Nice Job Breaking It, Hero

[CrutchCricket]

So the eight classes are the biggest ******es in the galaxy and the MVPs for their faction. Except when Zakuul rolls into town, none of this matters apparently.

 

But did we make it worse? It's like the Rebellion defeating the Empire and then the Yuuzhan Vong roll in. You'd think a galaxy with Sidious, Vader, Thrawn and multiple Death Stars and Super Star Destroyers would've done a better job resisting the invaders.

 

So how about in this era? What if we hadn't killed the Star Cabal, the Voidwolf, Darth Malgus (inb4 "he's alive"), the Dread Masters, the Revanites and so on, would each side have been better able to resist the Fallen Empire? Obviously two factions already weakened by war vs the same factions fresh is no contest. But I'm talking about the elimination of key assets.

 

Now some of these assets clearly rebelled and formed their own third parties, but still if they were active when Zakuul hit it might not have been as much of a curbstomp, no? Obviously if the Knight hadn't stopped Vitiate, none of this would matter (assuming Vitiate is not Volkarion). But what about the others?

 

Thanaton would've been pretty useless and we're better at his job than he ever was. Same with Baras. But what about the rest?

[Leklor]

Well, in hindsight, sure, the galaxy would have been able too resist the Eternal Empire. But only united and only before the war. And Vitiate/Valkorion would never had let that pass. He wanted a war and some of the player classes happened to be pawns in his game. If they hadn't done what they did in their story, someone else would have done it because Valkorion would have found a way to make them do it.

The massive loss of life, equipement and other ressource during the war, which brought both factions to its knees, wasn't something the players are responsible.

Did the players contribute in weakening the galaxy in face of the Eternal Empire invasion? Yup. Could they have not done it? I don't think it was avoidable.

 

That's my take on it anyway.

[Abvora]

Honestly, the only ones I could conceivably blame are the Bounty Hunter, the Trooper, and the Warrior.

 

Knight: "Kills" Vitiate, probably at least temporarily delaying his plans, and stops Darth Angral from using a bunch of planet-destroying weapons on the Republic. Solely positive outcome.

 

Consular: Brings the Rift Alliance to the Republic, strengthening them. Also stops Parkanus from infecting the entire Jedi Order with his plague. Solely positive outcome.

 

Smuggler: Doesn't really do anything major, except take over half the underworld. Neutral outcome.

 

Inquisitor: Takes out Thanaton and proceeds to do his job better than he ever could. Neutral-positive outcome.

 

Agent: Takes out the Star Cabal, who wanted to get rid of all Force Users in the galaxy. If they'd succeeded it would have been a major problem when the Eternal Empire came calling. Solely positive outcome.

 

The Trooper and the Warrior's actions in Act II directly led to the war restarting, and the Bounty Hunter removing Janarus from power opened the way for Suresh to become Supreme Chancellor. And we all know how competent Suresh is.

 

While the other five contribute to the war, these three are the reason it started and accelerated. And even taking that into account, I don't wholly blame them--the Bounty Hunter was acting out of self-preservation, and the Trooper and Warrior were just following orders. I agree with the posted above--most of what's happened is caused by Vitiate manipulating people into doing what he wants. If it hadn't been the PCs, it would have been someone else.

Edited August 7, 2015 by Abvora

[CrutchCricket]

Honestly, the only ones I could conceivably blame are the Bounty Hunter, the Trooper, and the Warrior.

 

Knight: "Kills" Vitiate, probably at least temporarily delaying his plans, and stops Darth Angral from using a bunch of planet-destroying weapons on the Republic. Solely positive outcome.

I don't think it's so clear cut. Vitiate had to be stopped, we agree. And Angral as well. But what about all the superweapons we destroyed? What if we still had the Power Guards or the Shock Drum, or the Desolator/Planet Prison? Get Zakuul to commit a large number of Forces to some backwater planet, fire up the Planet Prison and you've taken a legion out of the war with the flip of a button. Or deploy the Death Mark and watch the Starkiller wannabes go bye-bye.

 

Consular: Brings the Rift Alliance to the Republic, strengthening them. Also stops Parkanus from infecting the entire Jedi Order with his plague. Solely positive outcome.

Mostly yes. Although if Vitiate is not affiliated with Zakuul, the First Son and the Children of the Emperor might do more damage against the Fallen Empire than the Jedi and other sleeper agents would normally.

 

Smuggler: Doesn't really do anything major, except take over half the underworld. Neutral outcome.

You're forgetting the Voidwolf. The army he puts together breaks up shortly after his death. With him still in charge however, it might've remained a force to be reckoned with. With the smuggler in charge, even the loose coalition that remains may break apart as daily business continues, leading to a less organized underworld.

 

Agent: Takes out the Star Cabal, who wanted to get rid of all Force Users in the galaxy. If they'd succeeded it would have been a major problem when the Eternal Empire came calling. Solely positive outcome.

Really? You know Zakuul has Force users as well, right? And unless they're extragalactic like the Yuuzhan Vong, chances are the Star Cabal knew something about them. Remember, even corrupt as it is these days, the Star Cabal isn't killing Force users for lulz. Their purpose is still saving the galaxy for the common man. Don't think they'd take to kindly to Volkarion's shenanigans. Hell we might even find out the Star Cabal was preparing for Zakuul from the start. That'd be a real kick in the teeth.

 

The Trooper and the Warrior's actions in Act II directly led to the war restarting, and the Bounty Hunter removing Janarus from power opened the way for Suresh to become Supreme Chancellor. And we all know how competent Suresh is.

I forget the specifics of these ones but I imagine they all take out valuable assets from both sides. Assets that could've been useful against Zakuul. That's my point, looking at stuff we've destroyed that would've come in handy and trying to figure out if it's better or worse that they're not around. I'm not siding with the Republic or the Empire here. I'm trying to see how many things were lost that might've been important or even crucial in preventing the galaxy's apparent curbstomp by the Fallen Empire.

 

Some stuff outside the class stories:

Malgus and his cloaked armada- I trust the advantages of these are self-explanatory.

Sel-Makor- Volkarion doesn't posess people like Vitate does as far as we know, but what if we could trick him or his sons into venturing out into the Dark Heart? One of the things that's kind of glossed over when we travel there is that anyone who enters the Nightmare Lands is supposed to slowly lose their sanity.

The Dread Masters- don't know that much about these guys but given how many OPs are related to them I'd say they'd be formidable opponent to the invaders.

Revanites- Ok we really had to kill Revan but what about some of his stuff? The Rakata tech-implanted warriors from Maanan for example? Or the Foundry, from the main game?

[SithKoriandr]

The problem is, if they didn't take out what they did, one side would be down. The only way they both could make it is if they teamed up, which isn't easy to do. Marr teaming up with the Republic had to use his own ships/army because the rest of the Dark Council wouldn't do it.

 

Jedi while a bit less stubborn are still stubborn. Look what they think of the Voss. Non Dark Force Users and yet they're still weary of them because they see the Force differently then them. Even with the Consular's approval they're weary of them, and they're willing to give the Consular a seat on the Council.

 

So, that leaves going for survival as Sith don't really care for truces (or the Empire really). So both sides were going to weaken each other and leave an opening for the newest Empire to show up.

[Canareth]

Darth Baras causes an unbelievable amount of damage with his power play. With and without the Warrior.

[adormitul]

I don't think it's so clear cut. Vitiate had to be stopped, we agree. And Angral as well. But what about all the superweapons we destroyed? What if we still had the Power Guards or the Shock Drum, or the Desolator/Planet Prison? Get Zakuul to commit a large number of Forces to some backwater planet, fire up the Planet Prison and you've taken a legion out of the war with the flip of a button. Or deploy the Death Mark and watch the Starkiller wannabes go bye-bye.

 

There is no reason those do not still exist in your canon but the Zakuul empire still conquered it.

Mostly yes. Although if Vitiate is not affiliated with Zakuul, the First Son and the Children of the Emperor might do more damage against the Fallen Empire than the Jedi and other sleeper agents would normally.

 

Well there a certain condition there does it not to be a positive thing?

You're forgetting the Voidwolf. The army he puts together breaks up shortly after his death. With him still in charge however, it might've remained a force to be reckoned with. With the smuggler in charge, even the loose coalition that remains may break apart as daily business continues, leading to a less organized underworld.

Yep but then again was it really that tight before?

 

Really? You know Zakuul has Force users as well, right? And unless they're extragalactic like the Yuuzhan Vong, chances are the Star Cabal knew something about them. Remember, even corrupt as it is these days, the Star Cabal isn't killing Force users for lulz. Their purpose is still saving the galaxy for the common man. Don't think they'd take to kindly to Volkarion's shenanigans. Hell we might even find out the Star Cabal was preparing for Zakuul from the start. That'd be a real kick in the teeth.

If they are from the rishi maze then yes extragalactic.

 

 

I forget the specifics of these ones but I imagine they all take out valuable assets from both sides. Assets that could've been useful against Zakuul. That's my point, looking at stuff we've destroyed that would've come in handy and trying to figure out if it's better or worse that they're not around. I'm not siding with the Republic or the Empire here. I'm trying to see how many things were lost that might've been important or even crucial in preventing the galaxy's apparent curbstomp by the Fallen Empire.

It was a war a all out war they where enemies to each other so there is that there was no Zakuul to consider.

 

Some stuff outside the class stories:

Malgus and his cloaked armada- I trust the advantages of these are self-explanatory.

Sel-Makor- Volkarion doesn't posess people like Vitate does as far as we know, but what if we could trick him or his sons into venturing out into the Dark Heart? One of the things that's kind of glossed over when we travel there is that anyone who enters the Nightmare Lands is supposed to slowly lose their sanity.

The Dread Masters- don't know that much about these guys but given how many OPs are related to them I'd say they'd be formidable opponent to the invaders.

Revanites- Ok we really had to kill Revan but what about some of his stuff? The Rakata tech-implanted warriors from Maanan for example? Or the Foundry, from the main game?

The Dread Masters wanted to rule over everybody after they where saved by the Sith empire. They are ungreateful *****s that would not help anyone.

Also this is about your canon those things can still be yours but even so it will not help you will right?

[Callaron]

Inquisitor: Takes out Thanaton and proceeds to do his job better than he ever could. Neutral-positive outcome.

 

Positive in the long term. Short term it was very damaging IMO. Their throwdown wasted tons of Imperial lives, and the political maneuvering by Zash cost several powerful Sith Lords (like Skotia) their lives too. Not to mention her own.

 

All of those resources could've been devoted to fighting the Republic. It's been awhile since I've played through the Inquisitor's storyline, so there are probably a few things that I'm overlooking, but I thought it was one of the storylines where you were more focused on fighting your own side rather than the enemy. (Same deal with the Sith Warrior)

 

The Bounty hunter at least takes out a lot of Republic targets (especially while working for Darth Tormen), and in the storylines you deal with a lot of neutral scumbags that don't really matter to either side.

[Darkelefantos]

The Dread Masters- don't know that much about these guys but given how many OPs are related to them I'd say they'd be formidable opponent to the invaders.

The Dread Masters served Vitiate alone and respected no power but his, and without him, they ran amok across the galaxy, killing hundreds and inciting conflict everywhere. They would have been formidable opponents to the invaders, but in the end, it was impossible to keep them around for that long.

Or the Foundry, from the main game?

If I recall this correctly, the technology of the Foundry was incorporated into Malgus's space station. Which he blew up.

[Darth_Wicked]

If I recall this correctly, the technology of the Foundry was incorporated into Malgus's space station. Which he blew up.

 

Courtesy of the Schism Collective, led by Arkis Wode. I seem to always kill him.