The Operative roll!!!

[denpic]

I don't see the problem with roll at all, operatives die fast in group pvp

1v1 they are strong but that's about it.

[Boomer-]

I don't see the problem with roll at all, operatives die fast in group pvp

1v1 they are strong but that's about it.

 

You don't see it because:

1. You're lying

 

2. You're not smart enough to realize it

 

Since this ability is obviously unbalanced and doesn't take much intelligence to realize it must be 1.

Edited September 5, 2015 by Boomer-

[QuiveringPotato]

I'm pretty sure that BW didn't intend for Scamper/Exfiltrate to exceed it's range when used by a ledge. Pretty surprised they haven't fixed that little bug.

 

That's not a bug, every movement ability will work the same. Try using super-speed HO on a PT and jumping off a ledge. You will go farther. Force Speed, run and jump off a ledge, you will go farther.

 

It's just how the game uses physics, I imagine.

[WickedImage]

You don't see it because:

1. You're lying

 

2. You're not smart enough to realize it

 

Since this ability is obviously unbalanced and doesn't take much intelligence to realize it must be 1.

 

It sounds like you are #2 lol....

For goodness sakes people. Use your cc and the roll stops. Amazing....

Roll is fine. Nothing to see here. If roll is deemed unfit then ALL mobility should be removed. Force leap, Force speed, predation, hydraulic overrides, ANYTHING, anything at all that allows someone to move faster than a walk.

Boy...that sounds like fun, huh?

[foxmob]

You don't see it because:

1. You're lying

 

2. You're not smart enough to realize it

 

Since this ability is obviously unbalanced and doesn't take much intelligence to realize it must be 1.

 

that's unnecessarily harsh. and ops are squishy. you can die really fast on them. faster than just about any other AC. however, if you understand other classes and can monitor your debuff bar, then they are ridiculous survival machines. I can't think of any other class that can negate any single dmg it wants twice every 10s. and the price for that is 1 gcd. yes. it's a cheese mechanic. but mostly because of how often it's available. what I would like to see is the dmg counter separated from the escape/closer. that's the real problem. you cannot nerf the escape/closer, but you also cannot have that powerful a dcd on that short a cd.

 

what's also funny to me about the ability is it's "susceptible" to roots. it should be just the opposite. as an escape/closer, it should break roots, not be hindered by them.

 

:2cents:

[Zez-Kai-Ell]

The operative roll is problem period, and is not even just the roll.

Its not even call people liars or stupid no point on that, is simple at the moment the number of operatives and other classes like powertech and sorcerer have increased ridiculously no idea how the other servers.

When smash was all over the place wath was people answer? is no op, is ok learn to counter etc, powertech same thing.

People will mostly play classes with smallest skill level possible and fast damage in pvp, was always this way and will never change.

You cant expect people who play them admit: oh yes you are right there is a problem that need be dealt with, wath adjust fairly the class which am trolling others? no no thank you.

Only hope is bw realize where they mess up and they are willing to do wath need to be done.

[AlrikFassbauer]

It sounds like you are #2 lol....

For goodness sakes people. Use your cc and the roll stops. Amazing....

 

I've got a tiny time window of ... how long does that roll take ? ... 1 or 2 seconds, then the Operative is outta reach. I just can't target him or her anymore, because the Oprative has just rolled away, then most likely used stealth ...

 

I have seen Operatives getting down to 10 % or so health - THEN they roll awayy to the next "health station" (Voidstar, for example), and come back H2F ... Same with Assassins that plant their Phase walk there ...

 

I don't believe that I have THAT good reflexes to stop an Operatives roll within the 1 or 2 seconds the roll is initiated in.

Furthermore, when I see an Operative initiate a roll SOIMEWHERE on the battlefield, I NEED to get the Operative targetted BEFORE I can do ANYTHING to hinder him or her.

Practically, this means that i need to do a tab to get the nearest foe - sometimes more tabs if he or she isn't the nearest, and thus just not selected by pressing TAB.

These fractions of seconds that are REQUIRED to get the Operative battling someone (or just me) into the focus is enough time to initiate a roll. Another key pressed for CC. That's another fractions of seconds.

 

THIS is something exclusively younger people are able to do with their super-fast reflexes. Not everyone has them, and especially not casuals because casuals DO have a life ! ( Meaning that they just can't train during whole night & day. )

[Hiro_Wildfire]

aye, the operative roll is an almighty OP cooldown, utilised by the concealment gods to kill everything and.. its stopped by a root.

 

Honestly the arguments against the roll are laughable, how many strong defensive's can be stopped by a damned root? Useing it drops their damage, if they go out of range? all of their hard hitter's or any decent damage attack's are out of range.

[Boomer-]

that's unnecessarily harsh. and ops are squishy. you can die really fast on them. faster than just about any other AC. however, if you understand other classes and can monitor your debuff bar, then they are ridiculous survival machines. I can't think of any other class that can negate any single dmg it wants twice every 10s. and the price for that is 1 gcd. yes. it's a cheese mechanic. but mostly because of how often it's available. what I would like to see is the dmg counter separated from the escape/closer. that's the real problem. you cannot nerf the escape/closer, but you also cannot have that powerful a dcd on that short a cd.

 

what's also funny to me about the ability is it's "susceptible" to roots. it should be just the opposite. as an escape/closer, it should break roots, not be hindered by them.

 

:2cents:

 

I understand the other classes. I play them all including the operative. That's why I know how ridiculous it is and I RARELY die on my concealment operative. Think about it an operative can mitigate more damage than a tank specced juggernaut. Is that not ridiculous? yes, a stun BEFORE or AFTER a roll can stop the roll for 4 seconds. Big deal lol. Stuns stop everything in the game except shoulder cannon and CC escapes, in this case you have to time it right and all he has to do is wait it out and start rolling again. If you mean 2 people should stand there and stun the op back to back then what the hell. So to kill the operative you're advised to have 2 players? again, ridiculous.

 

The second roll needs to have immunity removed. There is no other way to keep the ability in the game the way it is.

 

Here's a screenshot of my operative so that you know I pvp. Valor 85, doesn't mean anything in terms of skill but I have pvp'ed my fair share on this class. Sadly enough take note of the low population on the fleet at prime time. Stop putting nonsense feedback on these forums and let the game be balanced instead of obsessively clinging to one OP ability at the cost of unbalanced pvp.

 

http://tinypic.com/view.php?pic=2enow89&s=8#.Vetth8ledvM

Edited September 5, 2015 by Boomer-

[denpic]

I understand the other classes. I play them all including the operative. That's why I know how ridiculous it is and I RARELY die on my concealment operative. Think about it an operative can mitigate more damage than a tank specced juggernaut. Is that not ridiculous? yes, a stun BEFORE or AFTER a roll can stop the roll for 4 seconds. Big deal lol. Stuns stop everything in the game except shoulder cannon and CC escapes, in this case you have to time it right and all he has to do is wait it out and start rolling again. If you mean 2 people should stand there and stun the op back to back then what the hell. So to kill the operative you're advised to have 2 players? again, ridiculous.

 

The second roll needs to have immunity removed. There is no other way to keep the ability in the game the way it is.

 

Here's a screenshot of my operative so that you know I pvp. Valor 85, doesn't mean anything in terms of skill but I have pvp'ed my fair share on this class. Sadly enough take note of the low population on the fleet at prime time. Stop putting nonsense feedback on these forums and let the game be balanced instead of obsessively clinging to one OP ability at the cost of unbalanced pvp.

 

http://tinypic.com/view.php?pic=2enow89&s=8#.Vetth8ledvM

 

Everyone's got an operative..

 

The games not based on 1v1 and yes 2 players or more should coordinate to bring down 1 player

That's why nothing dies in pug warzones because everyone's attacking their own targets

Thinking omg roll is to op I can't get this guy..

I'd say there proably 1 or 2 operative/scoundrel on every server that is abnormally good and to me that doesn't Warrant nerfing a ability, And as an operative you should know well that the immunity on roll is there not only to mitigate damage But to also act as a gap closer and allow them to stay on target when their not opening fighting from stealth

Like unremitting on force leap.

Edited September 5, 2015 by denpic

[Glower]

It sounds like you are #2 lol....

For goodness sakes people. Use your cc and the roll stops. Amazing....

 

 

Amazing solution for concealment trollers... Lets give them full resolve!

 

 

aye, the operative roll is an almighty OP cooldown, utilised by the concealment gods to kill everything and.. its stopped by a root.

 

Honestly the arguments against the roll are laughable, how many strong defensive's can be stopped by a damned root? Useing it drops their damage, if they go out of range? all of their hard hitter's or any decent damage attack's are out of range.

 

But when they interrupt node caps or roll with a ball (through fire or from a ledge ) they don't care about damage.

Edited September 6, 2015 by Glower

[Hiro_Wildfire]

Amazing solution for concealment trollers... Lets give them full resolve!

But when they interrupt node caps or roll with a ball (through fire or from a ledge they don't care about damage.

 

through the fire, a concealment still takes a tic of damage if not done perfectly, though yea they would probaly do with takeing a little more from that. Personaly I wish roots still worked on full resolve, but hey thats the way it is for everyone now.

 

As for the ledge thing, neerly all classes can do somthing of the sort, its in a single game type as well.

[Glower]

through the fire, a concealment still takes a tic of damage if not done perfectly, though yea they would probaly do with takeing a little more from that. Personaly I wish roots still worked on full resolve, but hey thats the way it is for everyone now.

 

As for the ledge thing, neerly all classes can do somthing of the sort, its in a single game type as well.

 

 

"they don't care about damage." that was the main part, not these tricks.

[Boomer-]

Everyone's got an operative..

 

The games not based on 1v1 and yes 2 players or more should coordinate to bring down 1 player

That's why nothing dies in pug warzones because everyone's attacking their own targets

Thinking omg roll is to op I can't get this guy..

I'd say there proably 1 or 2 operative/scoundrel on every server that is abnormally good and to me that doesn't Warrant nerfing a ability, And as an operative you should know well that the immunity on roll is there not only to mitigate damage But to also act as a gap closer and allow them to stay on target when their not opening fighting from stealth

Like unremitting on force leap.

 

Most of what you're saying is irrelevant. Some of it is just downright ridiculous.

 

"The games not based on 1v1 and yes 2 players or more should coordinate to bring down 1 player"

Why should operatives have this advantage? Even assassins can be brought down by 1 person. As it stands operatives can not be brought down by 1 person even if at 30% health.

 

" And as an operative you should know well that the immunity on roll is there not only to mitigate damage But to also act as a gap closer and allow them to stay on target when their not opening fighting from stealth "

Haha the fact that its used as a gap closer is no reason to have complete immunity to everything for 3 seconds on a 10 second cool down.

 

"I'd say there proably 1 or 2 operative/scoundrel on every server that is abnormally good and to me that doesn't Warrant nerfing a ability,"

Ye its not 1 or 2 per server. Its anyone with an IQ above 50 who knows what the ability is for. How hard is it to press roll when you hear the beep beep of a grenade? It surely does warrant nerfing it

 

"And as an operative you should know well that the immunity on roll is there not only to mitigate damage But to also act as a gap closer and allow them to stay on target when their not opening fighting from stealth

Like unremitting on force leap"

No problem. Roll should stay in the game as a gap closer but not Immunity to everything for 23% of the entire time.

Either

1. Remove the immunity from the second role

 

2. Double the distance on roll and just have 1 longer roll with immunity to damage for 1.5 second GCD.

 

The ability is unbalanced as it stands.

[denpic]

Most of what you're saying is irrelevant. Some of it is just downright ridiculous.

 

Everything I've said is pretty Much fact you can call it what you want but if you want to kill something in a timely manner which is very important in pvp You need coordinated attacks from 2 or more players, I don't give a crap about how op something is in a 1v1 In group pvp which is what pvp in this game is focused on operatives aren't that strong because when you're actually playing the game how it's intended Stuff dies fast no matter the class or what cooldowns are being used.

 

And anyone with an iq over 50 can also use their classes cooldowns to mitigate damage

If I hear the beep beep on my commando I pop diversion or sabre reflect on my guardian etc how easy...

Edited September 6, 2015 by denpic

[Boomer-]

Everything I've said is pretty Much fact you can call it what you want but if you want to kill something in a timely manner which is very important in pvp You need coordinated attacks from 2 or more players, I don't give a crap about how op something is in a 1v1 In group pvp which is what pvp in this game is focused on operatives aren't that strong because when you're actually playing the game how it's intended Stuff dies fast no matter the class or what cooldowns are being used.

 

And anyone with an iq over 50 can also use their classes cooldowns to mitigate damage

If I hear the beep beep on my commando I pop diversion or sabre reflect on my guardian etc how easy...

 

Go back and read what I wrote. Addressed every single one of your points. How about putting saber reflect on a 10 second cooldown? After all its not balanced around 1v1. It would be ok if you needed 3 players to take down a juggernaut. Plus, roll is not just op in 1 v 1. Its OP in 8 v 1 as well because well, its immune to everything whether its 1 player or 150 players. hehe

[foxmob]

s an operative you should know well that the immunity on roll is there not only to mitigate damage But to also act as a gap closer and allow them to stay on target when their not opening fighting from stealth

Like unremitting on force leap.

 

ok. here's where the problem is for me. they've attached damage immunity to a very necessary skill that is both closer and escape. I'm sorry but that's just wrong. all you need to tack onto that is like a physics and root/snare break. then it becomes an excellent closer and escape (pulls and punts don't ruin it) without completely destroying an opposing player's roto 2x every 10s.

 

as for it being "ridiculously op" it's not. it's just stupid. like...really stupid. like wth were they thinking stupid. ultimate troll and 1v1. then again, you have everyone on the planet complaining about the sins who can have 12s of stun immunity. and what do they need all that anti-cc for? because RANGED are ROOTING them. deflection doesn't do anything against roots. but you've just neutered the defenses of every melee who can no longer stun the sins. brilliant. that's about how I feel about what they've done with conceal roll. it's just the wrong thing for what the class needs and it's definitely the wrong thing for what roll fundamentally is: escape/closer.

[Ritslev]

1 class can jump with the ball

1 can roll

 

No where is my teleport with the ball at!

 

seriously though

 

The Roll is bugged, if you use it at the right angle and the right position you can cover a LOT more distance then intended. How whilst rolling you're immune to cc, so the fact that they can cover this amount of ground is just stupid.

 

2 x Operatives can cover from Start to endzone in 4 rolls and 1 pass. Coordinated over TS Means that the game is pretty much near impossible to shut Down.

[Thaladan]

the class mchanic spaming roll and evasion is a total joke in warzones. totally cheat.

 

and of course they just ruined the interest of huttball.

[Suprisex]

If you people think that operative roll is what is ruining pvp you are absolutely crazy. I hate to say it because I despise this saying but L2P. It is possible to kill an operative 1 v 1.

 

As others have said, use teamwork. Pvp is a team effort and operatives are VERY easy to shut down using team work. Just can't believe so many people whining about operative roll when there are so many other issues with pvp. It's laughable.

[Lhancelot]

The key is to not nerf operative roll. No. The key is to give other classes more speed boosts so they can catch that operative when he rolls!

 

Some ideas I have are:

 

PTs need some sort of jetpack ability that bursts them ahead with a 250% speed burst, kind of like what sage/sorc already has. The burst should only last 10 secs or so otherwise it would be too powerful, and like sorc /sage it should be on a 20 sec cooldown.

 

Juggs / Mara should get ravage on the move as well as a range increase to it so when the operative rolls, the ravage keeps hitting him! That or, ravage inflicts a root that lasts 15 seconds and cannot be removed.

 

Sins / Shadows should get some sort of special in-stealth speed boost that lasts the entire duration of stealth and grants them a 150% increased movement speed. This would enable them to catch operatives before they could roll away.

 

These are just a few ideas that could make the operative roll a little less powerful while at the same time not nerfing them.

 

Nerfs are bad and should be avoided, they only make the class gimped and less fun to play. Instead, buff classes that really need them. just my opinion anyway.

[Eazybreezy]

Um i think mara's clashing blast can hit threw a roll. and if operatives had no roll it would be a terrible class. you wouldnt be able to close the gaps between sorcs snipers and mercs and you wouldnt be able to create distance from jugs maras sins and pts, Imo i think its fine the way it is.

[aristrokratie]

Sorcs can pull, sorcs have knockback, same for sins (as tank they can kill enemies by pulling them into fire)

pt can pull people, have ''you cannot stop my run'' ability, mando/sniper both have a potent knockback, mara can leap, jugg can leap to both enemies and allies and have a insane knockback for the ball carrier, sniper has roll.

 

 

Either nerf ALL that stuff or stop complaining

[Boomer-]

Again people are trying to muddy the water with half truths. The guy above me in particular is just throwing out random abilities from different classes and saying if youre gona fix roll you have to nerf everything lol. Goes to show you the type of mindset that thinks operative roll is fine in this game.

 

These are the facts:

1. As it stands no class can kill an operative 1v1 even if the operative is at 30%. No other class has that advantage. While pvp is not balanced around 1 v 1 that also doesn't mean ops should have a god like ability

 

2. Nobody is saying remove roll. Keep roll in the game but either: Remove damage immunity, keep stun and root immunity, OR remove all immunity from the second roll.

 

Immunity to every single ability in the game 23% of the entire time, at your finger tips is clearly unbalanced, cheesy and ridiculous.

Cannot explain it any more concisely.

Bring on 5 more posts about how warriors can leap and sorcerers can force speed haha.

Edited September 6, 2015 by Boomer-

[foxmob]

The key is to not nerf operative roll. No. The key is to give other classes more speed boosts so they can catch that operative when he rolls! .

 

without doubt, the worst suggestion I've seen. no offense, but one of two major problems with pvp atm is (almost) every class having access to a 'god mode' movement aide or immunity. the other issue is in my sig, and both issues could be chalked-up to power creep -- except it was more like a power leap in 3.0. please, do NOT make everyone else even faster.

 

edit: or were you jk?