Cythereal Posted July 8, 2015 Share Posted July 8, 2015 No she doesn't because you can't romance LS Jaesa at all. She shuts your *** down, just like a proper Jedi would. Until you hit her last conversation as a LS male warrior if you haven't romanced Vette. She's talking about having kids someday to continue her quest to redeem the Empire, and you can pick a dialogue option to suggest that you be the father. She agrees. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OldVengeance Posted July 9, 2015 Share Posted July 9, 2015 Does she agree to marry you or does she just dispassionately agree to have your offspring if you want because it's the logical choice. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cythereal Posted July 9, 2015 Share Posted July 9, 2015 (edited) Does she agree to marry you or does she just dispassionately agree to have your offspring if you want because it's the logical choice. The latter, but the former is implied given that this is the Sith and all. It's noted frequently that the Sith, and the Empire in general, are very big on traditional family values. The conversation more or less goes "Hmmm. I will need to find a husband devoted to the light so we can have kids to carry on my work." "You're looking at him." "Okay, sounds good." Edited July 9, 2015 by Cythereal Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sentientomega Posted July 9, 2015 Share Posted July 9, 2015 (edited) The latter, but the former is implied given that this is the Sith and all. It's noted frequently that the Sith, and the Empire in general, are very big on traditional family values. The conversation more or less goes "Hmmm. I will need to find a husband devoted to the light so we can have kids to carry on my work." "You're looking at him." "Okay, sounds good." In the context of swtor, please define "traditional family values" (I'd hope it's nothing like thou shalt be straight or else); just so we're clear, and where's the evidence ingame that points to Sith sponsorship/support of those ideals? Edited July 9, 2015 by sentientomega Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cythereal Posted July 9, 2015 Share Posted July 9, 2015 In the context of swtor, please define "traditional family values" (I'd hope it's nothing like thou shalt be straight or else); just so we're clear, and where's the evidence ingame that points to Sith sponsorship/support of those ideals? Quinn points out if you romance him that the Empire provides substantial stipends to married couples in Imperial service and additional pay for each child that they have. It repeatedly comes up in the Sith Warrior story that the Warrior is a scion of a long and distinguished family, and politics of family and bloodline are a recurring theme on Dromund Kaas. Talos and Elara both talk about coming from families with long and distinguished histories, and Elara confirms if you ask that that's very common in the Empire. If you romance Jaesa (dark side) she confirms that it's expected of Sith to wed and continue or start their lineage. To contrast the Jedi, who discourage contact with families and getting married, the Sith and the Empire in general are very supportive of marriage and having kids. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
markcymru Posted July 9, 2015 Share Posted July 9, 2015 Wow! You take a day off, and miss all the excitement! Could someone PM me and let me know what happened, please? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sentientomega Posted July 9, 2015 Share Posted July 9, 2015 (edited) Quinn points out if you romance him that the Empire provides substantial stipends to married couples in Imperial service and additional pay for each child that they have. Any Sith-led government I find myself amazed at because of this, they seem like the last to implement any kind of welfare apparatus. In fact, welfare seems unlikely to be in their vocab. It repeatedly comes up in the Sith Warrior story that the Warrior is a scion of a long and distinguished family, and politics of family and bloodline are a recurring theme on Dromund Kaas. I wonder what their equiv of IVF would be? Or might there be other options? Also, I got from the Warrior's arrival on Korriban that they were no slave; but I didn't know they're a member of some stately home of DK... Edited July 9, 2015 by sentientomega Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cythereal Posted July 9, 2015 Share Posted July 9, 2015 Also, I got from the Warrior's arrival on Korriban that they were no slave; but I didn't know they're a member of some stately home of DK... It's noted a couple of times by NPCs that the Warrior is a genuine Sith aristocrat from an old and distinguished bloodline - it's why you're given special treatment when you arrive on Korriban, and you can mention to companions a few times that you're from a powerful Sith family. If you're LS, it gives the Warrior a strong air of noblesse oblige. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Diviciacus Posted July 9, 2015 Share Posted July 9, 2015 (edited) In the context of swtor, please define "traditional family values" (I'd hope it's nothing like thou shalt be straight or else); just so we're clear, and where's the evidence ingame that points to Sith sponsorship/support of those ideals? The Sith are very Classical Greek in a way, if you ignore the real-world counterpart's systemic misogynism. The Sith, especially the aristocratic echelons of their society, don't care who you **** for pleasure, but by the Emperor's left nut, you better be married and have children. Any Sith-led government I find myself amazed at because of this, they seem like the last to implement any kind of welfare apparatus. In fact, welfare seems unlikely to be in their vocab. It only seems surprising because it's so hip to portray all Sith as Saturday-morning cartoon villains driven mad by their lust for power. Notably, Darth Marr and Lord Beniko seem to have solid, if evil, heads on their shoulders. Certainly in SOR, anyway. In Vanilla content I think Marr was originally supposed to be a little more unhinged before they took the story in the direction it went. Especially considering his original apprentice was Darth Lachris, who was all about that hedonism. So if you get a sufficiently high-placed Sith who cares more for the good of the Empire than their own ephemeral power (he who dies with the most toys is still dead), it wouldn't surprise me if they could force a statute like that by virtue of the supreme power Sith wield. Lana Beniko does seem to fit this bill, even if her particular pragmatism is the tiniest bit amoral. Wanting to sacrifice the members of the Sixth Line as research into how to defeat Vitiate, for instance. Her Codex entry states that someone fitting her description was active in the pre-Treaty warfare over Hoth, so it's not like she hasn't been active in the Empire for at least 13-15 years - even if we've never heard of her before. I could see her or someone like her pushing that bit of legislation. (Interestingly, the codex entry placing her on Hoth during that major fleet engagement means she's most likely in her mid-30's in SOR. So she'll be at least 40 in KOTFE.) Edited July 9, 2015 by Diviciacus Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Codedrago Posted July 9, 2015 Share Posted July 9, 2015 Lies! My favourite topic is cheese! Though on the serious side, just because something isn't there, doesn't mean you're against it, especially in this games case since gay characters exists in the game. While I would like a gay romance in the next expansion (Even if it is Theron... Though I prefer him over the bland-fest that is Beniko), if it's not there, I won't really care (A little disappointed, but eh) and I certainly won't find it homophobic. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sentientomega Posted July 9, 2015 Share Posted July 9, 2015 (edited) The Sith are very Classical Greek in a way, if you ignore the real-world counterpart's systemic misogynism. The Sith, especially the aristocratic echelons of their society, don't care who you **** for pleasure, but by the Emperor's left nut, you better be married and have children. Sounds like forced heterosexuality to me, unless they'd find some way around that and still get both partners' DNA marks on the offspring without compromising who they are if they're not into the whole Leave It To Beaver thing. Like, a Sith aristocratic lesbian might rather seek an alternative solution than feel forced to do it with a Sith Schwarzenegger. Anyway, suppose the Emperor originally just had one of those? It only seems surprising because it's so hip to portray all Sith as Saturday-morning cartoon villains driven mad by their lust for power. Not remotely on my mind, lifting up the weak for their own sake (especially if they claim loyalty to but don't advance the Sith cause) just doesn't seem to jive with Sith philosophy; putting people through the trials so that they can be of use to Sith is different, because they can sink or swim. Welfare is about making sure they're supported, regardless of perceived worth. I doubt there's anyone in the Empire who isn't made to pull their weight in some way... So she'll be at least 40 in KOTFE.) Hmmm, nice. Edited July 9, 2015 by sentientomega Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Diviciacus Posted July 9, 2015 Share Posted July 9, 2015 (edited) Sounds like forced heterosexuality to me, unless they'd find some way around that and still get both partners' DNA marks on the offspring without compromising who they are if they're not into the whole Leave It To Beaver thing. Like, a Sith aristocratic lesbian might rather seek an alternative solution than feel forced to do it with a Sith Schwarzenegger. It isn't, and it is. It's forced child-bearing which is not really the same thing. As long as you're a mother or father, who truly shares your bed is of no concern to the Empire. It was a big thing in Mediaeval Europe too, where arranged marriages for political aims were all the rage. The couple forced together would have an heir or two or three, and then lovers (and not always heterosexual) on the side. Not remotely on my mind, lifting up the weak for their own sake (especially if they claim loyalty to but don't advance the Sith cause) just doesn't seem to jive with Sith philosophy; putting people through the trials so that they can be of use to Sith is different, because they can sink or swim. Welfare is about making sure they're supported, regardless of perceived worth. I doubt there's anyone in the Empire who isn't made to pull their weight in some way... It's more like a bribe to have a large family than welfare. The Romans did it too in the early empire under Augustus: families with more than three children received state funding. It's essentially not much different mechanically to welfare, yes, but the spirit and point of it is much different. More children to become Sith or Imperial army (read: cannon fodder) makes a stronger Empire overall. Which was my point: Of course doing that makes no sense when all Sith are like Baras or Thanaton - master planners who are so **** ing shortsighted and/or self absorbed they don't realize their actions are harming the Empire. And that when they die all their power grabs will be for nothing anyway. They have to be the exception, not the rule (even if in TOR the opposite is very clearly portrayed), or the Empire never would have held together for a thousand years to build a fleet to wreak vengeance on the Republic. Hmmm, nice. Yea, I thought it was an interesting point, especially considering Theron is 26, give or take, during SOR (it depends on the month-timing of the Battle of Alderaan and SOR; we're given years, but nothing more specific). Perhaps that's why Bioware's been so mum on Lana's remodel in KOTFE. We see the concept art, but all actual screenshots are from behind. I thought it originally because they redid her face to look less "congested" and wanted to save her new appearance for a big press reveal, but perhaps it's because she's got the Yuon Par look going on and they're trying to hide it. Edited July 9, 2015 by Diviciacus Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sentientomega Posted July 9, 2015 Share Posted July 9, 2015 (edited) It isn't, and it is. It's forced child-bearing which is not really the same thing. As long as you're a mother or father, who truly shares your bed is of no concern to the Empire. It was a big thing in Mediaeval Europe too, where arranged marriages for political aims were all the rage. The couple forced together would have an heir or two or three, and then lovers (and not always heterosexual) on the side. Well hooray for the recipients of the Cross of Honour of the Red Sith/Human Parent... I don't want 1-50 law to effectively criminalise JUST being a gay/lesbian couple, comprised of strictly gay/lesbian partners; it'd be as shameful as Orwellian attempts to abolish the ******, or confine sex to 'our duty to the party' moments. It's more like a bribe to have a large family than welfare. The Romans did it too in the early empire under Augustus: families with more than three children received state funding. It's essentially not much different mechanically to welfare, yes, but the spirit and point of it is much different. More children to become Sith or Imperial army (read: cannon fodder) makes a stronger Empire overall. To say nothing of the excuse to obtain more living space... but perhaps it's because she's got the Yuon Par look going on and they're trying to hide it. Why do I feel like I'm the only one who'd want Yuon Par, or any older woman, as a romance option in swtor? Edited July 9, 2015 by sentientomega Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cythereal Posted July 9, 2015 Share Posted July 9, 2015 Well hooray for the recipients of the Cross of Honour of the Red Sith/Human Parent... I don't want 1-50 law to effectively criminalise JUST being a gay/lesbian couple, comprised of strictly gay/lesbian partners. I suspect Bioware isn't going to say homosexuality is illegal or heterosexual marriage in the Empire is a crime or anything. At most, there's probably some romance drama to be milked from someone like Talos being gay when his powerful and aristocratic family puts a lot of pressure on him to marry a nice lady for the good of the family. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sentientomega Posted July 9, 2015 Share Posted July 9, 2015 (edited) I suspect Bioware isn't going to say homosexuality is illegal or heterosexual marriage in the Empire is a crime or anything. At most, there's probably some romance drama to be milked from someone like Talos being gay when his powerful and aristocratic family puts a lot of pressure on him to marry a nice lady for the good of the family. Being gay doesn't mean not being able to have kids, it just means you can't with your partner the way straight peeps do; but because those niggling sceptred morons can't see further than the end of their nose, they make irrelevant the sexuality of family members just because the kids HAVE to have the DNA of both parents. Something to think about IRL, there is a Crown Prince of one particular country who is gay. Edited July 9, 2015 by sentientomega Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cythereal Posted July 9, 2015 Share Posted July 9, 2015 Being gay doesn't mean not being able to have kids, it just means you can't with your partner the way straight peeps do; but because those niggling sceptred morons can't see further than the end of their nose, they make irrelevant the sexuality of family members just because the kids HAVE to have the DNA of both parents. Something to think about IRL, there is a Crown Prince of one particular country who is gay. I know and I'm saying I doubt Bioware is going to go that route except maybe as a source for relationship drama in one or two romances. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Xilizhra Posted July 10, 2015 Share Posted July 10, 2015 Well hooray for the recipients of the Cross of Honour of the Red Sith/Human Parent... I don't want 1-50 law to effectively criminalise JUST being a gay/lesbian couple, comprised of strictly gay/lesbian partners; it'd be as shameful as Orwellian attempts to abolish the ******, or confine sex to 'our duty to the party' moments. Well... it's worth noting that the Empire is evil. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sentientomega Posted July 11, 2015 Share Posted July 11, 2015 Well... it's worth noting that the Empire is evil. True, but not quite in the "regulating how often people sneeze, and when and where they do it" kind of way. Did I say criminalise? I meant stigmatise to the point de facto criminalisation, because peeps can't breed conventionally that way and thus contribute no additional cannon/saber fodder to Sith society. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Xilizhra Posted July 11, 2015 Share Posted July 11, 2015 True, but not quite in the "regulating how often people sneeze, and when and where they do it" kind of way. Did I say criminalise? I meant stigmatise to the point de facto criminalisation, because peeps can't breed conventionally that way and thus contribute no additional cannon/saber fodder to Sith society. Quite frankly, I don't think that the Empire puts any sort of standard on Sith at all like that, and "expected to" seems more like "we think this is probable" more than "we want you to." Literally the only thing Sith care about other Sith doing is attempting to weaken their powerbase, or sometimes weaken the Empire as a whole; personal lives wouldn't come into it at all. For non-Sith... ideologically, the Empire probably doesn't have a reason to care, and I can't imagine that in vitro fertilization isn't a thing, so I suspect that any couple could just pick up a marriage license and be done with it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
freeoftime Posted July 11, 2015 Share Posted July 11, 2015 It's also worth noting that there hasn't been any such drama mentioned in the same gender romances we already have or the straight but with aliens you can't interbreed with romances (as far as I know that would be Ashara/SI for example -- at least non Togruta SIs -- there's no drama there, just the generic "I will teach your children if you die early" conversation that admittedly seemed rather out of place. Ashara, please, you mean our children that we're raising together anyway even if they'll only end up having my DNA....) I'd also be surprised if the Sith particularly care about whether you do artificial insemination (esp since they have a big eugenics programme that modifies quite a bunch of things for those that come out of it, if you look at the Watchers in the Agent story, especially the later generation we see in Act 3). Marriage politics would be the bigger worry, though who knows if a marriage *has* to be m/f to work for an alliance. At least Sith *are* scandalized by Sith getting with non-Sith (ie that Lord that gets talked about at the party Zash attends while you kill Skotia and who got with a Mandalorian) and I wouldn't be surprised if that's much more important to the Sith/the Empire than whether you marry someone of the same gender. Don't think they're gonna basically do a Star Wars version of DA:I's Dorian romance/personal plot. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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