Archonitek Posted October 2, 2015 Share Posted October 2, 2015 After reading the posts in "Premade/Groups ruining GSF' thread (HA!) there were a few posts about the efficiency of a ship after acquiring a certain amount of upgrades. This got me to thinking about how weapon components are defined by certain tiers in their upgrade tree and how many of them are locked in the t4 - t5 bracket that will cost a new pilot 18500 - 23500 req to unlock. Would shifting these key components down to a cheaper tier (2.5k or 5k bracket) make it easier for new pilots to perform? For example, Heavy lasers become much more useful when when the T4 (Ignore Armour) option is acquired at 18500 requisition. If we switch this option with the T3 (Increase hull damage by 8%) or even T2 (Increase range by 5%) so it is acquired at 3500 or 8500 req respectively, hopefully this makes new pilots much better at punching through charged plating and turret killing. I've added a list of components that I think should be tweaked so that their potential is reached earlier than currently available. Lasers Heavy Lasers Switch T4 (Ignore Armour/Improved Tracking and Critical Chance) with T2 (Increased Range). Rapid-fire Lasers Cannon/Light Laser Cannon/Light Laser Cannon Take T4 (Increased Critical Chance/Improved Firing Arc and Tracking) and insert between T1 (Increased Damage) and T2 (Reduced Power Cost). Burst Laser Cannon Switch T4 (Ignore Armour/Shield Piercing) with T3 (Improved Firing Arc and Tracking). Quad Laser Cannon Swtich T4 (Increased Critical Chance/Reduced Power Cost) and T2 (Increased Range) Missiles Proton Torpedoes Take T4 (Increased Projectile Speed/Increased Firing Arc) and stick it between T1 (Reduced Lock On Time) and T2 (Increased Critical Chance). Thermite Torpedo Take T5 (Increased Duration/Plasma Warheads) and insert it between T2 (Increased Ammo Capacity) and T3 (Damage Increase) Emp Missile Take T5 (Engine Suppression/Shield Suppression) and insert it between T2 (Increased Radius) and T3 (Increased Damage) Concussion Missiles Switch T5 (Engine Targeting/Ignore Armour) with T3 (Increased Damage) Cluster Missiles Switch T5 (Double Volley/Plasma Warheads) with T3 (Increased Damage) Rail Guns Ion Rail Gun Switch T4 (Increased Critical Damage Chance/Hits do Area Damage) with T2 (Reduced Charge Time) Slug Rail Gun Switch T3 (Ignore Armour) with T2 (Shield Piercing) Plasma Rail Gun Switch T4 (Melt Armour/Melt Thrusters) with T3 (Reduced Power Draw) Systems Targeting Telemetry Switch T5 (Precision Targeting/Extended Targeting) with T2 (Increased Radius) <- why is this even here still? Tensor Field Switch T5 (Increased Speed/Engine Power Restoration) with T1 (Reduced Cooldown) Mines Seeker Mines Switch T5 (HIgh Explosives/Additional Active Mine) with T2 (Increased Life Span) Seismic Mines Switch T5 (Critical Chance/Hull Resonance) with T2 (Increased Life Span) Interdiction/Concussion/Ion Mines Switch T4 (Additional Active Mine/Increased Radius) with T2 (Increased Life Span) Missile/Interdiction/Railgun Sentry Drone Switch T4 (All options increase effectiveness of drone's main component) with T2 (Increased Lifespan) Some I feel a quite obvious, others are just ones I thought might be more helpful. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lavaar Posted October 2, 2015 Share Posted October 2, 2015 I have thought about this before as well, thanks for doing the legwork and writing it down. The armor pen on the slug railgun is really a big step up in its functionality, and actually allows you to finally defeat your arch-nemesis, the dreaded satellite defense turret. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
btbarrett Posted October 2, 2015 Share Posted October 2, 2015 This is an interesting idea. I have always kind of thought that the size of the upgrade should commensurate with the cost of the upgrade (i.e., the good upgrades should be expensive), but I can see how your suggestion would level the playing field a little faster. Really, what I think they should do is double req gains from matches like they did for ground PvP. Hell, make it a subscriber perk if you want. But it currently takes too damned long to max out a ship. It has taken me ~125-150 matches in my Flashfire on Harbinger to max it out (granted I haven't popped req grants). That is a ridiculous number of matches for the average player. For someone who plays ~10 matches a week we are talking MONTHS to max out a single ship. Constant double req and quad req daily bonus req would go a long ways towards shortening that grind. Furthermore, it would let people feel like they were making real progress from match to match. It is probably disheartening to a lot of people to go through 2-3 matches and still not have enough req to get a single component. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gavin_Kelvar Posted October 2, 2015 Share Posted October 2, 2015 (edited) Heavy Lasers Switch T4 (Ignore Armour/Improved Tracking and Critical Chance) with T2 (Increased Range). I think making the armor pierce a mandatory thing would be good since there's really no point in taking HLC if you're not going to use the AP. Switching the AP T4 upgrade with increased range would be good since it would open the crit/tracking penalty option as a viable choice. Burst Laser Cannon Switch T4 (Ignore Armour/Shield Piercing) with T3 (Improved Firing Arc and Tracking). To be honest I think the AP should stay where it is. GS don't need the AP since they have slugs and I don't think T2 scouts actually need (or should) be as good against DR targets as they currently are (this opinion mind you assumes the supposed strike buff makes them viable in the meta, and makes their heavy ordinance threatening bomber killers). Since BLC generally seems like it needs to be tuned down as it's the best CQC weapon I'd do the following: T3 option bumped to T4 (so you choose between AP and tracking). All T5 options switched to T2 & T3. T4 shield pierce bumped to T5, T2 crit bumped to T5. You'd then have BLC where T1-T3 would have a number of upgrades that buff it's direct damage but the T4/T5 levels would present pilots with choosing among the best BLC upgrades rather than being able to get them all in a package deal (since really the important upgrades are tracking, crit, and AP; 2 of them are mandatory and 1 is the best choice because the other T4 option isn't nearly as good). Overall it'd allow you to build BLC that could do some of the things it currently does but not everything (so for example taking AP would mean it'd be slightly less good in dogfight deflection shots). Edited October 2, 2015 by Gavin_Kelvar Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Archonitek Posted October 4, 2015 Author Share Posted October 4, 2015 (edited) T3 option bumped to T4 (so you choose between AP and tracking). All T5 options switched to T2 & T3. T4 shield pierce bumped to T5, T2 crit bumped to T5. You'd then have BLC where T1-T3 would have a number of upgrades that buff it's direct damage but the T4/T5 levels would present pilots with choosing among the best BLC upgrades rather than being able to get them all in a package deal (since really the important upgrades are tracking, crit, and AP; 2 of them are mandatory and 1 is the best choice because the other T4 option isn't nearly as good). Overall it'd allow you to build BLC that could do some of the things it currently does but not everything (so for example taking AP would mean it'd be slightly less good in dogfight deflection shots). That probably would be a better way to go about it. I guess with mine it was more about small (hopefully) easy to make changes rather than completely redoing the entire tree. Cos that would be a whole different thread lol Edited October 4, 2015 by Archonitek Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gavin_Kelvar Posted October 4, 2015 Share Posted October 4, 2015 (edited) That probably would be a better way to go about it. I guess with mine it was more about small (hopefully) easy to make changes rather than completely redoing the entire tree. Cos that would be a whole different thread lol Ah I misunderstood your intentions then I guess. It sounded like you'd be swapping to make AP mandatory, which IMO, would be a fairly big buff to BLC which I don't think it needs. Proton Torpedoes Take T4 (Increased Projectile Speed/Increased Firing Arc) and stick it between T1 (Reduced Lock On Time) and T2 (Increased Critical Chance). Similar to my below comment with thermites I'd switch the T4 firing arc with the T3 increased damage. I think the crit is too good to really pass up and also makes ptorps unique to thermites. The damage buff though you could more safely pass up if you wanted to build with greater ability to hit non-bombers. Thermite Torpedo Take T5 (Increased Duration/Plasma Warheads) and insert it between T2 (Increased Ammo Capacity) and T3 (Damage Increase) I think the best thing to do here actually would be switching the T4 firing arc and T2 ammo capacity. Firing arc for torpedoes is essential to their function (not the least of which is due to ninja lock losses). The ammo and travel speed would both be good T4 choices depending on your build/intended use. Targeting Telemetry Switch T5 (Precision Targeting/Extended Targeting) with T2 (Increased Radius) <- why is this even here still? I don't disagree that TT could use some tweaking but I'm not really sure moving the T2 option into the T4/T5 levels is good since it would effectively never get used. You'd really just achieve making scouts have even better burst by basically allowing both T5 options to be used. I'm not sure giving scouts even more burst power is good for the meta. Edited October 4, 2015 by Gavin_Kelvar Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Archonitek Posted October 4, 2015 Author Share Posted October 4, 2015 I don't disagree that TT could use some tweaking but I'm not really sure moving the T2 option into the T4/T5 levels is good since it would effectively never get used. You'd really just achieve making scouts have even better burst by basically allowing both T5 options to be used. I'm not sure giving scouts even more burst power is good for the meta. Oh, by this one I mean that both choices are moved aswell. So instead of going T1, T2, T3, T4 a or b, T5 a or b. It will be T1, T2 a or b, T3, T4 a or b, T5. So you still are limited to either chosing the existing a or b option, but instead you now get to pick them sooner. At the end the master'd ship still has the same power output as it currently does, but rookie pilots will be able to hit those key performance jumps without spending so much time saving up req. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Danalon Posted October 4, 2015 Share Posted October 4, 2015 (edited) In most games the strongest upgrades are unlocked later and/or are more expensive to get a better feeling for progressing through the game. In RPGs a higher level talent should feel significantly stronger than a lower level talent to reflect the power of a character. In RTS the powerful units and buildings are unlocked last so every game has different phases it goes through. In GSF it could work well to do the reverse. Put better upgrades in lower tiers for cheap requisition to make it easier to join the game and put worse upgrades back for veteran pilots to minmax. The closest thing GSF has to that are the minor components, where you get around 40% of its later total value for just equipping the basic version. For some components this probably needs to come with other changes to their upgrades to make choices at the end better. I'm only switching around upgrades in my examples because I just woke up and am to lazy to think of bigger changes now. I also use the current name of the upgrades. Example Burst Laser Cannon: T1: Ignore Armor T2: Improved Targeting T3: Improved Firing Arc and Tracking T4: Increased Hull Damage -or- Increased Shield damage T5: Increased Damage -or- Shield Piercing Example Ion Railgun: T1: Hits do Area Damage T2: Reduced Charge Time T3: Increased Accuracy and Tracking T4: Engine Disruption -or- Reactor Disruption T5: Increased Critical Damage -or- Power Drain Personally I'd like to have Reactor Disruption in a lower tier but then Engine Disruption would have to be removed or the weapon would have both bonuses. Ion Rail's utility nature makes it a bit more difficult to rearrange the current upgrades without making overpowered builds possible. In both examples the T1 upgrade is the imho defining upgrade for each weapon. This could help newer pilots to see what the weapon is meant for and also they'd be able to change the weapon and upgrade it to T1 for just 3k requisition. If additionaly the default components were set to their BiS parts then a new player might only have to pay a few thousand requisition to get a competetive ship. This might be hurting ship diversity but as long as there isn't a huge balance patch to bring all components closer to each other there isn't any real diversity anyway. Edit: Just read something about HLC above and wanted to add how I'd change the arrangement of upgrades. Example Heavy Laser Cannon: T1: Ignore Armor T2: Improved Tracking and Critical Chance T3: Increased Damage T4: Shield Piercing -or- Increased Shield Damage T5: Increased Hull Damage -or- Increased Range Edited October 4, 2015 by Danalon Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Linuxizer Posted October 4, 2015 Share Posted October 4, 2015 Instead of moving the armor piercing upgrade around on the Burst Laser and Heavy Laser, I would just give all lasers 20% armor piercing before any upgrades. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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