thraxxousai Posted September 18, 2015 Share Posted September 18, 2015 So for the first time ever I played through the Knight story and I have to ask. How is this man not being tried for warcrimes, or crimes against the galaxy? How is he still in power? He built...4 superweapons, lost them all..and one resulted in the total destruction of a world. How is this man still leading the republic? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sangiban Posted September 18, 2015 Share Posted September 18, 2015 Excellent question. The answer the storyline gives is "eh". Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Celise Posted September 18, 2015 Share Posted September 18, 2015 Var Suthra was just one of a few people who were involved, also the senate ordered at least one highly illegal project and Nasan Godera designed and built these things. there is too much blame to spread around to try it so openly. the reason why it would never see a public trial is because if this one incident is any indication, people will be asking, "what else has the republic done behind our backs?" Elin Garza? Harron Tavus? Darmas Polloran? Sanator Dodonna? Parkanis Tark? Syo Bakarn? thats just a few people the republic has on its payroll with a very questionable background. it could potentially expose even more things the republic has done. like the SIS imprisoning Prince Shange on Belsavis, corruption on Ord Mantell... and the list goes on. it would destroy the republic to learn of so many depraved things the republic has covered up since the empire arrived. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joachimthbear Posted September 18, 2015 Share Posted September 18, 2015 To give some defense of Var Suthra (Jedi Knight Act 1 spoilers) None of his weapons were meant to cause mass destruction. The Planet Prison was designed by Godera to lock down a planet, without killing anyone. The Power Guards were just a super-soldier project - still shady, but from what we see they were all willing volunteers. Var Suthra cancelled development on the Shock Drum when it turned out to be a planet killer. The Death Mark, well, that's just wrong. But it was Angral's idea to turn the whole thing into a way of torching entire planets. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SaveTheMonkeys Posted September 20, 2015 Share Posted September 20, 2015 Because a) A power doesn't typically charge its own people with war crimes - that's for the other side to do, and b) such trials typically don't occur until after a war is won/lost. Given the nature of the galactic war (no holds barred, total conquest and/or destruction), you can be sure that if the Sith won, they'd be summarily executing any Republic leader figure that opposed them, regardless of their actions. If the republic won, they'd most likely sweep any of their own war crimes under the rug. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BrianDavion Posted September 20, 2015 Share Posted September 20, 2015 To give some defense of Var Suthra (Jedi Knight Act 1 spoilers) None of his weapons were meant to cause mass destruction. The Planet Prison was designed by Godera to lock down a planet, without killing anyone. The Power Guards were just a super-soldier project - still shady, but from what we see they were all willing volunteers. Var Suthra cancelled development on the Shock Drum when it turned out to be a planet killer. The Death Mark, well, that's just wrong. But it was Angral's idea to turn the whole thing into a way of torching entire planets. and even the death mark, if properly used was hardly a terriable thing. it was a precision weapon. being able to precisely take down key targets while minimizing colateral damage. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Galdos Posted September 20, 2015 Share Posted September 20, 2015 So for the first time ever I played through the Knight story and I have to ask. How is this man not being tried for warcrimes, or crimes against the galaxy? How is he still in power? He built...4 superweapons, lost them all..and one resulted in the total destruction of a world. How is this man still leading the republic? Because he hasnt committed any warcrimes or crimes against the galaxy? Building superweapons is not a crime. Having your weapons stolen from you is not a crime. Having a weapon stolen from you and then modified so it CAN destroy a world is still not a crime of the original owner. You could debate incompetence but warcimes? Not even close.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SithKoriandr Posted September 20, 2015 Share Posted September 20, 2015 Because he hasnt committed any warcrimes or crimes against the galaxy? Building superweapons is not a crime. Having your weapons stolen from you is not a crime. Having a weapon stolen from you and then modified so it CAN destroy a world is still not a crime of the original owner. You could debate incompetence but warcimes? Not even close.. ^This. Also, you have an enemy making such weapons, one typically makes those weapons as well. Look at RL. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spetulhu Posted September 20, 2015 Share Posted September 20, 2015 (edited) You could debate incompetence but warcimes? Quite so. Still, his incompetence alone should be enough reason to rip his rank tags off and dismiss him from the service. You build not one but FOUR superweapons and the Empire steals ALL of them? Edited September 20, 2015 by Spetulhu Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sichey Posted September 20, 2015 Share Posted September 20, 2015 Quite so. Still, his incompetence alone should be enough reason to rip his rank tags off and dismiss him from the service. You build not one but FOUR superweapons and the Empire steals ALL of them? Well Var Suthra didn't know that Tarnis was a sith. Tarnis, who stole the weapons and gave them to Angral, played a scientist for the republic, until Var Suthra trusted him. While yes, Var Suthra is anything but a perfect general, he did it to save what he believed in. The Sacking of Coruscant "scarred" him. That his lead scientist is a Sith well...bad luck Var Suthra I guess Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shayddow Posted September 20, 2015 Share Posted September 20, 2015 People who invent or develop WMD <weapons of mass destruction> aren't usually held at fault by their own government just because a spy walks off with the plans. The spy, if they are caught, is the one who pays the price. <RL example - when the USSR got ahold of the plans for the atomic bomb, it wasn't the scientists such as Von Braun and Oppenheimer, nor whoever was the chief of staff of the pentagon /US armed forces at the time who were put on trial - it was Clara Rosenberg and her husband who were tried and executed for spying.> Both sides are busily manufacturing such things - you encounter this early in the Empire Story line if you do the Black Talon Flashpoint and speak to the <defecting> General. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rotgutus Posted September 20, 2015 Share Posted September 20, 2015 So for the first time ever I played through the Knight story and I have to ask. How is this man not being tried for warcrimes, or crimes against the galaxy? How is he still in power? He built...4 superweapons, lost them all..and one resulted in the total destruction of a world. How is this man still leading the republic? I found the BH story helps clarify that ... some. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spetulhu Posted September 20, 2015 Share Posted September 20, 2015 People who invent or develop WMD aren't usually held at fault by their own government just because a spy walks off with the plans. The spy, if they are caught, is the one who pays the price. It was still a very badly managed project if the spy walked off with not one but four superweapons. Have these people never heard of security? Documents should be split up behind several safeguards and prototypes located somewhere else and under guard. If one man gets hold of all the necessary stuff - even if he is a lead scientist - there's been a massive security failure and the General in charge is ultimately responsible. Not death penalty responsible but certainly out-on-your-*** responsible, and forget about keeping your rank or pension. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joachimthbear Posted September 21, 2015 Share Posted September 21, 2015 It was still a very badly managed project if the spy walked off with not one but four superweapons. Have these people never heard of security? Documents should be split up behind several safeguards and prototypes located somewhere else and under guard. If one man gets hold of all the necessary stuff - even if he is a lead scientist - there's been a massive security failure and the General in charge is ultimately responsible. Not death penalty responsible but certainly out-on-your-*** responsible, and forget about keeping your rank or pension. Var Suthra was unable to detect the widespread infiltration partly because he didn't have direct oversight over all the projects. If he had, Tarnis alone would have been able to steal all the designs. Instead, it appears to have taken a coordinated effort by Angral and all of his apprentices across several worlds to seize control of the projects. As the player finds the designs for the Desolator weapon on Ord Mantell immediately after Tarnis' death, the whole thing must have been planned well in advance. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OathboundCoH Posted September 22, 2015 Share Posted September 22, 2015 Frankly the game is full of far more incompetent people/soldiers/officers/politicians than Var Suthra. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spetulhu Posted September 22, 2015 Share Posted September 22, 2015 Frankly the game is full of far more incompetent people/soldiers/officers/politicians than Var Suthra. Agreed on that. But even if it's a case of storytelling beating realism, why didnt the General have Jedis sweeping his project crew at least once in a while? The Force is a known concept in that era, even if few people can use it. The General should know that someone might infiltrate his project using Force techniques, and he should know even a novice Jedi can detect some of the less subtle tampering. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SithKoriandr Posted September 22, 2015 Share Posted September 22, 2015 Agreed on that. But even if it's a case of storytelling beating realism, why didnt the General have Jedis sweeping his project crew at least once in a while? The Force is a known concept in that era, even if few people can use it. The General should know that someone might infiltrate his project using Force techniques, and he should know even a novice Jedi can detect some of the less subtle tampering. Because there are MANY who don't care for Jedi all that much. Consular has a mission, where an arms manufacturer really didn't care for the idea of a Jedi watch. For all the Jedi's talk of no emotion, they're not keen on weapons of mass destruction being made. High powerful Jedi's (at least in TOR) think them as over watch is a good thing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OathboundCoH Posted September 22, 2015 Share Posted September 22, 2015 (edited) Because there are MANY who don't care for Jedi all that much. Consular has a mission, where an arms manufacturer really didn't care for the idea of a Jedi watch. For all the Jedi's talk of no emotion, they're not keen on weapons of mass destruction being made. High powerful Jedi's (at least in TOR) think them as over watch is a good thing. Basically yeah. Weapons developers (and some military folks) view the Jedi as meddlesome. Always going around sticking their nose into things, being all morally superior and judgey, while at the same time not willing to "do what needs to be done." Edited September 22, 2015 by OathboundCoH Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SithKoriandr Posted September 22, 2015 Share Posted September 22, 2015 Basically yeah. Weapons developers (and some military folks) view the Jedi as meddlesome. Always going around sticking their nose into things, being all morally superior and judgey, while at the same time not willing to "do what needs to be done." There's some Jedi who think that about the Jedi as a whole too Not all of them are Fallen Jedi either. Likely why some leave the order, but even when one leaves the order, they tend to keep the Jedi moniker. You're a force user? Must be sith or jedi to most people. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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