 20, 2015 Share Posted October 20, 2015 hello, i found a really annoying bug in the new patch: force leap isn't 0-30m since the patch, it's 10-30m and this is gamebreaking for me, because it absolutely destroys my play style can you hotfix this bug asap? thx Sorry but its one of those many classes changes that were NOT listed in the OFFICIAL patch notes, it's not a bug. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Krazyfuri Posted October 20, 2015 Share Posted October 20, 2015 How about the Force Rend on a 15 sec cooldown, is it a change too? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Master-Nala Posted October 20, 2015 Share Posted October 20, 2015 Watchman/Annihilation underwent a number of major changes. One would think those would be in the patch notes since they change the entire flavor of the spec. I can't link it, but if you check the major fansites you can find the changes listed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wolvereen Posted October 20, 2015 Author Share Posted October 20, 2015 Sorry but its one of those many classes changes that were NOT listed in the OFFICIAL patch notes, it's not a bug. ***?? this skill was the main reason i played a sentinel or marauder^^ i loved jumping from every distance and now i have to step back a few feet to leap again??? it builds up focus too, so if this is really a change, it's a huge nerf! and most of all: IT'S KILLING THE FUN PLAYING A SENTINEL!!!!! so EA/BW has a "no fun alllowed"-policy too? ...sorry, but this nerf is a no-go, it really spoils the excitement of the new addon! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ascensionthree Posted October 20, 2015 Share Posted October 20, 2015 This thread and the op are really doing wonders for the Sentinel stereotype. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thereter Posted October 21, 2015 Share Posted October 21, 2015 Switch to fury/concentration if you wanna leap all the time. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Diviciacus Posted October 21, 2015 Share Posted October 21, 2015 ***?? this skill was the main reason i played a sentinel or marauder^^ i loved jumping from every distance and now i have to step back a few feet to leap again??? it builds up focus too, so if this is really a change, it's a huge nerf! and most of all: IT'S KILLING THE FUN PLAYING A SENTINEL!!!!! so EA/BW has a "no fun alllowed"-policy too? ...sorry, but this nerf is a no-go, it really spoils the excitement of the new addon! Force leap was removed as an in-rotation focus builder. It was replaced with Force Melt at level 10, which no longer costs 2 focus, but instead generates 4. The rotation is completely different for Watchman/Annihiliation now. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wolvereen Posted October 21, 2015 Author Share Posted October 21, 2015 Force leap was removed as an in-rotation focus builder. It was replaced with Force Melt at level 10, which no longer costs 2 focus, but instead generates 4. The rotation is completely different for Watchman/Annihiliation now. but WHY? haven't read any complaints about the old rotation^^ i would be ok if BW just switch the generator, but a nerf to the range just cupcakes me off... the old rotation was fine btw! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kalzyk Posted October 21, 2015 Share Posted October 21, 2015 but WHY? haven't read any complaints about the old rotation^^ i would be ok if BW just switch the generator, but a nerf to the range just cupcakes me off... the old rotation was fine btw! You have a point, people only complained about the rotation every 15 minutes, I can see how you'd miss that. That being said I think combat can still jump around, not positive but you'll have to either change playstyle or change specs. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Myriandore Posted October 21, 2015 Share Posted October 21, 2015 (edited) Don't let cynics make it sound like your point isn't valid. I feel pretty much the same and it's not necessarily about rotations or nerf (tho in effect it sort of is a nerf), but essentially: Play style. That removal totally kills the dynamics of playing watchman. And NO to all the Captain Obvious of this world - unless it's a situational absolute need, respeccing combat is not an option to some of us. Edited October 21, 2015 by Myriandore Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alsyienne Posted October 21, 2015 Share Posted October 21, 2015 I picked watchman many years ago, when I first started playing, specifically because of the "jump from any distance in range" deal. It was quite fun. The 3.0 rotation was a little clunky, but that doesn't mean they should have changed the one big perk of the class. It was very jarring, and I'm having a hard time getting used to it. I really, really, really hope they change it back. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kaos_KidSWTOR Posted October 21, 2015 Share Posted October 21, 2015 I picked watchman many years ago, when I first started playing, specifically because of the "jump from any distance in range" deal. It was quite fun. The 3.0 rotation was a little clunky, but that doesn't mean they should have changed the one big perk of the class. It was very jarring, and I'm having a hard time getting used to it. I really, really, really hope they change it back. They will not. It was a problem in most boss fights to use Force Charge/Force Leap to build the extra focus. You would leap BACKWARDS typically into death, if you were "inside" the model of an entity, this was extremely apparent with the Core portion of the Revan fight in Temple of Sacrifice, using Watchman spec was a death sentence, because you would every 12s leap backwards to keep your rotation flowing, and you would be moved out of the circle where you can deal damage, and most likely be put into an Abberation and die. This resolves that problem, and works much better, it IS jarring to work with though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheRealVeranor Posted October 22, 2015 Share Posted October 22, 2015 They will not. It was a problem in most boss fights to use Force Charge/Force Leap to build the extra focus. You would leap BACKWARDS typically into death, if you were "inside" the model of an entity, this was extremely apparent with the Core portion of the Revan fight in Temple of Sacrifice, using Watchman spec was a death sentence, because you would every 12s leap backwards to keep your rotation flowing, and you would be moved out of the circle where you can deal damage, and most likely be put into an Abberation and die. This resolves that problem, and works much better, it IS jarring to work with though. This is an extremely valid and notable point here. It did cause problems in that fight. If it didn't kill you, you were definitely taken out of the bubble. Running back was also DPS limiting in that respect. Personally, I think we all just need a lot more time with the changes to figure out how best to proceed. I'm sure someone will shortly come up with a cookie cutter build that everyone will be on in the next month or so, and then notable folks on here (the experts) will likely have minor adjustments, making it yet again a valid and useful spec. I'm going to reserve my judgments until 1-2 months have passed. The change is not crippling, from what I can tell from parsing it looks like we can still get through a rotation fine. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Krazyfuri Posted October 22, 2015 Share Posted October 22, 2015 This is an extremely valid and notable point here. It did cause problems in that fight. If it didn't kill you, you were definitely taken out of the bubble. Running back was also DPS limiting in that respect. Personally, I think we all just need a lot more time with the changes to figure out how best to proceed. I'm sure someone will shortly come up with a cookie cutter build that everyone will be on in the next month or so, and then notable folks on here (the experts) will likely have minor adjustments, making it yet again a valid and useful spec. I'm going to reserve my judgments until 1-2 months have passed. The change is not crippling, from what I can tell from parsing it looks like we can still get through a rotation fine. The problem is that its not only a viability/rotation change, it also affects the visual of the class play style and what players liked to have on that specific skill tree. I understand the focus build and priority on the rotation change towards Force Rend, however, what I do not get is the removal of the uniqueness that Annihilation had regarding its Force Charge. What comes to mind is, why not just keep the range as it was ( without a minimum range limit ) without generating focus, since its been switched to Force Rend? It looks just like an unnecessary nerf. One could argue that its just a form of ''compensation'' to decrease the leap's utility since you'll be buffing another skill, however, when you look at the mobility buffs that the other classes in the game got, its just a terrible nerf to this one specific skill tree, not even marauder/sentinel as a whole. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WooliestWorm Posted October 22, 2015 Share Posted October 22, 2015 Honestly I consider this to potentially be a buff rather than a nerf, I don't know about specific numbers dps wise but the fact we don't have to use our main gap close, which doesn't even do that much damage, as part of our rotation means we'll have it available for those inevitable knockbacks / enemy mobility as well as preventing the aforementioned issue involving hitboxes in certain fights. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lodinn Posted October 22, 2015 Share Posted October 22, 2015 They will not. It was a problem in most boss fights to use Force Charge/Force Leap to build the extra focus. You would leap BACKWARDS typically into death, if you were "inside" the model of an entity, this was extremely apparent with the Core portion of the Revan fight in Temple of Sacrifice, using Watchman spec was a death sentence, because you would every 12s leap backwards to keep your rotation flowing, and you would be moved out of the circle where you can deal damage, and most likely be put into an Abberation and die. This resolves that problem, and works much better, it IS jarring to work with though. You're doing it wrong :-p Rage management on core is tight but far from being really hard thanks to Cloak of Pain and 4 rage on knockaround utility, and leaps helped to cheese Heartbeat (face yourself properly, leap and get pulled back, very convenient). Not to say "no-leap" rotation was an actual manageable thing, killing part of the dps but keeping you smooth with positioning. And it still was fun! Besides, "all on 9s cd" is no fun either. But OP is right, 10m restriction is a total spec killer for me, hard to keep it flowing from now on. All the boss combat feels... Rippled now. Grrrr Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jauvtus Posted October 22, 2015 Share Posted October 22, 2015 The problem is that its not only a viability/rotation change, it also affects the visual of the class play style and what players liked to have on that specific skill tree. I understand the focus build and priority on the rotation change towards Force Rend, however, what I do not get is the removal of the uniqueness that Annihilation had regarding its Force Charge. What comes to mind is, why not just keep the range as it was ( without a minimum range limit ) without generating focus, since its been switched to Force Rend? It looks just like an unnecessary nerf. One could argue that its just a form of ''compensation'' to decrease the leap's utility since you'll be buffing another skill, however, when you look at the mobility buffs that the other classes in the game got, its just a terrible nerf to this one specific skill tree, not even marauder/sentinel as a whole. This was the last nail in the coffin for me for WM. Lorewise I prefer Ataru, but 2.X WM playstyle beat that, the leap Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jauvtus Posted October 22, 2015 Share Posted October 22, 2015 The problem is that its not only a viability/rotation change, it also affects the visual of the class play style and what players liked to have on that specific skill tree. I understand the focus build and priority on the rotation change towards Force Rend, however, what I do not get is the removal of the uniqueness that Annihilation had regarding its Force Charge. What comes to mind is, why not just keep the range as it was ( without a minimum range limit ) without generating focus, since its been switched to Force Rend? It looks just like an unnecessary nerf. One could argue that its just a form of ''compensation'' to decrease the leap's utility since you'll be buffing another skill, however, when you look at the mobility buffs that the other classes in the game got, its just a terrible nerf to this one specific skill tree, not even marauder/sentinel as a whole. This was the last nail in the coffin for me for WM. Lorewise I prefer Ataru, but 2.X WM playstyle beat that, the leaping, Cauterizing, random reset etc. Now we reached the point where they killed literally ALL aspects I loved about the spec. At least they didn't wreck Combat, I switched to that myself. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Myriandore Posted October 22, 2015 Share Posted October 22, 2015 ... I'm going to reserve my judgments until 1-2 months have passed. The change is not crippling, from what I can tell from parsing it looks like we can still get through a rotation fine. Any genuine watchman / annihilation doesn't need 2 months; in 10 seconds into a fight he / she knows something MAJOR is wrong. And it is NOT just about parses... That short leap is integral part of how we see, move and plan tactically. Believe me, I don't exaggerate when I say that the removal of that ability is like having had a limb removed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jasa Posted October 22, 2015 Share Posted October 22, 2015 (edited) I have played watchman from the begining and I really understand people who say it's like missing a limb. We lost alot of mobility which is quite important for melee dps. I didn't really think leap as a focus builder as much as a gap closer. We got some mobility back with blade blitz and I can see it having some uses, but it's way too imprecise to replace the leap. I didn't like changes to watchman spec in 3.0 and I don't like them now sadly I don't believe any changes will come so I will just switch to some other class. Sentinel doesn't feel enjoyable anymore. EDIT: It took while to get used to but after trying out oofalong's rotation and few operations I have changed my mind. I don't miss lower range on leap anymore and watchman feels alot better than what it was in 3.0. Edited October 29, 2015 by Jasa Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vodrin Posted October 22, 2015 Share Posted October 22, 2015 I play watchman a fair amount in PvP and surprisingly I am not missing the 0 range leap much. Of course I run a bunch of utilities that are nothing more than gap closers, so take that into consideration. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lodinn Posted October 22, 2015 Share Posted October 22, 2015 I have played watchman from the begining and I really understand people who say it's like missing a limb. We lost alot of mobility which is quite important for melee dps. I didn't really think leap as a focus builder as much as a gap closer. We got some mobility back with blade blitz and I can see it having some uses, but it's way too imprecise to replace the leap. I didn't like changes to watchman spec in 3.0 and I don't like them now sadly I don't believe any changes will come so I will just switch to some other class. Sentinel doesn't feel enjoyable anymore. That. Also, i picked up every single utility for mobility essentially to flow through the fight however i saw fit; now all I can is cheesy roll all around the place in FPs with Mad Dash since it doesn't deal damage anyway. Time for "Hitler mains a marauder" revamp. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RainenFyre Posted October 29, 2015 Share Posted October 29, 2015 If you are sentinel or a marauder who is missing the 0-30m range of watchman/annihilation sec please check out my suggestion to the Force Leap skill and see if we can keep it going in the suggestions forum. http://www.swtor.com/community/showthread.php?p=8567893#post8567893 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sumquy Posted October 29, 2015 Share Posted October 29, 2015 bump. i want my force leap back Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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