Has Your PvP Guild Made YOU a Better PvPer?

[tunnelhottie]

So , the Message I see consistently throughout the day , is Looking for a PvP Guild.

 

Which in my opinion is pretty hilarious since why the &*@! would you want to be in a guild without female healers is beyond me.

 

Anyways, So According to my BS Harbinger Statistics , there are 4-5 Guilds queing teams , Most of the 'PvP'(Conquest/Large) Guilds que for regs and are bad. Then there are guilds who mostly que solo ranked.

 

The BIG mystery to me is , Why are people in these 'PvP' Guilds , Do they secretly have female healers and I just don't know about it , do they give out free credits every week , is there some major ERP going on ?

 

I ask this because I have Never Ever , well thats a stretch I lied but still , Rarely do players in these 'PvP'(Conquest/Large) Guilds ever improve. Example , I'll see Person A from Guild B , 2 weeks later , he plays the same and by same I mean absolute garbage . No improvement whatsoever.

 

Before anyone ask , I Credit everything I do to Bacara . Except the bad things , Its mainly me being a *****.

 

What is YOUR Story?

[t-darko]

...

BS Harbinger Statistics

...

do you got statistics on your Bull ****

[tunnelhottie]

do you got statistics on your Bull ****

 

I usually take a nice dump , look at the paper after a good wipe and compute the data from there.

[jedcjedcjedc]

because I want people to que and talk strategy with! Unfortunately on JC they are all but extinct.

[DomiSotto]

It's less cumbersome to talk in the guild-chat rather than whisper.

 

On a serious note, I have only played in 3 people premade 2 times (save for PST server), maybe once in a full 4 people premade. But I often play with one other person. Doing the right thing when you play together is not that easy, but if you do keep playing together, eventually you get more aware of the other's play-style and get more successful as a unit. You also learn to be aware of another person, where s/he is at all times, etc. So, you might not better yourself, but improve a coordinated play with a guldie or three. And it is the coordinated play that wins the regs.

 

TL;DR: it's not a guild per se, it is playing together with the same people and learn group play rather than parallel play. That's why conquest guilds might appear poor, if they just fill in the numbers. On the other hand, experienced raiders in a premade given they gear up do very well, because they bring down stuff together a few nights a week.

Edited September 2, 2015 by DomiSotto

[ForceWelder]

My experience ...

 

It is not that you are any better. It is just that you can more quickly react. In Pugs you rely on typed conversation which you may or may not notice.

 

In a pre-made you likely will run with voice chat to make communication easier. The down side of that is, once you use voice, you tend to neglect informing your other 4 team mates what is going on and this can be bad if one of the pre-mades is on defense duty. As part of the pre-made you also tend to look at chat less as you become dependent on voice comms to get the tactical information you need.

 

We can talk about rotations and higher DPS / heals till the cows come home. But in a PVP environment, all of that goes out the window. With the large amount of CC in this game, rotations pretty much are pointless. Too many power hits have short critical activation windows that can be taken out with interrupts and stuns or various other CC options. In PVP it comes down to what you can cast and get away with. Anything that takes 2 seconds to cast you might as well give up on because any decent PVPer is going to prevent it from lighting off if they can do anything to prevent it.

 

Really what premade gives you is better odds. making you a better player ... not so much.

Edited September 2, 2015 by ForceWelder

[DomiSotto]

You don't have to rely exclusevly on chat. Save for Alderaan, either a visual or body count/guard's health bar is fairly easy to manage. Actually, if someone have good tips on where the visual is good on the off node in Alderaan, I'd appreciate it, because I keep running to the gap on the wall and jumping up to see where everyone is moving. Edited September 2, 2015 by DomiSotto

[mahoneygang]

On tofn i started out in of those megaguilds where I was a baddie, but one day I saw this premade of a rep guild called Sponsored by Karagga and decided to reroll rep side. They were willing to take me in and helped me improve, after 6 months, I was playing for them as a tank and beating some top teams in tofn.

Depending on the players in the pvp guild willing to help you out and your own attitude towards improving, pvp guilds are a great way to up your game.

[tunnelhottie]

You don't have to rely exclusevly on chat. Save for Alderaan, either a visual or body count/guard's health bar is fairly easy to manage. Actually, if someone have good tips on where the visual is good on the off node in Alderaan, I'd appreciate it, because I keep running to the gap on the wall and jumping up to see where everyone is moving.

 

I mean like I play a game get a random healer from some random PvP Guild and 2weeks later , I see the same random healer and he's still bad. How is this possible , is no one teaching people how to pvp in those guilds?

[DomiSotto]

In a Conquest guild? You can not know. I quit one such guild after I was told to by the GM shut up and not confuse people with the advanced stuff when I tried to explain how to gear to bolster properly. But that was the same guild that had one other person who joined on an alt, who PvP'd seriously and he mentored me ever since we've met.

 

A person who can teach PvP is rare, because s/he needs to have exceptional awareness, to not only do his/her thing but watch you and comment. I was pulled out of tight places, and calmly told whenever I did something wrong. he switched from co-heals to a tank to a DPS to make sure I could co-play with any role. he dueled me to teach me to kite. He doted me to teach me to cleanse. He played with and vs. He took me into Ops to show what awareness is (and told me what I was doing wrong there too, heh). He made and shared a few vids so I could see his field of vision in each zone. He made me try ranked to see the intensity.

 

And that's how I kind of, sort of was helped to get to even passable (in regs). I am exceptionally lucky.

Edited September 2, 2015 by DomiSotto

[Floplag]

All sarcasm, witticism, and trash talking aside, and i realize im likely falling into a troll trap here but oh well...

 

Personally, i have nothing again t groups aside from the feeling that premades don't belong against pugs. But that's moot, the game allows it, and most people are going to use it if they can to achieve better results and swing the odds in their favor, it simply its what it is.

 

The thing is this, playing in a group will help you get better at group play, which is to say groups strats etc.. assuming you actually use them. I'm not going to get into anything intended to insult anyone except to say that 90% of the people that say that's why they use premades in regs are not doing that. The way most use it is actually likely making them worse individually as they become dependent on the trinity crutches.

 

I would encourage any/all of you to go solo to learn how to play your own class without the crutches of protection/heals backing you up. I have never claimed to be the best, far from it, but i know playing solo made me better at my class, learning how it works, its strengths and weaknesses under various situations. ANY class can be a god with heals and protection, that isnt skill or knowledge.

 

If you are a FOTM jumper it wont matter, your class will be strong enough to carry you even with marginal skill, but if like me you are one of the idiotic masochistic few that refuses to do so and plays what you like, you will get better as a player playing solo. Once you have gotten to the point where you can actually be competitive without the crutches, group up again and see the improvement.

[tunnelhottie]

In a Conquest guild? You can not know. I quit one such guild after I was told to by the GM shut up and not confuse people with the advanced stuff when I tried to explain how to gear to bolster properly. But that was the same guild that had one other person who joined on an alt, who PvP'd seriously and he mentored me ever since we've met.

 

A person who can teach PvP is rare, because s/he needs to have exceptional awareness, to not only do his/her thing but watch you and comment. I was pulled out of tight places, and calmly told whenever I did something wrong. he switched from co-heals to a tank to a DPS to make sure I could co-play with any role. he dueled me to teach me to kite. He doted me to teach me to cleanse. He played with and vs. He took me into Ops to show what awareness is (and told me what I was doing wrong there too, heh). He made and shared a few vids so I could see his field of vision in each zone. He made me try ranked to see the intensity.

 

And that's how I kind of, sort of was helped to get to even passable (in regs). I am exceptionally lucky.

 

I can do that , But You'll have to hear my miserable voice and me using the C-word every minute . Then again I have no idea how play my class so.

 

All sarcasm, witticism, and trash talking aside, and i realize im likely falling into a troll trap here but oh well...

 

Personally, i have nothing again t groups aside from the feeling that premades don't belong against pugs. But that's moot, the game allows it, and most people are going to use it if they can to achieve better results and swing the odds in their favor, it simply its what it is.

 

The thing is this, playing in a group will help you get better at group play, which is to say groups strats etc.. assuming you actually use them. I'm not going to get into anything intended to insult anyone except to say that 90% of the people that say that's why they use premades in regs are not doing that. The way most use it is actually likely making them worse individually as they become dependent on the trinity crutches.

 

I would encourage any/all of you to go solo to learn how to play your own class without the crutches of protection/heals backing you up. I have never claimed to be the best, far from it, but i know playing solo made me better at my class, learning how it works, its strengths and weaknesses under various situations. ANY class can be a god with heals and protection, that isnt skill or knowledge.

 

If you are a FOTM jumper it wont matter, your class will be strong enough to carry you even with marginal skill, but if like me you are one of the idiotic masochistic few that refuses to do so and plays what you like, you will get better as a player playing solo. Once you have gotten to the point where you can actually be competitive without the crutches, group up again and see the improvement.

 

Regs are super boring , every 100 games you'll get a competitive fun game against good players .

Edited September 2, 2015 by tunnelhottie

[DomiSotto]

Perhaps you can check out a dictionary of English vulgar language to both increase your vocabulary and stand above the white noise of the PvP conversation. Or, perhaps try out this site:

 

http://www.museangel.net/insult.html

 

to switch from the official form of address in PvP (Y.F.M.) to something like Loggerheaded hedge-pig to show off that not only you are an exceptional DPS, but a gentleman as well.

 

Then again, chances are everyone has everyone else on ignore by now anyway.

Edited September 2, 2015 by DomiSotto

[Floplag]

Regs are super boring , every 100 games you'll get a competitive fun game against good players .

 

Thats not true at all, it really isnt, there are many close matches that come down to the final seconds in regs.

 

Besides, you imply that ranked are any different, they really aren't most of the time. It is true that the overall "skill" level is higher in ranked and you dont get the undergeared noobs doing dailies but most of the fights are still over rather quickly with a lot of 2-0 results so, very little difference really in terms of competitive games.

 

You talk like ranked is the pinnacle of this game, thats kinda laughable really. Most of the real "talent" is gone. How many really good players are actually left? Maybe half a dozen really good ones, if that? The rest of us are just the best of whats left. SWTOR is the NIT tourney of online gaming PVP.

 

What makes a player good anyway, rating?, thats laughable it really is, i know far too many players that are questionable at best with rating far over what they should have. It takes far more skill to be competitive playing classes outside the FOTMs. Check the elitism at the door

[tunnelhottie]

Thats not true at all, it really isnt, there are many close matches that come down to the final seconds in regs.

 

Besides, you imply that ranked are any different, they really aren't most of the time. It is true that the overall "skill" level is higher in ranked and you dont get the undergeared noobs doing dailies but most of the fights are still over rather quickly with a lot of 2-0 results so, very little difference really in terms of competitive games.

 

You talk like ranked is the pinnacle of this game, thats kinda laughable really. Most of the real "talent" is gone. How many really good players are actually left? Maybe half a dozen really good ones, if that? The rest of us are just the best of whats left. SWTOR is the NIT tourney of online gaming PVP.

 

What makes a player good anyway, rating?, thats laughable it really is, i know far too many players that are questionable at best with rating far over what they should have. It takes far more skill to be competitive playing classes outside the FOTMs. Check the elitism at the door

 

Ranked isn't a measure of skill and I only run marauder so if you think its FOTM then its FOTM. Thats the laughable part though , How can people be so bad in an easy game after 3 years.

 

Ranked does provide more semi-competitive games where you are guranteed not to have dumb arenas where 3 tanks and 1 healer can go up against 2 tanks and 2 healers.

 

Regs are boring , if a 4man premade with a healer or better yet a tank with decent coordination faces 8 dps on the other team which happens more often that not because people refuse to run heals. Its faceroll.

 

You can obviously choose to que solo in regs , Try that on a Marauder and try to get fewer than 6 deaths fighting in mid without a healer. Its lots of fun , trust me.

Edited September 2, 2015 by tunnelhottie

[Floplag]

Ranked isn't a measure of skill and I only run marauder so if you think its FOTM then its FOTM. Thats the laughable part though , How can people be so bad in an easy game after 3 years.

 

Ranked does provide more semi-competitive games where you are guranteed not to have dumb arenas where 3 tanks and 1 healer can go up against 2 tanks and 2 healers.

 

Regs are boring , if a 4man premade with a healer or better yet a tank with decent coordination faces 8 dps on the other team which happens more often that not because people refuse to run heals. Its faceroll.

 

You can obviously choose to que solo in regs , Try that on a Marauder and try to get fewer than 6 deaths fighting in mid without a healer. Its lots of fun , trust me.

 

No, i never said Mara was FOTM, it is however FAR better than it was at release of 3.0 and no good mara should be considered bottom tier.

 

How can people be bad after three years, really? Bad is bad, 100 years wont matter, you either get it, or you dont, pretty simple.

 

Ranked doesn't guarantee anything, especially in solo queue, see "trolls". Team queue yes, you guarantee that your team wont be idiots but that still says nothing about the other. The entire ELO system fails in principle, there are simply not enough players in queue for it to work. You are as likely to get a group with the same comp as you as you are a group with no tanks/heals... when there are only 2 groups in queue, you get what you get.

 

Boring or fun is subjective, your example illustrates well why premades dont belong in regs but it really doesnt matter. You are wrong to think all regs are like that or that all regs are boring, its simply not true. Personally i find FOTM classes boring. Having an iwin button is about as boring as it gets, why bother playing the game when there is no challenge? Obvisouly many people dont agree based on the sheer volume of them in the game currently.

 

I do understand your example though, as a Merc it is fun to make the FOTMs work for a living. I have solo queued almost exclusively since season 3, Sometimes im successful, sometimes im not, depends on who im up against and how much they hate me, lol. There isnt a whole lot i can do in a player versus premade setup, and ive literally seen 4 man teams focus me and not even case if they win or lose so, you are talking not only to the choir in this case but quite possibly the preacher.

[DomiSotto]

1. A lot of folks have not played for 3 years, and they entered just now after BioWARE changed the rules.

2. Most of people have insufficient motor reflexes and information-to-action speed necessary to keep up with the unforgiving intensity of the arenas.

3. The game requires combining 40+ buttons in creative ways to make the character efficient. That's objectively not a simple task, and requires fast adaptive problem-solving based on a fairly extensive body of knowledge and observation.

 

The gap between a talented player and an average person is very pronounced in a death match. For example, if I were try to click the same chest as you, you'd click it some fractions of a second faster (if not the whole second!). Now, if you can beat me in a simple one click, you will outpace me in a Death match within 1 GCD.

 

Seriously, if you do not understand this, and question why some people are not as good as others in some areas, maybe you might benefit from just trying to meet more people and get interested in their lives, interests, strengths and limitations. You are quite good at this game, if the validation is what you seek.

 

And, that's that. I am not responding again, because frankly I doubt you are searching for answers.

Edited September 2, 2015 by DomiSotto

[ForceWelder]

What makes a player good anyway, rating?, thats laughable it really is, i know far too many players that are questionable at best with rating far over what they should have. It takes far more skill to be competitive playing classes outside the FOTMs. Check the elitism at the door

 

There is some truth to this I suppose. The team with the merc or mando is probably going to lose regardless of how well the other team members perform. Just like the team with the more stealth has a slight advantage over the team that doesn't. Face a full team of stealth and they will pick off the opposing team one by one when they inevitably split up.

[Kaos_KidSWTOR]

From the perspective of my Vanguard and the PvP guild that i'm in on him, my actual skill in killing people hasn't risen. But my situational awareness has significantly risen, And we don't use VoIP that often for matches! Though, my Vanguard has gotten boring because it makes PvP way too easy, but not fun easy. My marauder on the other hand... my skill in kills goes up every time I play him, he's a class that I have a reactive attack strategy, I can act and react to each class and cripple them in whichever way I need to. And sooner or later, i'll be gearing my Merc up for PvP as IO and Arsenal (depending on the match type, IO for Regs, and Arsenal for Ranked). But, that is a whole nother can of worms to crack open.

[AlrikFassbauer]

1. A lot of folks have not played for 3 years, and they entered just now after BioWARE changed the rules.

2. Most of people have insufficient motor reflexes and information-to-action speed necessary to keep up with the unforgiving intensity of the arenas.

3. The game requires combining 40+ buttons in creative ways to make the character efficient. That's objectively not a simple task, and requires fast adaptive problem-solving based on a fairly extensive body of knowledge and observation.

 

The gap between a talented player and an average person is very pronounced in a death match. For example, if I were try to click the same chest as you, you'd click it some fractions of a second faster (if not the whole second!). Now, if you can beat me in a simple one click, you will outpace me in a Death match within 1 GCD.

 

Seriously, if you do not understand this, and question why some people are not as good as others in some areas, maybe you might benefit from just trying to meet more people and get interested in their lives, interests, strengths and limitations. You are quite good at this game, if the validation is what you seek.

 

And, that's that. I am not responding again, because frankly I doubt you are searching for answers.

 

Very well said ! One of the most serious posts here, imho !

[BrokenTangent]

I'm in a (relatively small) pvp guild partly because they are nice people who know their classes, and consistently win games. I'm also in a pvp guild because I don't particularly care about the pve aspect of the game, so it's nice to hang around and be friends with the players I see day in and day out in ranked and regs.

 

Another major reason is because, quite simply--grouping up with my guild mates lowers the chance of being grouped up with a mess of randoms that are awful at the game. I've had my fair share of being yelled at by sins in Strength gear when trying to politely point out what they're doing wrong, so now I simply prefer to play with guildies who I can trust to know what they're doing.

 

Have they made me better? Well, yes. For one, I main a sniper/merc, and otherwise wouldn't touch ranked because of the sheer stupidity of it. But, with guild mates who I'm familiar with, I'm able to have at ranked and genuinely do well, which I wouldn't be otherwise.

Edited September 3, 2015 by BrokenTangent

[ForceWelder]

I'm in a (relatively small) pvp guild partly because they are nice people who know their classes, and consistently win games. I'm also in a pvp guild because I don't particularly care about the pve aspect of the game, so it's nice to hang around and be friends with the players I see day in and day out in ranked and regs.

 

Another major reason is because, quite simply--grouping up with my guild mates lowers the chance of being grouped up with a mess of randoms that are awful at the game. I've had my fair share of being yelled at by sins in Strength gear when trying to politely point out what they're doing wrong, so now I simply prefer to play with guildies who I can trust to know what they're doing.

 

Have they made me better? Well, yes. For one, I main a sniper/merc, and otherwise wouldn't touch ranked because of the sheer stupidity of it. But, with guild mates who I'm familiar with, I'm able to have at ranked and genuinely do well, which I wouldn't be otherwise.

 

I mostly agree with you. Playing either a sniper or a merc, you have a reasonably good chance in group ranked because you are working with people who understand your strength and weaknesses and are more willing to assist you.

 

But neither class honestly have a place in solo rank. You get little to no help and more often than not your three team mates look at you like dead weight (assuming they don't try verbally abuse you and press you to leave prior to the match starting).

[wadecounty]

Just wanted to say I'm not in a pvp guild and almost all our healers are female, its awesome, you jelly

[Amaste]

I mean like I play a game get a random healer from some random PvP Guild and 2weeks later , I see the same random healer and he's still bad. How is this possible , is no one teaching people how to pvp in those guilds?

 

No, in general not a lot of people enjoy or want to teach others. Had a healer "guildie" a couple years back who wouldn't teach new people because he didn't want the possibility of losing his pvp spot.

[tunnelhottie]

No, in general not a lot of people enjoy or want to teach others. Had a healer "guildie" a couple years back who wouldn't teach new people because he didn't want the possibility of losing his pvp spot.

 

LOL , your healer guildie must be pretty bad , cause I know most of the top rated healers and they have no problem teaching others.