How much impact do cybernetics have on force-ability lorewise?

[temperjoke]

I was contemplating making a character that had large portions of his/her original body replaced with cybernetic parts, using some of the droid-like adaptable armor, and I got to thinking, how much affect would having 75% of your body replaced have on a force-user's powers?

[MadDutchman]

Honestly the old EU is inconsistent on this question and there is little in canon to confirm anything.

 

The best we can really say is it is significant, but not catastrophic based on events.

 

Based on midichlorian logic, the power loss would be directly proportional to the quantity of cybernetics. This however has not been confirmed to be how midichlorians actually work (to my knowledge).

[OathboundCoH]

During the Inquisitor storyline you fight a Darth who's implied to be at least half cybernetics/droid, so apparently if they have any impact on your force ability it's not insurmountable.

[Rhyltran]

I was contemplating making a character that had large portions of his/her original body replaced with cybernetic parts, using some of the droid-like adaptable armor, and I got to thinking, how much affect would having 75% of your body replaced have on a force-user's powers?

 

Lorewise it would be significant to have 75% of your body replaced but there has been force users who lost that much who have become powerful. If you have a character you're roleplaying who is a cyborg you can still roleplay being powerful. You'd just be stronger without the cybernetics. Vader had the potential to be 200% stronger than Sidious. He only ended up 85% as powerful as Sidious. That's a lot of lost potential but Vader was still strong enough to lift an AT-AT with one hand and crush it.

 

As for the Darth who's 50% cyborg? He may have been a member of the dark council if he didn't lose so many parts. It really doesn't matter too much to think about. Plus unless you're dealing with beings on Sidious level.. honestly you gain strength, speed, and stamina from cybernetics. Which can actually provide an edge and counteract some of the lost force potential. Darth Maul lost half his body and he still became a powerful Sith in his own right so really.. don't worry too much on it.

Edited August 27, 2015 by Rhyltran

[nimmerstil]

During the Inquisitor storyline you fight a Darth who's implied to be at least half cybernetics/droid, so apparently if they have any impact on your force ability it's not insurmountable.

 

As apprentice, the PC Inquisitor wipes the floor with a (high ranking) Darth once his cybernetic stuff is disabled. Could also mean his cybernetics significantly weakened his force ability.

Edited August 27, 2015 by nimmerstil

[Aeneas_Falco]

During the Inquisitor storyline you fight a Darth who's implied to be at least half cybernetics/droid, so apparently if they have any impact on your force ability it's not insurmountable.

 

Darth Vader was also a cyborg.

[OathboundCoH]

As apprentice, the PC Inquisitor wipes the floor with a (high ranking) Darth once his cybernetic stuff is disabled. Could also mean his cybernetics significantly weakened his force ability.

 

That it could, but that could also be attributed to any of his vital bodily functions no longer working. Figure if he's (at least) half cyborg and all those parts stop working, it means that very likely he's already dying regardless of your later actions. You just speed up the process.

Edited August 28, 2015 by OathboundCoH

[Trinid]

While the effect of cybernetics on raw Force ability is inconsistent at best in the EU, we know that cybernetics have a more... practical impact on certain abilities.

 

For example (citing word of god here), since both of Vader's arms were cybernetic, he couldn't use Force Lightning. The ability was there, but attempting to do so would royally screw up his suit and kill him in the process (as Palpatine demonstrated at the end of RotJ). Whether or not he could use tutaminis, which might also require organic hands, is debatable. The fact that his suit was specifically designed to deflect/absorb everything short of a saber hit seems to indicate that he couldn't.

 

I seem to recall Lucas saying that since the Force arises from life, cybernetics would diminish or outright sever one's connection to the Force. Anakin was conceived by the Force, he should have been the most powerful Force-user in galactic history, but getting cyborg'd up crippled his ability to wield the Force to the point where the Emperor easily out-matched him in terms of raw power. Unfortunately I can't find a specific citation for that quote, so take it with a grain of salt.

[Asheris]

I think I read in a book somehwere (think it was Luceno's "Darth Plagueis") that midichlorians are part of living cells, if you loose an arm those midichlorians die as a result making you weaker in the Force.

[SuperGrunt]

Well Anakin was said to have the highest Midichlorian count ever. So when he lost his limbs he was still stronger than most Jedi. However he did lose some of his strength. How much we aren't really sure about. However in the EU it was stated that he lost significant percentage of his body, and it had a significant effect on his strength that he was able to use. It was also said that Palpatine used taking parts of his body away as a punishment.

 

Before Mustafar he was cocky and arrogant. He thought he was stronger and better than everyone. After Mustafar he learned some humility and got more precise with his powers.

Edited August 28, 2015 by SuperGrunt

[Joachimthbear]

It may also be important that Dark Side power in particular is drawn from passions. Vader's suit isolated him from the outside world and from other people; his tactile senses were numbed and he could no longer breathe (and thus smell) unfiltered air, leaving him with reduced senses. That coupled with his position in the Empire and his overwhelming despair meant that for the longest time, the only things he could really feel passion in relation to were Obi-Wan, Palpatine and himself (all of whom he hated), and Padme. I think I remember reading part of a comic in which Vader reveals that his self-loathing is the main source of his power - it's stronger than anything else he can feel. A Sith who has many emotional connections and a full range of passions probably gains a broader range of powers in turn.

 

Ironically, given the tradition of cyborg Sith, a heavily cyborged-up individual who has replaced most of his/her natural senses with data recording devices might have an easy time achieving the sort of serenity that the Jedi often talk about; but I think that even then, the person's connection to the Force would be benumbed and weakened, making the Light Side harder to connect with.

Edited August 28, 2015 by Joachimthbear

[Trinid]

It may also be important that Dark Side power in particular is drawn from passions. Vader's suit isolated him from the outside world and from other people; his tactile senses were numbed and he could no longer breathe (and thus smell) unfiltered air, leaving him with reduced senses. That coupled with his position in the Empire and his overwhelming despair meant that for the longest time, the only things he could really feel passion in relation to were Obi-Wan, Palpatine and himself (all of whom he hated), and Padme. I think I remember reading part of a comic in which Vader reveals that his self-loathing is the main source of his power - it's stronger than anything else he can feel. A Sith who has many emotional connections and a full range of passions probably gains a broader range of powers in turn.

 

Ironically, given the tradition of cyborg Sith, a heavily cyborged-up individual who has replaced most of his/her natural senses with data recording devices might have an easy time achieving the sort of serenity that the Jedi often talk about; but I think that even then, the person's connection to the Force would be benumbed and weakened, making the Light Side harder to connect with.

 

There is a certain irony in people who fear death to the degree the Banist Sith do crippling their connection to the Living Force through cybernetics.

Edited August 29, 2015 by Trinid

[Krimlord]

There is a certain irony in people who fear death to the degree the Banist Sith do crippling their connection to the Living Force through cybernetics.

 

Video games have shown anakin using lightning from his cybernetic hand, like in the old episode 3 game. But it isn't canon so I suppose it's just an inconsistency.

 

Regardless. It is a real pity if someone can't use lightning because of a cybernetic hand alone, and only from the one remaining living hand itself. Then I guess an inquisitor with small cybernetics would already be so impaired. I had a sith I've long since wanted to have a cybernetic hand, but that alone kills his ability it would seem... which feels frustratingly limiting.

 

I distinctly remember Galen Marek using force lightning too, and masses of it, as a cyborg. Which doesn't make sense.

 

Come to think of it 'Luke' should've never been able to reach his full potential in the EU since he had a cybernetic hand.

Edited August 30, 2015 by Krimlord

[Joachimthbear]

Regardless. It is a real pity if someone can't use lightning because of a cybernetic hand alone, and only from the one remaining living hand itself. Then I guess an inquisitor with small cybernetics would already be so impaired. I had a sith I've long since wanted to have a cybernetic hand, but that alone kills his ability it would seem... which feels frustratingly limiting.

 

I distinctly remember Galen Marek using force lightning too, and masses of it, as a cyborg. Which doesn't make sense.

As I understand it the issue is just that the lightning originates from your organic body (you can't make it just appear where you want). That's a problem for Vader's suit, since the lightning has no way out, but not necessarily for all cybernetics. You could probably have a hand that's specifically designed to conduct and project the lightning. If your cyborg's mechanical parts are properly insulated, it would presumably be fine.

[Krimlord]

As I understand it the issue is just that the lightning originates from your organic body (you can't make it just appear where you want). That's a problem for Vader's suit, since the lightning has no way out, but not necessarily for all cybernetics. You could probably have a hand that's specifically designed to conduct and project the lightning. If your cyborg's mechanical parts are properly insulated, it would presumably be fine.

 

I just need it to make sense from lore perspective. If say, an inquisitor gets his hand chopped off. He must adapt. And unlike anakin who relied on force pushes shoves and chokes who needed ordinary cybernetics. But with an inquisitor if he could implement those adaptations to his limb then I just got a way to explain still having the lighting ability...

 

Only thing is I don't think such modifications have ever happened in star wars.

[Joachimthbear]

I just need it to make sense from lore perspective. If say, an inquisitor gets his hand chopped off. He must adapt. And unlike anakin who relied on force pushes shoves and chokes who needed ordinary cybernetics. But with an inquisitor if he could implement those adaptations to his limb then I just got a way to explain still having the lighting ability...

 

Only thing is I don't think such modifications have ever happened in star wars.

If it helps, Vader was a rather unusual case. His suit had to fully enclose his body to protect him from the atmosphere outside, making it harder to work around any limitations. Plus, I'm pretty sure Sidious purposefully designed the suit to limit Vader's abilities so he would never be quite powerful enough to overthrow his master. Galen Marek, who you mentioned using lightning as a cyborg and who didn't have those limitations, might be exactly the proof that it is normally possible.

[Krimlord]

If it helps, Vader was a rather unusual case. His suit had to fully enclose his body to protect him from the atmosphere outside, making it harder to work around any limitations. Plus, I'm pretty sure Sidious purposefully designed the suit to limit Vader's abilities so he would never be quite powerful enough to overthrow his master. Galen Marek, who you mentioned using lightning as a cyborg and who didn't have those limitations, might be exactly the proof that it is normally possible.

 

I heard about him purposelessly making his cybernetics especially vulnerable to lightning or something, to keep him at bay. As unprovable as that may be. Galen Marek, seems like a good enough example, for while Vader was limited in lightning Galen was not. Both having cybernetics and way more than just on the hand.

[nimmerstil]

That it could, but that could also be attributed to any of his vital bodily functions no longer working. Figure if he's (at least) half cyborg and all those parts stop working, it means that very likely he's already dying regardless of your later actions. You just speed up the process.

 

Possible, yes.

 

---

 

In the movies Midichlorian-count is implicated to be related to ones connection to the force, it would be reasonable to assume that having less of them throughout the body would reduce that connection. But SW stories tend to be inconsistent when it comes to Force related mechanics and their explanation and this is one thing I expect to be at a writer's discretion.