Max_Killjoy Posted October 3, 2015 Share Posted October 3, 2015 (edited) Like I said, really looking for fault. We don't know how influence works and when certain triggers might be yet... just wait and see. Wait and see WHAT? WHAT exactly do you think we're going to see? Do you think we're going to see where we can opt out of the dressup dolls and still gear our companions for effect? Nothing about how influence works or anything else in the new companion setup is going to change that the real, actual, not "just looking for it" fault in 4.0 is that companion gear will be meaningless. Agreed, we will have to wait and see. What else do you suggest? And this isn't really the focus of the thread... not how the changes are implemented but the switch from companion gearing to individual companion influence levelling. That is a bad thing. Nothing we can learn about the new system will make it not a bad thing, because the bad part of it is right there in what we already know. There is literally nothing at all to wait and see. The loss of companion gearing is, in and of itself, the bad part of this. Edited October 3, 2015 by Max_Killjoy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
leehambly Posted October 3, 2015 Share Posted October 3, 2015 I know what it does now and I still have no control over it. It's not just about influence boosting stats. You have no control over customization as you once did. That was part of the fun in having companions. Influence is not currently in the game. So WTH are you talking about? Kinda taking a big leap of faith there you are. Did you see the gear on yavin 4 for companions. That was some really bad customization on companion gear. No reason to think BW is suddenly putting the best on them now. However, there is no choose going forward. There is no making sure your tank companion has a really high defense or shield or adsorb. You no longer have any control of any of that beyond what general cookie cutter BW decides to give you. You are losing the ability to customize your companion. That was interesting and entertaining as a side thing to do. BW auto-equipping with some adjustment based on influence. Not where near as interesting. Hell, it's like a Ronco product. Set it and forget it. You don't have to look for the fault in this system. It's right in our damn faces. You might be right and you might be wrong, but we wont be able to tell until its released, will we? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Icestar Posted October 3, 2015 Share Posted October 3, 2015 It feels good to not have to bother with companion stats, now we can dress up our companions as we like and change the looks when we want to. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
leehambly Posted October 3, 2015 Share Posted October 3, 2015 Wait and see WHAT? WHAT exactly do you think we're going to see? Do you think we're going to see where we can opt out of the dressup dolls and still gear our companions for effect? Nothing about how influence works or anything else in the new companion setup is going to change that the real, actual, not "just looking for it" fault in 4.0 is that companion gear will be meaningless. Wait to see how influence works and how it impacts things... like I said, trying to find fault... so desperate. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
leehambly Posted October 3, 2015 Share Posted October 3, 2015 Think there's a huge difference between Mako in Yavin 192's and in augmented 198's? You'd probably see bigger improvements if you started micromanaging their skill bar, and even then you don't exactly have that much room to work in. Agreed on this note... unless you undergear your companion: the biggest factor currently is your character's presence and management of the abilities. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Max_Killjoy Posted October 3, 2015 Share Posted October 3, 2015 Wait to see how influence works and how it impacts things... like I said, trying to find fault... so desperate. Why is it so bloody hard for you to understand that I DON'T CARE how influence works and how it impacts things. Companion gearing being gone is a bad change, as far as I'm concerned. Nothing about the replacement will alter or mitigate that. For me, the bad part of this is already known. What on earth do you think we're going to learn come late October that's going to change, mitigate, or offset the bad part of this? Unless we find out that companion gear will still matter come late October, there's nothing we can find out that's going to make this any better. And how the hell is it "looking for faults" when the part of this that makes it terrible for me is right there in front of me, the core part of the change, the part we already know the most about? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
leehambly Posted October 3, 2015 Share Posted October 3, 2015 Why is it so bloody hard for you to understand that I DON'T CARE how influence works and how it impacts things. Companion gearing being gone is a bad change, as far as I'm concerned. Nothing about the replacement will alter or mitigate that. For me, the bad part of this is already known. What on earth do you think we're going to learn come late October that's going to change, mitigate, or offset the bad part of this? Unless we find out that companion gear will still matter come late October, there's nothing we can find out that's going to make this any better. And how the hell is it "looking for faults" when the part of this that makes it terrible for me is right there in front of me, the core part of the change, the part we already know the most about? Because you are basing all of this on some weirdly or poorly balanced Yavin 192 gear. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Quraswren Posted October 3, 2015 Share Posted October 3, 2015 Influence is not currently in the game. So WTH are you talking about? Influence is affection just as they said. I understand how that mechanic works. It's a small boost and still doesn't allow customization of stats. Tweaking for companions. You might be right and you might be wrong, but we wont be able to tell until its released, will we? Not sure why I would need to play it to see what it does and doesn't do in comparison to what we had. If you don't like customizing your toons thats one thing. However, that was part of the game I enjoyed doing and it is Lost. I know I'm not the only one in that boat. No more customization of companions. Bring out any companion you want. There all the same. Unlike my when I actually built companions for specific roles and customized them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Max_Killjoy Posted October 3, 2015 Share Posted October 3, 2015 (edited) Because you are basing all of this on some weirdly or poorly balanced Yavin 192 gear. My only companions wearing Y-192 gear are a couple that I barely use, that I wanted to test some things out with. The Y-192 gear has a lot of problems. The companions I use on a regular basis are all custom-geared using 190 and 192 mods for the most part. Care to throw out a few more unfounded assumptions? Edited October 3, 2015 by Max_Killjoy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Max_Killjoy Posted October 3, 2015 Share Posted October 3, 2015 Add me to the list of people who's pissed about taking away companion unique abilities. I don't think anyone has ever complained about this, I don't even understand how someone could be tripped up by it. It's also one of the best intersections between story and gameplay. I like Lokin turning into a rakghoul, I like that Temple can use force blasts, I like that Tharan can drop Holiday into a fight, I like Nadia being an AOE wrecking machine, I like that Guss has a trap, I like that Bowdaar can throw people, I like that 4X has a towline instead of a leap, I like that HK-51 can actually assassinate people, I like that Scourge, Xalek, and DS Jaesa have lightning attacks. I love that Blizz has a rocket launcher. Why you would take all that awesome out in favor of for making things slightly easier for...who exactly? Casual Altholics? Is that even a thing? Very good point. Again, companions are just becoming cookie-cutter dressup-dolls, meaningless placeholders. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Uruare Posted October 3, 2015 Share Posted October 3, 2015 (edited) Agreed on this note... unless you undergear your companion: the biggest factor currently is your character's presence and management of the abilities. Bingo. It's been far, far more effective as a companion boost to ramp up presence wherever feasible, and with a bit of practice, managing key companion abilities via hotkeys can dramatically improve their usefulness, c especially with the healer and tank companions. For what's given to us to know so far, neither presence nor our ability to manage their abilities are being removed, sooo... The far and away strongest tools in the comp management box seen to be being left intact. Whether your companion is in fully Aug'd BiS or one tier down and not aug'd isn't going to be nearly as big a difference in any level except HP pool, where the most dramatic difference exists to be noticed at all. So, nope. I'm not going to miss this layer of tedium at all. I am, in fact, loving the idea that I'll be able to use the companions I want without having to be stuck with their static role deciding that for me if I want to actually roll how I prefer. Edited October 3, 2015 by Uruare Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Max_Killjoy Posted October 3, 2015 Share Posted October 3, 2015 Bingo. It's been far, far more effective as a companion boost to ramp up presence wherever feasible, and with a bit of practice, managing key companion abilities via hotkeys can dramatically improve their usefulness, c especially with the healer and tank companions. For what's given to us to know so far, neither presence nor our ability to manage their abilities are being removed, sooo... The far and away strongest tools in the comp management box seen to be being left intact. Whether your companion is in fully Aug'd BiS or one tier down and not aug'd isn't going to be nearly as big a difference in any level except HP pool, where the noise dramatic difference exists to be noticed at all. So, nope. I'm not going to miss this layer of tedium at all. I am, in fact, loving the idea that I'll be able to use the companions I want without having to be stuck with their static role deciding that for me if I want to actually roll how I prefer. They should have introduced a switch, then, right there on the character screen for the companion, that lets players who don't want to bother set their companions to "autostat". Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Uruare Posted October 3, 2015 Share Posted October 3, 2015 They should have introduced a switch, then, right there on the character screen for the companion, that lets players who don't want to bother set their companions to "autostat". Wouldn't bother me a bit if they did that. But that's way too elegant a solution to all sides of a problem for Bioware to just up and do on their own. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bakakiba Posted October 3, 2015 Share Posted October 3, 2015 Not bummed at all. And the opinion of those who have already said they are leaving are irrelevant (Hi Max!). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
leehambly Posted October 3, 2015 Share Posted October 3, 2015 Influence is affection just as they said. I understand how that mechanic works. It's a small boost and still doesn't allow customization of stats. Tweaking for companions. No, influence is replacing affection - it's not a simple rename, it's a change. No one knows how much of an impact it will have between influence level 1 and influence level 50 yet. Tweaking, sure I agree you wont be in control anymore... but then the game is changing in this respect anyway... secondary and tertiary stats are being re-distributed... so yes, maybe there is an argument to say I cannot choose to distribute absorption over shield rating... hardly something to lose any sleep about. As I see it, the tweaking will be levelling influence with individual companions over others. We don't know for sure if one type of companion is a better tank than another... we simply don't yet. We DO know that a melee dps companion will behave differently than a ranged dps companion and therefore be more appropriate in different situations and with different AC's, so we DO know that there are differences between them and they aren't just skins for dps/heal/tanking. MMO's are constantly in flux... yes, the old system is going, but there is a new system. That's it. If you want a static system, you need to play a static game. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
leehambly Posted October 3, 2015 Share Posted October 3, 2015 (edited) My only companions wearing Y-192 gear are a couple that I barely use, that I wanted to test some things out with. The Y-192 gear has a lot of problems. The companions I use on a regular basis are all custom-geared using 190 and 192 mods for the most part. Care to throw out a few more unfounded assumptions? I'm not making assumptions - my chars are all in full 198, see my first post... why would I assume yours aren't? I'm waiting to see what the change is and hoping to hell that influence and presence will provide the difference that I currently already focus on. I'll leave assumptions to the experts... seems to be lots of them on here all of a sudden. Edited October 3, 2015 by leehambly Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KyaniteD Posted October 3, 2015 Share Posted October 3, 2015 Agreed, we will have to wait and see. What else do you suggest? And this isn't really the focus of the thread... not how the changes are implemented but the switch from companion gearing to individual companion influence levelling. But I think it IS the focus of the thread. People don't trust the devs, and they have reasons not to. There's a track record that justifies the mistrust. They don't trust them to know what actually is optimized/min-maxed gear for every companion, and they don't trust the devs to even want players to have min-maxed companions. (Which is understandable to some degree, because the casual majority doesn't care, and for the casual majority min-maxed companions would be actually worse than the end-heavy companions that support a three-button, 20 apm rotation on the PC. But some players, as the OP points out, do care, and it's those who are "bummed", because above mentioned trust issues.) The point is that people don't care how it's implemented, because they lose the control. And if you don't think they will lose control, I'm interested in learning why you think they might not, what you think how influence could work to give players back control over their companion's stats. Do you think influence will give us an additional pool of stats points that we can distribute freely? (And either have to re-distribute with every role switch or decide on one role, after all and anyway, if we want min-maxing?) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Quraswren Posted October 3, 2015 Share Posted October 3, 2015 (edited) No, influence is replacing affection - it's not a simple rename, it's a change. SNIP . So what you're saying is you haven't been reading? "Influence in simple terms, is affection under a different name." That was from the August livestream. It's a simple rename. We lose customization. Influence will boost stats not let you customize stats. All companions that use the same weapon are not the same. It's an over simplified change that removed any and all customization players used to do for stats and now they get to changed their clothes. Edited October 3, 2015 by Quraswren Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
leehambly Posted October 3, 2015 Share Posted October 3, 2015 So what you're saying is you haven't been reading? "Influence in simple terms, is affection under a different name." That was from the August livestream. It's a simple rename. We lose customization. Influence will boost stats not let you customize stats. You didn't see the stream the other night? What's the influence level about? Or did you miss that? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JamieKirby Posted October 3, 2015 Share Posted October 3, 2015 nah, i have wanted the companions to perform based on their level and their influence for a while, why they didn't do this from they beginning is beyond me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Quraswren Posted October 3, 2015 Share Posted October 3, 2015 (edited) You didn't see the stream the other night? What's the influence level about? Or did you miss that? I did and no matter if influence tops at 10K or 250K you will never, ever decide to have your companion have more alacrity for faster heals or a companion with high crit or a tank with really high defense. Companion customization. Right out the door. Hell, just the idea that blizz will no longer have a rocket launcher. HK no longer having that one shot out of combat mechanic. That sucks a bit to be honest. I feel bad for people that paid money to get access to that. Edited October 3, 2015 by Quraswren Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
leehambly Posted October 3, 2015 Share Posted October 3, 2015 (edited) But I think it IS the focus of the thread. People don't trust the devs, and they have reasons not to. There's a track record that justifies the mistrust. They don't trust them to know what actually is optimized/min-maxed gear for every companion, and they don't trust the devs to even want players to have min-maxed companions. (Which is understandable to some degree, because the casual majority doesn't care, and for the casual majority min-maxed companions would be actually worse than the end-heavy companions that support a three-button, 20 apm rotation on the PC. But some players, as the OP points out, do care, and it's those who are "bummed", because above mentioned trust issues.) The point is that people don't care how it's implemented, because they lose the control. And if you don't think they will lose control, I'm interested in learning why you think they might not, what you think how influence could work to give players back control over their companion's stats. Do you think influence will give us an additional pool of stats points that we can distribute freely? (And either have to re-distribute with every role switch or decide on one role, after all and anyway, if we want min-maxing?) No, trust issues over the development aren't the focus - go and have a look, that's been introduced by the same old qq'ers... the change to comp stats due to influence over gearing is what the OP discussed. And hey.. if they do screw it up... at least a change can now be put into a patch without having to rebalance all of your gear individually! Edited October 3, 2015 by leehambly Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
leehambly Posted October 3, 2015 Share Posted October 3, 2015 (edited) I did and no matter if influence tops at 10K or 250K you will never, ever decide to have your companion have more alacrity for faster heals or a companion with high crit or a tank with really high defense. Companion customization. Right out the door. Hell, just the idea that blizz will no longer have a rocket launcher. HK no longer having that one shot out of combat mechanic. That sucks a bit to be honest. I feel bad for people that paid money to get access to that. 10k or 250k? From what I saw: it's influence levels - much like character level. You might have been present but did you watch it? Probably too desperate to find fault and predict the future to actually pay attention. Edited October 3, 2015 by leehambly Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Talosred Posted October 3, 2015 Share Posted October 3, 2015 I'm not can slap on whatever I please now for them to wear, no more suffering from the vapors wen trying to decide. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bakakiba Posted October 3, 2015 Share Posted October 3, 2015 This little thing you keep repeating right here, this juvenile little canard that's your fallback whenever you don't actually have any counterpoint to offer? It makes your posts completely unworth the time it takes to read them. Goodbye, and enjoy the list. Welcome to the club, lee! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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