lironBD Posted July 2, 2015 Share Posted July 2, 2015 just started get back on the pvp map. Almost full exhumed set. I'm playing Sorcerer madness right now. Against most classes I can handle myself alright but vs mercs and operatives I'm having some troubles. Mercs, They usually use arsenal tree and will make smart use of terrain to break line of sight, then they use their rotation to insta-activate most of their abilities. If I'm lucky I manage to interrupt their unload or whatever this thing is called now but iirc they get a proc to finish its CD so not very beneficial. Operatives, I keep my "invincible bubble" for this guys. out of stealth will land behind me chain stun me and STAB STAB STAB STAB all over the place. I only manage to survive if I can use force speed (with the perk) to get out of melee range and pop WZ adrenal\medpac quickly in order to counter attack. I'm talking 1vs1 here. I try to stay near the group most of the time as with teamplay it's much more fluent, but there are times when you are alone. tips ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NikSunrider Posted July 2, 2015 Share Posted July 2, 2015 Mercs - keep your stunbreaker next to your bubble, and reserve it for them. Can't activate bubble if they have electronet on you. Another thing, Arsenal is a burst spec, Madness is a DOT spec. Your TTK (time to kill) is significantly more than theirs. So play it smart! They can LOS, but so can you! Pop out from a corner, hit them with Creeping Terror/Affliction, pop back in. Kite them around it. Get them into the open, do your Lightning channel, get off your Demolish, run and hide. For operatives, the issue is pretty-much the same as with mercs. Keep force-speed handy, and also try to hit them with a stun or snare yourself. They are a bit more mobile than you, but you can still kikte them and Affliction/CT are still very strong DOTs taht will ruin their day. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lironBD Posted July 2, 2015 Author Share Posted July 2, 2015 I got the "Sap Strength" and the shorter cd on the 4 sec stun which is quite handy. Thing is I'm pondering whether I should have the snare on overload or stun(flash) on the bubble. Also, I like madness as I can get both damage and healing points at the same time. But how's lightning compared? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chimerako Posted July 2, 2015 Share Posted July 2, 2015 Go for the kb root imho the stun bubble works well if your facing constant melee pressure. Its useless if most of your opponets are ranged though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zZeroAgent Posted July 2, 2015 Share Posted July 2, 2015 they both can heal through your dots and burst you down don't even bother, you're always gonna lose unless they're bad. just run back to your teammates Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
foxmob Posted July 2, 2015 Share Posted July 2, 2015 Mercs - keep your stunbreaker next to your bubble, and reserve it for them. Can't activate bubble if they have electronet on you. Another thing, Arsenal is a burst spec, Madness is a DOT spec. Your TTK (time to kill) is significantly more than theirs. So play it smart! They can LOS, but so can you! Pop out from a corner, hit them with Creeping Terror/Affliction, pop back in. Kite them around it. Get them into the open, do your Lightning channel, get off your Demolish, run and hide. For operatives, the issue is pretty-much the same as with mercs. Keep force-speed handy, and also try to hit them with a stun or snare yourself. They are a bit more mobile than you, but you can still kikte them and Affliction/CT are still very strong DOTs taht will ruin their day. probably not a good idea to try to solo an arsenal merc. they can have a steady 30% dot dr just for sacrificing one gcd every 12s. and if they took thrill of the hunt, you're prolly gonna be in a world of hurt trying to kite. if I were you, I'd avoid trying to dink and dunk an arsenal. they also have access to an instant second heal (until 3.3). :2cents: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Quarast Posted July 2, 2015 Share Posted July 2, 2015 out of stealth will land behind me chain stun me and STAB STAB STAB STAB all over the place. Please teach me how to chain stun with ONE 4m hard stun Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
QuiveringPotato Posted July 2, 2015 Share Posted July 2, 2015 Please teach me how to chain stun with ONE 4m hard stun Crippling Slice keyboard stunlock 2 stronk, pls nerf Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Obviousenuendo Posted July 2, 2015 Share Posted July 2, 2015 they both can heal through your dots and burst you down don't even bother, you're always gonna lose unless they're bad. just run back to your teammates 7/10 5/char Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ForceWelder Posted July 2, 2015 Share Posted July 2, 2015 To the OP, I'm curious which server you are on if you are only concerned about the Imp classes. You didn't even mention the Repub commando or scoundrel. PoT5 perhaps .... But with that said, Mercs / mandos require line of sight on pretty much anything that can hurt you. Against one, you need to avoid the LOS and use any DOTs you have to loosen them up. The DPS off heals are actually pretty weak. But in a one on one fight, the odds are not in your favor if they get first hit from range. They will hit you with enet and wail away on you while you try to close the distance. So you got to get out of range or break line of sight. But enet users fall into two categories. There are the ones who use it as soon as the CD is over and then there are the players who keep it in reserve for when melee pounce on them. The logic of the second group being that as the melee are on top of them beating away on the merc / mando, enet is taking its toll while they are also doing their combat damage. This class biggest weakness is their inability to break focus fire. They have no stealth, burst run, or immunity shield. They have a crap load of utilities but most are single target only. Against two players they fold like a house of cards in a wind storm. I always tell people in a one on one fight, with my merc / mando, you better be ready to take a beating. Even if I lose the fight, you will think twice about attacking me and I'm going for blood as soon as I respawn. You want to take a merc / mando down, the first thing is not to do it alone. Merc / mandos work best in the rear doing full support. So odds are they aren't going to chase you if you fall back behind your team. Your best bet when they get the jump on you is to disengage as quickly as possible and back up to your team. Merc / mandos aren't going to chase after you. Getting in the middle of the fray is how they get killed quickly. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kakisback Posted July 2, 2015 Share Posted July 2, 2015 if I were you, I'd avoid trying to dink and dunk an arsenal. they also have access to an instant second heal (until 3.3). :2cents: Until 3.3? It's just a different heal being made instant. Arsenal (and io) will be better ... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Floplag Posted July 2, 2015 Share Posted July 2, 2015 Until 3.3? It's just a different heal being made instant. Arsenal (and io) will be better ... Not really true... i tested this on pts and we are given a lesser heal with the same cost. to say we will be better is wishful thinking. The only way its better is in conjunctions with certain other skills and utils that will allow you to chain a few things and cheese the costs but you give up a lot of GCDs and damage to do so Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mmmbuddah Posted July 2, 2015 Share Posted July 2, 2015 (edited) just started get back on the pvp map. Almost full exhumed set. I'm playing Sorcerer madness right now. Against most classes I can handle myself alright but vs mercs and operatives I'm having some troubles. Mercs, They usually use arsenal tree and will make smart use of terrain to break line of sight, then they use their rotation to insta-activate most of their abilities. If I'm lucky I manage to interrupt their unload or whatever this thing is called now but iirc they get a proc to finish its CD so not very beneficial. Operatives, I keep my "invincible bubble" for this guys. out of stealth will land behind me chain stun me and STAB STAB STAB STAB all over the place. I only manage to survive if I can use force speed (with the perk) to get out of melee range and pop WZ adrenal\medpac quickly in order to counter attack. I'm talking 1vs1 here. I try to stay near the group most of the time as with teamplay it's much more fluent, but there are times when you are alone. tips ? If you are doing MAdness / Balance you should be Los'ing them too, you have some of the most powerful dots in the game, use that to your advantage, arsenal mercs have to see you in order to damage you, if you stay behind cover while they take damage they will either be forced to attack or walk away. As for operatives, run for the hills as a dot spec, they have two ways to purge your dots and have invincibility mode every 10 seconds for 3 seconds. So best bet is to go to your team mates. Edited July 2, 2015 by mmmbuddah Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kakisback Posted July 2, 2015 Share Posted July 2, 2015 Not really true... i tested this on pts and we are given a lesser heal with the same cost. to say we will be better is wishful thinking. The only way its better is in conjunctions with certain other skills and utils that will allow you to chain a few things and cheese the costs but you give up a lot of GCDs and damage to do so It's gonna be better. I tested on pts too. Spammable heal that actually heals (as opposed to med shot), and builds stacks, is underrated. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheJollyRogers Posted July 2, 2015 Share Posted July 2, 2015 (edited) Not really true... i tested this on pts and we are given a lesser heal with the same cost. to say we will be better is wishful thinking. The only way its better is in conjunctions with certain other skills and utils that will allow you to chain a few things and cheese the costs but you give up a lot of GCDs and damage to do so Definitely like having Rapid Scan more. Can't tell you the amount of times Healing Scan + Emergency Scan were on CD and I was spamming pathetic Kolto Shots to try and not die. I just wish Rapid Scan was more cost-effective heat wise. Edited July 2, 2015 by TheJollyRogers Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
foxmob Posted July 2, 2015 Share Posted July 2, 2015 Until 3.3? It's just a different heal being made instant. Arsenal (and io) will be better ... the way it works now for IO and Arsenal, there is an instant heal (4-8k) and a cast heal (5-10k). healers have both of those heals plus a smaller, shorter cast heal (I think it's also 4-8k). currently, IO always has to cast the big heal, but arsenal can proc it so that it's instant. neither dps can spam any heal (the cast has a 13s cd). 3.3 is getting rid of the big heal and replacing it with the small heal that the medic spec has. but unlike the current cast heal, the weaker replacement will not have a cd. what this means is nothing to an IO while in the heat of combat because he never had the advantage of an instant in the first place. However, Arsenal did. So assuming that Arsenal keeps the instant proc, it's still a net loss for them because instead of proc'ing a big instant, they're proc'ing a smaller instant. the advantage to the change is it makes off healing possible (but expensive), and it makes self healing while los possible but expensive. however, it's very much a nerf to Arsenal, because who would trade a second med pack for a weaker cast heal, even the heal has no cd? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lironBD Posted July 2, 2015 Author Share Posted July 2, 2015 I'm on Red Eclipse and I've refered to the imp names without any reason. It's mirrored classes. thanks for the tips guys. now, I'm kinda starting to gear almost full exhumed set. what kind of set I should have before tackling ranked? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Floplag Posted July 2, 2015 Share Posted July 2, 2015 It's gonna be better. I tested on pts too. Spammable heal that actually heals (as opposed to med shot), and builds stacks, is underrated. except you can really spam it... resource costs is too high in comparison. Otherwise you are correct. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
foxmob Posted July 2, 2015 Share Posted July 2, 2015 It's gonna be better. I tested on pts too. Spammable heal that actually heals (as opposed to med shot), and builds stacks, is underrated. I think you're missing the point of why it's bad. yes. it is good to have a (costly) spammable cast. but that was always a QoL issue. the biggest problem a merc has is dealing with burst dmg (focus), and having to cast anything while under such focus is unreallistic. on top of that, you cannot cast the 3.3 heal while on the move. there are definitely benefits to the change. it puts merc offhealing more in line with what sorcs have always been able to do (minus the team bubbles), and if the merc manages to find some los while in combat, he doesn't have to sit there with his thumb up his arse mashing med shots for an hour. but as far as arsenal/gunnery is concerned, this is a nerf. they're trading a powerful instant for (at best) a weaker one + offheal capabiity that simply isn't worth the loss to burst healing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheJollyRogers Posted July 2, 2015 Share Posted July 2, 2015 (edited) the way it works now for IO and Arsenal, there is an instant heal (4-8k) and a cast heal (5-10k). healers have both of those heals plus a smaller, shorter cast heal (I think it's also 4-8k). currently, IO always has to cast the big heal, but arsenal can proc it so that it's instant. neither dps can spam any heal (the cast has a 13s cd). 3.3 is getting rid of the big heal and replacing it with the small heal that the medic spec has. but unlike the current cast heal, the weaker replacement will not have a cd. what this means is nothing to an IO while in the heat of combat because he never had the advantage of an instant in the first place. However, Arsenal did. So assuming that Arsenal keeps the instant proc, it's still a net loss for them because instead of proc'ing a big instant, they're proc'ing a smaller instant. the advantage to the change is it makes off healing possible (but expensive), and it makes self healing while los possible but expensive. however, it's very much a nerf to Arsenal, because who would trade a second med pack for a weaker cast heal, even the heal has no cd? Think you might have missed the part where Arsenal's Tracer Lock utility was also changed to make Rapid Scan do 100% more healing (along with being instant). Also IO's mag shot gives you an instant Rapid Scan now, too, and the spec inherently makes it cheaper to cast. (Source here: http://www.swtor.com/community/showthread.php?t=818409) Edited July 2, 2015 by TheJollyRogers Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mallorea Posted July 2, 2015 Share Posted July 2, 2015 :snip: Merc / mandos aren't going to chase after you. Getting in the middle of the fray is how they get killed quickly. Unless you have a pocket heal and tank, which is when a merc becomes an invincible turret of death Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Master-Nala Posted July 2, 2015 Share Posted July 2, 2015 With Madness/Balance, all fights come down to a war of attrition. You can beat nearly any class that can't last long. Sadly, the two you mentioned in the right hands absolutely can last a long time. I find these fights come down to whoever makes a mistake first or runs out of force. Despite the peanut gallery's belief, Sorcs can run low. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Floplag Posted July 2, 2015 Share Posted July 2, 2015 Think you might have missed the part where Arsenal's Tracer Lock utility was also changed to make Rapid Scan do 100% more healing (along with being instant). Also IO's mag shot gives you an instant Rapid Scan now, too, and the spec inherently makes it cheaper to cast. (Source here: http://www.swtor.com/community/showthread.php?t=818409) and at the cost of a fully charged rail shot no less... you may have missed that part. well see but the cost is prohibitive in my opinion based on my testing Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheJollyRogers Posted July 2, 2015 Share Posted July 2, 2015 (edited) and at the cost of a fully charged rail shot no less... you may have missed that part. well see but the cost is prohibitive in my opinion based on my testing I was noting to foxmob that 1) with Tracer Lock x5, Rapid Scan will heal about the same as Healing Scan and 2) IO does actually have instant cast healing. (The two main points foxmob made that the changes are a nerf) I still fail to see how this is a nerf. Rapid Scan with 5 tracer locks is around how much Healing Scan heals for and has no cooldown. IO now has an instant heal instead of not. The cost for Rapid Scan is 15/20 (depending on spec), but that's what Healing Scan costs. So you trade a spammable lesser heal with no CD to the same cost as a 12 second CD heal with a longer cast. With 5 tracer locks, there's virtually no difference. The cost might need to go down, but I much rather have the PTS content than current. Especially now that I get a instant heal in IO. Saying we should revert that is odd. Edited July 2, 2015 by TheJollyRogers Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
foxmob Posted July 2, 2015 Share Posted July 2, 2015 Think you might have missed the part where Arsenal's Tracer Lock utility was also changed to make Rapid Scan do 100% more healing (along with being instant). Also IO's mag shot gives you an instant Rapid Scan now, too, and the spec inherently makes it cheaper to cast. (Source here: http://www.swtor.com/community/showthread.php?t=818409) indeed I did. lol never got a pop. just sat there self casting on fleet. luls Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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