Discussion: Do we really need a requisition system?

[Verain]

Yea, we need a req system. But we could use things in addition to that, and we could use some ways around it with events and such. The ways to offer some wiggle room on this without deleting it are many. But this game, with this playerbase, definitely needs a req system.

[Verain]

Actually, we need the exact opposite. A sort of handicap system as in golf.

 

This is interesting, and it wouldn't work.

 

It wouldn't work because it discourages RPG players, and as it turns out, that's a lot of the playerbase of an MMORPG. It also wouldn't work because of the way the system is set up, and the fact that players could easily escape it- it's very much an opt-in system fundamentally.

 

It's interesting because it COULD work, if you set it up correctly, but there's zero chance of that. More importantly, it would and should be applied to a zillion games... but only if done correctly.

 

In golf, the handicap system allows you to meaningfully play against players of a different skill level. But the key is, if you are doing that, it means that the rules organization recognizes your skill. Also note that professionals don't mess with this at all, so you'd want a mode similar to that for matches not crapped up by foodships. No one wins in golf against someone with a much lower handicap and thinks that they are a better player- they believe that they played better, relative to their ability, than the other guy did.

 

In an MMO, this would likely mean that you'd WANT to play with your handicap- you'd need to INCENTIVIZE players to get a "disadvantage" with something, and that thing would have to be respected, desirable, and significant- after all, if the system actually works enough to make an ace lose to a foodship half the time (and in a team game, this means that you are screwing your team by turning on the handicap mode, which, again, is absolutely opt-in regardless of how you implement it), then the handicap system is VERY real, so the other effects of it need to be as well.

 

 

 

Something like this: New pilots begin with ships on the highest level and with the ages more and more on the ships fails. Just as in real life too.

 

Not really how real life works. You don't put an ace in any plane known to have issues, ever. You don't want him to turn back early because of mechanical issues, you don't want him to have a problem if targeted, etc.

 

 

The reason this approach is fail is because it doesn't reward the veteran player in any way. On live, who can pick every mastered component of every possible ship? It's a small list, even assuming it isn't "just Verain" anymore. If this is every player, you lose a great deal of motivation as a new player, and importantly, it would mean that a veteran wanting a fair fight would simply have to spawn alts (or alt accounts, or whatever). The other piece is, the ships scale down too much to be very useful- the stock ships are meant to only be in a few games ever, after all (on live, the only person playing stock for more than four games is an ace deliberately playing stock). Issues with armor pen stop becoming leveling issues and become serious game breaking problems, etc.

 

 

No, it would have to be something like- as you play, you unlock Debuff levels, based on your performance. Picking a

higher Debuff would weaken you, but offer some kind of in-game rewards, such as extra team score (to make up for the fact that you can't contribute much), as well as some kind of unstoppable reward off the space grid- you'd absolutely need to be highlighted on the scoreboard with whatever Debuff Level you were playing with (so the bads don't think they beat you on your level), as well as probably running around the GSF Lobby ("fleet", they call it) in a shining gold unicorn mount, whilst twilek girl-NPCs follow you around singing your praises. In other words, you'd need to WANT to turn on that Debuff Level.

 

 

 

It's interesting, but this game wouldn't support it well, and the playerbase wouldn't even know what to do with something like that.

 

 

Requisition is not stopping GSF. It's a three-space game put in a game where most players have a hard enough time getting the enemy in the front arc of their character in 2D. You can't have a cool skill based three space game, AND have everyone have similar skill at it, because "skill based" is exclusive with "has similar skill".

[Ligurio]

whilst twilek girl-NPCs follow you around singing your praises

Add dancer outfits on the twilek girls and I'm ready to fly anything needed to earn that (oh that's an idea : twilekgram )

[Magira]

Not really how real life works. You don't put an ace in any plane known to have issues, ever. You don't want him to turn back early because of mechanical issues, you don't want him to have a problem if targeted, etc.

 

Yes, yes. I'm a freelancer, not a soldier, no one put me in a ship. I fly for the Republic and the Empire, depending on who pays more. I buy my own ships and nothing lasts forever.

Edited July 30, 2015 by Magira

[Armonddd]

This game's skill curve is already so incredibly variant (i don't believe i need to prove this to anyone), do we really need a requisition system to add on to that?

 

Of course not. Vertical progression in a PvP game is inherently unfair. I'd liken it to a D&D campaign where some players are higher level because the DM said so, except even that amount of frustration is partially alleviated because you're at least on their side every time.

 

It's a testament to the theme and core gameplay mechanics (which are really, really strong) that new players still pick up the game for long enough to become veterans.

Edited July 31, 2015 by Armonddd

[Verain]

I think it's more a testament to the fact that it's an MMO and is built around progression.

 

And you could build that progression in a nicer way. The game is full of traps for new players, and frankly, also casual players. You yourself said some stuff on that, then quit for months, then came back and it was all still relevant because hey, nothing changed.

 

The problem I have with threads like this isn't the idea that you could improve GSF by fixing up some of the gearing experience- it's that this proposes a deceptively simple thing, one that has a lot of ramifications, and it will cause many more problems than it claims to solve, likely while not solving the core issues about player retention and appeal. I think it's a testament to how well designed the game is that it can go without content for so very long and still have new players getting into it, in a world that constantly pumps out shinies to glitter at you.

[MiaowZedong]

Of course not. Vertical progression in a PvP game is inherently unfair. I'd liken it to a D&D campaign where some players are higher level because the DM said so, except even that amount of frustration is partially alleviated because you're at least on their side every time.

 

It's more like a D&D campaign where any reroll or any new player must start level 1, while existing characters are whatever level they are. The later in the campaign you join, the more unfair (and the less fun) it is. MMORPG actually do tend to have a similar problem, in that their ability to attract and retain players declines over time (they also alleviate this aspect of it by making it much easier to hit level cap than in pen and paper games, of course).

 

You could argue that one of the reasons it's of particular concern in GSF is that the usual MMO limiting factors don't apply. There's no 12x XP event for GSF, and the level cap never lifts, nor do you get any advantage through legacy or a guild req bonus or...

Edited August 1, 2015 by MiaowZedong

[Armonddd]

I think it's more a testament to the fact that it's an MMO and is built around progression.

 

And you could build that progression in a nicer way. The game is full of traps for new players, and frankly, also casual players. You yourself said some stuff on that, then quit for months, then came back and it was all still relevant because hey, nothing changed.

 

You're right, that did happen.

 

I feel like a bit of a broken record here, but I'll reference Guild Wars once again. In that game there were thousands of skills available to choose from, and you could only put eight on your bar at a time. It was a mark of status to be UAS (unlocked all skills) or UAX (unlocked all X -- skills, equipment, and later NPCs). How did you get there? Play PvP and get currency -- you even got currency on a loss, so anyone could grind their way to prestige.

 

There were also title tracks for Serious PvP. There were anywhere from eight to twelve PvP formats in the game (depending on how you count depreciated and seasonal formats), with 4-6 titles you could advance only through PvP. Checking title progress before sending invites was how you did your own matchmaking. One title track even had special emotes; getting a

was a sure sign that you really shouldn't feel bad about the stomping you just received.

 

There's ways progression can be done well in PvP. Cosmetic progression, horizontal progression, and prestige progression -- those are all fine. Vertical progression, where your actual power level increases (often significantly) based on how long you've been playing? Nah.