Ruffian hitting like a wet noodle in PvP

[aristrokratie]

Anyone had the same experience? I have to set up dots and stuff for 4-5 seconds to start doing any damage and then it is still really meh. Also apart from self healing our defensive is meh.

[Ziffron]

You're doing it wrong then

[aristrokratie]

You're doing it wrong then

 

Tell me, oh all mighty god of pvp what am I doing wrong

[ArielRebel]

I'v read around, had my decent experience as ruffian (was playing lethality op before my months-long break) and saw some vids of most people saying (in a really TL.DR.): go for concealment/scrapper for really good burst and lethality/ruffian if you want decent burst with really good off-heals and resistance to DoTs (which, for a while, were flying everywhere with all scrubs rerolling FOTM sins going hatred and sorcs going madness). As of right now, I am not too sure if there's still has many DoTs going around in PVP, but there's no question there that scrapper does a lot more burst than ruffian.

[aristrokratie]

I'v read around, had my decent experience as ruffian (was playing lethality op before my months-long break) and saw some vids of most people saying (in a really TL.DR.): go for concealment/scrapper for really good burst and lethality/ruffian if you want decent burst with really good off-heals and resistance to DoTs (which, for a while, were flying everywhere with all scrubs rerolling FOTM sins going hatred and sorcs going madness). As of right now, I am not too sure if there's still has many DoTs going around in PVP, but there's no question there that scrapper does a lot more burst than ruffian.

 

It's just I have to put my two dots on, sanguairy shot, blaster whip and then I start doing some quite nice damage.

 

In this time a pt has already globaled his target

 

The overall dps is okay, I manage to get 1.2k dps and 500-1k hps default per arena but it just taaaaaakeeeees soooooooo looooooong for my damage to get going.

Edited September 13, 2015 by aristrokratie

[aristrokratie]

I'v read around, had my decent experience as ruffian (was playing lethality op before my months-long break) and saw some vids of most people saying (in a really TL.DR.): go for concealment/scrapper for really good burst and lethality/ruffian if you want decent burst with really good off-heals and resistance to DoTs (which, for a while, were flying everywhere with all scrubs rerolling FOTM sins going hatred and sorcs going madness). As of right now, I am not too sure if there's still has many DoTs going around in PVP, but there's no question there that scrapper does a lot more burst than ruffian.

 

nope not that many dots but burst powertechs

[ArielRebel]

It's just I have to put my two dots on, sanguairy shot, blaster whip and then I start doing some quite nice damage.

 

In this time a pt has already globaled his target

 

The overall dps is okay, I manage to get 1.2k dps and 500-1k hps default per arena but it just taaaaaakeeeees soooooooo looooooong for my damage to get going.

 

I hear you. I love ruffian too but beside the off heals, I feel almost useless damage-wise as I can't burst somebody as quickly as a lot of the other burst classes.

[sharkfishman]

I disagree totally. I think that Ruffian is an awesome burst pvp spec. True, it takes a couple of secs to get your DoTs on (less if you learn to spread them), but I've noticed that ppl underestimate you, which gives you an advantage. Sorcs almost always ignore us, they see us fire, nothing happens, and then all of a sudden, you've got your 3 brutal shots taking them down 1/4 health at a time. If you do it right, they don't have time to get their shield up before they're dead. That doesn't happen a lot with melee classes or pts. Ppl always put up their defensives with PTs and Shadows cause they know what's coming. That's what makes Ruffian so awesome, IMHO. Edited October 2, 2015 by CommunityDroidEU
referral link removed

[QuiveringPotato]

Anyone had the same experience? I have to set up dots and stuff for 4-5 seconds to start doing any damage and then it is still really meh. Also apart from self healing our defensive is meh.

 

I disagree. While the set-up time is pretty long, once your damage starts going, it melts people.

 

Note: these aren't the best players, but this is the only video I have of me playing lethality at the moment. These players are geared, though.

 

[aristrokratie]

It's just I have to put my two dots on, sanguairy shot, blaster whip and then I start doing some quite nice damage.

 

In this time a pt has already globaled his target

 

The overall dps is okay, I manage to get 1.2k dps and 500-1k hps default per arena but it just taaaaaakeeeees soooooooo looooooong for my damage to get going.

 

here again. takes long then okay, that's what i was saying

[Amaste]

I disagree. While the set-up time is pretty long, once your damage starts going, it melts people.

 

Note: these aren't the best players, but this is the only video I have of me playing lethality at the moment. These players are geared, though.

 

 

That vid made me genuinely angry with your team, but a fun watch for sure. Tempted to take one of my op alts lethality for some fun one of these days pre 4.0

[cs_zoltan]

It will never be a good PvP spec without a major overhaul. Right now even in PvE it has worse dps than the burst spec Scrapper. Not a good start. Now add in the fact that over 50% of it's damage is internal which gets an additional 10% damage reduction in PvP (absent in PvE) and you get an useless spec for PvP from a dps viewpoint.

 

Anything Ruffian can do Scrapper does it better, except offhealing. But then you might as well go full healer.

Edited September 14, 2015 by cs_zoltan

[QuiveringPotato]

It will never be a good PvP spec without a major overhaul. Right now even in PvE it has worse dps than the burst spec Scrapper. Not a good start. Now add in the fact that over 50% of it's damage is internal which gets an additional 10% damage reduction in PvP (absent in PvE) and you get an useless spec for PvP from a dps viewpoint.

 

Anything Ruffian can do Scrapper does it better, except offhealing. But then you might as well go full healer.

 

Yeah, I almost always get that feeling off "Man, I should've been concealment" when I'm playing leth, except for those occasions where I'm basically carrying my team's DPS through offheals and being a huge pain in the *** for the enemy team.

 

Lethality is still fun to play, though.

[cs_zoltan]

Lethality is still fun to play, though.

 

I agree on that one, that's why I'm still Leth not Conc. But it's still not viable.

[MrGoldsilver]

I personally prefer lethality over concealment just because it's playstyle is different. Playing lethality right requires you to be kiting in and out of melee range to avoid range knockbacks, and melee attacks. Also, as stated before, it's a nice counter to madness sorcs with the great HOT offheals, and 30% DOT damage reduction. But yes I agree that concealment has better burst and target switch.

 

Of course, I am that idiot who plays Pyrotech Powertech in pvp since I refuse to be carried by FotM status...

[QuiveringPotato]

I agree on that one, that's why I'm still Leth not Conc. But it's still not viable.

 

I wouldn't say it's not viable, it's just not as good as the other classes right now. Like Pyro PT, for instance, but I've still seen a friend running that spec pull top damage and such.

 

The main issue with Lethality is the long set-up time + lack of anti-burst DCDs. If your team has a few burst DPS, you're gonna struggle to get your rotation going on 1 enemy before they're dead, and if the other team has burst DPS, you're gonna be kiting around and healing yourself more than trying to do damage.

 

Still, the latter part is mostly the same in concealment, I often find myself rolling in a completely defensive manner, but I can at least survive said burst in concealment.

[cs_zoltan]

I wouldn't say it's not viable, it's just not as good as the other classes right now.

 

It's the worst dps spec in PvP. If that doesn't make it not viable, I don't know what does. Being a reg hero with it doesn't make it viable.

[ArielRebel]

It's the worst dps spec in PvP. If that doesn't make it not viable, I don't know what does. Being a reg hero with it doesn't make it viable.

 

Wut? Why would it be the worst? A lot would argue annihilation marauders, to name only one, is a lot worst for example.

[QuiveringPotato]

Wut? Why would it be the worst? A lot would argue annihilation marauders, to name only one, is a lot worst for example.

 

I would say Engi Sniper is worse than lethality, and annihilation is pretty poopy too (unless you have good team support, then you can get awesome damage). Pyro PT is also quite bad, less damage and worse survivability than leth.

[cs_zoltan]

Lethality is the worst because it has long setup time, and defenses on the gcd. You can't have good dps and good survivability. For example Anni has better dps, better burst, less setup time, better dot spread, and no defense on the gcd. Pyro is similar as well, except it doesn't have better dps...

[Lalainnia]

Leth has been the worst spec in the game forever lol I'm pretty sure balance shadows and sorcs weren't even this bad before their buffs specs main def tool is a non modified instant kolto infusion ha.......It takes around 6 gcds for this spec to even start doing anything harmful.

[Cuiwe]

Funny thing is that Scrapper and Ruffian have likely similar dps but in the differing ways:

 

Scrapper just needs to use Back Blast and then proceed with the scrap. SUCKER PUNCH!

 

Ruffian otoh needs to open with Point Blank Shot, put both DoTs on, put Sanguinary and FIRE AWAY(remember to use Pugnacity later)! The damage of Brutal Shots is so large that it catches up nicely with Scrapper(not to mention DoTs doing their magic). Especially because when Ruffian starts winding up, Scrapper starts to wind down. It's really a nice juxtaposition.

 

The reason why people like Scrapper more as a whole, I feel, is because it's simpler. It's one of the simpler, yet effective disciplines out there. If this sounds difficult to you:

 

Back Blast -> Blood Boiler -> Bludgeon -> Punch -> Punch -> Punch -> Pugnacity -> Punch -> Bludgeon -> Punch -> Punch

 

Then idk what to say to you. Don't play a Sent ?

Edited September 17, 2015 by Cuiwe

[Cuiwe]

Leth has been the worst spec in the game forever lol I'm pretty sure balance shadows and sorcs weren't even this bad before their buffs specs main def tool is a non modified instant kolto infusion ha.......It takes around 6 gcds for this spec to even start doing anything harmful.

 

6? Not 5?

[Mubrak]

6? Not 5?

 

4 actually.

 

Vital Shot > Shrap Bomb > Blaster Whip > Sanguniary Shot.

 

Then everything is ready for

Brutal Shots > Brutal Shots > Brutal Shots > Point Blank Shot > Brutal Shots > Pugnacity > Brutal Shots

 

Opening with point blank shot from stealth isn't really helpful, IMO. You score one hard hit and then they have 3 GCDs to recover, or kill you if they're a melee burst class. I prefer dotting them softly from afar, rather than putting them in "oh sith" mode long before I'm ready to do actual damage, but even if you do open with PBS it's still 4 GCDs until you have all debuffs up and 2 UHs.

Edited September 17, 2015 by Mubrak

[Mubrak]

Leth has been the worst spec in the game forever

 

Except for the coolness/annoyance factor, lethality beat concealment by a mile in 2.0, with superior damage and superior defense, in 3.0 damage was equalised (leth needs one less GCD for preparation between burst phases but lost explosive probe, conc got a general damage buff.) and while lethality's shield probe was split into utilities, concealment got an overpowered DCD with the removal of the rng from Shadow Operative Elite.

Edited September 17, 2015 by Mubrak