Buff Guardian / Juggernaut

[Anton_RUS]

Jugg is easy mode, the class for the noob. Its right in the middle of everything. Played well its a beast, played not well its sucks like anything would if not played well. Those of you asking for buffs just arent playing it well. 4v4 rated arenas are not the end all measurement of how well a class does. Its just a measurement of burst and survivabilty against burst.

 

Hence:

PT/VG high burst heavy armor

Sage/Sorc heals burst CC bubble

Sin/Shadow stealth burst CC dots dcds

 

these classes all have high burst and high damage absorb or survivability abilities

 

the rest of the classes arent quite as good for that but Juggs/Guards are right in the middle, they have some cc, heavy armor, midrange damage and the ONLY thing they really lack is the high run mobility some other classes have.

If there was any buff to Juggs it would need to be a speed boost or tiny damae increase and with they way they can leap around that might make them OP inside a WZ.

 

Any buff to juggs is gonna make them instantly FOTM. imo

 

I have a Jugg and a guardian, so its no sweat off my back if they buff it, but I just think they should be really carefull if they do. Seems fine as it is.

And where you see survivability vs burst? Enraged Defence don't work vs critical hits. If jugger is easy mode, why people can't play for this class? Also you forgot about operative class.)

Edited July 8, 2015 by Anton_RUS

[Vilanix]

It is almost breathtaking in the amount of lunacy in this thread. With all that is going on in this game you have the NERVE to whine about Jugg/Guard? <slapps you silly>

[Zoidrinali]

EDIT

Solo Ranked Avarages :

 

Rating	Wins 	#Plyrs	
1369	19392	463  	Powertech/Vanguard
1318	33664	726  	Sage/Sorcerer
1266	4764	145  	Commando/Mercenary
1263	5412	124  	Gunslinger/Sniper
1249	14833	371  	Operative/Scoundrel
1245	38124	877  	Assassin/Shadow
1218	15021	291  	Marauder/Sentinel
1196	20348	523  	Guardian/Juggernaut

 

So I'm confused, perhaps you can help me out, exactly what does the little table above meant to prove exactly? Are you really trying to say that going purely on that table assassins need a buff before mercs and snipers?

 

And then there's this one from Savej:

Only looking at characters with > 100 wins...

Ratings	Wins 	#Plyrs	
1753	7144	44	Powertech/Vanguard
1650	12882	73	Sage/Sorcerer
1602	1062	5	Commando/Mercenary
1560	5093	30	Operative/Scoundrel
1464	2365	12	Gunslinger/Sniper
1437	13311	78	Assassin/Shadow
1427	7304	35	Marauder/Sentinel
1283	6846	35	Guardian/Juggernaut

Again really? Does this mean that sins need a buff before mercs and snipers because 5 and 12 respectively have a higher averate rating than 78 assassins?

 

If that sounds insane then you need to rethink your logic about why jugs need a buff, if anything those tables show that there's an issue with mercs and snipers. Far lower numbers of those AC's are doing arena's and that's something which should be looked at more closely. Do jugs need a buff? No idea but these tables don't help to prove anything.

 

Where's a proper statistician when you could do with one....someone get hold of Ilmarian!

[jauvtus]

Hereby I ask every whining jugg to reroll for a mara. Then everyone who has the same or higher ranked rating as mara will receive a cookie from me and I'll be the first to make the devs buff jugg. Come, enjoy our 99% dmg reduction (survivability issues mas apply due to long CD and short duration), enjoy our (laughable) Annihilation healing, enjoy our CC immunities on Fury (not like you won't get globalled anyway...), enjoy the deadly (rofl) Carnage (Gore=autostun, possibly selfstun) and enjoy the ULTIMATE PREDATION (no, it does not grant MI immunity). All you need to give up is the strongest defCDs and non-healer class selfheals, your charge immunity, your heavy armor and a few other things... Totally worth it! You will even get 20% dmg red whenever you want to pop to!

Mara FTW!

 

Note: Utility taxes and dps vs. survivability may(=will) apply

[Azheon]

Well, when you still couldn't figure out how to play sorc after 400 matches on it, I'm kinda doubting if you even know how to play any class BUT juggernaught.

 

lol i never played sorcerer before, but managed to be tier 2 with my sorc at my first season, it is enough for me. karolinna had 1 rating player, there are many difference between she and me, so it means you have some pain, maybe because of i farm you even you play with your super premades ^^

 

Azheo, you can't win duel vs 2 juggernauts (or more) of our server and you think that you are the best =) And I'm not talking about those cases, when your guild make me lose on solo ranked.

 

i didn't say i am the best, i said i was the best rated. at duels, sometimes i win, sometimes you, it depends who started first and who crited more. in arenas, there is more thing to think, it needs more creativity : ).

 

you played with 2059 expertise and extra power & surge by using bugged gear and you rised 200, 300 ratings with it, you should got banned for this, if people deserve ban when they use buggs. it is low to do that, that's why i stopped, just waited it to be fixed. and you played as a skank too, you guarded your teammates even they are dps arenas and we have 11 ratings difference even you have 60 more wins than me and you still try to blame me because you lost with laylaylom against me. i lost many games with him too, he is not an experienced op, like i am not an experienced sorc, you won against me sometimes because of i couldn't open bubble like your russian friend evilinside couldn't open bubble in my team while i play against you. i lost with honour, you won many games by using bugged gear and guarding your teammates at dps games, if you are looking for a difference, it is this.

Edited July 8, 2015 by Azheon

[Savej]

just wanted to quote this too:

 

Its this right here, jugg is class for easy mode, a bad jugg is bad at the other classes more. So, the juggernaut is a bastion of the nub. The inexperienced player needing a class they can do well with. Thats why they are low on the leaderboards. A good player wrecks the room with a geared jugg.

 

People that win 100 ranked games are "nubs"? I don't think that word means what you think it does....

 

People like juggs/guardians becausd they're iconic - every movie and trailer for this game is a commercial for this ac. The people that want to do well without trying play sorcs.

[Smuglebunny]

I wasnt saying all people who play them are noob, i was just saying its a class noobs are attracted too. I have both a jugg and a guardian

[ToMyMa]

lol i never played sorcerer before, but managed to be tier 2 with my sorc at my first season, it is enough for me. karolinna had 1 rating player, there are many difference between she and me, so it means you have some pain, maybe because of i farm you even you play with your super premades ^^

 

 

 

i didn't say i am the best, i said i was the best rated. at duels, sometimes i win, sometimes you, it depends who started first and who crited more. in arenas, there is more thing to think, it needs more creativity : ).

 

you played with 2059 expertise and extra power & surge by using bugged gear and you rised 200, 300 ratings with it, you should got banned for this, if people deserve ban when they use buggs. it is low to do that, that's why i stopped, just waited it to be fixed. and you played as a skank too, you guarded your teammates even they are dps arenas and we have 11 ratings difference even you have 60 more wins than me and you still try to blame me because you lost with laylaylom against me. i lost many games with him too, he is not an experienced op, like i am not an experienced sorc, you won against me sometimes because of i couldn't open bubble like your russian friend evilinside couldn't open bubble in my team while i play against you. i lost with honour, you won many games by using bugged gear and guarding your teammates at dps games, if you are looking for a difference, it is this.

 

First off, it's rare that you beat me.

 

Second of all, even though I hate to side with Arrow's, I must say this: The extra expertise didn't do anything except buff healing a little, since the stats given by expertise have a hardcap at 2018 - and banning someone for using a gear piece would be petty. After all, BW might've done it to make the cybernetic gear attractive.

 

And I think you missed that we're trolling you

[Savej]

I wasnt saying all people who play them are noob, i was just saying its a class noobs are attracted too. I have both a jugg and a guardian

 

But amongst those who have won at least 100 ranked games each, juggs have the lowest avg rating by far. - def not a nub issue. And the best juggs aren't winning any "highest ranking" awards vs any other AC other than sniper maybe.

 

I think I have at least one of every AC @60 other than sorc - my sorc's still 55. I'll fix that sooner or later but I hate that "rapid tactical advance to the rear" strat in pvp....

Edited July 8, 2015 by Savej

[Anishor]

Maining a Veng Jugg, I don't find myself needing a buff.

Perhaps a DR on roots could be interesting (or make them count towards resolve, if they aren't already.)

 

 

Juggs have always been strong... always.

 

Veng jug was pretty weak before 1.9.

[SlightlySychotic]

The contradictions here are mindboggling.

Jugg is easy mode, the class for the noob. Its right in the middle of everything. Played well its a beast, played not well its sucks like anything would if not played well. Those of you asking for buffs just arent playing it well.

So, Juggs are "easy mode" but if they're not played perfectly then it's garbage. Do you not understand the meaning of the term "easy mode?"

 

4v4 rated arenas are not the end all measurement of how well a class does.

Sadly, they are. As the only form of rated, they are the only form of PvP that matters. This is a bit like a PvE player saying, "It's fine that you suck at Operations because you're just fine at Flash Points, overpowered really."

Listen, if they add ranked objective matches then I will shut up. About a great many things, in fact. Until then, I reserve the right to be troubled that my class tends to be garbage at the only form of ranked.

 

And then there's this which just hurts my brain:

Its just a measurement of burst and survivabilty against burst.

 

Hence:

PT/VG high burst heavy armor

Sage/Sorc heals burst CC bubble

Sin/Shadow stealth burst CC dots dcds

 

these classes all have high burst and high damage absorb or survivability abilities

 

the rest of the classes arent quite as good for that but Juggs/Guards are right in the middle, they have some cc, heavy armor, midrange damage and the ONLY thing they really lack is the high run mobility some other classes have.

If there was any buff to Juggs it would need to be a speed boost or tiny damae increase and with they way they can leap around that might make them OP inside a WZ.

 

Any buff to juggs is gonna make them instantly FOTM. imo

 

So since any sort of buff Juggernauts might receive would bring us up to the same level as the top tier classes, we can't have a buff. I could also throw in the fact that people keep confusing the terms "FOTM" and just "OP" but why bother?

 

Again, if they want to nerf those classes, fine. I can tell you exactly where to start: immersion and hydraulic overrides -- makes it too easy to kite melee classes. But nobody's crying out for nerfs for PTs, Sins, and Sorcs. So, again, until that happens I reserve the right to call out for a buff to Juggernauts AND to berate anyone who tries to argue that the class at the bottom of the leaderboards is somehow "just fine."

[Zoidrinali]

If there were a lot more snipers and mercs playing solo q you'd find out who really is the bottom of the leaderboards. Nothing I've seen here has proven the case that jugs are doing the worst in arena's and therefore needs a buff.

[Sancance]

And who are you, "top pvp player"?

 

I'm pretty sure nothing in my post referred to me being "top PvP player" lawl nice attempt troll.

[SlightlySychotic]

If there were a lot more snipers and mercs playing solo q you'd find out who really is the bottom of the leaderboards. Nothing I've seen here has proven the case that jugs are doing the worst in arena's and therefore needs a buff.

 

Then you simply haven't been paying attention. How many times did Savej post numbers showing that we're dead last by a pretty sizable margin? And, honestly, not counting myself I tend to see Juggernauts about as often as snipers and mercs now.

[Jadescythe]

Then you simply haven't been paying attention. How many times did Savej post numbers showing that we're dead last by a pretty sizable margin? And, honestly, not counting myself I tend to see Juggernauts about as often as snipers and mercs now.

 

You mean the numbers where there are 5 Mercs and 12 Snipers compared to 35 Juggs with 100+ wins. Or did you mean the one where there are 145 Mercs and 124 Snipers compared to 523 Juggs with 10+ wins? Clearly the fact that more players are playing more games on Jugg doesn't dillute the average pool or anything.

[Smuglebunny]

I think juggs need a big nerf, way too much survivability. Probably should take away that stun immunity on leap too. In fact warriors should all have medium armor, also...nah im trollin at this point..

 

hey i guess if you all want jugg buffs then fine. I have a jugg in full reaver. In fact I have at least one of every class, so I guess buff whatever. they just seem pretty strong

 

but nerf operatives i heard one killed someone the other day.

[BaineOs]

You mean the numbers where there are 5 Mercs and 12 Snipers compared to 35 Juggs with 100+ wins. Or did you mean the one where there are 145 Mercs and 124 Snipers compared to 523 Juggs with 10+ wins? Clearly the fact that more players are playing more games on Jugg doesn't dillute the average pool or anything.

 

+1

/5char

[unkkii]

First off, it's rare that you beat me.

 

Second of all, even though I hate to side with Arrow's, I must say this: The extra expertise didn't do anything except buff healing a little, since the stats given by expertise have a hardcap at 2018 - and banning someone for using a gear piece would be petty. After all, BW might've done it to make the cybernetic gear attractive.

 

And I think you missed that we're trolling you

 

i think you hate to side with anyone else than MVP buddys :D :D

[Anton_RUS]

lol i never played sorcerer before, but managed to be tier 2 with my sorc at my first season, it is enough for me. karolinna had 1 rating player, there are many difference between she and me, so it means you have some pain, maybe because of i farm you even you play with your super premades ^^

 

 

 

i didn't say i am the best, i said i was the best rated. at duels, sometimes i win, sometimes you, it depends who started first and who crited more. in arenas, there is more thing to think, it needs more creativity : ).

 

you played with 2059 expertise and extra power & surge by using bugged gear and you rised 200, 300 ratings with it, you should got banned for this, if people deserve ban when they use buggs. it is low to do that, that's why i stopped, just waited it to be fixed. and you played as a skank too, you guarded your teammates even they are dps arenas and we have 11 ratings difference even you have 60 more wins than me and you still try to blame me because you lost with laylaylom against me. i lost many games with him too, he is not an experienced op, like i am not an experienced sorc, you won against me sometimes because of i couldn't open bubble like your russian friend evilinside couldn't open bubble in my team while i play against you. i lost with honour, you won many games by using bugged gear and guarding your teammates at dps games, if you are looking for a difference, it is this.

 

Sometimes is the 30:2 in my favor? I take 200-300 rating with bug? Omg, lol. This is your friends from the guild told you that?) Seriously, I take all my rating with a bug) You just do not want to admit that you are not able to play Juggernaut

Edited July 8, 2015 by Anton_RUS

[Anishor]

You mean the numbers where there are 5 Mercs and 12 Snipers compared to 35 Juggs with 100+ wins. Or did you mean the one where there are 145 Mercs and 124 Snipers compared to 523 Juggs with 10+ wins? Clearly the fact that more players are playing more games on Jugg doesn't dillute the average pool or anything.

 

I find it amusing that the ones on the bottom are fighting amongst themselves whlie ignoring the ones on the top ( Sorcs, Sins, and PTs )

[SlightlySychotic]

You mean the numbers where there are 5 Mercs and 12 Snipers compared to 35 Juggs with 100+ wins. Or did you mean the one where there are 145 Mercs and 124 Snipers compared to 523 Juggs with 10+ wins? Clearly the fact that more players are playing more games on Jugg doesn't dillute the average pool or anything.

 

Dude, stop. No one here is saying that Sniper and Mercs aren't in a bad place. All we're saying is that Juggernauts are in just as a bad a place and the number show it. The difference is that when Snipers and Mercs cry for buffs people let them talk; when Juggs call out for buffs we get derided and called bads. Hell, people even claim we're top tier even though, again, we tend to come in dead last in the rating averages. It's not our fault that the snipers and mercs went home while Juggernauts keep plugging away at mediocrity.

[Savej]

You mean the numbers where there are 5 Mercs and 12 Snipers compared to 35 Juggs with 100+ wins. Or did you mean the one where there are 145 Mercs and 124 Snipers compared to 523 Juggs with 10+ wins? Clearly the fact that more players are playing more games on Jugg doesn't dillute the average pool or anything.

 

The reason there are fewer is because there are fewer people picking that class.

[Jadescythe]

Dude, stop. No one here is saying that Sniper and Mercs aren't in a bad place. All we're saying is that Juggernauts are in just as a bad a place and the number show it. The difference is that when Snipers and Mercs cry for buffs people let them talk; when Juggs call out for buffs we get derided and called bads. Hell, people even claim we're top tier even though, again, we tend to come in dead last in the rating averages. It's not our fault that the snipers and mercs went home while Juggernauts keep plugging away at mediocrity.

 

The difference is the POTENTIAL of the class. Just because the average player is bad at playing it, doesn't mean the class is bad. If one person can succeed over the course of 200 games, then it's obviously possible to do so with the class. Simply because any one person cannot do so doesn't mean the class needs buffs. You can even look at those lists of ratings being posted with Sins in the lower half on average. Clearly that class needs buffs

 

Feel free to take a look through some of the 1500-1600 rated Juggs and see how few wins they have (30-40). If they were playing 200-400 games like the other people at the top of the ratings, they'd be 1800 or 1900 as well. They aren't PTs, Sorcs, or Sins, but everyone knows those classes are a bit stronger than they should be atm.

[ToMyMa]

i think you hate to side with anyone else than MVP buddys :D :D

 

Yeah...? Of course I'll side with my friends.

[Jadescythe]

The reason there are fewer is because there are fewer people picking that class.

 

You're comparing the average of 5 people to the average of 35 people. And the average of 500 people to the average of 150 people. Clearly the only people getting 10 wins, let alone 100, with a Merc are the players who are the best at the class. Obviously the average rating in those categories will be higher than the perceived strong classes that anyone who isn't good picks unless the class is so easy that literally anyone can make it perform at the highest level.