Operations and Flashpoints in Fallen Empire

[Danw]

I disagree, I want more story and new FPs/OPs. Not less story.

 

You are right there should be both, but if they can't do both they need to do the MMO, not the story.

[TUXs]

You're a retard

You lost ALL credibility when you said this. Way to lose control.

[ikinai]

You are right there should be both, but if they can't do both they need to do the MMO, not the story.

 

Story is also part of the MMO experience. There are many of us that play for the stories. So in essence they are doing MMO, cause an MMO without a story is not going to be very engaging.

[TUXs]

You are right there should be both, but if they can't do both they need to do the MMO, not the story.

They CAN do both, they simply chose NOT to.

[ikinai]

They CAN do both, they simply chose NOT to.

 

And that's the sad truth of it right there. I'm not saying stop asking for FPs and Ops, please do keep asking, but don't go saying they shouldn't do story content. They can and should do both.

[K_osss]

And that's the sad truth of it right there. I'm not saying stop asking for FPs and Ops, please do keep asking, but don't go saying they shouldn't do story content. They can and should do both.

 

And they will, just not all at once.

[tolaez]

Dear George Smith,

 

Do yourself a favour and tell the community what new OPS you have planned and roughly when they will appear;cause I think you probably get the feeling that as far as swtor players are concerned old content is still old content no matter how much you revamp it.

 

I have to agree, it's time for some damage control.

 

Ok you've told us we aren't getting a new op. I think 50+ pages of people expressing their disappointment speaks for itself. So tell us about when we can expect it?

[Danw]

They CAN do both, they simply chose NOT to.

 

I'm not saying story isn't good, I do like playing the story...once, maybe twice, but after that it's the same, even in KotFE it will be the same after you do it a couple times, people can hope that it's going to be this amazing different experience every time but it's not going to be, hype and misleading it all is, and the "story" gamers are eating its all up, not seeing the big picture.

 

They chose NOT to and repeat the launch of the game all over again...except this time the story will be nothing compared to the length of the original game and the same old same old MMO content will be ignored and have the same feel as launch.

 

This is set up to be the same as launch, but worse.

[TUXs]

This is set up to be the same as launch, but worse.

Possibly. The big problem I see right now is that there's nothing NEW to do...at least at launch we had new things to try...right now, the game is as stagnant as it has ever been.

[Grayseven]

I have to agree, it's time for some damage control.

 

Ok you've told us we aren't getting a new op. I think 50+ pages of people expressing their disappointment speaks for itself. So tell us about when we can expect it?

 

Sadly, it looks like standard BW announcement protocols are in effect.

 

If we are lucky, we will see something mentioned next week. It seems standard for an announcement to go out on a Thursday and then to be ignored through the weekend. On Monday, forum violations will be handed out as tempers flare and people start attacking one another instead of debating the topic. If they don't patch on Tuesday we might see something unless they decide to ignore it altogether.

 

I'm sure the excuse this time will be SDCC.

 

Whatever the case, no matter how you feel on the subject, the success of this move will depend on two things. One, it can't be bugged and then remain unfixed like SoR was and two, the chapter releases have to involve more play time than the Ziost update did. If either one of those things happens with KotFE, it will fail. No one will be happy because the people who want more story will be upset that there isn't enough and the people who wanted more end game content like Ops and FPs will still be upset. The rare few who like a little bit of everything (like myself) will probably be the most disappointed of all.

[Jedi-Elora]

You know what's really sad?

 

I'm willing to bet that they actually believe that what they are doing is "good for the game".

I know. I want to know whose calling these decisions and re-assuring the heads that this is the way to go, because he is right about on thing, this is the way to go to bankruptcy. He's totally deluded his highers up into believing that ONLY STORY will be a good idea. I'm not saying story is bad, but will it keep players stuck to it on long run? No.

 

This is what will happen. There WILL be a short burst of players joining this game for KotFE. Lots of players. They are going to play this story, they WILL get done with this story. And then they'll leave, or hop off to another MMO.

 

Meanwhile, you've completely pissed off your veteran and main all time subs for past 3 years by NOT listening to them anywhere. Not on these forums, not on reddit, not on podcasts. And soon, you'll find your numbers lowering in terms of veteran members/founders as well. You've completely ignored our PvP and PVE OPs requests.

 

By the time you guys realize what you did, its going to be too late. GG.

 

--

 

And no, I'm not threatening or being out of line. I really do want to know which idiot is making decisions that actually STOPS this game from progressing. Getting a short burst of new players is NOT growing. You may be an MMORPG, but you still are an MMO - and that's what even sells this out, infact, its the best way to get subs and get people glued. You guys have massively ignored this aspect and soon ARE going to realize this.

 

As a supporter of this game for such a long time, it really hurts me to see some complete idiot call these shots off and destroy this MMO, because it truely has the franchise and the capability to be the best - just idiots calling the decisions here is the main issue.

Edited July 10, 2015 by Jedi-Elora

[Ashlack]

I didn't read everything but I hop somebody could answer my question. Do we have any official information about about the missing flahpoints. Apparently Kaon and Lost Island only get harmode and the Collicoid War Game isn't there at all ? Is it a mistake or is it intended ? And if so, why ?

[Ghisallo]

This game bombed hard when it was mainly story based. MMO content and the cartel market saved it. (New ops/new pvp content/new areas/new gear/MMO expansion, all within 10 months. The end of SWTOR's first year and its second year was epic) Looks as if the game is going to bomb again...Subscription cancelled; moving on to a MMO.

 

And the response to this was "oh that was two years ago" as if there has been some sea change in player dynamics etc. There hasn't been but they need something they can pretend is logical to support the fact their personal desire is being fulfilled.

 

I think people miss the following. 1. A lot of people don't see any sense in subscribing for what amounts to a single player experience. Why pay 15 bucks a month when you can one and done? 2. The microtransaction model makes A LOT of money off of passes for OPs and FPS, to hear around gear restrictions, exp boosts etc. So even if people are right and it is only this tiny minority that enjoys end game (which has been proven false time and again) they have a disproportionate financial impact as they are either subbing or paying to get around their lack of subscriptions.

 

Now I said that this group is not a small minority... This does NOT mean they are a majority. Let me explain what I mean there, I think some people assume I am saying raiders are a majority.

 

First... News flash... If you identify yourself by a specific style of content, in other words you are "just a raider... just a soloer... JUST a PvPer.... Etc." you are part of a minority. The whole "raiders are a small minority" or raiders are 1%" trope is really, imo, just an attempt by the speaker to mask the fact that they realize they too are a minority. We see the term minority often as a prejorative, that a minority should or does have fewer rights, so if I am a minority I have to make that guy over there appear as if they are part of an even smaller minority to justify my superiority.

 

Many players, most in my experience, dabble in a little bit everything, maybe avoiding 1 content type entirely. You have the PvEr who HATES PvP or the guy (or gal) who does everything but raid etc. As such lack of anyone of those types of content, including OPs, hurts the casual player too not the stereotypical hardcore raider that trope uses to scapegoat.

 

As an example at launch, yes, the hardcore OPs Runner said "single op cleared....nothing to do." However the many a casual player also said "got as far in the one OP as we can, nothing else to do for the week".

 

Having more than one OP is important for that casual player because they can get to underlurker, know that he is a roadblock, get a few pulls in THEN move over to ravagers and progress there because, lets be honest, you can only bang your head against the same mob so many times before you need a break...the extra mobs in the other OP provide that break.

 

New endgame content is JUST as important as new story. For an MMO to succeed you need both. And BTW BW is NOT unique in story. They are unique in terms of consequences of decisions and voice acted cut scenes but ALL MMOs have story. If you go all in one way or the other, you run the risk that has been the doom of many an MMO... You break the cardinal rule.... "Cause no emo.". The trick of an MMO is to keep everyone kinda annoyed. Annoyed people still play, playing people still pay. If you make one specific sub group genuinely happy and feel like a special little snowflake you inevitably serious PO some other group. PO'd people do not play and thus do not pay and with how SWtOR has set up their financial model pissing off the endgame player, even the casual one, carries disproportionate risk.

Edited July 10, 2015 by Ghisallo

[Jedi-Elora]

For an MMO to succeed you need both.

Exactly my friend. Spot on.

[darthisraphel]

Eh, as long as It's not like the wait for Siege of orgrimmar to end, I think I'll be fine.

[RiVaN_]

No, *I* enjoy all aspects of the game. You clearly do not, or else you would be fine with no new operations.

 

Again Speak for yourself.

 

I have multiple characters of each advanced class and have at least 2 toons on every North American server except the RP servers and 20 toons on my primary server. I stopped doing side quests about my 5th time through each planet, they are committed to memory at this point.

I Have enjoyed the story multiple times per class up to end game and then all the additional stories that follow. I spacebar nothing and typically level without TS turned on. I do all of my crafting leveling and gain Valor Rank 50 on all of my toons before reaching end game. I do the space missions at level and weekly thereafter and make sure to always upgrade my ship components so that I can do all of the space missions at least once a week on any toon that I feel like doing them on. I have several maxed out Star Fighters for GSF and play both Imp and Pub GSF several nights a week.

 

I do all of the Flashpoints at Level, in HM and repeatedly weekly and while leveling up a toon. And I have all of the achievements for every flashpoint (except the broken ones...). I have done the Rishi and Yavin stories on every toon. When watching a cutscene I often escape out and try different conversation choices so that I get to say the closest thing that I would actually say in that situation. I engage in Endgame PvP on all of my toons and even jump into ranked when that cue actually pops. I have done everything in this game many, many, many times and have most of it committed to memory.

The majority of the content that you are saying people need to take more time to enjoy is stale after 3 years of enjoying the same stuff that was here at launch. I can only watch reruns of my favorite tv show so many times before it stops being enjoyable. The same is true of SWTOR. We are not all the same, if you could take a moment to stop trying to lord yourself over other people and realize that we are not cookie cutter gamers and that many of us have been playing this content over and over and over. Some of us for 4 hours a day nearly every day and now what we have is getting old and boring. Raids and PvP are how we keep enjoying the game. SWTOR has 8 fantastic class stories a Meh story on Makeb, a fun story in the Forged Alliances and a cool story in SoR. I have no doubt that KoTFE will be fun, but it will become tiresome after about the 5th time through and there will be no other new content to break up the monotony. Just the same old Ops and FP's that I have down to muscle memory because I have ran them several times a week for 3 years.

 

So stop acting like you are better than everyone else for 5 min and look at the reality of what is happening. They are giving us 9 chapters of story right? Unless KoTFE has about 1460 hours of brand new playable content a lot of people are going to get really bored really fast. Then they will leave and go play other games taking their subscription and cartel market money with them. If enough people leave then the big wigs at BW and EA will give a knee jerk reaction and either force crappy content that isn't ready yet to be released or they will start drawing the game to a close. If we start to see more server merges and such then I would start looking for a new game to play.

[Tashia]

I think we all need to sit back and be glad we don't have the problems Daybreak Games (formerly Sony / SoE )

is having right now -- it's no fun for these players ( and on a raid night too ! )

Count your blessings .....

 

 

http://eq2wire.com/

[IslanderRebel]

Again Speak for yourself.

 

I have multiple characters of each advanced class and have at least 2 toons on every North American server except the RP servers and 20 toons on my primary server. I stopped doing side quests about my 5th time through each planet, they are committed to memory at this point.

I Have enjoyed the story multiple times per class up to end game and then all the additional stories that follow. I spacebar nothing and typically level without TS turned on. I do all of my crafting leveling and gain Valor Rank 50 on all of my toons before reaching end game. I do the space missions at level and weekly thereafter and make sure to always upgrade my ship components so that I can do all of the space missions at least once a week on any toon that I feel like doing them on. I have several maxed out Star Fighters for GSF and play both Imp and Pub GSF several nights a week.

 

I do all of the Flashpoints at Level, in HM and repeatedly weekly and while leveling up a toon. And I have all of the achievements for every flashpoint (except the broken ones...). I have done the Rishi and Yavin stories on every toon. When watching a cutscene I often escape out and try different conversation choices so that I get to say the closest thing that I would actually say in that situation. I engage in Endgame PvP on all of my toons and even jump into ranked when that cue actually pops. I have done everything in this game many, many, many times and have most of it committed to memory.

The majority of the content that you are saying people need to take more time to enjoy is stale after 3 years of enjoying the same stuff that was here at launch. I can only watch reruns of my favorite tv show so many times before it stops being enjoyable. The same is true of SWTOR. We are not all the same, if you could take a moment to stop trying to lord yourself over other people and realize that we are not cookie cutter gamers and that many of us have been playing this content over and over and over. Some of us for 4 hours a day nearly every day and now what we have is getting old and boring. Raids and PvP are how we keep enjoying the game. SWTOR has 8 fantastic class stories a Meh story on Makeb, a fun story in the Forged Alliances and a cool story in SoR. I have no doubt that KoTFE will be fun, but it will become tiresome after about the 5th time through and there will be no other new content to break up the monotony. Just the same old Ops and FP's that I have down to muscle memory because I have ran them several times a week for 3 years.

 

So stop acting like you are better than everyone else for 5 min and look at the reality of what is happening. They are giving us 9 chapters of story right? Unless KoTFE has about 1460 hours of brand new playable content a lot of people are going to get really bored really fast. Then they will leave and go play other games taking their subscription and cartel market money with them. If enough people leave then the big wigs at BW and EA will give a knee jerk reaction and either force crappy content that isn't ready yet to be released or they will start drawing the game to a close. If we start to see more server merges and such then I would start looking for a new game to play.

 

 

i'm taking a couple days off for the first two days of early access and heaven help me, I plan on blowing right through the story line on pub side then imp side.

Ziost part 1 & 2 were complete jokes and seeing how we get 9 chapters, the only thing going to be a challenge for me is staying awake.

Oricon and makeb's challenge when they came out barely lasted a couple hours.

After my first two characters completed it, every other character I ran through those two planets were sleepwalking through it.

Same for Rishi/yavin 4.

And if servers merge, I like you will be looking for something else to go have fun with.

[dontbeswg]

I

 

So, this is good news actually. Veterans know the content and will be able to guide newbies through it.

That;s how I see it.

Ahh, and I will be finally able to go thru Foundry and Maelstrom Prison with my low lvl alts! because doing them now via GF is IMPOSSIBLE and they are vital to the story.

 

 

 

how will that happen when the vets are no longer playing this game?

[dontbeswg]

When I saw this post this morning it had only 8 pages and now its over 50 pages of mostly anger at these latest updates. I hope BW and the devs take notice that ppl are not happy about this. We want new ops not stories (not even class story, just 1 size fits all story). Who is going to pay 15 bucks a month to play single player RPG ("Kotor3"). When we want to play an MMO that means end game progression. How is that hard to understand?

 

They better hurry because I'm very much wanting to pull my sub right now.

[dontbeswg]

I am saddened by the lack of operations being announced.

I am Angry that the lack of Nightmare hasn’t been announced for Temple of Sacrifice and Ravagers.

I am happy that the level cap is getting increased and that we’ll be getting new abilities and hopefully will provide me with new reason to play.

I am excited to see if Bioware, who has been known for story telling of some of the highest calibre can build a new all original story.

I am hopeful that they can bring a great story back to the game without phoning it in like they did with Makeb and Rishi and Yavin and Ziost. I want a storyline that will be unique to me.

I am looking forward to seeing the older operations brought up to 65 and them being relevant again and dropping gear that will be up-to-date.

I will stay subbed for at least till November and will see what this has in store.

 

I'm going to grab up the swag and if there isn't a new ops by November I'm selling my account and never coming back.

[BadOrb]

Okay I have read/skimmed through 38 pages of this thread. I haven't seen anyone discuss a possible huge problem. There was no mention of the old trinity flashpoint's pre level 50. So are they still going to be around ? Or is the option for low levels only tactical flashpoint's ? If it's the later then bye bye to a lot of people actually being able to heal or tank , when they get to level 50 to do the HM flashpoint's. It's quite a serious matter.

 

Don't get me wrong I do enjoy tactical's because they are different and do require a team to work differently from the trinity ones. Which a lot of people don't realise then proceed to let a tank die because no one pressed a healing station.

 

Oh plus iv'e wanted golden fury in some sort of GF since it came out , nice one.

 

Cheers,

 

BadOrb.

[RiVaN_]

I know, no one will see my opinion, but, heck, I do not care.

 

I am very fond of the decision made.

and I am AWARE that it will discourage the so-called "hardcore raiders".

But overall it is a good decision, because the majority of players are NOT hardcore raiders.

I myself, was never playing MMOs, until this one.

Remembering how much criticism it received at the beginning, I was thinking it will soon close, but fortunately that is not the case.

 

I think it is just a business decision, because either Bioware or EA tehy have hard data and they see clearly HOW the players are playing the game and where the strongest population. It never was hardcore raider focused gave, nor "world pvp.

Both are NOT my cup of tea, I simply do not see any point of 100 people fighting against each other, nor I see the point of doing the same operation 70th time to gather one more piece of better gear. I just cannot stand it.

Ofc I accept some level for repetitiveness, but for God sake, not THAT MUCH.

 

Although I have done all available OPs, some more, some less, but I always try to run through the content few times to learn how to do it. Once I know it, thank you. Now I can help others.

 

So, this is good news actually. Veterans know the content and will be able to guide newbies through it.

That;s how I see it.

Ahh, and I will be finally able to go thru Foundry and Maelstrom Prison with my low lvl alts! because doing them now via GF is IMPOSSIBLE and they are vital to the story.

 

 

Good move Bioware!

 

The problem with your logic is that, unless you find folks like me and some of my guildmates, most of the veterans that will still be here will be the the ones who were always carried through the content and have no clue how the mechanics work, what the tanks are supposed to do and how the healers need to prioritize.

 

Us "hardcore raiders" you want to criticize are the ones who make the guide videos and figure out the mechanics and pass that knowledge on the the masses. Without (once we all leave as you predict) the hardcore raiders and the folks who spend most of their play time fighting HM bosses around who is going to show you how to beat these fights?

There may not be many "hardcore raiders" left in this game and there will be fewer by Christmas, but the role we play in assisting the community as a whole in learning the mechanics is one that you will miss when it is gone.

 

I am by no means an elitist, you can talk to any of my guildmates about that one, but after being a member of a raid team for a little over 2 years now I understand that the developers don't make boss fight guides and videos, neither do casual gamers. It's the Ops teams and the hardcore raiders that post their kill videos and strategies. If a developer isn't creating new operations and raids then they haven't given the Raiders a reason to continue to pay them a subscription and to keep playing the game. They will leave and there will be no experianced players left that have the chops to guide you through NiM Dread Fortress or even NiM EC for that matter.

[GrandHighAdmiral]

For the sake of my time and (mostly) sanity, I'm going to skip reading the other 57 pages of replies here. And while I hope you're reading this Eric and/or George, I'm really sorry that you have to wade through what I'm guessing is a toxic swamp of poorly-written outrage. Don't worry, I'm here to save the day! (that's a joke; others have probably said something very similar.)

 

I'm really excited about all the old content being bumped to level 65, and it needs to be done! I'm sure it's also more work than it may seem to re-balance everything to a new level, but I appreciate it because I really enjoy the old content as well - so it's great that it will be non-trivial again.

 

However, I'm sure you anticipated the disappointment over the "no new Ops" announcement, but maybe not the degree of disappointment? I lead a progression raid team, and this announcement may actually spell the end of my team - just as the last drought of new Ops ended my last team (and guild!) I'm not being melodramatic, that's just the way progression raiding works. The progression itself is a large part of what people enjoy about progression raiding, and playing old Ops - even if they are suddenly hard again - doesn't offer the same sense of "progression" as learning completely new fights. I appreciate the quality of raids we've had, and I understand that quality takes time, but the pace of new Operations indicates a lack of staff, which indicates either a lack of funding or a lack of interest at the management level.

 

Since EA has pointed to SWTOR as a major profit source, I suspect the issue is interest rather than funding. To the managers then, who I suspect are looking at the number of players who actually raid at the Hard/Nightmare mode level and deciding it isn't important, consider two things:

 

First, progression raiding is a bit like a flagship product. Companies often sell flagship products at a loss because it increases the appeal of the lower-end, profitable products. Progression raiding may represent a smaller percentage of players, but those are also the players that most support the community: theory-crafters, fan sites, and - most importantly - guild leadership. I've been in three guilds since launch, and two of the three collapsed as a direct result of progression raiders leaving the game because of a lack of progression content. One shortly after launch, during the Dark Days, and the second when DF and DP were about a year old with nothing on the horizon. We had many non-raiding, active members who also left the game when the guild leadership all but vanished. It's not that progression raiders are more important people - in the philosophical sense - but our presence or absence has a larger impact on the community than the numbers alone may indicate.

 

Second, progression raiding is a critical-mass type of activity. If you can't get eight (good) players together for a raid, then nobody gets to raid. Raid participation isn't linear; if there are seven people on the server who want to raid, then 0% of the people who want to raid are going to get to raid. If 799 people want to raid, then 99% (792) of the people who want to raid will get to raid. In other words, since both quality and frequency of new operations determines how many players want to raid, a higher percentage of players will participate in progression raiding when new operations come along more frequently. To put it yet another way, devoting fewer resources to developing operations due to lower participation is a self-fulfilling prophecy - a downward cycle - because it ensures that even those players who do still want to raid have a harder time finding enough other players with whom to raid.

 

So, for damage-control, please consider answering a few questions (with favorable answers!) while people are still around to hear you say it.

 

First, when are we going to see Nightmare-mode ToS and Ravagers? (The correct answer is "this summer", next best would be "4.0 @ level 65"

 

Second, we need to hear you say that new operations will be coming ASAP after 4.0, and that you haven't given up on progression raiding. Names and/or Episode/Patch numbers would be ideal, since it makes people more likely to believe you and gives us targets.

 

I really enjoy this game, and I play it over other MMOs because of the story - so I'm really excited about Knights of the Fallen Empire - but I play an MMO rather than single-player games because it offers more to do than just a single-player story. Like many others, the main thing I do other than story content is raiding. Without raiding, why bother with the inherent challenges of an MMO over single-player games?

 

EDIT: One little suggestion: there will be enough HM Flashpoints in 4.0 to comfortably generate two tiers of difficulty. Take at least a handful of the re-balanced flashpoints, separate them into a separate group-finder category, and balance them much tighter than the others. Original Lost Island-level difficulty, or like Blood Hunt HM now. This is could be an excellent stepping-stone into raiding, and give raiders something else to do to satisfy the need for a challenge. (And by separating these in groupfinder, we avoid the "fresh 65, still in greens, trying to run the hardest flashpoint in the game" problem, without balancing for the lowest-common denominator.)

Edited July 10, 2015 by GrandHighAdmiral

[MeatbagTitan]

Interesting to see the various responses- my perception is that for the most part this is trying to make ops more accessible to people who haven't or don't do them. There's a lot of frustration coming from the so called "elitist progression" community and talk like these are the people who are effected. For the top tier raiders left, yeah , it does, and I suspect more will continue to leave.

 

I think this also affects a lot of people that are more casual, SM focused raiders who have been around, gone through the older ops before (even if they don't have the same intensity and progression desires, these players like to have new things to do). Glad some people are motivated by this but I know a lot who aren't. In imagining if I want to stay subbed or not I just think about when the xpack comes out do I really want to be in EC, TFB, SV nim again week in, week out for my scheduled raids? I enjoy those ops and still go back and do them sometimes but as fun changes of pace. I just don't have the desire to jump into the fray and lead a team (and also don't have the patience for people's mistakes in those). The challenge would be a fun thing on the side I'd like to test myself- but not enough to energize me and keep me going.

 

Sub runs through 9/30, I've unsubbed to make sure I don't get another 6 mo subscription billed automatically. Probably will just play the extra month up to release to see what it's like and to get the rewards in case I want to come back to the game (with drastic changes away from this course set by KOTFE). I'd encourage people who are considering un-subbing to at least hit it, give them your feedback, and then whenver your sub time runs out re-up if you actually feel like playing. Right now this blog (and past experience with the ops) gives a pretty clear picture of what endgame PVE will look like upon KOTFE release. Ask yourself realistically if you want to pay $15 a month for that.

 

THere's much more to the game, yes, but for many players they find raiding a unique experience not duplicated by other things in gaming. Endgame group content keeps a lot of people around I think the population turned off by this is bigger than bioware anticipates possibly and unsubbing is really the way to make your voice heard.

 

EDIT: forgot to talk about that groupfinder, while convenient, is not what keeps long time subs raiding. We'll use it for quick ports or extra rewards if it's convenient but in my experience from the past few years (my positive ones that motivate me to stay subbed) PUGs get constructed in chat on fleet, with gear and achievement inspections. Friend lists, guildmates, etc, are another important part beyond just set raid teams. But again, it's player relationships and interactions, not solo players being mushed together by matchmaking.

 

Then again, I could be way off and the hope is to cast a wide net pulling in a lot of people and use new/returning players that cycle through (and the ones that have the appetite to replay the story a lot) to be more focused and sustained then the current base of longtime players who's tastes for content can be more challenging and demanding to keep up with.

Edited July 10, 2015 by MeatbagTitan
adding a further point