Pyrotech PvP

[Quarast]

Hi

So I'm new to this whole pt thing and I was goofing off with pyro a bit. So my question is, if in regs I play with at least a healer, what utilities, stats, and rotations will provide the best damage? I'm aware that AP is much better, I would like to just learn pyro. There is no pvp guide for pyro that I can find, that info would be super helpful.

[Aetideus]

Hi

So I'm new to this whole pt thing and I was goofing off with pyro a bit. So my question is, if in regs I play with at least a healer, what utilities, stats, and rotations will provide the best damage? I'm aware that AP is much better, I would like to just learn pyro. There is no pvp guide for pyro that I can find, that info would be super helpful.

 

Stay at the 10 - 15 zone. Pyro in many situations is more squishy than AP. Get closer when it is most safe.

Put dots on the team and hit the strongest target/ tank. Healer is not the best target for Pyro unless using AoE including the guard.

Edited September 19, 2015 by Aetideus

[HaoZhao]

Stay at the 10 - 15 zone

 

No. This is wrong. You need to get closer as a pyrotech in order to effectively DOT spread. If you're not going to DOT spread, there's absolutely no reason to take pyro into PVP over advanced prototype. If you're not good at DOT spreading, then pyrotech is just dead weight on a team. This is especially true in arenas where your poor damage output can basically get your entire team rolled up in seconds. If you're going to play pyro at all, you need to start putting what little pressure you can onto the enemy team ASAP.

 

There's a reason why 95% of PTs in warzones play AP spec.

Edited September 19, 2015 by HaoZhao

[Aetideus]

No. This is wrong. You need to get closer as a pyrotech in order to effectively DOT spread. If you're not going to DOT spread, there's absolutely no reason to take pyro into PVP over advanced prototype. If you're not good at DOT spreading, then pyrotech is just dead weight on a team. This is especially true in arenas where your poor damage output can basically get your entire team rolled up in seconds. If you're going to play pyro at all, you need to start putting what little pressure you can onto the enemy team ASAP.

 

There's a reason why 95% of PTs in warzones play AP spec.

 

Incendiary missile is 30m, Flame burst 15m, Flame sweep 7m, Flame thrower 10m, Combustible 30m, Scorch 10m.

Those are the elemental attacks (that have +3% crit) spreading dots. Most of the time a beginner should stay at 10 -15m. AP has no procs. No other spec has no procs btw.

Edited September 20, 2015 by Aetideus

[HaoZhao]

Incendiary missile is 30m, Flame burst 15m, Flame sweep 7m, Flame thrower 10m, Combustible 30m, Scorch 10m.

Those are the elemental attacks (that have +3% crit) spreading dots. Most of the time a beginner should stay at 10 -15m. AP has no procs. No other spec has no procs btw.

 

If there's exactly 10 metres between you and your target(s), and he/she/they take a single step backward, they're out of range and you miss all of the remaining ticks of flamethrower. Furthermore, without moving into melee range, not only do you lose the damage from flaming fist, but you also lose the autocrit on rail shot. It's a massive DPS loss.

 

Like I said, at this point, you're dead weight. It's okay to kite around once your main abilities are on cooldown, but it's very important to get in close for the first few attacks. Also worth keeping in mind is that 10 metres is the range of most stuns. If your opponents want to focus you down, they will. They'll stun you and then beat you to death. Denying yourself what little burst you have by giving up your autocrit rail shot will not pay off. If you're too timid to get in close as pyrotech, you're really just better off playing an IO merc, IMO. No offense intended.

Edited September 21, 2015 by HaoZhao

[Arehonn]

From what I've seen, Plasmatech/Pyro is getting some nerfs in 4.0 which is an atrocious decision on the part of the design team.

[Jake_Chambers]

Hi

So I'm new to this whole pt thing and I was goofing off with pyro a bit. So my question is, if in regs I play with at least a healer, what utilities, stats, and rotations will provide the best damage? I'm aware that AP is much better, I would like to just learn pyro. There is no pvp guide for pyro that I can find, that info would be super helpful.

 

Listen bro, I'll pocket heal for you to the extreme. I'll ignore all objectives, I wont heal a single other person or bubble them. You'll be top dps no matter what since i won't allow you to die. I'll end you my resume in game.

 

RIDE OR DIE!

[Quarast]

Listen bro, I'll pocket heal for you to the extreme. I'll ignore all objectives, I wont heal a single other person or bubble them. You'll be top dps no matter what since i won't allow you to die. I'll end you my resume in game.

 

RIDE OR DIE!

 

Yay! Tho I can't seem to find you in game recently O.o playing league?

[Aetideus]

If there's exactly 10 metres between you and your target(s), and he/she/they take a single step backward, they're out of range and you miss all of the remaining ticks of flamethrower. Furthermore, without moving into melee range, not only do you lose the damage from flaming fist, but you also lose the autocrit on rail shot. It's a massive DPS loss.

 

Like I said, at this point, you're dead weight. It's okay to kite around once your main abilities are on cooldown, but it's very important to get in close for the first few attacks. Also worth keeping in mind is that 10 metres is the range of most stuns. If your opponents want to focus you down, they will. They'll stun you and then beat you to death. Denying yourself what little burst you have by giving up your autocrit rail shot will not pay off. If you're too timid to get in close as pyrotech, you're really just better off playing an IO merc, IMO. No offense intended.

 

None taken. The main mistake new players do with Pyro is going at 4m and stay there. What was suggested, was to stay 10 - 15 and try closer when safer e.g. HoL, stuns.

One of the biggest BW mistakes on 3.0 Pyro is the assignment of 30% DR on area/stuns to AP. Using Flamethrower for 3s is sitting duck.

Edited September 23, 2015 by Aetideus

[realleaftea]

One of the biggest BW mistakes on 3.0 Pyro is the assignment of 30% DR on area/stuns to AP. Using Flamethrower for 3s is sitting duck.

That's a flavour reason! The Plasma/Pyro gets 15% DR vs. periodic effects, which fits logically. The same way, Pyros are adrenaline-driven or overload their Kolto packs, whereas the Tacticians // APs recharge their Reactive/Energy Shields.

 

In addition, Ion Cannon // Flamethrower deals that much damage because of the drawback. And with Pulse Generator // Superheated FT, you impose an additional speed malus and become immune to interrupts. So BioWare actually softened the downsides to lower the 'sitting duck' part.

 

The only thing that I would have considered is to replace the additional damage bonus with a 20~30% faster channelling.

 

Edit:

Oh and if you prefer more costly flavour changes: I would switch Ion Cannon / Flamethrower with Expl. Surge / Flame Sweep. I.e.

 

Explosive Surge / Flame Sweep:

3.0s channel; high damage: 18s cooldown; but still the 7m full circle AoE

slow & uninterruptable via Superheat; potentially spreads DoTs

 

Ion Cannon // Flamethrower:

instant cast; but low damage; still a cone AoE, but with 0s cooldown

automatically triggers Plasma Cell // Combustible Gas Cylinder for Pyros

restricted to Vanguard / Power Tech

 

That way, players could choose more freely between a 10~15m Ion Pulse // Flame Burst or the new instantaneous cone effect, depending on whether they would hit one or more targets. And the 3.0s channel for Flame Sweep would allow for a more gorgeous & enjoyable animation (I would replace the Expl. Surge 'fart'-like animation with a static 3.0s Lightning Field / Overcharge around the player).

 

With such a change, you could then add passive skills that grant a defensive buff for the skill duration. In case of the pyro, because he is lifted in the air, and in the other case because the llghtnings surrounding the player makes them harder to hit.

Edited September 24, 2015 by realleaftea

[Aetideus]

That's a flavour reason! The Plasma/Pyro gets 15% DR vs. periodic effects, which fits logically. The same way, Pyros are adrenaline-driven or overload their Kolto packs, whereas the Tacticians // APs recharge their Reactive/Energy Shields.

 

In addition, Ion Cannon // Flamethrower deals that much damage because of the drawback. And with Pulse Generator // Superheated FT, you impose an additional speed malus and become immune to interrupts. So BioWare actually softened the downsides to lower the 'sitting duck' part.

 

The only thing that I would have considered is to replace the additional damage bonus with a 20~30% faster channelling.

 

Edit:

Oh and if you prefer more costly flavour changes: I would switch Ion Cannon / Flamethrower with Expl. Surge / Flame Sweep. I.e.

 

Explosive Surge / Flame Sweep:

3.0s channel; high damage: 18s cooldown; but still the 7m full circle AoE

slow & uninterruptable via Superheat; potentially spreads DoTs

 

Ion Cannon // Flamethrower:

instant cast; but low damage; still a cone AoE, but with 0s cooldown

automatically triggers Plasma Cell // Combustible Gas Cylinder for Pyros

restricted to Vanguard / Power Tech

 

That way, players could choose more freely between a 10~15m Ion Pulse // Flame Burst or the new instantaneous cone effect, depending on whether they would hit one or more targets. And the 3.0s channel for Flame Sweep would allow for a more gorgeous & enjoyable animation (I would replace the Expl. Surge 'fart'-like animation with a static 3.0s Lightning Field / Overcharge around the player).

 

With such a change, you could then add passive skills that grant a defensive buff for the skill duration. In case of the pyro, because he is lifted in the air, and in the other case because the llghtnings surrounding the player makes them harder to hit.

 

Twice the speed on flamethrower is good solution imo. I had proposed that when 3.0 was released.

I would not like to chose between those 2 util choices though.

Preferably, make 30% DR on area/stun materfull util - bound to offensive cylinders - and reduce flame thrower channeling by 30%.

Edited September 27, 2015 by Aetideus

[realleaftea]

Just to make it absolutely clear:

At best, my suggestions replace bonuses or effects. They don't add anything. I.e.

 

Superheated Flamethrower: No damage boost anymore, but instead a faster channeling.

 

That way, you lose damage output, but gain a bit more mobility and a slightly different skill rotation. If you use the extra time wisely, your DPS should stay quite the same.

 

The second idea - replacing Flame Sweep with Flamethrower:

This wouldn't make the Pyro any stronger, probably the opposite. It's more a visual thing. Whereas you can now spam your Flame Sweep to hit anything around you while still moving around,you would have to use your Flamethower and to turn around to face your target instead.

 

I still like the idea though, because I'd love to play a Pyro that can stay at 8~15m range 99% of the time. Making the cone AoE usable on the move, would just feel better, especially when strafing or moving backwards. Makes imo more sense than using a Flame Sweep or simply 'exploding' (explosive surge) every 1.5sec.

 

The defensive bonuses I suggested are then just a way to make the self-centered AoE more competetive // comparable to those with a 30m range (Death from Above; Sweeping Blasters). Mercs could then decide whether they need extra defense or the extra range.

 

Preferably, make 30% DR on area/stun materfull util - bound to offensive cylinders - and reduce flame thrower channeling 30%.

Well technically, the Pyro is still a high-mobility class. I.e. not centered around skills with activation time or channelling. So he can simply move out of any AoE zone. Thanks to Hydraulic Override + Torque Boosters, he's also rarely slowed or rooted in place.

 

The stun part is slightly more difficult.

Sure, in some cases, it's used to keep opponents at a certain distance (f.e. 4m), but in by far the most cases, incapacitating effects are used to either close the gap or to increase it. And due to a fact that that any number of alles can use it as a gap closer (against the affected enemy), the classes which interruptable skills and/or without speed alterating utilities are the most vulnerable ones. PTs could 'simply' use Flame Sweep + Entangling Heat, as well as HO on Overdrive, to get to a safe distance. That's IMO the reason why all the Mercs get it as a heroic utility.

 

But of course it's not the answer, why the Assault Specialists got is as well.

 

All in all, I'd rather remove it, lower the bonuses while stunned (increasing the benefits of Gyroscopic Alignment Jets instead) or moving only the AoE part to Assault Frame, than to make it a utility for all PT.

Edited September 24, 2015 by realleaftea

[Aetideus]

Just to make it absolutely clear:

All in all, I'd rather remove it, lower the bonuses while stunned (increasing the benefits of Gyroscopic Alignment Jets instead) or moving only the AoE part to Assault Frame, than to make it a utility for all PT.

 

4.0 increased cd of HO makes even more difficult for Pyro to stay <10m. 45s cd with util 35s. Active time 10s. 25s inactive. Without Area/Stun debuf Pyro is in disadvantage. Storm baseline is not much of a help. The spec is not bursty.

New util +15% crit on immolate is not adding much if stunned and knocked (dead). Possibly at 4.0 there would be increased survivability issues and the +15% movement util should be picked up.

Edited October 4, 2015 by Aetideus

[Aetideus]

Curious about 4.0 +Crit on Rail Shot autocrit. Edited October 18, 2015 by Aetideus

[Kaos_KidSWTOR]

Curious about 4.0 +Crit on Rail Shot autocrit.

 

Edit: I feel stupid this is the PT forums. Nothing should happen to Rail Shot's auto Crit.

Edited October 18, 2015 by Kaos_KidSWTOR

[realleaftea]

4.0 increased cd of HO makes even more difficult for Pyro to stay <10m. 45s cd with util 35s. Active time 10s. 25s inactive. Without Area/Stun debuf Pyro is in disadvantage. Storm baseline is not much of a help. The spec is not bursty.

New util +15% crit on immolate is not adding much if stunned and knocked (dead). Possibly at 4.0 there would be increased survivability issues and the +15% movement util should be picked up.

I like the changes. As I've said in a different thread, the cooldown increase makes HO/HtL similar to the speed boosts of other classes. The Jet Charge // Storm ability offers many new options and can be even used defensively, if there's at least another enemy within range. So it helps Pyrotechs to get to the preferred range, to use their full AoE+DoT power against distant targets and the immobilize effect helps against melee classes.

 

But the new utilities add by far more mobility & power:

 

Tier 3 - Heroic

 

• Jet Speed/Blitz: Activating Jet Charge/Storm grants Jet Speed/Blitz, increasing movement speed by 30% for 4 seconds. The duration of Jet Speed/Blitz is refreshed if attacked while it is active.
  

 

This can be really, really powerful, due to the duration reset. The speed bonus is similar to the one you get from HO/HtL, lowering the impact of the cooldown increase. Combined with the 30% slow from Suppressive Tools // Entangling Tools, it can create a nice speed advantage.

 

Tier 2 - Masterful

 

• Explored Area/Surveyed Terrain: Stealth Scan increases the movement speed of all allies within the scan area, excluding yourself, by 50% for as long as they remain within it and for 6 seconds after it expires or they leave the area.
  

 

Another optional speed bonus to negate the impact of the HO/HtL cooldown increase. Even if you're the only target, it's a whooping 50% speed bonus for 6sec or more. It might be even better than Torgue Boosters // Advance the Line (although more inconvenient).

 

Tier 1 - Skillful

 

• Neural Delay: Neural Dart slows the target by 30% for 6 seconds (allowing for a 30 meter range utility that slows the target, should the player choose to take it).
  
• Iron Will now reduces the cooldown of Hydraulic Overrides/Hold the Line by 10 seconds (up from 5 seconds), due in part to the increase of the base cooldown of Hydraulic Overrides/Hold the Line.
  

 

Neural Delay doesn't sound bad, but I think it's more suitable for other subtypes.

 

All in all, Powertechs // Vanguards get new mobility utilities on each tier. We'll see which one will actually be used, but they offer interesting new choices.

[Saprezzan]

Pyrotech needs some love in PvP.

 

Here are proposals (posted in an earlier topic):

 

1. Advanced Prototype has much better survivability - namely Stabilized Armor and Energy Rebounder. Especially the former is huge with 30% decreased damage while stunned (which in PvP, is pretty damn often). While Pyrotech gets piddly 15% decrease in DoT damage (Flame Suit) received and a 30% damage reduction effect plastered onto Kolto Overload (Automated Defenses).

 

Pyrotech used to have 30% decreased damage while stunned, which was one of its high points.

 

I see no reason why Pyrotech should have inferior defenses than Advanced Prototype, especially if we're expected to get stuck in with the flamethrower quite often.

 

Proposed Solution: Give Pyrotech Stabilized Armor and Flame Suit to the AP or redesign Flame Suit.

 

2. Superheated Flamethrower lacks proper punch - for an ability that's fairly difficult to land in a PvP environment it really doesn't deal that much damage. Most reliable way to land is to use our AoE stun. But when you do (or when the enemies graciously bunch up) land it, it really doesn't seem to affect the fights that much - I've rarely seen anyone react to it.

 

Proposed Solution: Let it stack 3 times or increase the snare to 75%. That way even if it doesn't deal that much damage, it'll set up the kills for the rest of the team. I'm partial to more debuff effects actually, like Flame Barrage's Overwhelmed mechanic. That'd give the Pyrotechs a more clear role too.

 

3. Scorch - deserves its own paragraph. It might be decent in PvE, but it's positively awful in PvP, 30 seconds is simply way to long to do any good in such environment.

 

Proposed Solution: Decrease the duration to 15-20 seconds. Won't affect PvE too much, but it'll be a huge difference in PvP. Though truth to be told, something like Operative's Volatile Substance would fit a lot better.

 

4. Closing thoughts - Pyrotech, at least for me, lacks a clear vision. We've got good AoE, decent DoTs and single target damage, which makes it rather muddled. I think that the class needs its own niche, as Lethality/Ruffian already fills the DoT role. What I think could be interesting is a more prominent debuffer role - give the Pyrotech tools that help the team overcome their enemies (be it in PvE or PvP).

 

What could it be? The possibilities are endless: healing debuffs, marking targets so that the team would deal increased damage to them (already partially in the game, but it does sound very bounty hunter-ish, doesn't it?), debuffing target primary stats, debuffing targets' defenses, more roots etc.

 

---

[Zunayson]

Scorch is pretty *********** awesome. It actually deals really good DPS compared to most dots I know of (I don't play inquisitor dot specs). I'm accustomed to lethality, whose dots are pitiful to say the least. The spread is pretty gimmicky, but if you constantly murder people, and people are stacked, it's pretty easy free damage.

 

PFT is like a 90% snare unless that was changed recently in 4.0? The problem isn't the snare, it's the damage; for whatever reason, the TANK SPEC'S cleave does more damage than a fully buffed DPS flame thrower? I guess BW sort of liked the AP/tank hybrid that dominated arena meta in 2.4, and so gave tankspec a ridiculous replacement for flamethrower.

 

I still miss instagibbing groups with cleave, it really wasn't overpowered considering how difficult AoE is to pull off in mobility-dominated metas. 4.0 only increased mobility and teleporting to nauseous amounts.

[KainrycKarr]

I highly recommend pairing the jetspeed and automated suit utilites for Pyro (second stun break). Combined with Kolto being fixed so its an effective 30 second CD when in constant combat, it's actually way better than 30% DR while stunned imo.

 

As for the damage, it's actually not bad at all. I got a 21k yesterday on immolate. No, that's an obvious anomaly, but on the regular i get 10-15k on most of my abilities plus the dot/cleave.

 

The only damage change I'd make is to buff Proto flamer a bit. The cleave is a bit weak compared with the effort of pulling it off.

[KainrycKarr]

Pyrotech needs some love in PvP.

 

Here are proposals (posted in an earlier topic):

 

1. Advanced Prototype has much better survivability - namely Stabilized Armor and Energy Rebounder. Especially the former is huge with 30% decreased damage while stunned (which in PvP, is pretty damn often). While Pyrotech gets piddly 15% decrease in DoT damage (Flame Suit) received and a 30% damage reduction effect plastered onto Kolto Overload (Automated Defenses).

 

Pyrotech used to have 30% decreased damage while stunned, which was one of its high points.

 

I see no reason why Pyrotech should have inferior defenses than Advanced Prototype, especially if we're expected to get stuck in with the flamethrower quite often.

 

Proposed Solution: Give Pyrotech Stabilized Armor and Flame Suit to the AP or redesign Flame Suit.

 

2. Superheated Flamethrower lacks proper punch - for an ability that's fairly difficult to land in a PvP environment it really doesn't deal that much damage. Most reliable way to land is to use our AoE stun. But when you do (or when the enemies graciously bunch up) land it, it really doesn't seem to affect the fights that much - I've rarely seen anyone react to it.

 

Proposed Solution: Let it stack 3 times or increase the snare to 75%. That way even if it doesn't deal that much damage, it'll set up the kills for the rest of the team. I'm partial to more debuff effects actually, like Flame Barrage's Overwhelmed mechanic. That'd give the Pyrotechs a more clear role too.

 

3. Scorch - deserves its own paragraph. It might be decent in PvE, but it's positively awful in PvP, 30 seconds is simply way to long to do any good in such environment.

 

Proposed Solution: Decrease the duration to 15-20 seconds. Won't affect PvE too much, but it'll be a huge difference in PvP. Though truth to be told, something like Operative's Volatile Substance would fit a lot better.

 

4. Closing thoughts - Pyrotech, at least for me, lacks a clear vision. We've got good AoE, decent DoTs and single target damage, which makes it rather muddled. I think that the class needs its own niche, as Lethality/Ruffian already fills the DoT role. What I think could be interesting is a more prominent debuffer role - give the Pyrotech tools that help the team overcome their enemies (be it in PvE or PvP).

 

What could it be? The possibilities are endless: healing debuffs, marking targets so that the team would deal increased damage to them (already partially in the game, but it does sound very bounty hunter-ish, doesn't it?), debuffing target primary stats, debuffing targets' defenses, more roots etc.

 

---

 

Absolutely not, both 30% DR when stunned and the kolto, which is now effectively a 30 second CD in constant combat and a second stun break when taking that utility, is way, way better than 30% dr while stunned. Placing both on EITHER spec would be too much. You'd have better survivability than a tank.

[Ottoattack]

I do not want to be extremely negative, but as long as pyro utilizes a play style that has both weak dots and cleave in its rotation, it will never ever work in PvP. Add the absolutely terrible survivability, and you have a piece of junk.

 

No changes in 4.0, thus nothing will change. If you want to play a dot spec madness/hatred are light years ahead. And even as cleave, the tank in dps gear does so much better aoe damage.