New image from the gameplay trailer coming tomorrow ( POTENTIAL SPOILERS )

[Darth_Advent]

That's rather disappointing no simply because I admired Doug Bradley's vocal presence but because I much prefer the original summary for Vitiate's motives. Up until now he was a layered, twisted interpretation of a common transhumanist desire: Freedom from death and the constraints of time to do and be whatever he wanted at his own pace. The thematically appropriate evil of this derives from his willingness to deprive all others' of life to save himself.

 

With this revelation that no his motive all along actually was, "I'm gonna rule the universe with da REEL super empire and be the ultra king 8D" I almost feel like the victim of a prank. I honestly hope there's some 11th hour post-twist that reverses that.

[Darth_Wicked]

* snip *

 

There's a couple of lines that go like this:

 

Darth Marr: Your constant silence throughout our history. "THIS" was your distraction?

 

Valkorion: "THIS" was my focus. (...)

 

"THIS" being the Eternal Empire. Doesn't get any clearer than that.

Edited August 6, 2015 by Darth_Wicked

[Pt_k]

There's a couple of lines that go like this:

 

Darth Marr: Your constant silence throughout our history. "THIS" was your distraction?

 

Valkorion: "THIS" was my focus. (...)

 

"THIS" being the Eternal Empire. Doesn't get any clearer than that.

 

We were means to an end. That's all we ever were. Nothing more than that. The empire was his failure. However, he knew even in failure, it wouldn't stop him. Zakuul was his long lasting success. He's more powerful than any of us can possibly imagine.

 

I still can't believe all the work we did, all the killing, all the sacrifice....was for nothing. It was all planned from the start and we're nothing to this guy in failure or success.

[Leklor]

There's a couple of lines that go like this:

 

Darth Marr: Your constant silence throughout our history. "THIS" was your distraction?

 

Valkorion: "THIS" was my focus. (...)

 

"THIS" being the Eternal Empire. Doesn't get any clearer than that.

 

Indeed, I listened a few more time to the datamined line after my post.

Now I'm wondering. Who is the real one of the two? Is it Vitiate who has become Valkorion? Or was it Valkorion who masqueraded as Vitiate? Who is the original body? The alleged pure-blood Sith named Tenebrae? Valkorion? Another one entirely?

[Darth_Wicked]

Indeed, I listened a few more time to the datamined line after my post.

Now I'm wondering. Who is the real one of the two? Is it Vitiate who has become Valkorion? Or was it Valkorion who masqueraded as Vitiate? Who is the original body? The alleged pure-blood Sith named Tenebrae? Valkorion? Another one entirely?

 

Unknown really.

 

It should be noted that he says the Eternal Empire will surpass "all [his] previous works", as in, plural. Taking into account we're only aware of the Sith Empire prior to the Eternal one, I guess Vitiate / Valkorion is probably far older than we expected, perhaps as old as life or the Force itself.

 

Right now, the possibilities are endless.

[Leklor]

Unknown really.

 

It should be noted that he says the Eternal Empire will surpass "all [his] previous works", as in, plural. Taking into account we're only aware of the Sith Empire prior to the Eternal one, I guess Vitiate / Valkorion is probably far older than we expected, perhaps as old as life or the Force itself.

 

Right now, the possibilities are endless.

 

There is also the nature of the "Eternal Throne" Valk is heard refering more than once. He claims it can reshape the galaxy. Could it be the third Rakata factory? The one that can Xenoform entire planets?

Silly theory but: What if Valkorion/Vitiate is a former slave to the Rakata (Even a Force Hound but I doubt the concept existed before 2013's Dawn of the Jedi) who survived the collapse of the Infinite Empire, pilfering Force-reliant Rakata tech in a gambit to reach the level of power he now wields?

That would bring the Rakata and their legacy back in the foreground, though you could agree Forged Alliance already did that, although specifically in regards to the Star Forge.

[Diviciacus]

Unknown really.

 

It should be noted that he says the Eternal Empire will surpass "all [his] previous works", as in, plural. Taking into account we're only aware of the Sith Empire prior to the Eternal one, I guess Vitiate / Valkorion is probably far older than we expected, perhaps as old as life or the Force itself.

 

I hate to get into yet another grammatical argument with you, but the Sith Empire as a whole is neither technically Vitiate's work, nor what he means by "works." (Although its modern form certainly can be counted among them.)

 

Every single thing he's ever done to further his power counts as a work. Hence, having done more than one thing ever over the past 1500 years, he has many "works." Tricking Revan into trying to operate the Temple of Sacrifice is a "work." Allowing the Knight to slay his physical body so that he may be unfettered by flesh is another "work."

 

The Eternal Empire - If any of this is even true - would be, to use a literary term, Vitiate's mangum opus: literally, his "Great Work."

 

There is also the nature of the "Eternal Throne" Valk is heard refering more than once. He claims it can reshape the galaxy. Could it be the third Rakata factory? The one that can Xenoform entire planets?

Silly theory but: What if Valkorion/Vitiate is a former slave to the Rakata (Even a Force Hound but I doubt the concept existed before 2013's Dawn of the Jedi) who survived the collapse of the Infinite Empire, pilfering Force-reliant Rakata tech in a gambit to reach the level of power he now wields?

That would bring the Rakata and their legacy back in the foreground, though you could agree Forged Alliance already did that, although specifically in regards to the Star Forge.

 

It's certainly a possibility, given the screenshot from Massively/Dulfy of the Defender alongside a Terminus-class destroyer where literally hundreds of Eternal Empire ships pour out of a nebula. If the third great Rakata factory is indeed capable of reshaping a planet, it would be child's play to rebuild entire planets out of materials necessary to fuel that kind of construction. Or worse, xenoform a planet specifically to grow armies.

Edited August 6, 2015 by Diviciacus

[Darth_Wicked]

There is also the nature of the "Eternal Throne" Valk is heard refering more than once. He claims it can reshape the galaxy. Could it be the third Rakata factory? The one that can Xenoform entire planets?

Silly theory but: What if Valkorion/Vitiate is a former slave to the Rakata (Even a Force Hound but I doubt the concept existed before 2013's Dawn of the Jedi) who survived the collapse of the Infinite Empire, pilfering Force-reliant Rakata tech in a gambit to reach the level of power he now wields?

That would bring the Rakata and their legacy back in the foreground, though you could agree Forged Alliance already did that, although specifically in regards to the Star Forge.

 

I was thinking of the Celestials, but that could work too.

 

Funnily enough, I theorized last year that the Rishi Maze had been created by the Infinite Empire, with the help of that Star Forge. It was a WIP for them, a galaxy with new beings, new cultures, new civilizations, for them to conquer further down the road.

 

I hate to get into yet another grammatical argument with you, but the Sith Empire as a whole is neither technically Vitiate's work, nor what he means by "works." (Although its modern form certainly can be counted among them.)

 

Every single thing he's ever done to further his power counts as a work. Hence, having done more than one thing ever over the past 1500 years, he has many "works." Tricking Revan into trying to operate the Temple of Sacrifice is a "work." Allowing the Knight to slay his physical body so that he may be unfettered by flesh is another "work."

 

The Eternal Empire - If any of this is even true - would be, to use a literary term, Vitiate's mangum opus: literally, his "Great Work."

 

That's another possibility I guess but IMO, whenever he uses the word "works", he's referring to something on a massive scale, presumably on par with the Eternal Empire, for example. The only thing I can think of right now is the Sith Empire he came to build, following the Great Hyperspace War.

 

Being reawakened / resurrected / revived on Yavin 4 pales in comparison to the challenge of building from the ground up a new Empire -- presumably twice.

 

Also, the Jedi Knight sley another vessel housing the Voice of the Emperor, NOT his true body. The latter was presumably moved elsewhere by the Imperial Guard, following the showdown in the Dark Temple.

 

On another note, it was NEVER intended for the Knight to even defeat the Voice back then. Hard to qualify that one as a "work". In fact, the Knight prevented the Emperor from completing his "greatest work", which was the ritual that would consume all life in the galaxy.

Edited August 6, 2015 by Darth_Wicked

[Diviciacus]

Also, the Jedi Knight sley another vessel housing the Voice of the Emperor, NOT his true body. The latter was presumably moved elsewhere by the Imperial Guard, following the showdown in the Dark Temple.

Strictly speaking, the Voice of the Emperor is the poor sot who has been dominated body and mind to serve as Vitiate's physical form. His true body, after more than 1,500 years, is likely long since turned to dust.

 

 

 

Remember how Zash tried to force her consciousness into the Inquisitor's body? How far out of the realm of possibility is it that Vitiate learned/invented that ritual and perfected it first?

 

 

Anyway.

 

Failing that, of course you are definitely correct in reiterating what is stated in game. I think, but am not sure, that it is the Hand who tells the Warrior that Vitiate's body is a closely guarded secret. On Yavin, at any rate, Marr tells the Knight that they only slew Vitiate's "physical form." So which is right? Did the Knight kill his body, or only his then-Voice?

 

I believe that Vitiate's original physical body still existing is a lie, and that he is forced to jump from Voice to Voice to keep a physical body. After all, when the Knight kills whoever they kill, the Vitiate once again disappears from the galactic stage for three years. Did the Knight perhaps throw a wrench into his plans by killing his Voice without a backup Voice to jump into?

 

On another note, it was NEVER intended for the Knight to even defeat the Voice back then. Hard to qualify that one as a "work". In fact, the Knight prevented the Emperor from completing his "greatest work", which was the ritual that would consume all life in the galaxy.

 

 

 

It's true that the person the Knight slays in the Dark Temple is never explicitly stated to be the Voice of the Emperor (doing so would give away Warrior spoilers at minimum), but it does seem logical that that person was the Voice. We do, of course, have only circumstantial evidence.

 

However, the Knight never did stop Vitiate's endgame. Only delay it. The Knight thought they stopped Vitiate, just like they thought they killed him.

 

The Knight, in his/her hubris, did neither.

 

 

Edited August 7, 2015 by Diviciacus

[Darth_Advent]

But how is building the Eternal Empire a greater work than sucking out the souls of the whole Galaxy to become an eternal and limitless consciousness?

 

Why go through the trouble of trying that if he was just going to reshape the Galaxy into the Zakuul image anyhow? Did he just choose not to mention he'd spare Zakuul and let them fill the vacuum when the rest of... life itself was sucked dry? What's the point of building a monument to his own ego like that if in the end he was supposed to transcend the need to be validated through political power?

 

It just doesn't add up. I don't even know if the writers have figured out how to make it add up yet. Either they're playing it entirely by ear or somebody's hiding the biggest twist since "I am you father."

[Leklor]

But how is building the Eternal Empire a greater work than sucking out the souls of the whole Galaxy to become an eternal and limitless consciousness?

 

Why go through the trouble of trying that if he was just going to reshape the Galaxy into the Zakuul image anyhow? Did he just choose not to mention he'd spare Zakuul and let them fill the vacuum when the rest of... life itself was sucked dry? What's the point of building a monument to his own ego like that if in the end he was supposed to transcend the need to be validated through political power?

 

It just doesn't add up. I don't even know if the writers have figured out how to make it add up yet. Either they're playing it entirely by ear or somebody's hiding the biggest twist since "I am you father."

 

To Valkorion, it's not about political power, it's about creating something that can outlast him. And since he is immortal, it means something that will never crumble. It's indeed ego. Being immortal is nice and all, but if you leave nothing behind, then, to an narcissist like him, what's the point?

It's likely, in hindsight, that he was planning to use his ritual to clean the galaxy preparing for the inhabitants of the Eternal Empire to spread in the newly emptied galaxy. If the Eternal Throne is the third Rakata factory, then xenoforming the now lifeless planets in newly inhabitable worlds would probably be child play.

 

We can only wait for release to hope beginning to understand what he wanted to do.

[Pt_k]

From a game standpoint his comprehension of the universe is beyond our minds. He knows what's going on everywhere, I believe that the whole cleansing the galaxy of life ritual was being done because the empire failed to take on his vision and the republic was slowing his plans. He has other ideas in motion to make sure he reached his....well goals.

 

It adds up to me. We failed. We didn't accomplish what he wanted or build the vision in his mind. What better than to clear the board and go back to something that you have successfully built into an ever lasting empire.