sumquy Posted July 9, 2015 Share Posted July 9, 2015 (edited) I would agree that a balance must be maintained but I am making the argument that it is currently IMBALANCED in favor of ranged. If BW is failing to reduce the litany of movement-impairment, for whatever reason that may be, then players most affected by it will call for some sort of immunity to such abilities, to provide a little bit of a reprieve. ya, it's all the other stuns and slows that are the problem! do you want to give up super root? or force choke? or push? or your aoe stun? oh, you need those? it's everyone else's abilities that need to be negated, right? it's not fair unless they are locked in place and unable to push you away? typical melee entitled ********. Edited July 9, 2015 by sumquy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EAbovee Posted July 9, 2015 Share Posted July 9, 2015 ya, it's all the other stuns and slows that are the problem! do you want to give up super root? or force choke? or push? or your aoe stun? oh, you need those? it's everyone else's abilities that need to be negated, right? it's not fair unless they are locked in place and unable to push you away? typical melee entitled ********. At no point in time did I ever say I would be unwilling to cede some of those abilities. In fact, I am more than willing because the guardian/jugg has too much of it as does almost every other AC. That is exactly what the hell I have been saying. So, your attempt at mudslinging is insubstantial. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sumquy Posted July 9, 2015 Share Posted July 9, 2015 (edited) my attempts at mudslinging are never "insubstantial" (***?). anywho, now we're right back where we started. without some way to stun or create distance, ranged lose to melee every time. op's suggestion, and your support of it, are the archtypical melee whine. it's not fair that he is shooting me from way over there and i can only swing this light stick 4 meters. i should be able to run up right next to him and stay there. waaaaa! waaaa! Edited July 9, 2015 by sumquy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EAbovee Posted July 9, 2015 Share Posted July 9, 2015 you realize that there's only one viable ranged CLASS in yolo, and three specs in 4s. of the three specs, only one is ideal in any particular comp. whereas melee has more viable and more ideal specs for both formats. I agree that CC in general is overdone here. but it's not as you say it is. Class imbalance is most assuredly an issue but that wasn't the point I was driving at. I'm speaking from the perspective that there is too much CC as you stated yourself. There is no doubt that the imbalances are having a widely-felt, detrimental impact on PvP, but we should not have the expectation that roots and slows be designed around these imbalances. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EAbovee Posted July 9, 2015 Share Posted July 9, 2015 my attempts at mudslinging are never "insubstantial" (***?). anywho, now we're right back where we started. without some way to stun or create distance, ranged lose to melee every time. op's suggestion, and your support of it, are the archtypical melee whine. it's not fair that he is shooting me from way over there and i can only swing this light stick 4 meters. i should be able to run up right next to him and stay there. waaaaa! waaaa! Indeed we are "right back where we started." Now refer back to this: However, based on your response, I think we may lie on irreconcilable sides of the fence here. I don't think there is much more of a point in discussing this with you. I have said my piece, as have you, and I do not wish to "feed the troll" any further. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zoldrim Posted July 9, 2015 Share Posted July 9, 2015 I agree with Azheo, although im new to pvp i find ranked on my jugg very annoying because of roots. Azheo is the best pvp jugg on TOFN right now so i think he knows very well what he is talking about and i've also felt that way in ranked. Bla bla buff us or nerf everyone else to the same lvl kthxbb. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sumquy Posted July 9, 2015 Share Posted July 9, 2015 Indeed we are "right back where we started." Now refer back to this: I don't think there is much more of a point in discussing this with you. I have said my piece, as have you, and I do not wish to "feed the troll" any further. then gthefo. you don't get to tell me to fo, ridicule my views, and then pretend like I'M the troll. refer back to this: FO Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ToMyMa Posted July 9, 2015 Share Posted July 9, 2015 I agree with Azheo, although im new to pvp i find ranked on my jugg very annoying because of roots. Azheo is the best pvp jugg on TOFN right now so i think he knows very well what he is talking about and i've also felt that way in ranked. Bla bla buff us or nerf everyone else to the same lvl kthxbb. Yeah, no. I'm sure some people would dispute that claim. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sumquy Posted July 9, 2015 Share Posted July 9, 2015 (edited) I agree with Azheo, although im new to pvp i find ranked on my jugg very annoying because of roots. Azheo is the best pvp jugg on TOFN right now so i think he knows very well what he is talking about and i've also felt that way in ranked. Bla bla buff us or nerf everyone else to the same lvl kthxbb. i don't know Azheo or presume to know what he knows, but i am skeptical that "the best pvp jugg on" any server is the most impartial party to answer whether or not juggs need a massive buff. Edited July 9, 2015 by sumquy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ToMyMa Posted July 9, 2015 Share Posted July 9, 2015 i don't know Azheo or presume to know what he knows, but i am skeptical that "the best pvp jugg on" any server is the most impartial party to answer whether or not juggs need a massive buff. Exactly. For all I care, X can be the best at Y, but that doesn't mean that they know what it needs. Sure, there's a great chance that they'll know, but it is not guarenteed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jadescythe Posted July 9, 2015 Share Posted July 9, 2015 Azheo is the best pvp jugg on TOFN right now so i think he knows very well what he is talking about and i've also felt that way in ranked. Let's assume you're correct that he is the best PvP Jugg on TOFN. He has a rating around 1900, with 200 wins and is 55th overall on the list behind 54 players playing mostly Sorc, PT, and Sin. Taking into consideration these are the three strongest ACs in solo ranked, where is the need for buffs? In fact, the top Mara and Sniper are only 4-5 spots ahead of the actual highest rated Jugg. So instead of buffing 5 ACs to match the top 3, much better to tone down the top 3 if you were going to balance based on solo ranked. Which you can't because Sorcs will always be extra strong in all DPS matches. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sumquy Posted July 9, 2015 Share Posted July 9, 2015 Let's assume you're correct that he is the best PvP Jugg on TOFN. He has a rating around 1900, with 200 wins and is 55th overall on the list behind 54 players playing mostly Sorc, PT, and Sin. Taking into consideration these are the three strongest ACs in solo ranked, where is the need for buffs? In fact, the top Mara and Sniper are only 4-5 spots ahead of the actual highest rated Jugg. So instead of buffing 5 ACs to match the top 3, much better to tone down the top 3 if you were going to balance based on solo ranked. Which you can't because Sorcs will always be extra strong in all DPS matches. the problem with toning down sorcs and assassins is that they are already weak dps in pve. pt could def us a nerf tho. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
helpmewin Posted July 9, 2015 Share Posted July 9, 2015 Any rage juggernauts buff? Ello? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SlightlySychotic Posted July 9, 2015 Share Posted July 9, 2015 the problem with toning down sorcs and assassins is that they are already weak dps in pve. pt could def us a nerf tho. I said it before: nerf their root immunities. Make it so they either cleanse OR grant immunity but not both. You do that and Knights and Warriors in general will greatly benefit. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Raansu Posted July 9, 2015 Share Posted July 9, 2015 the problem with toning down sorcs and assassins is that they are already weak dps in pve. pt could def us a nerf tho. Their dps isn't the issue. Its their ridiculous utility that they have. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MiaowZedong Posted July 10, 2015 Share Posted July 10, 2015 (edited) Their dps isn't the issue. Its their ridiculous utility that they have. Yes it is. The problem is that their damage only exceeds other classes for sustained AoE and this is absolutely never needed in raids. Dotspread as a mechanic is not highly rated in raids, in PvP it is a huge deal (for pressure strats, which in the current meta are dominant). Edited July 10, 2015 by MiaowZedong Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zoldrim Posted July 11, 2015 Share Posted July 11, 2015 Exactly. For all I care, X can be the best at Y, but that doesn't mean that they know what it needs. Sure, there's a great chance that they'll know, but it is not guarenteed. Lol Tanvir ... by this logic then who knows the problems? the 1 rating juggs? the 1k rating juggs? the snipers that dont play jugg at all? my mom? the devs that think its kinda balanced? ofc the truth about a class in pvp is known by the person with the most xp for that season, most games played and the most success aka Azheo and Arrow. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ToMyMa Posted July 11, 2015 Share Posted July 11, 2015 Lol Tanvir ... by this logic then who knows the problems? the 1 rating juggs? the 1k rating juggs? the snipers that dont play jugg at all? my mom? the devs that think its kinda balanced? ofc the truth about a class in pvp is known by the person with the most xp for that season, most games played and the most success aka Azheo and Arrow. Definitely not Azheo. He might be good at juggernaught, but I've seen him play other classes. It was not pretty. I'd much rather have someone who plays almost all, if not all, of the classes dictate what is to be buffed and what is to be nerfed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
foxmob Posted July 11, 2015 Share Posted July 11, 2015 (edited) Yes it is. The problem is that their damage only exceeds other classes for sustained AoE and this is absolutely never needed in raids. Dotspread as a mechanic is not highly rated in raids, in PvP it is a huge deal (for pressure strats, which in the current meta are dominant). I don't think it was so bad when every class had at least one viable dps spec for both pve and pvp. it does bother me inquis dots are considerably better than any other dot specs in the game and have been so good for so long that they're the FotY for any dps in pvp. personally, I think it's harder to make dots the better pvp spec because, generally speaking, burst and mobility are kings in pvp. BW did a lot of crazy stuff in order to make dots relevant in pvp, and at the end of the day, that still only made INQUISITOR dot specs waaay better than any others. Edited July 11, 2015 by foxmob Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DerSchneider Posted July 12, 2015 Share Posted July 12, 2015 Definitely not Azheo. He might be good at juggernaught, but I've seen him play other classes. It was not pretty. I'd much rather have someone who plays almost all, if not all, of the classes dictate what is to be buffed and what is to be nerfed. Don't be jealous. Azheo knows the point. I often play ranged classes, I played much with my jugg, and I agree with him completely. Maybe it's difficult to counter juggs as merc, but sorcs and snipers can do this easily. The ideal solution will be to buff merc defense and make jugg less vulnerable to roots. Some dot cleanse would be nice as well. PS: stop talking about 3 lives, it drives me mad. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
helpmewin Posted July 12, 2015 Share Posted July 12, 2015 (edited) Juggernauts are tanky, but 0 escapes and bad mobility. As for rage and his mobility, well intercede anti-root is usefull to "carry" some1 and nothing more. All rage mobility is second 10m charge and thats all. Some1 told dat they can trade H2full for mobility, well mb dat is, but this another nail into the rage spec. And my tho the main problem is dat not juggernauts have bad mobility, the main problem is dat others have too much mobility and kite tools. In my tho all juggernauts specs need a rebalance, coz i heard dat they far not top in PvE too. And coz combat team broke all class mechanic that works fine pre 3.0. Edited July 12, 2015 by helpmewin Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
foxmob Posted July 12, 2015 Share Posted July 12, 2015 well...I certainly disagree with giving juggs MORE immunities or anti-cc abils. but all of these threads are utterly pointless at this point. if 4.0 hits in octorber and they haven't already announced a potential change, I think it's highly unlikely to see anything happen from the ground up in the span of 3 months. but it's really the span of 1-2 months since you'd need to leave time BEFORE 4.0 for that patch to actually be live. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dkoo Posted July 12, 2015 Share Posted July 12, 2015 Juggernauts are tanky, but 0 escapes and bad mobility. As for rage and his mobility, well intercede anti-root is usefull to "carry" some1 and nothing more. All rage mobility is second 10m charge and thats all. Some1 told dat they can trade H2full for mobility, well mb dat is, but this another nail into the rage spec. And my tho the main problem is dat not juggernauts have bad mobility, the main problem is dat others have too much mobility and kite tools. In my tho all juggernauts specs need a rebalance, coz i heard dat they far not top in PvE too. And coz combat team broke all class mechanic that works fine pre 3.0. you have on idea what you're talking about lmao Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Raansu Posted July 12, 2015 Share Posted July 12, 2015 you have on idea what you're talking about lmao Maybe you can clue me in because what he typed wasn't legible to me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
helpmewin Posted July 12, 2015 Share Posted July 12, 2015 Maybe you can clue me in because what he typed wasn't legible to me. This is another agro boy. Juggernauts need a rebalance. In 2 words. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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