Conquest Reward Issues and Fallen Empire

[XiamaraSimi]

Except that the majority will be just playing the story...so...

 

Conquest is more a side project with people, a month off won't kill the game. You're just mad that you can't craft to win in conquests anymore lol

 

I have no need to "craft to win", no point in wasting mats if planets needed dont come into rotation (im looking at you Rishi/Yavin) If i dont need a planetary title, why would i flush credits (mats) down the toilet?

 

I am mad that they are making it "pvp to craft"

 

I can live perfectly fine with never getting Yavin or Rishi for Conqueror title. I dont however enjoy being told that if i wish to craft, that i have to pvp/gsf, neither of which i enjoy or want to do, to get points for conquest to get mats necessary to craft.

Edited October 7, 2015 by XiamaraSimi

[CaptRogue]

Well the big issue I see is that November is the month of Thanksgiving, which they typically take off (for the month) to spend quality time with their families...then December is the month of Christmas, and everyone knows that the Devs take the entire month off to spend time with their families...followed by the Month of New Years, which is again taken off to spend time with their attention deprived families.

 

Way to exagerate & feed this hype train Tux.

 

They do not take off the whole month of November for Thanksgiving. The expac will have been out a month before Thanksgiving even hits.

When they take off in Dec, it is like a week before Christmas & goes into New Year's. Which is basically a 2 week vacation.

Don't cause more drama than is already needed for this group.

[TUXs]

Way to exagerate & feed this hype train Tux.

 

They do not take off the whole month of November for Thanksgiving. The expac will have been out a month before Thanksgiving even hits.

When they take off in Dec, it is like a week before Christmas & goes into New Year's. Which is basically a 2 week vacation.

Don't cause more drama than is already needed for this group.

I may be exaggerating some, but I assure you I'm much closer to the truth than you are.

 

And I'm not creating drama, it's setting expectations low. Nov-Jan are extremely slow...

[Reno_Tarshil]

It's gonna be a crazy winter season.

[JourrnoRush]

Well the big issue I see is that November is the month of Thanksgiving, which they typically take off (for the month) to spend quality time with their families...then December is the month of Christmas, and everyone knows that the Devs take the entire month off to spend time with their families...followed by the Month of New Years, which is again taken off to spend time with their attention deprived families.

 

 

 

I got news for ya buddy...it'll be more than a month.

 

Nah, it will be fixed on time <3

[TUXs]

Nah, it will be fixed on time <3

 

I hope so

[Reno_Tarshil]

I hope so

 

I don't think it will be.

[TX_Angel]

Except that the majority will be just playing the story...so...

 

Conquest is more a side project with people, a month off won't kill the game. You're just mad that you can't craft to win in conquests anymore lol

 

Would conquest going away kill the game? No, of course not... No one thing is likely to do that...

 

The point that is being made is that this is but one of many things, they each add up after awhile. Yes, lots of people will be doing the story for the first month, but then what?

 

Is there enough left to keep a decent sized player base? Harb is ok, but the other servers seem quiet. Perhaps we'll get another merge, but at some point you drop below the minimum viable number of people playing to have it function properly.

[Banthabreeder]

Why is this not stickied? Or not on the new launcher? Or an email sent out to all users?

 

A lot of players who don't even read these forums have no knowledge that Conquests are broken and that they will remain broken past 4.0 release. They are playing the game like usual and probably wasting their mats crafting unknowing that they won't receive guild rewards if their guild ends up in the top 10 or even credit or the title if they come in 1st place.

[Alssaran]

I will also add my...worded criticism to the fact that you introduce a conquest only material, just to lock conquest out for the duration of at least a month.

 

I think it is a good decision to take conquest away for a few weeks to actually find out what's wrong. I'd even celebrate the idea of you taking away conquest for two months (Yes. A whole month longer than anticipated) to change a few things. Give some new boss opportunities to guilds on the actual planet. Make some capturable PvP flags on each planet which get unlocked when the conquest of that world starts. Grant a certain amount of conquest points for each player kill on the respective planet. Heck, introduce rare mobs which give a consumable item that grants 5k CP or something. Then someone would actually hunt those mobs on the planet itself to do something.

 

Then roll out everything in January and we can all have biscuits and tea.

 

However

 

Taking away conquest for at least an entire month, with the possibility of it being a longer timeframe, after introducing a crafting component that unlocks endgame crafted gear seems like a very risky, even dangerous move. Consider the possibility of at least making the item in question obtainable via other means. Buying it for a good portion of commendations or dropping it from HM FP. Just for the 1-2 months timeframe it would take you to fix the issues. Then place it in conquest rewards again.

 

Doing this seems overly risky and counter-productive to the actual end game experience. Do not underestimate the issues you can have when players are locked out of high-end crafting. Even with an amazing and long story I'd guess it takes me four days to get my first 65. Locking the material out for at least a month seems to negatively impact that experience, hm?

 

Please. Take your time. Reconsider the change. Make it otherwise available for the duration and use a longer timeframe to make some necessary adjustments and additions to the conquest system. Release the new system with 4.1. If necessary you can put the crafting component back in then.

 

But don't add it into conquest in two weeks and then lock it out completely for at least a month. That's going to backfire hard.

[Nitblade]

This new gear requires a new Crafting material that can only be acquired by completing your personal Conquest goals.

 

And than you announce:

 

As a result, beginning on October 20th when we launch Early Access to Knights of the Fallen Empire, we will turn off Conquest events for at least the following month. Once we resolve the issue, we will let you know when to expect Conquest events to return.

 

Realy funny

 

Abolutely typical of BW at all the new expansion, early access IS the Beta and they always have something so broken it ain't funny.

 

BW would like to say Thank You for actually Paying them to Beta Test their game

[Shfinky]

I play all parts of the game. PVP. PVE. RP.

PVP= A few things broken.

PVE= A massive amount of things broken and it gets worse every patch.

RP- we make our own rules and do our own thing. EA/Bioware cant touch us. =Working

 

I really hope they fix the conquests. i have so many chars waiting for so much stuff from 3 conquest wins and 2 top tens across 20+ characters.

 

Words fail me at the total and utter arrogance coming from EAware. 4.0 broken before it even launches(No conquest high end mats)?

Everyone be happy!! you're getting 2% more story line and be even happier that we are removing/changing 50% of the game features.

We love Star Wars...it seems EA know this and think they can treat us like poop Safe in the knowledge that no matter how they screw us and the game, we will come back for more like a bunch of moronic drug addicts!

 

Prefered status from December, at least that way i'm getting value for money. (A tiny protest at the disgusting way EA treat us)

 

 

 

 

Probably won't stop subbing as i'm a moronic drug addict!

[ShawDou]

Taking away conquest for at least an entire month, with the possibility of it being a longer timeframe, after introducing a crafting component that unlocks endgame crafted gear seems like a very risky, even dangerous move. Consider the possibility of at least making the item in question obtainable via other means. Buying it for a good portion of commendations or dropping it from HM FP. Just for the 1-2 months timeframe it would take you to fix the issues. Then place it in conquest rewards again.

 

Doing this seems overly risky and counter-productive to the actual end game experience. Do not underestimate the issues you can have when players are locked out of high-end crafting. Even with an amazing and long story I'd guess it takes me four days to get my first 65. Locking the material out for at least a month seems to negatively impact that experience, hm?

 

This summons is exactly. How i see it, it is almost like you say:

 

We introduce great endgame crafting options for all people who play conquest, but we dont want you to use it right now. Go play our awesome story and dont bother with it until we allow it.

[UlaVii]

I think the people upset about how the conquest problem is now going to affect the 4.0 gear crafting thing should relax a bit. The post they made yesterday about the new endgame gear crafting shows that it probably won't be that big a deal.

 

I think it was worded kinda funny but the way I understood it was that there are 4 levels of gear:

 

Endgame Gear

• This is like starter level gear for level 65s
  
• You get the schematic from the crew skill vendor
  
• Includes everything: Shells/Mods/Relics/Implants/Earpieces
  
• Need new Conquest Mat called “Strategic Resource Matrix” which get as personal CQ reward
  

 

Story Mode Gear

• You get this from reverse engineering Endgame
  
• May/may not use the Strategic Resource Matrix
  
• Includes everything: Shells/Mods/Relics/Implants/Earpieces
  

 

Hard Mode Gear

• You get this from reverse engineering Story Mode
  
• May/may not use the Strategic Resource Matrix
  
• Includes everything: Shells/Mods/Relics/Implants/Earpieces
  

 

Operations Gear

• Only Mods, Relics, Implants, and Earpieces
  
• No Shells unless you earn them
  
• Need new Operation Mat called “Dark Matter Catalyst” which you get from boss kills
  

 

So thinking of this in terms of current gear, it goes crap, crap, crap, yaaay!

 

Unless you're a terrible raider then you can probably start clearing the story mode raids in Endgame gear and now instead of just 2 raids dropping gear and crafting mats, it's all of them. To me that says it will be quicker than normal for the raid teams to get at least the lower tier of operations gear, if there are two tiers again.

 

Don't get me wrong, I'm pissed the conquest is broken and at their terrible lack of communication but it's not going to stop raid groups from progressing.

Edited October 8, 2015 by UlaVii

[Eillack]

Nah, it will be fixed on time <3

 

I remember when false hope used to be this strong.

[Suromir]

Pathetic...but sadly typicaly. BioWare; the short bus of dev teams.

[Alssaran]

Pathetic...but sadly typicaly. BioWare; the short bus of dev teams.

 

Yes. Let's insult Bioware. That's certainly going to be more helpful than making actual suggestions as to how this problem can be solved. *sarcasm off*

[LegionAlpha]

Yes. Let's insult Bioware. That's certainly going to be more helpful than making actual suggestions as to how this problem can be solved. *sarcasm off*

 

They don't listen to suggestions as is and ppl have made suggestions. They continue to trudge on as if they see themselves as crusaders fighting only a minority that hate their changed though it's actually the majority. Insult is not what is happening. It's merely finding metaphors to show bioware the depths of the epic fails occurring in their end. Maybe they will learn then since they don't take suggestions

[dscount]

Well.. they should just give each character that hits level 65 ONE purple strategic MAT each week until they complete the repairs to said Conquest system.

 

Just throwing out some options. ;0)

[LegionAlpha]

At this point ive just run out of words... And we though 3.0 lauch/ravagergate/et cetera was a clusterF... this is shaping up to be one of even more epic proportions....

 

Had a friend ask today if he and his wife should come back, they had taken a break to play Warlords of Draenor, i linked them the combat, crafting, and conquest blogs, and they decided not to return. (I decided to just let them read and decide without my input, hence the linked blogs)

 

The fact that one need not add explanation to show how stupid these changes are and yet an outsider that used to play sees it for what it is should speak volumes to bioware. Bioware is blinding themselves in false pride. Just cuz you think your game is changing for the better does not mean it is...

[LegionAlpha]

I may be exaggerating some, but I assure you I'm much closer to the truth than you are.

 

And I'm not creating drama, it's setting expectations low. Nov-Jan are extremely slow...

 

You clearly don't work for a decent company or job. They don't get a month off for thanksgiving and a month off for Christmas. This is Texas, USA. Not some European company where every other day is holiday...

 

People these days....

Edited October 8, 2015 by LegionAlpha

[Alssaran]

They don't listen to suggestions as is and ppl have made suggestions. They continue to trudge on as if they see themselves as crusaders fighting only a minority that hate their changed though it's actually the majority. Insult is not what is happening. It's merely finding metaphors to show bioware the depths of the epic fails occurring in their end. Maybe they will learn then since they don't take suggestions

 

That is subjective. I have known of quite a few suggestions that have made it past the wall of crazy in recent times. People suggested an increase in SH hook sizes. Bioware delivered. People suggested changing the Weekly on CZ-198 because finding groups for the tactical was a drag. Bioware changed that. The list can continue.

 

Besides: You really do not have proof that you are a majority of people. Just because the people who dislike the change are the most vocal faction doesn't mean they are the most represented and biggest faction. People have conducted strawpolls on quite a few things in the past months.

 

No new operations with KotFE release for a while. Hardcore PvE players assumed they were a majority. They campaigned under the impression that they were the biggest contributor to the game and acted based on the assumption that "We are a majority!". A strawpoll on reddit conducted that they are indeed not. A stunning 75% were completley oblivious to the change and said: "I don't mind." or "Well, as long as Bioware delivers at some point in the future, I can live with it for now.". Only 25% were of the faction that no operations was a killer. That wasn't a majority.

 

Removal of NiM operations from the game. There would be no new NiM content going into KotFE. People came here and spoke of a majority. That there are many people who dislike the change. The truth? Less than 1% of the PvE playerbase actually do NiM content. Not a single boss. Yet people still assumed a majority.

 

People need to stop this "majority" thing. There is none. The people vocal on the forum are less than 1% of the games actual playerbase. Nobody has a majority here since there are a dozen different ways to play this game, each with its own interests. Nine out of ten people from my friends list don't even care for the changes. They are like: "Sure. Doesn't change anything for me though. I can live with that.".

 

That up there was also clearly an insult. It might have been veiled as a metaphor, but one can easily read the insult. Don't defend that. I will also leave this here:

 

 

One of the things that really infuses the workplace here is value that players are the most important thing, period. I am convinced that Rioters really believe that in their souls and we’re pretty good about not hiring people who aren’t bought into that value. If it has felt lately that we’re putting ourselves up on a pedestal over you guys, then that’s just a communication failure on our part. I love that aspect of Riot. We aren’t the VIPs; you guys are. If you don’t feel that way, then we’re just going to have to work harder to convince you.

 

Now, I’m not going to comment on the story elements at all. That’s not my gig and I’m not armed with the proper context to have that conversation. Apologies in advance.

 

I can talk about the champion updates and related issues about gameplay such as the Fortify and defensive play topics mentioned by the OP.

 

First, we don’t know better than players. We have some experience making games and hopefully we’ve hired folks with some natural talent for game development, but at the end of the day players are going to decide if they play the game or not. To put it in a bland business sentiment, this product is for you. The biggest challenge here is that players rarely speak with one voice. It may seem to you that “everyone” wanted a champion changed in a certain way or even all the “X players” really liked a specific identity that we decided to change. It’s just rarely that cut and dried. (And man, this job would be so much easier if it were.)

 

Remember that only a small minority of players ever post on forums, or reach out to us on Reddit or Twitter, and also remember most of you are only viewing those conversations in one or two languages at most. What may seem like universal consensus is rarely anything close to that.

 

And that’s okay! We’re not trying to design a game based on community vote, and you probably wouldn’t be happy with the results anyway. We do very much value player feedback and we use it to make informed decisions. That’s the reason I cracked open this (long) thread this morning — to see what you guys thought.

 

To provide some context on champion updates specifically, here is the way I view player sentiment. Feel free to disagree.

 

Player response, again IMO, generally falls into one of these categories:

 

1) I am indifferent to this champion or her changes.

2) I play the champion because she is broken, so I’m not going to be happy once she is fixed.

3) I believe the champion needs to be updated, but I am excited about one particular direction, which is unlikely to be the one Riot chooses.

4) I believe the champion needs to be updated, and either Riot managed to pick the direction I liked, or I was happy just to see an update period.

 

Out of those four categories, you’re going to see a lot of communication from players in groups 2 and 3. Indifferent group 1 dudes are unlikely to post that they are still indifferent. Group 4 might post a little. As a result, it can feel like there is a lot of negative sentiment every time we make a change. We keep gathering data though, to make sure in the long term that the champ is getting more play and that players are enjoying playing her. To be fair, we sometimes miss the mark, or frequently a champion requires a few subsequent rounds of updates to really deliver on the promise of the update.

 

I’m not sure of a better way to operate other than considering player feedback in this way. I don’t think polls or votes would really be a strong way to design a game. I’m not sure how we could isolate the most hardcore or passionate players of a specific champion and redesign her with the aim of pleasing those dudes. We’re totally open to suggestions though. How would you determine the best way to update a champion? I’m not asking because we are without a process, but because some of you don’t seem happy with that process.

 

 

This is an interview and a clarification from Ghostcrawler over at Riot, who was one of the more respected community managers at Blizzard Entertainment during its prime. It might shed some light on the majority issue and why suggestions seem to be rarely taken into account for some.

 

Had a friend ask today if he and his wife should come back, they had taken a break to play Warlords of Draenor, i linked them the combat, crafting, and conquest blogs, and they decided not to return. (I decided to just let them read and decide without my input, hence the linked blogs)

 

And I had four friends return precisely after reading those changes. It just goes to show how everything is never cut and dry. You might not like the changes, but not everyone thinks that way.

Edited October 8, 2015 by Alssaran

[LegionAlpha]

That is subjective. I have known of quite a few suggestions that have made it past the wall of crazy in recent times. People suggested an increase in SH hook sizes. Bioware delivered. People suggested changing the Weekly on CZ-198 because finding groups for the tactical was a drag. Bioware changed that. The list can continue.

 

Besides: You really do not have proof that you are a majority of people. Just because the people who dislike the change are the most vocal faction doesn't mean they are the most represented and biggest faction. People have conducted strawpolls on quite a few things in the past months.

 

No new operations with KotFE release for a while. Hardcore PvE players assumed they were a majority. They campaigned under the impression that they were the biggest contributor to the game and acted based on the assumption that "We are a majority!". A strawpoll on reddit conducted that they are indeed not. A stunning 75% were completley oblivious to the change and said: "I don't mind." or "Well, as long as Bioware delivers at some point in the future, I can live with it for now.". Only 25% were of the faction that no operations was a killer. That wasn't a majority.

 

Removal of NiM operations from the game. There would be no new NiM content going into KotFE. People came here and spoke of a majority. That there are many people who dislike the change. The truth? Less than 1% of the PvE playerbase actually do NiM content. Not a single boss. Yet people still assumed a majority.

 

People need to stop this "majority" thing. There is none. The people vocal on the forum are less than 1% of the games actual playerbase. Nobody has a majority here since there are a dozen different ways to play this game, each with its own interests. Nine out of ten people from my friends list don't even care for the changes. They are like: "Sure. Doesn't change anything for me though. I can live with that.".

 

That up there was also clearly an insult. It might have been veiled as a metaphor, but one can easily read the insult. Don't defend that. I will also leave this here:

 

 

One of the things that really infuses the workplace here is value that players are the most important thing, period. I am convinced that Rioters really believe that in their souls and we’re pretty good about not hiring people who aren’t bought into that value. If it has felt lately that we’re putting ourselves up on a pedestal over you guys, then that’s just a communication failure on our part. I love that aspect of Riot. We aren’t the VIPs; you guys are. If you don’t feel that way, then we’re just going to have to work harder to convince you.

 

Now, I’m not going to comment on the story elements at all. That’s not my gig and I’m not armed with the proper context to have that conversation. Apologies in advance.

 

I can talk about the champion updates and related issues about gameplay such as the Fortify and defensive play topics mentioned by the OP.

 

First, we don’t know better than players. We have some experience making games and hopefully we’ve hired folks with some natural talent for game development, but at the end of the day players are going to decide if they play the game or not. To put it in a bland business sentiment, this product is for you. The biggest challenge here is that players rarely speak with one voice. It may seem to you that “everyone” wanted a champion changed in a certain way or even all the “X players” really liked a specific identity that we decided to change. It’s just rarely that cut and dried. (And man, this job would be so much easier if it were.)

 

Remember that only a small minority of players ever post on forums, or reach out to us on Reddit or Twitter, and also remember most of you are only viewing those conversations in one or two languages at most. What may seem like universal consensus is rarely anything close to that.

 

And that’s okay! We’re not trying to design a game based on community vote, and you probably wouldn’t be happy with the results anyway. We do very much value player feedback and we use it to make informed decisions. That’s the reason I cracked open this (long) thread this morning — to see what you guys thought.

 

To provide some context on champion updates specifically, here is the way I view player sentiment. Feel free to disagree.

 

Player response, again IMO, generally falls into one of these categories:

 

1) I am indifferent to this champion or her changes.

2) I play the champion because she is broken, so I’m not going to be happy once she is fixed.

3) I believe the champion needs to be updated, but I am excited about one particular direction, which is unlikely to be the one Riot chooses.

4) I believe the champion needs to be updated, and either Riot managed to pick the direction I liked, or I was happy just to see an update period.

 

Out of those four categories, you’re going to see a lot of communication from players in groups 2 and 3. Indifferent group 1 dudes are unlikely to post that they are still indifferent. Group 4 might post a little. As a result, it can feel like there is a lot of negative sentiment every time we make a change. We keep gathering data though, to make sure in the long term that the champ is getting more play and that players are enjoying playing her. To be fair, we sometimes miss the mark, or frequently a champion requires a few subsequent rounds of updates to really deliver on the promise of the update.

 

I’m not sure of a better way to operate other than considering player feedback in this way. I don’t think polls or votes would really be a strong way to design a game. I’m not sure how we could isolate the most hardcore or passionate players of a specific champion and redesign her with the aim of pleasing those dudes. We’re totally open to suggestions though. How would you determine the best way to update a champion? I’m not asking because we are without a process, but because some of you don’t seem happy with that process.

 

 

This is an interview and a clarification from Ghostcrawler over at Riot, who was one of the more respected community managers at Blizzard Entertainment during its prime. It might shed some light on the majority issue and why suggestions seem to be rarely taken into account for some.

 

 

 

And I had four friends return precisely after reading those changes. It just goes to show how everything is never cut and dry. You might not like the changes, but not everyone thinks that way.

 

Never did I say forums ppl are majority. Go branch out of your solo rpg mode and get to know ppl on your sever, engage in the community that aren't ok forums since it's less than 1% according to your lack of facts and evidence but then again.... Lol hypocrite.

 

After talking to many ppl and engaging in real conversation, you will see that 7-8/10 ppl hate a majority of changes. And that is based on my experience. Sorry I don't screenshot my chats for proof, but if you want the proof, don't be lazy and go talk to ppl.

[teclado]

Suggestion: until conquests get fixed, give out the Strategic Resource Matrix materials as rewards for pvp/operation/flashpoint dailies.

[Alssaran]

Never did I say forums ppl are majority. Go branch out of your solo rpg mode and get to know ppl on your sever, engage in the community that aren't ok forums since it's less than 1% according to your lack of facts and evidence but then again.... Lol hypocrite.

 

After talking to many ppl and engaging in real conversation, you will see that 7-8/10 ppl hate a majority of changes. And that is based on my experience. Sorry I don't screenshot my chats for proof, but if you want the proof, don't be lazy and go talk to ppl.

 

They continue to trudge on as if they see themselves as crusaders fighting only a minority that hate their changed though it's actually the majority.

 

Come again?

 

But otherwise this discussion is finished. Just the fact that you need to call other people "lazy" and "Duh! Sorry I don't screenshot all my conversations!" just to make a point shows how discussing with you is a futile thing. I will stick to my guild (which is one of the top ten biggest guilds on my server and usually wins conquest as 1st or 2nd), as that apparently makes me enjoy my solo RPG experience. You can keep the conversation up with your people. It seems everyone who says he has friends who actually like changes or are indifferent to these is a filthy liar these days...