Immortal PvP in DPS gear

[Lightning_xv]

PvE wise, you need...

 

First Tier

 

1) Path Carver - Increase AOE damage using Sweeping Slash even further as you get an increase in damage with it under the Immortal spec.

 

2) Overwhelm - Keeps certain enemies immobilized when doing Ravage. Good if you lose aggro against certain enemies.

 

3) Unstoppable - Protects you from certain movement impairments, but not all of them.

 

** Payback - If you are the main tank or off-tank very often. If you are mainly dps then ignore this. You can switch out Overwhelm or Path Carver to get this.

 

Second Tier

1) Sonic Wall - Is a must have and your bonus works with this. This allows you to reduce your friend's damage. This is extremely good if you and your team are about to get hit by a AOE.

 

2) Embolden Scream - Allows you to increase the speed of your friends using Chilling Scream. Good for speed runs.

 

Third Tier

 

1) Intercessor - Reduce more damage and threat of those you are Intercepting.

 

2) Thrown Gauntlet - Allows you to use your Chilling Scream for free and reduces your Force Push. Combined with Embolden Scream, you and your friends can speed run mission/operations and over more ground.

 

** Through Passion, Through Power and Consuming Rage are good if you are the main tank often. Don't pick these if you are off-tanking or doing dps.

#1- OP asked about pvp not pve

#2- Even for pve this set up is oh so horribly wrong.

 

@OP- go full dps or full tank. A hybrid is a waste of potential. If you would rather dps than tank just remember to hit your taunts as often as possible. In regs you can easily rack up 6 digit protection numbers without even using guard.

My jugg isn't even pvp geared and I can pull 600k damage and 600k protection in my hardmode tank set while immortal. The downside to being full tank is without a healer you absorbing other peoples damage with guard eats you a bit faster than you'd like.

[Dalfurend]

Inb4 AD calls you all elitist bullies.

 

^_^

[adproduction]

...what?

 

I already know what he was saying, his opinion on the build didn't make the build less viable. Nothing he said made DPS tank a horrible build, but rather he just went with traditional options.

 

I'm using it and have no problem with it. Might I add this is my second go around.

 

#1- OP asked about pvp not pve

#2- Even for pve this set up is oh so horribly wrong.

 

And yes, I made it work during the times I did FP, TFPs, and operations?

 

 

@OP- go full dps or full tank. A hybrid is a waste of potential.

 

He's pretty much jump ship after you guys killed the topic (as you guys always do). -_- The guy made it clear he like playing it. Deal with it.

Edited July 2, 2015 by adproduction

[Technohic]

I'm still watching, just still not really sure what I want to do. I have mained gunslinger/sniper for a long time so part of me wants to just be a more durable DPS that is a little more self sustaining, and another part of me sees a lack of tanks showing up in my teams and even worse DPS than me (and thats saying something) so maybe I should fill a need, but I just don't see what tanking will help if no one is really doing great DPS.

[adproduction]

I'm still watching, just still not really sure what I want to do. I have mained gunslinger/sniper for a long time so part of me wants to just be a more durable DPS that is a little more self sustaining, and another part of me sees a lack of tanks showing up in my teams and even worse DPS than me (and thats saying something) so maybe I should fill a need, but I just don't see what tanking will help if no one is really doing great DPS.

 

From my observation...

 

- Everyone, including Grand and Dalfurend, mainly play dps in a PvP filled with DPS; thus making a Pure tank (a tank with nothing but defensive gear) is pointless unless a healer is guaranteed. A Pure tank is dead weight unless someone can heal him/her to and they aren't contributing any real dps.

 

- Because PvP consist of 95% DPS, you are more likely to pick a class with dual function (Guard/Vanguard) or a primary DPS class. (Marauder/Sniper)

 

- Because 85% of the PvPers use range attacks, you are more incline to use classes with range attacks such as the Sorcerer/Sage, Commando/Bounty Hunter, or Sniper/Gunslinger.

 

- Because there are rarely any healers or any real tanks, you are more incline to be a dps class with survivability or edge. (Shadow/Assassin, Operative/Scoundrel, or Sniper/Gunslinger)

 

With that being said, if looking to do damage and has good survivability, go with one of the stealth classes. (Such as the Operative and Assassin) But if you are looking for damage and durability then go with Powertech, Vanguard, or Guardian. (specifically a DPS tank) If you are looking for an edge then go with Gunslinger/Sniper or DPS Sorcerer/Sage as they fight from a distance and sometimes overlook.

Edited July 2, 2015 by adproduction

[Dalfurend]

I'm still watching, just still not really sure what I want to do. I have mained gunslinger/sniper for a long time so part of me wants to just be a more durable DPS that is a little more self sustaining, and another part of me sees a lack of tanks showing up in my teams and even worse DPS than me (and thats saying something) so maybe I should fill a need, but I just don't see what tanking will help if no one is really doing great DPS.

 

If you are looking for something straight forward that meet you requirements, Vengeance Jugg is what you want to play. Tank in dps gear is not much more durable than venge, but it doesn't do nearly as much damage, and you are affected far more by stuns - which may actually bring their durability in line. If you are so inclined you can still play a support role with your intercede, taunts, and quick stance dance if you are really trying hard.

 

If you are looking for a different class to play in general, sorcs are pretty survivable if you know how to kite and line of sight (los). I have been playing a concealment operative lately too, which has great survivability if you can time your rolls, and make sure to hot/kite/los. Both of which, however, require a higher personal skill cap.

 

As far as DPS tanking goes, if you have a healer buddy that really needs a guard and it's all the gear you got, why not? But if your focus if to deal damage and you aren't planning on staying in guard range there is absolutely no point. Come 3.3 gear will be hella cheap, so you can always have 2 gear sets, and if you enjoy the spec you can just do what suits the match. For example if there is another tank in your match. The more tanks you got, the less effective both will be, and since you can't swap specs, may as well change what you can.

 

I enjoy sniper/slinger a lot as well, so I understand your survivability problems a bit. There are a couple ways to fix that, but you would have to try super duper hard.

1. You can cozy up to some healers.

2. Sniper actually has some pretty awesome tools to stay alive. Make sure you know them in and out. Are you getting in and out of cover ever 6s? Do you space cds apart? LoS? Use roots and FB defensively?

3. All of the above.

 

Personally, I have seen a spike in the number of healers and tanks as of late - likely due to the 3.3 changes to healing. It is server dependents though I imagine.

 

And AD, WOT?

 

Bruh, look at literally all of my past stream you can see. In 90% of those games have a healer... When I don't I generally hop on my operative so I can offheal myself... You observation skills are so off xD

 

Tbh Tech, and everyone else reading, here and there Adproduction makes a little bit of sense, but in general all the topics he is a part of gets derailed because a lot of people in the community don't want fellow Juggs getting the wrong advice. Grand may be the poster boy for fighting the plague, but you will be hard pressed to find someone that actually really agrees with what AD says. He definitely shouts the loudest though.

 

Let me know what you decide on and feel free to talk to pop in on my stream tomorrow if you wanna discuss it.

 

Good luck!

[lordbadtamaru]

If you are looking for something straight forward that meet you requirements, Vengeance Jugg is what you want to play. Tank in dps gear is not much more durable than venge, but it doesn't do nearly as much damage, and you are affected far more by stuns - which may actually bring their durability in line. If you are so inclined you can still play a support role with your intercede, taunts, and quick stance dance if you are really trying hard.

 

If you are looking for a different class to play in general, sorcs are pretty survivable if you know how to kite and line of sight (los). I have been playing a concealment operative lately too, which has great survivability if you can time your rolls, and make sure to hot/kite/los. Both of which, however, require a higher personal skill cap.

 

As far as DPS tanking goes, if you have a healer buddy that really needs a guard and it's all the gear you got, why not? But if your focus if to deal damage and you aren't planning on staying in guard range there is absolutely no point. Come 3.3 gear will be hella cheap, so you can always have 2 gear sets, and if you enjoy the spec you can just do what suits the match. For example if there is another tank in your match. The more tanks you got, the less effective both will be, and since you can't swap specs, may as well change what you can.

 

I enjoy sniper/slinger a lot as well, so I understand your survivability problems a bit. There are a couple ways to fix that, but you would have to try super duper hard.

1. You can cozy up to some healers.

2. Sniper actually has some pretty awesome tools to stay alive. Make sure you know them in and out. Are you getting in and out of cover ever 6s? Do you space cds apart? LoS? Use roots and FB defensively?

3. All of the above.

 

Personally, I have seen a spike in the number of healers and tanks as of late - likely due to the 3.3 changes to healing. It is server dependents though I imagine.

 

And AD, WOT?

 

Bruh, look at literally all of my past stream you can see. In 90% of those games have a healer... When I don't I generally hop on my operative so I can offheal myself... You observation skills are so off xD

 

Tbh Tech, and everyone else reading, here and there Adproduction makes a little bit of sense, but in general all the topics he is a part of gets derailed because a lot of people in the community don't want fellow Juggs getting the wrong advice. Grand may be the poster boy for fighting the plague, but you will be hard pressed to find someone that actually really agrees with what AD says. He definitely shouts the loudest though.

 

Let me know what you decide on and feel free to talk to pop in on my stream tomorrow if you wanna discuss it.

 

Good luck!

 

Pretty much this. Can't post on my main account right now, not going to say why .

 

Also, Ebon Hawk is chock full of healers and turtle comps. It's one of the most aggressively flavor of the month servers in the entire game.

 

Dalfurend, you have an enjin? You should totally add me. I have a few alts on Jedi covenant that now have my legacy, debating leveling a guardian offserver for more varied PVP

Edited July 2, 2015 by lordbadtamaru

[adproduction]

If you are looking for something straight forward that meet you requirements, Vengeance Jugg is what you want to play. Tank in dps gear is not much more durable than venge, but it doesn't do nearly as much damage, and you are affected far more by stuns - which may actually bring their durability in line. If you are so inclined you can still play a support role with your intercede, taunts, and quick stance dance if you are really trying hard.

 

Both are affected by stuns.

 

Dalfurend: But...

 

I played Vigilance and durability is more horrible than Immortal. At least Immortal several things to fall back where as Vengeance and Vigilance does not. Most of Vengeance/Vigilance damage comes from Smash/Vengeful Slam DOT spread as straight damage doesn't do much. (I experimented both DOTs and Straight dueling)

 

If you are looking for a different class to play in general, sorcs are pretty survivable if you know how to kite and line of sight (los). I have been playing a concealment operative lately too, which has great survivability if you can time your rolls, and make sure to hot/kite/los. Both of which, however, require a higher personal skill cap.

 

Sith Assassin/Jedi Shadows have great survivability than both and Sorcerer/Sage are number #1 target, especially if they healing spec. Operative get killed a lot by other dps, espcially against other Jedi Guardians with Vengeance.

 

As far as DPS tanking goes, if you have a healer buddy that really needs a guard and it's all the gear you got, why not? But if your focus if to deal damage and you aren't planning on staying in guard range there is absolutely no point. Come 3.3 gear will be hella cheap, so you can always have 2 gear sets, and if you enjoy the spec you can just do what suits the match. For example if there is another tank in your match. The more tanks you got, the less effective both will be, and since you can't swap specs, may as well change what you can.

 

That's already been answer on the first page. He has two options, he can go full DPS tank or have gears for both specs, depending on what his team wants him to do.

 

I enjoy sniper/slinger a lot as well, so I understand your survivability problems a bit. There are a couple ways to fix that, but you would have to try super duper hard.

1. You can cozy up to some healers.

2. Sniper actually has some pretty awesome tools to stay alive. Make sure you know them in and out. Are you getting in and out of cover ever 6s? Do you space cds apart? LoS? Use roots and FB defensively?

3. All of the above.

 

Um...as sniper learn to use the cover to roll around great distance to avoid attacks. My favorite tactic is manual taking cover while being near an object to take cover by. When attack, moving away from the area a couple feat than take cover leaving the enemy back where they start, but with their back turn to you. In addition, learn to use your snare and Pulse to knock your enemy back. Use your CCs like your stun-knife as a last resort and use flash grenade to either get distance from something attack you or to stop a healer from healing.

 

Also position your sniper in a position he is least likely to get sneak attack (Bottle-necking) or in position your opponents are less likely to take notice of. (Such as the ledges on Huttball)

 

Personally, I have seen a spike in the number of healers and tanks as of late - likely due to the 3.3 changes to healing. It is server dependents though I imagine.

 

No, unfortunately, the number is still the same. Not just for PvP, but PvE as well.

 

Bruh, look at literally all of my past stream you can see.

 

Except we play on different servers, I pvp day on and night my laptop. Healers are rare in both instances of PvE and PvP. Having observed your friend Grand in several games, he died a lot due to the lack of healings. (With the exception of the last game) This is why I told him the truth, there is lack of healers and tanks in the game. You aren't guaranteed them, especially with the Random Group finder. This is a notorious complaint amongst the overall PvP community (Which has been noted repeatedly in the suggestion forum, BTW) so PLEASE DON'T LIE TO HIM AND TELL HIM A HEALER IS GUARANTEED OR THERE IS A SPIKE GROWTH IN HEALERS (AND TANKS) WHEN THERE ISN'T.

 

In fact, the population has dropped since 12xp, including HEAVY POPULATED SERVES LIKE EBON HAWK. Of the late, we have been having more simulation games between same faction teams than cross-faction teams.

 

Pretty much this. Can't post on my main account right now, not going to say why .

 

Also, Ebon Hawk is chock full of healers and turtle comps. It's one of the most aggressively flavor of the month servers in the entire game.

 

Dalfurend, you have an enjin? You should totally add me. I have a few alts on Jedi covenant that now have my legacy, debating leveling a guardian offserver for more varied PVP

 

1) You got banned for trolling so instead of taking the time to think about why you were banned, you came back to get banned again?

 

2) That's a lie considering I play on that server day and night from job or my laptop. Ebon Hawk lost a lot of players since 12xp and has suffered a standard to light population of the late. It takes forever to get a PvP or GSF going. Ditto with Ground Finder.

Edited July 2, 2015 by adproduction

[lordbadtamaru]

Both are affected by stuns.

 

Dalfurend: But...

 

I played Vigilance and durability is more horrible than Immortal. At least Immortal several things to fall back where as Vengeance and Vigilance does not. Most of Vengeance/Vigilance damage comes from Smash/Vengeful Slam DOT spread as straight damage doesn't do much. (I experimented both DOTs and Straight dueling)

 

 

 

Sith Assassin/Jedi Shadows have great survivability than both and Sorcerer/Sage are number #1 target, especially if they healing spec. Operative get killed a lot by other dps, espcially against other Jedi Guardians with Vengeance.

 

 

 

That's already been answer on the first page. He has two options, he can go full DPS tank or have gears for both specs, depending on what his team wants him to do.

 

 

 

Um...as sniper learn to use the cover to roll around great distance to avoid attacks. My favorite tactic is manual taking cover while being near an object to take cover by. When attack, moving away from the area a couple feat than take cover leaving the enemy back where they start, but with their back turn to you. In addition, learn to use your snare and Pulse to knock your enemy back. Use your CCs like your stun-knife as a last resort and use flash grenade to either get distance from something attack you or to stop a healer from healing.

 

Also position your sniper in a position he is least likely to get sneak attack or in position your opponents are less likely to take notice of.

 

 

 

No, unfortunately, the number is still the same. Not just for PvP, but PvE as well.

 

 

 

Except we play on different servers, I pvp day on and night my laptop. Healers are rare in both instances of PvE and PvP. Having observed your friend Grand in several games, he died a lot due to the lack of healings. (With the exception of the last game) This is why I told him the truth, there is lack of healers and tanks in the game. You aren't guaranteed them, especially with the Random Group finder. This is a notorious complaint amongst the overall PvP community (Which has been noted repeatedly in the suggestion forum, BTW) so PLEASE DON'T LIE TO HIM AND TELL HIM A HEALER IS GUARANTEED OR THERE IS A SPIKE GROWTH IN HEALERS (AND TANKS) WHEN THERE ISN'T.

 

In fact, the population has dropped since 12xp, including HEAVY POPULATED SERVES LIKE EBON HAWK. Of the late, we have been having more simulation games between same faction teams than cross-faction teams.

 

 

 

1) You got banned for trolling so instead of taking the time to think about why you were banned, you came back to get banned again?

 

2) That's a lie considering I play on that server day and night from job or my laptop. Ebon Hawk lost a lot of players since 12xp and has suffered a standard to light population of the late. It takes forever to get a PvP or GSF going. Ditto with Ground Finder.

 

You've played it. Doesn't mean you're competent at it. Also I noticed you deleted Leonio, do you even play your guardian on Ebon hawk...

 

PVP still pops within 5 minutes.

 

Try again.

Edited July 2, 2015 by lordbadtamaru

[adproduction]

You've played it. Doesn't mean you're competent at it. Also I noticed you deleted Leonio, do you even play your guardian on Ebon hawk...

 

Still do, and I don't play Pub no more. I play a juggernaut now and the pvp is FAAAAR better on their side and my perform is waaaaaaaaay better on the IMP side.

 

PVP still pops within 5 minutes.

 

Try again.

 

ROFL!!! Nope and when it does, it normally same faction pvp as I pointed out. (Both PvP and GSF, bt) BTW, a little off topic, are you also known as J-Man on other message boards. Also, I'm looking at the population, it's standard when on nights without school the population is normally heavy. The population is the same during the day too. Sometimes, it is even light. (And I play day and night, you don't)

 

Also to the OP, I don't care what road you go down, just be happy with the road you walk. Don't these guys are or myself tell you what to play. Take what we all say as a grain of salt. Play the build you think is fun. However, I'm not going to lie to you like these guys. You'll watch videos and think PvP is awesome realize it's not imbalance, but you won't be able to do half the stuff these guys do for several reasons, it and has nothing to do with skill.

Edited July 2, 2015 by adproduction

[Dalfurend]

@OP

 

I don't really have the time to go point by point with AD.

 

Not that it means much, but seeing as Last Season I got tier 2 on all the classes, with tier 1 on my Jugg and Guardian. AD, how did you do? Hmmmmmm <3

 

I dunno how experienced you are with all of the classes, but if you wanna talk/watch how to manage with your sniper or any other class lemme know. You really don't need to feel forced to play a certain classes just due to survivability issues.

 

So hit that twitch link below between 3 and 6 EST tomorrow and we can chat. Goes for everyone here too

[adproduction]

@OP

 

I don't really have the time to go point by point with AD.

 

Not that it means much, but seeing as Last Season I got tier 2 on all the classes, with tier 1 on my Jugg and Guardian. AD, how did you do? Hmmmmmm <3

 

Did you forget to tell the guy that you fight scrubs on server. Your videos are proof of this as proceed to get 2 million against a team that didn't kill any of your members of your team and where undergeared. Might I add, you had to be carried through the entire game by a healer. (Grand isn't so lucky as we don't have too many healers on Pub) Ironically, you accuse others of being carried and that's exactly what others had to do to you. -_-

 

Like I said, I'm telling the guy the truth. You'll just lie to him...as usual.

 

I dunno how experienced you are with all of the classes, but if you wanna talk/watch how to manage with your sniper or any other class lemme know.

 

I do perfectly fine as a Sniper. Sniper plays like the Huner minus the pet. You just sit back, go through your moves until the person is dead while CC people who are nuisance to your teammates. (Or you can sit back and rack up 40ish to 50ish kills like I do) Snipers are ridiculously easy to play and their tactics are simple.

 

You really don't need to feel forced to play a certain classes just due to survivability issues.

 

Survivability has been issue long before this game and it will be an issue long after this game. -_- But that's not what influence people to play a class. It's also playing style.

Edited July 2, 2015 by adproduction

[Xeraz]

Sorry to say but we've got a lot of ignorance in this thread. I feel many of you have mistaken PvP Tanks for PvE Tanks. A PvP tank's primary objective is to provide utility for his team. Now, one can argue what is the best way to do that but.. I feel that many of you think the role of a PvP tank is to merely survive.

 

With that said, Immortal Tanks are absolutely viable in DPS gear. They perform perfectly fine in regs, especially when a healer is present. I would also argue that DPS geared Immortal is the "most viable" way to use Jugg tanks in Group Ranked. So don't give me this "only viable in regs" BS.

 

However, I should add, that DPS Geared Immortal has a substantially higher skill cap than any other Juggernaut spec/role. Since you have to perform all the same functions any other tank would need to do while also applying offensive pressure AND having less "room for error" when cycling defensive cooldowns. Only pursue if you are willing/wanting to really push your class capabilities to the limit.

Edited July 2, 2015 by Xeraz

[adproduction]

Sorry to say but we've got a lot of ignorance in this thread. I feel many of you have mistaken PvP Tanks for PvE Tanks. A PvP tank's primary objective is to provide utility for his team. Now, one can argue what is the best way to do that but.. I feel that many of you think the role of a PvP tank is to merely survive.

 

With that said, Immortal Tanks are absolutely viable in DPS gear. They perform perfectly fine in regs, especially when a healer is present. I would also argue that DPS geared Immortal is that "most viable" way to use Jugg tanks in Group Ranked. So don't give me this "only viable in regs" BS.

 

However, I should add, that DPS Geared Immortal has a substantially higher skill cap than any other Juggernaut spec/role. Since you have to perform all the same functions any other tank would need to do while also applying offensive pressure AND having less "room for error" when cycling defensive cooldowns. Only pursue if you are willing/wanting to really push your class capabilities to the limit.

 

And boom goes the

.

 

Also I want to add that if the Immortal/Defense spec weren't meant for damage, they would not increase the damage of their attacks skill and it focus more creating more chances to defend/lower damage. Currently, these specs have BOTH offensive and defensive capabilities. Again, what use does a tank have for offensive skill and damage increase, if it was only meant to survive and defend?

Edited July 2, 2015 by adproduction

[Dalfurend]

Sorry to say but we've got a lot of ignorance in this thread. I feel many of you have mistaken PvP Tanks for PvE Tanks. A PvP tank's primary objective is to provide utility for his team. Now, one can argue what is the best way to do that but.. I feel that many of you think the role of a PvP tank is to merely survive.

 

With that said, Immortal Tanks are absolutely viable in DPS gear. They perform perfectly fine in regs, especially when a healer is present. I would also argue that DPS geared Immortal is the "most viable" way to use Jugg tanks in Group Ranked. So don't give me this "only viable in regs" BS.

 

However, I should add, that DPS Geared Immortal has a substantially higher skill cap than any other Juggernaut spec/role. Since you have to perform all the same functions any other tank would need to do while also applying offensive pressure AND having less "room for error" when cycling defensive cooldowns. Only pursue if you are willing/wanting to really push your class capabilities to the limit.

 

Well, as far as regs go, do what you want. That said, the reason most people want to use a dps tank isn't for the tanking utility, it's for the survivability. With the survivability of Venge, and the ability of the classes to stance dance and guard if it is really needed in addition to all the other peeling/dmg redux abilities, tanking in dps gear is kinda nerfing yourself. Now a PT dps tank, for example, is a different story. The damage potential of that spec in dps gear can actually compare to a dps spec, provided a couple condition like stacking - which is required for a bunch of dps specs as well.

 

As far as group ranked goes I actually did some silly games in it because a team was in dire need of a tank, and I only have dps gear. I won all those matches, but the other team was hella inexperienced. That said, if you have been looking at a lot of the higher rated teams tank tunneling becomes more prevalent. Now a dps tank can be fine because a lot of people don't show the actual health of people on the bar and are unaware that tunneling will = GG, but once people catch on, you will be focused and you will die. The dot cleave will destroy you. Am I wrong?

 

And the skill cap for dps tank really is pretty much the same as an actual tank. Popping CDs when you need them really doesn't count as a skill cap thing? You already have to do that in the other specs with similar survivabiliity anyway.

 

If you wanna talk about pushing your class and your player skill to the limit, I would say that playing vengeance and doing damage and peeling is more effective and has a "higher skill cap" as your damage potential is higher, and you have to decide when just intercede, intercede with a stance dance and guard, and when to swap back and go hard on dps. Fact is apart from a couple not so huge debuffs vengeance has all the peeling power as it's tank spec, which is why "skank tanks" in ranked are cursed by the community as a whole.

 

Does this make sense?

[Technohic]

Lots of interesting points of views.

 

As far as my gunslinger goes; I just had a rough night and was getting in groups with maybe 1 healer and usually no tanks and the Pubs were always spreading out, while the Imps would be moving on a cohesive group. I don't think it was premades; it was different groups and different guild tags. I suppose it is possible, but it would be irrelevant as the bigger issue is the lack of teamwork on my side. I would stop at a respawn and wait to see if we might be moving together somewhere, but as people got there, if they even waited to regroup they still all went different directions.

 

I had a rough way of it at first, not doing much of anything, but its like I posted in the PvP forum, toward the end, I would be sitting at 850-900 DPS which is not my best showing, but I did a lot of kiting and LOSing to survive or was dead, and my nearest teammate would be in the 500s, with a tank close to that once.

 

It was a learning experience in making the most of my DCDs and LOS, but it was frustrating. I don't see any class or role alone making up for that. Would have to single handily carry a team, and I am just average and am not going to put pressure on myself to somehow try to do it.

 

 

As for guard/jugg goes; I guess it just doesn't hurt to try. No need to take it so seriously.

Edited July 2, 2015 by Technohic

[Dalfurend]

Lots of interesting points of views.

 

As far as my gunslinger goes; I just had a rough night and was getting in groups with maybe 1 healer and usually no tanks and the Pubs were always spreading out, while the Imps would be moving on a cohesive group. I don't think it was premades; it was different groups and different guild tags. I suppose it is possible, but it would be irrelevant as the bigger issue is the lack of teamwork on my side. I would stop at a respawn and wait to see if we might be moving together somewhere, but as people got there, if they even waited to regroup they still all went different directions.

 

I had a rough way of it at first, not doing much of anything, but its like I posted in the PvP forum, toward the end, I would be sitting at 850-900 DPS which is not my best showing, but I did a lot of kiting and LOSing to survive or was dead, and my nearest teammate would be in the 500s, with a tank close to that once.

 

It was a learning experience in making the most of my DCDs and LOS, but it was frustrating. I don't see any class or role alone making up for that. Would have to single handily carry a team, and I am just average and am not going to put pressure on myself to somehow try to do it.

 

 

As for guard/jugg goes; I guess it just doesn't hurt to try. No need to take it so seriously.

 

Gotcha. Sounds like the faction imbalance on your server goes in favor of imps, eh? The only way to really go against the stronger faction and reliably win - if you care about that - is really to find 3 other people and Q. If enjoying the game is all you want, a stealth class is also extremely fun to play solo. Yeah, you should learn how to fight with the group, but soloing people on offnodes is satisfying in its own way. Deception sin and concealment OP are the most fun for that. Maybe OP would be easier because you already have slinger gear.

 

Haha, I'm not trying to dissuade you from trying Jugg. If you have one try Venge, but from looking at all your posts I'm not sure it's what you are looking for.

Edited July 2, 2015 by Dalfurend

[Technohic]

Gotcha. Sounds like the faction imbalance on your server goes in favor of imps, eh? The only way to really go against the stronger faction and reliably win - if you care about that - is really to find 3 other people and Q. If enjoying the game is all you want, a stealth class is also extremely fun to play solo. Yeah, you should learn how to fight with the group, but soloing people on offnodes is satisfying in its own way. Deception sin and concealment OP are the most fun for that. Maybe OP would be easier because you already have slinger gear.

 

Haha, I'm not trying to dissuade you from trying Jugg. If you have one try Venge, but from looking at all your posts I'm not sure it's what you are looking for.

 

Oh no worries on the last part. I really have no dog in the fight and am just considering options for a different play style.

 

Stealth is definitely an option, but I think a lot of the problems as it is are people going off to do their own thing in PUGs. Grouping up might be the only real answer but the grass is always greener on the other side might be the case in any sort of class change, or even focusing on my imp counterpart.

[Dalfurend]

Oh no worries on the last part. I really have no dog in the fight and am just considering options for a different play style.

 

Stealth is definitely an option, but I think a lot of the problems as it is are people going off to do their own thing in PUGs. Grouping up might be the only real answer but the grass is always greener on the other side might be the case in any sort of class change, or even focusing on my imp counterpart.

 

I gotcha, it must be fun searching for a new playstyle.

 

You know, at this point it wouldn't be a bad idea to watch some vids/stream of people playing to find a class that makes you think, "Wow that looks fun, I wanna do that,'' and just go for it 100%. As of now the only class that you probably want to avoid is a commando dps. Sentinel is also a really frustrating class at times, but the survivability is so so without a healer and a solid knowledge of the dcds.

 

If you are looking for a completely different experience than a slinger, I would mess around with OP/Sin - probs OP if getting geared is an issue. Keep in mind you will be getting a free 60 in a couple of months, and gear is gonna be dirt cheap in a couple weeks.

 

And part of the reason I'm sort of not including Jugg here is because if your entire team is getting rolled playing a Jugg really won't make much of a difference imo apart from the fact you will stay alive a little longer.

[adproduction]

Well, as far as regs go, do what you want. That said, the reason most people want to use a dps tank isn't for the tanking utility, it's for the survivability.

 

Nope, I play to have both advantages, in which I am able to tank and do damage. I help teammates through taunts and slowing down enemies while taking damage for guarded targets. I'm not selfish player where I play for myself, but others. That's when I beat grand, it because I took close to my friend rather than prove how big of a fool I can be by leaving my friend defenseless.

 

With the survivability of Venge, and the ability of the classes to stance dance and guard if it is really needed in addition to all the other peeling/dmg redux abilities, tanking in dps gear is kinda nerfing yourself.

 

Nope, considering a pure tank does 2k to 4k damage while dps tank can do 5k to 10k depending on your gear. You also still get the same cooldowns. The only thing you can't do is take damage well as a pure tank, but the damage reduction is a minor nerf compared to a main tank.

 

Vengeance has no survivability and you're talking to someone who also play a Vigilance, day and night. You have leaps that reduce chance of CCs and lowers damage slightly for 4 second, but once that wear off you pretty much do heavy damage. You are a glass cannon even with the proper gear.

 

As far as group ranked goes I actually did some silly games in it because a team was in dire need of a tank, and I only have dps gear. I won all those matches, but the other team was hella inexperienced.

 

That's literally everyone you fight.

 

That said, if you have been looking at a lot of the higher rated teams tank tunneling becomes more prevalent. Now a dps tank can be fine because a lot of people don't show the actual health of people on the bar and are unaware that tunneling will = GG, but once people catch on, you will be focused and you will die. The dot cleave will destroy you. Am I wrong?

 

Yep because your tank doesn't always get queued as a tank. You queue your tank as a dps.

 

And the skill cap for dps tank really is pretty much the same as an actual tank. Popping CDs when you need them really doesn't count as a skill cap thing? You already have to do that in the other specs with similar survivabiliity anyway.

 

You have to taunt, guarding, attacks, and CC as dps tank. Pure Tank have to stand guard near their intended target, taunt, attack anyone who gets near and CC opponents who get near the person you are guarding. The difference between a pure tank and a DPS tank is that we can not only guard an extra person, but we can still do dps while doing it. A dps tank is just like ANY OTHER DPS so if the team focus on you, you're not going to die immediately.

 

If you wanna talk about pushing your class and your player skill to the limit, I would say that playing vengeance and doing damage and peeling is more effective and has a "higher skill cap" as your damage potential is higher, and you have to decide when just intercede, intercede with a stance dance and guard, and when to swap back and go hard on dps. Fact is apart from a couple not so huge debuffs vengeance has all the peeling power as it's tank spec, which is why "skank tanks" in ranked are cursed by the community as a whole.

 

Does this make sense?

 

Except Vengeance doesn't many skills and it rotation is ridiculous easy. The whole build revolves around spreading DoT. Vengeance are good dueling spec, not good group specs meaning they last long when a group focuses on them. You also don't stance dance as a Vengeance since you are a dps not a tank. DPS tanks don't have to stance dance as you would just stay in Soresu mode the entire time. So please don't make the Vengeance out to be more than what it is.

Edited July 2, 2015 by adproduction

[adproduction]

Lots of interesting points of views.

 

As far as my gunslinger goes; I just had a rough night and was getting in groups with maybe 1 healer and usually no tanks and the Pubs were always spreading out, while the Imps would be moving on a cohesive group. I don't think it was premades; it was different groups and different guild tags. I suppose it is possible, but it would be irrelevant as the bigger issue is the lack of teamwork on my side. I would stop at a respawn and wait to see if we might be moving together somewhere, but as people got there, if they even waited to regroup they still all went different directions.

 

I had a rough way of it at first, not doing much of anything, but its like I posted in the PvP forum, toward the end, I would be sitting at 850-900 DPS which is not my best showing, but I did a lot of kiting and LOSing to survive or was dead, and my nearest teammate would be in the 500s, with a tank close to that once.

 

It was a learning experience in making the most of my DCDs and LOS, but it was frustrating. I don't see any class or role alone making up for that. Would have to single handily carry a team, and I am just average and am not going to put pressure on myself to somehow try to do it.

 

 

As for guard/jugg goes; I guess it just doesn't hurt to try. No need to take it so seriously.

 

1) Happens more often then you think. As I said, I wasn't going to lie to you as this happens on a lot of servers with the healer/tank thing.

 

2) And don't, you don't have anything to prove to anybody. MMORPG are about having fun. People tend to forget to have fun and try to prove and get into pissing contest over numbers.

 

3) Like I said, play what makes you happy.

 

Oh no worries on the last part. I really have no dog in the fight and am just considering options for a different play style.

 

Stealth is definitely an option, but I think a lot of the problems as it is are people going off to do their own thing in PUGs. Grouping up might be the only real answer but the grass is always greener on the other side might be the case in any sort of class change, or even focusing on my imp counterpart.

 

1) Nothing wrong with that. It's what I did when I play different classes. I love the Gunslinger/Sniper and Vanguard more than Jedi Guardian/Sith Juggernaut. I don't play GS and VG because they are on Pub side and I know they have identical classes on the other side, but I'm not feeling the bounty hunter thing. Sniper is alright, but their PvE gets kind of boring despite being able to kill fast.

 

2) Assassin or Shadow are good option, but if you want to heal Operative and Scoundrel are good stealth heal.

Edited July 2, 2015 by adproduction

[Lightning_xv]

Oh no worries on the last part. I really have no dog in the fight and am just considering options for a different play style.

 

Stealth is definitely an option, but I think a lot of the problems as it is are people going off to do their own thing in PUGs. Grouping up might be the only real answer but the grass is always greener on the other side might be the case in any sort of class change, or even focusing on my imp counterpart.

 

For stealth OP concealment spec has a decent survivability lots of self heals available with a couple more through utilitys. The skill cap might be slightly higher with this class as timing your roll is very important. But when you do it right it hits like a truck and can go toe to toe with pretty much any class.( Only played heals and concealment on my OP so I don't know how well or viable its dot spec goes for pvp)

 

The assassin sits pretty well at the moment with both deception and hatred being good in pvp. Deception is more cc happy with strong burst ( the crits aren't the most powerful but it still gets the job done). Hatred has some kiting to help vs melee and its self heals(though not as strong as the heals used to be). It also gets a proc for its 30% finisher to be used at any health so that helps on more robust targets. Assassin has good dcds, utility choice is very wide as with OP.

 

 

As for your concern "Stealth is definitely an option, but I think a lot of the problems as it is are people going off to do their own thing in PUGs"

As a stealth you really gain the ability to flip a match in your favor despite a bad team. You won't be able to save them all but you have a very good chance to make a play. People not paying attention to a node or the node guard its self not being very good, various situations depending on the match your in can be exploited because they don't see you coming. Hell even if you don't kill the guard before he gets backup the extra people leaving the main fight can put the odds in your teams favor(so much fun when 3+ people come to the callouts leaving only 4 people for your team to deal with).

[adproduction]

For stealth OP concealment spec has a decent survivability lots of self heals available with a couple more through utilitys. The skill cap might be slightly higher with this class as timing your roll is very important. But when you do it right it hits like a truck and can go toe to toe with pretty much any class.( Only played heals and concealment on my OP so I don't know how well or viable its dot spec goes for pvp)

 

This was true pre-3.0.

[Lightning_xv]

This was true pre-3.0.

 

Volatile Substance crits 13k on another player with full 2018. Laceration/ Backstab/ veild strike all can crit for 8k+. You have kolto probes you can place on your self for constant hots. Crippling slice is the best sin troll currently in game.

Roll at the right time to avoid AP burst cycles......this class has so many GOOD utility's to fill in your weak spots with. No concealment is good. Its just not god mode. IF you know your opponents spec and how it works you can do wonders with this thing.

 

Post 3.0 this thing still kicks ***.

[adproduction]

Volatile Substance crits 13k on another player with full 2018. Laceration/ Backstab/ veild strike all can crit for 8k+. You have kolto probes you can place on your self for constant hots. Crippling slice is the best sin troll currently in game.

Roll at the right time to avoid AP burst cycles......this class has so many GOOD utility's to fill in your weak spots with. No concealment is good. Its just not god mode. IF you know your opponents spec and how it works you can do wonders with this thing.

 

Post 3.0 this thing still kicks ***.

 

Then I would have love to have fought you on my Vigilance because even my Vigilance had no trouble beating a lot of Operative, Assassins, and Marauders. For operative, it was as if they hit you guys with the nerf bat because 3.0, they use to mess my day up all day, but after 3.0. It doesn't seem that way unless all the good operatives left.