Nemeses Posted July 23, 2015 Share Posted July 23, 2015 (edited) Just back into game after a long time out was wondering what's the best PvP gear to get for vanguard tactics build I have full Obroan gear from level 55. .....and which mods etc are best fitted cheers! Edited July 23, 2015 by Nemeses Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KevMeup Posted July 24, 2015 Share Posted July 24, 2015 I use all power, surge to 500 and alacrity for the rest (around 4-5%). No accuracy. No Crit. I do see misses sometimes (maybe 1 per match I notice), but I get 900k+ damage in almost every reg match, so I'm hesitant to lower my alacrity any. I'd go Aim for augs, power being just about an equal choice. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KevMeup Posted July 24, 2015 Share Posted July 24, 2015 I'd also want to add, that judging by the sustained damage recommendations for PVE: 198s: 4950 DPS | 4201 (6xAug) Aim | 1722 Power | 442 Critical | 302 (1xAug) Surge | 568 (4xAug) Alacrity | 756 (3xAug) 192s: 4550 DPS | 3950 (6xAug) Aim | 1638 Power | 345 Critical | 267 (3xAug) Surge | 496 (1xAug) Alacrity | 763 (4xAug) A higher crit (up to 270), lower surge (as low as 300) might give you a bit better sustained damage for longer fights in PVP. Those 14k hits are pretty addicting though, so I personally couldn't give it up and I plan to stick with my setup of 0/500. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nemeses Posted July 27, 2015 Author Share Posted July 27, 2015 (edited) Thanks for replies guys. Surprised with all links there is none showing their gear that they wearing, with all mods/aug etc, and in fact no real PvP builds out there,! Edited July 27, 2015 by Nemeses Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zoom_VI Posted July 27, 2015 Share Posted July 27, 2015 You shouldn't be taking alacrity. Ideally you would only take surge, but the DR on surge is a pain past 75%. Once you hit that point it's better to go for accuracy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KevMeup Posted July 27, 2015 Share Posted July 27, 2015 You shouldn't be taking alacrity. Ideally you would only take surge, but the DR on surge is a pain past 75%. Once you hit that point it's better to go for accuracy. The DR on Surge hits in super heavy at 71% (400 surge). I do 500 surge for good measure and just hit a sage for 17k yesterday, so I think I'm covered. In 3.2 Alacrity was buffed considerably, it's now as valuable as surge for sustained damage but doesn't have the horrible DR. Alacrity is the scaling stat for increasing all output on all classes. Accuracy will keep some misses from happening. For AP, if I miss my biggest hit (energy burst) it doesn't spend the stacks in my testing. So there is very little risk if I miss now and then. If you do want accuracy in your gear(not a bad idea), I'd shave off 1 piece of Surge and 1 piece of alacrity for it. You'll still be above the DR on Surge (430ish) and you'll have 160ish accuracy and almost 4% alacrity. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zoom_VI Posted July 27, 2015 Share Posted July 27, 2015 (edited) The DR on Surge hits in super heavy at 71% (400 surge). I do 500 surge for good measure and just hit a sage for 17k yesterday, so I think I'm covered. In 3.2 Alacrity was buffed considerably, it's now as valuable as surge for sustained damage but doesn't have the horrible DR. Alacrity is the scaling stat for increasing all output on all classes. Accuracy will keep some misses from happening. For AP, if I miss my biggest hit (energy burst) it doesn't spend the stacks in my testing. So there is very little risk if I miss now and then. If you do want accuracy in your gear(not a bad idea), I'd shave off 1 piece of Surge and 1 piece of alacrity for it. You'll still be above the DR on Surge (430ish) and you'll have 160ish accuracy and almost 4% alacrity. 1) You don't care about EB missing because as per the thread title, this thread is about PvP. Player's don't have base F/T resistance, and the only things that do cause F/T resistance are all high potency effects. You take accuracy because having a HiB miss sucks and can ruin a kill attempt. 2) Because this is PvP we care far more about burst.* The DR curve may start at 71%, but it's not until 75% that the curve becomes sharp enough that it becomes useful to stop taking more surge. 3) Alacrity is weak in PvP becomes you simply cannot ever get enough constant uptime on a target to make alacrity see major value. The only specs that get value out of alacrity in PvP are dot based specs because alacrity makes their dots tick faster. *the only time you would value sustained in PvP is for what are known as pressure specs. Specs like Madness and Hatred that get their kills by pumping out more post-mitigation DPS than the opposing healer can match. Advanced Prototype, now matter how it is geared, is ever going to put up enough post-mitigation DPS to do that, and as such should always be built and utilized as a burst class. Edited July 27, 2015 by Zoom_VI Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KevMeup Posted July 27, 2015 Share Posted July 27, 2015 (edited) Alacrity gives me more uptime, lowers all my CDs and helps me get more burst in a tighter window. Those are all of value to me in PVP. Between my 72% surge and your 75% surge, the difference isn't that large. So my 17k crit on a sage would be around 17850 with 75% and would be 16200 something with 71% ? Normally geared players will crit for 12500 to 14000 max, so the difference is even smaller. I have no problem stacking some accuracy. I know I'm making a trade off for it, and for regs, I'm enjoying it. I'll probably fine tune and add some accuracy later to be better prepared for ranked. I'd still rather trim my surge down to 71% to afford it and some alacrity though for my playstyle. Edited July 27, 2015 by KevMeup Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zoom_VI Posted July 27, 2015 Share Posted July 27, 2015 You're overvaluing alacrity. Yes it is effectively a scalar, but you cannot get enough of it to get a noticeable or even useful gain in PvP. The sheer amount of downtime kills it. Why? Because the peroids of time are too short. Lets say your killing window on some target is 9 seconds. That's fairly generous in the current meta. With zero alacrity you will get 6 GCDs in that window which for AP equates to 6 ability activations. Now lets say you have 10% alacrity (which is way more than you can realistically get) You're GCD is now 1.35 seconds. Which means you can fit 6.667 GCDs into that window. However you can't fire 0.667 of a ability which means even with 10% alacrity you still only got off 6 attacks in that 9 second window. Or in other words, the alacrity was worthless. It's also worth noting that everytime you get stunned, LoS'ed or otherwise have a ability delayed for any reason, the value of alacrity gets reset. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KevMeup Posted July 27, 2015 Share Posted July 27, 2015 (edited) You're overvaluing alacrity. Yes it is effectively a scalar, but you cannot get enough of it to get a noticeable or even useful gain in PvP. The sheer amount of downtime kills it. Why? Because the peroids of time are too short. Lets say your killing window on some target is 9 seconds. That's fairly generous in the current meta. With zero alacrity you will get 6 GCDs in that window which for AP equates to 6 ability activations. Now lets say you have 10% alacrity (which is way more than you can realistically get) You're GCD is now 1.35 seconds. Which means you can fit 6.667 GCDs into that window. However you can't fire 0.667 of a ability which means even with 10% alacrity you still only got off 6 attacks in that 9 second window. Or in other words, the alacrity was worthless. It's also worth noting that everytime you get stunned, LoS'ed or otherwise have a ability delayed for any reason, the value of alacrity gets reset. I'm just saying that 4% surge vs 4% alacrity doesn't sound like a good trade off. Only 2 of the 5 effects of Alacrity get reset when you're stunned or LOSed. Your energy is still returning faster along with all of your skills that are on cooldown. This makes you better prepared to continue when you've returned to the fight. Even your retractable blade will still be ticking on them faster which would balance any positive effect surge would have during this downtime. Whats nice is Alacrity is still even helping me a bit on cooldowns while I'm standing dead behind a door. Maybe we should split out gearing recommendations, I'm basing mine on Regs with a healer. Usually someone is going to be doing a fair amount of Regs if they are asking about gear. If you're looking at solo ranked, without a healer, the math does change a lot in favor of higher surge and accuracy. In that short of a fight, you actually have a crit buff on you for a large % of it (EF), you'll start with your 4 stack proc and you won't have enough time for most of your CDs to reset. Maybe something like this would be more appropriate.. Regs with heals: 400-500 Surge, up to 3 pieces Accuracy, rest alacrity Solo Ranked: 500+ surge (up to 75%) > at least 2 pieces of Accuracy > Alacrity Grouped Ranked, would be similar to Solo Ranked, but could loosen up a bit depending on your group makeup and survivability. Edited July 27, 2015 by KevMeup Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SgtGrumbles Posted July 28, 2015 Share Posted July 28, 2015 Alacrity gives me more uptime, lowers all my CDs and helps me get more burst in a tighter window. Those are all of value to me in PVP. Between my 72% surge and your 75% surge, the difference isn't that large. So my 17k crit on a sage would be around 17850 with 75% and would be 16200 something with 71% ? Normally geared players will crit for 12500 to 14000 max, so the difference is even smaller. I have no problem stacking some accuracy. I know I'm making a trade off for it, and for regs, I'm enjoying it. I'll probably fine tune and add some accuracy later to be better prepared for ranked. I'd still rather trim my surge down to 71% to afford it and some alacrity though for my playstyle. what the hell. are we even playing the same game? my crits seem to top out at 9.5-10k, fully augmented dark reaver and min maxed. **** and that's the exception, average crit on HiB is around 7k. and i know the rotation to get the big hits. what the hell am i doing wrong? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KevMeup Posted July 28, 2015 Share Posted July 28, 2015 what the hell. are we even playing the same game? my crits seem to top out at 9.5-10k, fully augmented dark reaver and min maxed. **** and that's the exception, average crit on HiB is around 7k. and i know the rotation to get the big hits. what the hell am i doing wrong? 0 Crit, 500ish surge rating, full 174s, Energy Blast with 4 stacks and the forced crit from from the 6 piece set proc usually gives me a highest crit of a round at 12500-13000 in a match. Thats over a longer match and in regs, so I'm sure they are not all geared and out of 800k total damage put out. Railshot is lower, though I do see 10k hits on it often. I have no clue how I got that 17k crit the other day, never gotten much over 14k before that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SgtGrumbles Posted July 28, 2015 Share Posted July 28, 2015 huh, no crit really? i guess i'm not quite done min maxing. earlier advice was to not go below 20% base. i think i'll try experimenting with that. good thing enhancements are so cheap. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zoom_VI Posted July 28, 2015 Share Posted July 28, 2015 (edited) I'm just saying that 4% surge vs 4% alacrity doesn't sound like a good trade off. Only 2 of the 5 effects of Alacrity get reset when you're stunned or LOSed. Your energy is still returning faster along with all of your skills that are on cooldown. This makes you better prepared to continue when you've returned to the fight. Even your retractable blade will still be ticking on them faster which would balance any positive effect surge would have during this downtime. Whats nice is Alacrity is still even helping me a bit on cooldowns while I'm standing dead behind a door. The "2 of 5" effects of alacrity that don't count are the only effects of alacrity that are meaningful. With all the downtime in PvP resource management is completely and utterly trivial. RB ticking faster? A 500 damage tick happening 4% faster is still utterly meaningless. And besides Surge affects RB too. Maybe we should split out gearing recommendations, I'm basing mine on Regs with a healer. Usually someone is going to be doing a fair amount of Regs if they are asking about gear. If you're looking at solo ranked, without a healer, the math does change a lot in favor of higher surge and accuracy. In that short of a fight, you actually have a crit buff on you for a large % of it (EF), you'll start with your 4 stack proc and you won't have enough time for most of your CDs to reset. That's the thing though. Your build doesn't make sense for any game mode. You take pure power, which implies going for a high potential burst build, but then you turn around at take 4% alacrity, which does nothing at all for your potential burst nor burst reliability. Alacrity benefit is only for long duration sustained DPS, and even in PvP it's worth there is almost non-existent. Crit rating is by far more useful for sustained DPS than Alacrity is, not to mention Crit rating also helps burst reliability although it doesn't help your potential burst. For actual PvP gametypes. Solo ranked would be pure power and near pure surge with a bit of accuracy. This is because your life expectancy is so short. Team ranked you would take a lot of crit for, since team ranked values burst reliability much more than pug gamemodes, and team ranked also has a slightly higher emphasis on sustained DPS. For regs you would probably be best with a gear setup somewhere between the two previous. I would not take 3 enhancements of accuracy with the current gear tier. Now if we where to go up a tier I would probably do so. what the hell. are we even playing the same game? my crits seem to top out at 9.5-10k, fully augmented dark reaver and min maxed. **** and that's the exception, average crit on HiB is around 7k. and i know the rotation to get the big hits. what the hell am i doing wrong? As was stated by Kev you are hitting a non-tank that has no DcDs up you really should be pushing 12k, and 13k to 14k on a light armor target depending on relic procs. 17k hits are a huge exception but not all that unheared of. I usually get them once a week or so and nearly always during my opener where I have control over my relics. ..and then there is Grizz (chatbox) Edited July 28, 2015 by Zoom_VI Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zoom_VI Posted July 28, 2015 Share Posted July 28, 2015 huh, no crit really? i guess i'm not quite done min maxing. earlier advice was to not go below 20% base. i think i'll try experimenting with that. good thing enhancements are so cheap. I depends on where you want to go with the build. More crit gives a increase to sustained DPS and a slight increase burst reliability, but comes at the cost of peak burst. Running little to no crit increases peak burst but slightly decreases burst reliability and decreases sustained DPS. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nemeses Posted July 30, 2015 Author Share Posted July 30, 2015 I depends on where you want to go with the build. More crit gives a increase to sustained DPS and a slight increase burst reliability, but comes at the cost of peak burst. Running little to no crit increases peak burst but slightly decreases burst reliability and decreases sustained DPS. Hi m8, cheers for all your replies any chance you could link your build? Another question yesterday I gear'd up to Dark Reaver, but when I enter a BG it says my chest-piece and weapon are below the required PvP spec, er how can this be, as I have the top un argmented gear? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zoom_VI Posted July 30, 2015 Share Posted July 30, 2015 (edited) Hi m8, cheers for all your replies any chance you could link your build? Another question yesterday I gear'd up to Dark Reaver, but when I enter a BG it says my chest-piece and weapon are below the required PvP spec, er how can this be, as I have the top un argmented gear? Check your weapon and make sure it has a 41 expertise crystal in it. In 3.0 they stopped giving crystals with weapons. can't respond to the build question, work calls. Edited July 30, 2015 by Zoom_VI Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TACeMossie Posted July 30, 2015 Share Posted July 30, 2015 huh, no crit really? i guess i'm not quite done min maxing. earlier advice was to not go below 20% base. i think i'll try experimenting with that. good thing enhancements are so cheap. To be fair, I have 0 crit, full power augs, and the only dark reaver gear I have is earpiece/implants/relics, and I have just over 20% crit chance, so full power is still fine with your restriction of "Dont drop below 20%". Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nemeses Posted July 31, 2015 Author Share Posted July 31, 2015 (edited) Check your weapon and make sure it has a 41 expertise crystal in it. In 3.0 they stopped giving crystals with weapons. can't respond to the build question, work calls. Yup thanks was the weapon, still get in on the shield though, was just wanting to have a look to see what build to go for with shield tech and whats the best augments to use. Edited July 31, 2015 by Nemeses Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stephenalandavie Posted August 2, 2015 Share Posted August 2, 2015 Can anyone make a suggetion on utilities for Powertech? AP? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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