4.0 Assassin

[Lalainnia]

I edited it a bit since you quoted it, but yes. It's an issue in any fight where you hit ~90 straight seconds of uptime, which is most fights, especially with 4.0 around the corner.

 

Ah ok that clears things up thank you very much. also agree with a change like that suggest posting it in the general forums thing they put up.

[akraven]

But assassins get a teleport to target that doesn't break stealth..so it's not really a nerf.

[sithBracer]

But assassins get a teleport to target that doesn't break stealth..so it's not really a nerf.

 

Are you really going to use it while in stealth? For what purpose (other than trying to look flashy on a stream)? If you use it you will be putting it on CD for 30s and will give up some burst by creating 3 charges before using recklessness. If you are trying to use it with hatred ... well I don't even see the point honestly. Not to mention you will just be giving yourself away while in stealth since they will be able to see you right away before you get a chance to move away. This ability will just be used for huttball (which in 4.0 is not going to be a big deal anymore) and as a way to get a tiny bit of extra burst from recklessness (which still won't put us above anyone else in terms of burst). If this ability was available right now (in exchange for maybe the 30m LS) then it would be pretty good, but in 4.0, just like the class itself, the ability and its effects are just "meh".

[allexj]

Are you really going to use it while in stealth? For what purpose (other than trying to look flashy on a stream)? If you use it you will be putting it on CD for 30s and will give up some burst by creating 3 charges before using recklessness. If you are trying to use it with hatred ... well I don't even see the point honestly. Not to mention you will just be giving yourself away while in stealth since they will be able to see you right away before you get a chance to move away. This ability will just be used for huttball (which in 4.0 is not going to be a big deal anymore) and as a way to get a tiny bit of extra burst from recklessness (which still won't put us above anyone else in terms of burst). If this ability was available right now (in exchange for maybe the 30m LS) then it would be pretty good, but in 4.0, just like the class itself, the ability and its effects are just "meh".

 

It is useable while in stealth

[Aelanis]

It is useable while in stealth

 

Yes, but there's no point in specifically using it in stealth. Why would you not just sneak up on your target since, I don't know, you're in stealth? If you need to catch a target, why are you in stealth? Maybe if you want to move unseen between nodes there's a decent reason to do it, but then again, you pop up next to them, where they can probably see you. The fact that you would then have to wait to use it while it's on cooldown when you might actually need it is a bigger downside than moving a little faster in stealth is a benefit.

[Jinre_the_Jedi]

Yes, but there's no point in specifically using it in stealth. Why would you not just sneak up on your target since, I don't know, you're in stealth? If you need to catch a target, why are you in stealth? Maybe if you want to move unseen between nodes there's a decent reason to do it, but then again, you pop up next to them, where they can probably see you. The fact that you would then have to wait to use it while it's on cooldown when you might actually need it is a bigger downside than moving a little faster in stealth is a benefit.

 

Agreed. There is a load of lost potential if you use this ability while in stealth. In fact, it's similar to current sins who use Force Speed while in stealth. Granted, Force Speed in it's current incarnation is on a low enough cool down that by the time you actually NEED it again it will be available, but the thought process is the same, you're essentially wasting a gap closer while within a gap closer.

 

I can't wait to see how many sins will actually Force Speed in stealth and then follow it up with a Phantom Stride in stealth to reach an enemy

[Jinre_the_Jedi]

Are you really going to use it while in stealth? For what purpose (other than trying to look flashy on a stream)? If you use it you will be putting it on CD for 30s and will give up some burst by creating 3 charges before using recklessness. If you are trying to use it with hatred ... well I don't even see the point honestly. Not to mention you will just be giving yourself away while in stealth since they will be able to see you right away before you get a chance to move away. This ability will just be used for huttball (which in 4.0 is not going to be a big deal anymore) and as a way to get a tiny bit of extra burst from recklessness (which still won't put us above anyone else in terms of burst). If this ability was available right now (in exchange for maybe the 30m LS) then it would be pretty good, but in 4.0, just like the class itself, the ability and its effects are just "meh".

 

This brings up a pretty good topic, the uses for this ability in Hatred. I can say 100% without a doubt that I will use the ability WAY less in hatred than I will with Deception. It's just a different playstyle and is almost counter intuitive. If I'm trying to play Hatred as a kind of medium range melee spec that allows me to weave in and out of melee range, but for the most part, stay out of the big dogpile happening on top of a node since I'm already squishy, why would I want to use an ability that would propel me deeper into that dogpile that I'm avoiding.

 

And on the other hand, why would I want to use it on that straggling player who is OUT of the dogpile when the whole point of the spec is heavy AoE pressure? That would be putting me away from the location where I would be doing maximum dps and into a single target dps scenario.

 

For hatred, this ability will have very niche uses and the only time I see myself actively using it is to execute the last remaining players on an enemy team or an escaping enemy player who is low with a double and potentially (pray to RNGesus) triple Assassinate on an enemy. Compared to Deception where kiting is a big issue, at least.

[sithBracer]

This brings up a pretty good topic, the uses for this ability in Hatred. I can say 100% without a doubt that I will use the ability WAY less in hatred than I will with Deception. It's just a different playstyle and is almost counter intuitive. If I'm trying to play Hatred as a kind of medium range melee spec that allows me to weave in and out of melee range, but for the most part, stay out of the big dogpile happening on top of a node since I'm already squishy, why would I want to use an ability that would propel me deeper into that dogpile that I'm avoiding.

 

Pretty much this. Hatred has always been an "in and out" class, not really a class you could stay in pack with. We were a bit better at it in 3.0 thanks to the self healing, but that is gone so ... yeah as far as I can see other than huttball I don't see any use for this ability on hatred, neither for PvE nor PvP.

 

And on the other hand, why would I want to use it on that straggling player who is OUT of the dogpile when the whole point of the spec is heavy AoE pressure? That would be putting me away from the location where I would be doing maximum dps and into a single target dps scenario.

 

Heavy AoE pressure? lol, those days are pretty much over with the 3.3 nerfs. Right now this class is mostly a single target DoT class with one decent 10m AoE attack. As for picking off a straggler, not sure how this class is really effective at even doing that with the long setup.

 

For hatred, this ability will have very niche uses and the only time I see myself actively using it is to execute the last remaining players on an enemy team or an escaping enemy player who is low with a double and potentially (pray to RNGesus) triple Assassinate on an enemy. Compared to Deception where kiting is a big issue, at least.

 

imo, deception doesn't really have any kiting issues anymore with maybe the exception of operatives due to their trollroll. This ability would be perfect for deception if it existed now and LS was back to what it was before, but like I said before, in 4.0, it is just "meh".

 

I'm glad I chose to create and play sorc more since 3.1.

Edited September 27, 2015 by sithBracer

[allexj]

Yes, but there's no point in specifically using it in stealth. Why would you not just sneak up on your target since, I don't know, you're in stealth? If you need to catch a target, why are you in stealth? Maybe if you want to move unseen between nodes there's a decent reason to do it, but then again, you pop up next to them, where they can probably see you. The fact that you would then have to wait to use it while it's on cooldown when you might actually need it is a bigger downside than moving a little faster in stealth is a benefit.

 

I didn't say it was a good idea to do it only that you can.....and honestly stealth v stealth, if you can see each other is a game of tag with this move not so much, but again I play a tank and will be switching to complete shank tank in 4.0, so it will be worthless other then a gap.closer which force speed dose anyway

[Jinre_the_Jedi]

I didn't say it was a good idea to do it only that you can.....and honestly stealth v stealth, if you can see each other is a game of tag with this move not so much, but again I play a tank and will be switching to complete shank tank in 4.0, so it will be worthless other then a gap.closer which force speed dose anyway

 

The implications of this ability on a tank is questionable as well. Outside of the root break and movespeed increase, I don't see the use of it. Most of the enemies I'm attacking as a tank can't escape me anyway due to the amount of control I can have over them as Darkness/Kinetic Combat and on top of that, I have to stay within 15m of my guarded ally, so teleporting 30m away from them is just counter intuitive. The only use for this that I see is if you have a healer sitting back, 15+ meters away and a dps jumps to them, in which case you could teleport to that dps and guard your healer, but why would you do that when you could instead just Force Pull them away from the healer?

 

Idk, I feel like they should have tied something more into this ability with tanks, like increased damage reduction by x% for x seconds or something. Just my opinion though.

[Aelanis]

The implications of this ability on a tank is questionable as well. Outside of the root break and movespeed increase, I don't see the use of it. Most of the enemies I'm attacking as a tank can't escape me anyway due to the amount of control I can have over them as Darkness/Kinetic Combat and on top of that, I have to stay within 15m of my guarded ally, so teleporting 30m away from them is just counter intuitive. The only use for this that I see is if you have a healer sitting back, 15+ meters away and a dps jumps to them, in which case you could teleport to that dps and guard your healer, but why would you do that when you could instead just Force Pull them away from the healer?

 

Idk, I feel like they should have tied something more into this ability with tanks, like increased damage reduction by x% for x seconds or something. Just my opinion though.

 

It does trigger Conspirator's Cloak. Also, the usefulness in for tanks in PvE is insane. In PvE, rather than sticking around and guarding your healer and playing reactively (with a little proactive mitigation), you instead play almost entirely proactively, and typically things are going bad if you have to play truly reactively. Unlike in PvP, you can control the enemy's position in PvE, and being able to taunt while away from the boss and keep them from moving by teleporting in is very useful. See: EC Kephess, TFB Kephess NiM (not that keeping him in that circle was ever hard), Ancient Threat, and more. There are plenty of times where you have to clear out, and get back in before the boss moves too much after a stationary move. It also opens up a few neat possibilities on Revan HM for Assassins, though you (obviously) don't need the teleport to get a working strategy going.

 

Oh, and it fundamentally changes how you can handle the tank swap in the Dread Council fight, as all 3 tanks have a leap, and 2 will now have a non-leap, truly high-speed gap closer.

Edited September 27, 2015 by Aelanis

[Jinre_the_Jedi]

It does trigger Conspirator's Cloak. Also, the usefulness in for tanks in PvE is insane. In PvE, rather than sticking around and guarding your healer and playing reactively (with a little proactive mitigation), you instead play almost entirely proactively, and typically things are going bad if you have to play truly reactively. Unlike in PvP, you can control the enemy's position in PvE, and being able to taunt while away from the boss and keep them from moving by teleporting in is very useful. See: EC Kephess, TFB Kephess NiM (not that keeping him in that circle was ever hard), Ancient Threat, and more. There are plenty of times where you have to clear out, and get back in before the boss moves too much after a stationary move. It also opens up a few neat possibilities on Revan HM for Assassins, though you (obviously) don't need the teleport to get a working strategy going.

 

Oh, and it fundamentally changes how you can handle the tank swap in the Dread Council fight, as all 3 tanks have a leap, and 2 will now have a non-leap, truly high-speed gap closer.

 

Good point, i was being selfish and only thinking of PvP

[allexj]

Good point, i was being selfish and only thinking of PvP

 

Thier is only pvp!

[Lalainnia]

Still an awesome ability in any spec and will find all around general use for pvp as it's a 30m gap closer off the gcd and gives 75% movement increase for 3 seconds. Plain and simple the move will be amazing on each spec while deception may be more dependent on it than darkness or hatred both the move will have high general usage. So all this downplaying it's usefulness in a pvp setting is dumb.

[sithBracer]

Still an awesome ability in any spec and will find all around general use for pvp as it's a 30m gap closer off the gcd and gives 75% movement increase for 3 seconds. Plain and simple the move will be amazing on each spec while deception may be more dependent on it than darkness or hatred both the move will have high general usage. So all this downplaying it's usefulness in a pvp setting is dumb.

 

It is about the ability compared to what other classes are getting and about it not fixing ANY of our problems. I even said that this ability would be perfect for dealing with being kited if we had it now instead of the 30m LS (which I admit is kind of a BS ability). It's also about how useful it will be in a normal PvP setting. The answer? For hatred it will be almost useless. For deception, it will just be used for the 3 stacks (honestly did they REALLY have to tie it to this ability? There was absolutely NOTHING else they could've given us 3 stacks with?) which will not really increase the burst by much and will force us to waste it in the beginning after recklessness anyway.

 

It might be a bit useful for huttball, but other classes have (or received) abilities that outclass us there as well-that's providing we don't lose the ball while teleporting.

 

/bonk (did I say that right?)

[Jinre_the_Jedi]

Still an awesome ability in any spec and will find all around general use for pvp as it's a 30m gap closer off the gcd and gives 75% movement increase for 3 seconds. Plain and simple the move will be amazing on each spec while deception may be more dependent on it than darkness or hatred both the move will have high general usage. So all this downplaying it's usefulness in a pvp setting is dumb.

 

I'm not downplaying its usefulness for Deception, but as a tank, i mean...come on lol.

[Kazz_Devlin]

It is about the ability compared to what other classes are getting and about it not fixing ANY of our problems. I even said that this ability would be perfect for dealing with being kited if we had it now instead of the 30m LS (which I admit is kind of a BS ability). It's also about how useful it will be in a normal PvP setting. The answer? For hatred it will be almost useless. For deception, it will just be used for the 3 stacks (honestly did they REALLY have to tie it to this ability? There was absolutely NOTHING else they could've given us 3 stacks with?) which will not really increase the burst by much and will force us to waste it in the beginning after recklessness anyway.

 

It might be a bit useful for huttball, but other classes have (or received) abilities that outclass us there as well-that's providing we don't lose the ball while teleporting.

 

/bonk (did I say that right?)

I really don't have an issue with low slash I think thats fine i would like to see lighting have a 15 meter range at least though

[sithBracer]

I really don't have an issue with low slash I think thats fine i would like to see lighting have a 15 meter range at least though

 

I don't have a problem with it either, but a lot of people seem to think that a 4s 30m mezz on a 15s CD is quite OP (even if the class overall is not). And force lightning should be 30m by default (DV can stay at 10m if that is their worry). There is literally no use for it now other than finishing someone off comically.

Edited September 28, 2015 by sithBracer

[Lalainnia]

It is about the ability compared to what other classes are getting and about it not fixing ANY of our problems. I even said that this ability would be perfect for dealing with being kited if we had it now instead of the 30m LS (which I admit is kind of a BS ability). It's also about how useful it will be in a normal PvP setting. The answer? For hatred it will be almost useless. For deception, it will just be used for the 3 stacks (honestly did they REALLY have to tie it to this ability? There was absolutely NOTHING else they could've given us 3 stacks with?) which will not really increase the burst by much and will force us to waste it in the beginning after recklessness anyway.

 

It might be a bit useful for huttball, but other classes have (or received) abilities that outclass us there as well-that's providing we don't lose the ball while teleporting.

 

/bonk (did I say that right?)

 

Its a 30m gap closer off the gcd there is utterly nothing useless about that in any spec, decption just got a nice perk added to it. Compared to what other classes got this isn't bad at all Warriors get mad dash which will do X amount of damage and give immunity to damage but it's only 20m and on the gcd with a 15 second longer cd, Operatives is the same just that they can target a friendly, but it has a 45 sec cd. Mercs is a backwards 20m leap granting cc immunity for the length of the ability 20 sec cd. PT's get jet leap, and lastly sorcs get PW. Out of those the honest clear winner of all will be Sorcs and by a large margin all classes are upset about that prob shadows and sins the most as it used to be exclusive.

 

A target stuns you as a hatred sin and begins to run away plus your dot root is on cd just shadowstride to them instead of using force speed the new move is great and just adds to the arsenal of tools to keep on a target without using other abilities. or you get yanked away from a target by a powertech without grapple root shadowstride right back the uses are out there and it will be used pretty often in all specs especially if it doesn't respect elevation which I doubt it will. Also think assassins new move along with operatives will most likely drop the ball

 

/bonkbonk

[Lalainnia]

I'm not downplaying its usefulness for Deception, but as a tank, i mean...come on lol.

 

Gonna be nice on a tank too. Shadowstride off gcd into a spinning kick, then pull a second caster to you drop a grenade to mez all without blowing force speed. Or something like arena even like u said yourself instead of using PW to bait someone out on makeb can use the new ability. Or open with it to secure a mez right before a fight starts. All this move does is complement shadow moves. Like one of your fav things is removing a tank or specific target with pull and lift combos after that can use stride to immediately get back into the fight. It's uses are there and it's a great move added into shadows and sins arsenal.

 

Just like mercs rocket out it's going to combo really well with other moves like jetboost into rocket out. Or rocket out into Htl.Another one is net into rocket out into knockback.

 

Even powertechs that think storm is going to be useless on the dps specs will find common uses for it as it's another interrupt and it roots targets for 3 seconds.

[MusicRider]

So now that we've seen some official changes, I'd like to point out a problem with Deception. This is under the assumption that there aren't other changes they haven't listed, which is the only assumption I can reasonably make, as terrible an assumption as it is. Anyway, on to my point:

 

 

Ask anyone who knows half a thing about playing Deception in a sustained scenario, and they'll tell you that, to conserve Force, make sure to build 2 stacks of Induction before you use Ball Lightning. This is obviously the intended way to play the class, as Ball Lightning glow when you build that second stack, and it's made fairly obvious in the skill tree that that's part of the plan for sustained damage. Said somewhat knowledgeable person will also tell you that delaying Ball Lightning is bad for your damage, and you should only do so to Discharge at 3 stacks of Static Charge.

 

I bring these two tidbits up because there is a fundamental conflict between the two ideas that isn't clearly visible: using Ball Lightning on cooldown (delaying only for Discharge) and making sure you build 2 stacks of Induction in the 3 intervening GCDs is strictly Force negative. Because of the 6 second block that turns into VS > VS > Discharge > BL, the rotation goes horribly Force negative. Now yes, you can voluntarily sacrifice one of your two goals to satisfy the other while staying closer to Force neutral, but that would suggest a fundamental design flaw (not to mention the fact that it still doesn't really work), and those are really ugly.

 

Now, an astute observer might say, "but Aelanis, isn't that how the developers tried to change the Disciplines in 3.0, to not be able to go full bore dps all the time? And the rotation is already actually Force negative, we just have Dark Embrace to fill our bar back up when we get low!" The first is a valid point, but misses the big picture. The second doesn't account for the fact that even maximizing Force regeneration via Dark Embrace that the problem doesn't go away, and gets really bad when you get to back to back Discharge. However, there are issues that, again, aren't readily apparent that make the the point meaningless.

 

First, while yes, we would have to willingly sacrifice resource management to do more damage for that 6 second block, like the developers intended, the idea is that we then give up some damage elsewhere to make it back up. Except we can't. There are no other places where we can choose to do less damage to save on Force without directly disregarding at least one of our two goals. Our rotation already sacrifices as many VS activations as it can to try to stay neutral, there are no more to give up without also giving up the second stack of Induction. Now maybe I'm wrong, but I don't believe they want us to have to not perform our intended rotation to make it work.

 

So, we should now see that there's a fundamental problem. There will be a worse problem when 4.0 hits and we use back to back Discharges about twice as often. However, there is a very simple solution: have Discharge build a stack of Induction. Crazy, yes, but let me explain.

 

This kills three birds with one stone, and creates no problems in the process (that I can see):

 

1. It allows us to stay Force neutral and fulfill the two goals I listed at the start. It means we never have to delay Ball Lightning and can always have 2 stacks of Induction for it.
   
2. It fulfills the developer goal of allowing us to spend more resources to do more damage now, at the cost of doing damage later. We can still use VS multiple times in that problem block, but it's no longer necessary, and we would now knowingly have to hurt our resource management to do so.
   
3. It doesn't change what is actually a very smooth rotation at all. It therefore doesn't vastly change the damage output the Discipline has, and so balance metrics wouldn't have to significantly change. It's a minor increase in sustained damage, but considering our place so near the bottom of the totem pole, that's okay in my book.
   

 

 

So, for the tl;dr version: we have a fundamental problem by trying to both build 2 stacks of Induction and not delay Ball Lightning, in that it makes our intended sustained rotation unsustainable. Solution: make Discharge build Induction, which introduces no major issues and smooths a bunch of things out.

 

Also, I hate trying to post on my phone.

 

Agree and I see that you are aiming replacing now or later one of the VS with strike. Out of curiosity why not make discharge free of cost for 6s after using phantom stride. A pure dps increase which helps for pve, makes 0 difference in pvp as people will sacrifice even their mother to get as much burst as possible so they dont care about this force cost, and rotation carries on smoothly and in fact there is an additional force help every 30s. If it proves too much to the point that it is no longer to replace VS with auto then make it 25 or 50% force saving on next discharge.

Edited September 28, 2015 by MusicRider

[sithBracer]

Its a 30m gap closer off the gcd there is utterly nothing useless about that in any spec, decption just got a nice perk added to it. Compared to what other classes got this isn't bad at all Warriors get mad dash which will do X amount of damage and give immunity to damage but it's only 20m and on the gcd with a 15 second longer cd, Operatives is the same just that they can target a friendly, but it has a 45 sec cd. Mercs is a backwards 20m leap granting cc immunity for the length of the ability 20 sec cd. PT's get jet leap, and lastly sorcs get PW. Out of those the honest clear winner of all will be Sorcs and by a large margin all classes are upset about that prob shadows and sins the most as it used to be exclusive.

 

I'm personally not upset about sorcs getting PW, I just don't think it belongs on a healer who is already very hard to kill (they were even tough to kill before the unnecessary buffs). I honestly don't really care about the dps specs getting it, esp if off healing is going to be nerfed.

 

Also you haven't explained how this gap closer will be useful. Hatred is not a class that needs to run into a dogpile and it has no issues with being kited in 1v1s (except by sorcs but lets be honest after their buff they will still be able to pretty easily kite us). Deception doesn't have any issues staying on target after the LS buff so that argument is out the window, and even if it did, we are being pigeon held to using if after the first recklessness discharge just to make sure our already pitiful burst doesn't become more pitiful.

 

A target stuns you as a hatred sin and begins to run away plus your dot root is on cd just shadowstride to them instead of using force speed the new move is great and just adds to the arsenal of tools to keep on a target without using other abilities. or you get yanked away from a target by a powertech without grapple root shadowstride right back the uses are out there and it will be used pretty often in all specs especially if it doesn't respect elevation which I doubt it will.

 

Those are some pretty extreme circumstances. Stun and run away against a hatred assassin? Who does that except maybe sorcs (who will still easily be able to kite hatred)? As for getting yanked by a PT the only time that happens is when he comes to help an offnode in which case it doesn't even matter because 1. you will have it on CD from your initial recklessness. 2. if you were able to last that long you will probably be low on health and out of CDs and will definitely not be able to beat a PT. 3. 99% of the times you get stunned immediately after the pull (or at least I do). The fact that you have to think so hard to come up with a use case for this proves what a useless ability it is in a 4.0 environment.

 

Also think assassins new move along with operatives will most likely drop the ball

/bonkbonk

 

I hope not

/bonkbonkbonk

[Lalainnia]

I'm personally not upset about sorcs getting PW, I just don't think it belongs on a healer who is already very hard to kill (they were even tough to kill before the unnecessary buffs). I honestly don't really care about the dps specs getting it, esp if off healing is going to be nerfed.

 

Also you haven't explained how this gap closer will be useful. Hatred is not a class that needs to run into a dogpile and it has no issues with being kited in 1v1s (except by sorcs but lets be honest after their buff they will still be able to pretty easily kite us). Deception doesn't have any issues staying on target after the LS buff so that argument is out the window, and even if it did, we are being pigeon held to using if after the first recklessness discharge just to make sure our already pitiful burst doesn't become more pitiful.

 

 

 

Those are some pretty extreme circumstances. Stun and run away against a hatred assassin? Who does that except maybe sorcs (who will still easily be able to kite hatred)? As for getting yanked by a PT the only time that happens is when he comes to help an offnode in which case it doesn't even matter because 1. you will have it on CD from your initial recklessness. 2. if you were able to last that long you will probably be low on health and out of CDs and will definitely not be able to beat a PT. 3. 99% of the times you get stunned immediately after the pull (or at least I do). The fact that you have to think so hard to come up with a use case for this proves what a useless ability it is in a 4.0 environment.

 

 

 

I hope not

/bonkbonkbonk

 

All ranged classes and healers run away from hatred sins.... so thats any sorc spec any sniper spec any merc spec. Even an AP pt will try to kite one Hatred has 2 options to deal outside of 10m and that's spamming creeping terror or using reck on force lighting otherwise it needs to be melee just like everyone else to do any meaniful damage. AP is the only "melee" spec that can deal consistent amounts of damage from 30m. Those example aren't extreme at all a sorcs icd on their creeping terror rot is 9sec without alacirty after the 2 sec root is done can use shadowstride to jump back on them or if they happen to whirlwind you or knock you back instead of using force speed can use shadowstrike if no root is present. This move can be used right after a merc knocks you back, the only thing this will be fairly useless against is a sniper because of cover and the fact that their knockback roots.

 

The PT part makes no sense the only reason this move would be on cd is if you're going all in to kill someone and need extra burst Powertechs and shadow tanks yank enemies back pretty often to help peel for others or engage a target. Say your on an enemy healer and get yanked can simply teleport back to the healer. As for beating a PT this one ability isn't an actual attack like warriors its simply meant to stick on a target it gives 75% movement speed for 3 seconds that's very very good. In a warzone there will without a doubt be multiple people attacking the same target and all this move does is make it easier to stick on those targets specially with the new speed utilities. It's another move to use to quickly get back on a target when force speed is down or it would be a waste to use because it breaks roots.

 

Here are more examples to reinforce my point operatives rolling away all 3 specs.

Sorcs all 3 specs

Mercs all 3 specs

Snipers if you can catch one out of cover and aren't stunned or rooted.

Any player attempting to get to an objective

Any player running towards los for heals

Great move to set up CC or neat tricks like jumping to a lower floor baiting a target or targets only to teleport to a ranged above.

Engaging combat on a target, stealth teleport to incoming help(off gcd) mez.

Teleporting to a target about to receive a huttball pass

The list can go on.

 

It's a good ability the 75% speed boost for 3 seconds is my fav part tbh

 

Bonk

[sithBracer]

All ranged classes and healers run away from hatred sins.... so thats any sorc spec any sniper spec any merc spec.

 

Ok since you are saying all ranged:

1. this move doesn't affect snipers since they are in cover.

2. sorcs will easily be able to kite us with their new ability so at the very least it will be even, but lets be honest they definitely got the better ability for kiting.

3. I don't know what mercs you fought against on your assassin, but 99% of mercs I fight against either use chaffe flarre to make almost all my burst useless, or they use KB+enet+super burst.

 

Also, hatred is not a spec that "stays on an enemy". It is an in and out spec. It goes in, DoTs up, gets a bit of burst and then gets out of the battle and lets the DoTs eat away at the enemy. It doesn't have the DCDs or DR to stay in dogpiles or to chase enemies (except once again madness sorcs, who once again will barely even notice this ability).

 

Even an AP pt will try to kite one Hatred has 2 options to deal outside of 10m and that's spamming creeping terror or using reck on force lighting otherwise it needs to be melee just like everyone else to do any meaniful damage. AP is the only "melee" spec that can deal consistent amounts of damage from 30m.

 

Are you seriously suggesting that a hatred assassin should take on a AP PT head on? The lightest armor class, with the lowest DR and an extremely long setup vs the burstiest class in a 1v1? You will be doing him a favor by teleporting next to him, why you would want to do this is just baffling.

 

The PT part makes no sense the only reason this move would be on cd is if you're going all in to kill someone and need extra burst Powertechs and shadow tanks yank enemies back pretty often to help peel for others or engage a target.

 

Why is it so hard to accept that this is not a dogpile class? Out of the many, many, many battles I had the only memorable times that I got pulled were when I was offnode and the PT came over to help, almost every time was followed by a stun. Well, that and getting pulled into the fire, but that's another story.

 

Say your on an enemy healer and get yanked can simply teleport back to the healer.

 

Yeah, this never happened except in arenas where we were usually losing anyway.

 

As for beating a PT this one ability isn't an actual attack like warriors its simply meant to stick on a target it gives 75% movement speed for 3 seconds that's very very good.

 

What is it with the 3 seconds of speed being very very good? It's just 3 seconds and anyone who isn't a keyboard turner will barely notice it.

 

In a warzone there will without a doubt be multiple people attacking the same target and all this move does is make it easier to stick on those targets specially with the new speed utilities.

 

We don't have trouble sticking on an enemy, why is this so hard to understand? That was fixed with the 30m LS. And the new speed utility is a masterful utility that no one will take. The masterful utilities are already locked into either disjunction, fade or audacity (both of these should be default at this point, but w/e)+emersion, there is no room to take another utility.

 

Here are more examples to reinforce my point operatives rolling away all 3 specs.

 

Effective 7s CD vs 30s CD that will be used in the beginning of the fight for the extra burst ... yeah it's definitely going to help

 

Sorcs all 3 specs

 

Sorcs will have no trouble kiting us with PW.

 

Mercs all 3 specs

 

chaffe flarre + KB + enet = GG, as for the the heals they currently aren't an issue staying on top of so this will make no difference, and I only know 1 person who plays IO in PvP and I never played against him so can't speculate there.

 

Snipers if you can catch one out of cover and aren't stunned or rooted.

 

Very big if.

 

Any player attempting to get to an objective

 

I'll give you this one, only because they removed the only 30m direct damage ability for hatred.

 

Any player running towards los for heals

 

Overextend FTW, that's how you play the right way.

 

Great move to set up CC or neat tricks like jumping to a lower floor baiting a target or targets only to teleport to a ranged above.

 

Engaging combat on a target, stealth teleport to incoming help(off gcd) mez.

Teleporting to a target about to receive a huttball pass

The list can go on.

 

... ok this is just getting sad.

 

It's a good ability the 75% speed boost for 3 seconds is my fav part tbh

 

Other than dancing around keyboard turners, is there any real advantage to 3s of this? I rotate between taking the shiv speed and the extra DR on my operative and I promise, against good players it doesn't help at all.

[Iona_Var]

I like how a few weeks ago people were excited about the possibility of getting this move, and now that we have it they are doubting it's usefulness. It is a very useful ability. Yes deception will make better use of it than hatred and darkness will but it's still very useful. As for why you'd want want to use it in stealth, uh to cc someone? Or open up on them with spike? Stop a cap? There are plenty of reasons why you'd want to use this in stealth. It would be nice if they tied our extra burst(as pitiful as it'll still be) to another ability but over all this is a fairly nice ability for pve and pvp.