Fallen Empire and Implications on Current Raiding

[znihilist]

Plus like, isn't it just easier to be like "Ok guys, we see you're concerned and upset. Yes there are New Ops, we will unveil further info down the line in a blog."

 

Like, why make your job harder on yourself Eric?! If it's Yes we all say yea, and we get excited for said blog, and all talk about it and spread the word. Now its all just speculation, and rumor, and negativity. If it's No then don't tip toe around. This is constantly our complaint with the information flow between you and us. We WANT to help you. We WANT to get excited with you. Stringing us along as the reading between the lines of what "Story Driven" year means for all the other Pillars of the MMO SWTOR.

 

Just yes or no. That's all we want. It's not hard. I think we already know the answer. Just will October 27th have a new Operation?

 

Because there a good chance that there isn't any and he is trying to do preemptive damage control. Couple of sentences saying no will be less effective at that than a full blog explaining the rational.

[Nickious]

Just yes or no. That's all we want. It's not hard. I think we already know the answer. Just will October 27th have a new Operation?

 

I suspect you and others won't be happy with the answer. A blog will probably ease the blow with the rationale behind their decision instead of a curt "no".

 

Honestly SOR was the clue as to their coming trend of releasing operations slowlyA pity, but they most not perceive much a demand for them according to in game metrics, polls, etc.

 

This in particular didn't seem reassurring towards player interest toward OPs, and this was actually during a time when this game was more populated and DF and DP just came out a few weeks prior. The results rather surprising to me considering how vocal raiders typically are on these forums.

 

http://www.swtor.com/community/showthread.php?t=695256

 

I haven't even played Ravages and TOS myself. Nobody in my big guild or in PUG runs wants someone who has never done it, which as totally disinterested me from trying.

 

And no I'm not saying "screw all raiders", but I can see rationale behind it.

Edited June 17, 2015 by Nickious

[RoboArthurDayne]

If you guys don't like the lack of raiding content or whatnot you could always unsubscribe. That way you are doing something instead of crying and sulking like a baby.

[znihilist]

If you guys don't like the lack of raiding content or whatnot you could always unsubscribe. That way you are doing something instead of crying and sulking like a baby.

 

If you guys don't like the feedback on the potential lack of raiding content or whatnot you could always unsubscribe. That way you are doing something instead of crying and sulking like a baby.

[maebeebuzz]

If you guys don't like the lack of raiding content or whatnot you could always unsubscribe. That way you are doing something instead of crying and sulking like a baby.

 

I mean, what do people who dont raid, or dont PvP do all day? Do you just level character all day? Are you even good? Do you care?

I will never understand about how caring about something you like, or support, or PAY FOR, and giving feedback makes me you a crybaby or sulking. Are you just here to blindly throw $15 to some random suits to contribute to their lifestyles? You're the reason they can get away with only working on ONE thing at a time.

[RoboArthurDayne]

I mean, what do people who dont raid, or dont PvP do all day? Do you just level character all day? Are you even good? Do you care?

I will never understand about how caring about something you like, or support, or PAY FOR, and giving feedback makes me you a crybaby or sulking. Are you just here to blindly throw $15 to some random suits to contribute to their lifestyles? You're the reason they can get away with only working on ONE thing at a time.

 

I pay Bioware EA $15 a month so I can enjoy the things this game currently offers and also what they are planning to offer in the future (Fallen Empire for example).

 

These things just happen to be different or not including what you guys care about such as "endgame operations and pvp" etc etc.

 

If Bioware EA stops focusing on the stuff that I enjoy and I believe the future releases will not focus on said content or stuff I will unsubscribe, simple as that.

 

Bioware EA is a business, that is why I said if you don't like the way the game is or is heading then unsubscribe.

 

From there it's up to Bioware EA to reassess and decide if they think it's worth it to add additional specific content. etc etc

[Peachbrah]

I pay Bioware EA $15 a month so I can enjoy the things this game currently offers and also what they are planning to offer in the future (Fallen Empire for example).

 

These things just happen to be different or not including what you guys care about such as "endgame operations and pvp" etc etc.

 

If Bioware EA stops focusing on the stuff that I enjoy and I believe the future releases will not focus on said content or stuff I will unsubscribe, simple as that.

 

Bioware EA is a business, that is why I said if you don't like the way the game is or is heading then unsubscribe.

 

From there it's up to Bioware EA to reassess and decide if they think it's worth it to add additional specific content. etc etc

 

Congrats on being the lowest common denominator.

 

I bet you buy COD every year too.

Edited June 18, 2015 by Peachbrah

[annabethchase]

I mean, what do people who dont raid, or dont PvP do all day? Do you just level character all day? Are you even good? Do you care?

I will never understand about how caring about something you like, or support, or PAY FOR, and giving feedback makes me you a crybaby or sulking. Are you just here to blindly throw $15 to some random suits to contribute to their lifestyles? You're the reason they can get away with only working on ONE thing at a time.

 

And you wonder why people don't want to join raiding guilds anymore. Attitudes like this are killing raiding in this game. Let me try to give you a clue, you need to promote a raiding environment that is friendly, fun and inclusive OR raiding is going to die out entirely.

 

As it is, attitudes like this have driven off so many people that raid tiers last over a year or more. Are you trying to push it even further into the future?

 

Hints: being "good" at a video game isn't very important. Having pre-determined goals to "accomplish" daily in a video game isn't important. If you treat this as serious business you are doing it wrong. It's a story driven video game, not a job.

[AdmiralBlue]

Congrats on being the lowest common denominator.

 

I bet you buy COD every year too.

 

Go shave your neckbeard.

[maebeebuzz]

And you wonder why people don't want to join raiding guilds anymore. Attitudes like this are killing raiding in this game. Let me try to give you a clue, you need to promote a raiding environment that is friendly, fun and inclusive OR raiding is going to die out entirely.

 

As it is, attitudes like this have driven off so many people that raid tiers last over a year or more. Are you trying to push it even further into the future?

 

Hints: being "good" at a video game isn't very important. Having pre-determined goals to "accomplish" daily in a video game isn't important. If you treat this as serious business you are doing it wrong. It's a story driven video game, not a job.

 

I responded to this, then realized i Didn't care.

Edited June 18, 2015 by maebeebuzz

[Capote]

And you wonder why people don't want to join raiding guilds anymore. Attitudes like this are killing raiding in this game. Let me try to give you a clue, you need to promote a raiding environment that is friendly, fun and inclusive OR raiding is going to die out entirely.

 

As it is, attitudes like this have driven off so many people that raid tiers last over a year or more. Are you trying to push it even further into the future?

 

Hints: being "good" at a video game isn't very important. Having pre-determined goals to "accomplish" daily in a video game isn't important. If you treat this as serious business you are doing it wrong. It's a story driven video game, not a job.

 

Competitive gameplay moves the biggest games in the market. Have you seen anyone been "fun and friendly" in lol, cs, dota or w/e other top 10 online games nowadays? You need to be extremely naive to actually believe that the problem here is the "raiding environment". This kind of environment is actually what drives people to play. People are competitive.

 

 

And actually, the tip goes for you: what I consider serious or important is my problem, my money. This vision of gaming being laid-back only is extremely old. Things moved on grandpa, people can actually work from that now and there is an entire new industry for competition on it. Competition dominates the online gaming scene.

 

 

What killed PvP is not the PvP envinronment, it is that they brute-force kicked out every PvPer from this game with no content and horrible design choices. Same is starting to happen to raids. It is easy to kick out everyone and then say "pvp and pve is minority". People stop playing because there is no content, not because someone mistreated them.

 

If you guys don't like the lack of raiding content or whatnot you could always unsubscribe. That way you are doing something instead of crying and sulking like a baby.

 

This is seriously a higher level of density. "You don't like something you can't try to discuss and improve it, just pretend it doesn't exist".

Edited June 18, 2015 by Capote

[annabethchase]

competitive gamers play MOBA's now, not MMO's. Or they play console shooters. Anyone bragging about being leet in an MMO should probably take their talents to a more competitive arena. It's like bragging about how you did in high school ball when you're grown.

[Capote]

competitive gamers play MOBA's now, not MMO's. Or they play console shooters. Anyone bragging about being leet in an MMO should probably take their talents to a more competitive arena. It's like bragging about how you did in high school ball when you're grown.

 

Actually, the biggest MMO in the market survives from competition in both PvE and PvP. Have been like that for over 6 years. Same goes for other big MMOs around such as gw2, eve, tera and lineage. I'm sorry but you have a very old vision of online gaming.

 

And no, competitive people don't only play mobas or "console shooters". CS is PC only and the biggest FPS in the market, for instance. Starcraft is also very competitive and an entirely different genre (RTS). Same goes for sports (FIFA and MADDEN) and several other genres. Hearthstone is also a honorable mention.

 

Only big exception is probably Nintendo and its games. But hey, even pokemon lives from competition nowadays and E3 started with a Nintendo tournament.

Edited June 18, 2015 by Capote

[MeNaCe-NZ]

Competitive gameplay moves the biggest games in the market. Have you seen anyone been "fun and friendly" in lol, cs, dota or w/e other top 10 online games nowadays? You need to be extremely naive to actually believe that the problem here is the "raiding environment". This kind of environment is actually what drives people to play. People are competitive.

 

 

And actually, the tip goes for you: what I consider serious or important is my problem, my money. This vision of gaming being laid-back only is extremely old. Things moved on grandpa, people can actually work from that now and there is an entire new industry for competition on it. Competition dominates the online gaming scene.

 

 

What killed PvP is not the PvP envinronment, it is that they brute-force kicked out every PvPer from this game with no content and horrible design choices. Same is starting to happen to raids. It is easy to kick out everyone and then say "pvp and pve is minority". People stop playing because there is no content, not because someone mistreated them. Please stop creating ridiculous excuses.

 

 

 

This is seriously a higher level of density. "You don't like something you can't try to discuss and improve it, just pretend it doesn't exist".

 

Firstly by definition raiding isn't competitive, it's cooperative. The only competitive part is racing other groups or people to gear or doing something first/before other people but the raid in of itself is cooperative, you aren't actually competing against anyone else when you raid.

 

Secondly the vision of gaming being laid back is the more modern vision. I'm not sure how "old" you are but back when I first started playing games they were incredibly difficult and when they first started making actual competitive games they were just as challenging in beating your opposition as they are today. Gear grinding is not a challenge ( i.e. PVP/GSF and the only "competitive" part of raiding ), it's more of a trigger mechanism to the little OCD in all of us.

 

Whilst I would agree PVP has suffered a big lack of content ( not so much PVE at all being this is a RETURN to a story content focus meaning the focus wasn't there before ) the biggest issue wasn't the lack of content but the accessibility ( the gear grind ) that people hated. Almost all the games you quoted initially don't suffer this to the degree you get in MMO PVP ( or at all ) - you play, you die, you good. Not you play, you die, you collect coins, you get some gear, you keep doing it and get some more gear and eventualyl you have good enough gear you can compete against the people who already had good gear to see if you are better than them even though you may have been all along.

[Capote]

Firstly by definition raiding isn't competitive, it's cooperative. The only competitive part is racing other groups or people to gear or doing something first/before other people but the raid in of itself is cooperative, you aren't actually competing against anyone else when you raid.

 

Secondly the vision of gaming being laid back is the more modern vision. I'm not sure how "old" you are but back when I first started playing games they were incredibly difficult and when they first started making actual competitive games they were just as challenging in beating your opposition as they are today. Gear grinding is not a challenge ( i.e. PVP/GSF and the only "competitive" part of raiding ), it's more of a trigger mechanism to the little OCD in all of us.

 

Whilst I would agree PVP has suffered a big lack of content ( not so much PVE at all being this is a RETURN to a story content focus meaning the focus wasn't there before ) the biggest issue wasn't the lack of content but the accessibility ( the gear grind ) that people hated. Almost all the games you quoted initially don't suffer this to the degree you get in MMO PVP ( or at all ) - you play, you die, you good. Not you play, you die, you collect coins, you get some gear, you keep doing it and get some more gear and eventualyl you have good enough gear you can compete against the people who already had good gear to see if you are better than them even though you may have been all along.

 

Raiding is not competitive in THIS GAME. But even then they tried to make a tournament for timed runs this year, remember that?

 

Second, hard is different from competitive. Again the biggest games in the market are COMPETITIVE, not hard. CS and LOL are the best examples. You can't deny the gigantic evolution in the competitive scene and how it dominates the market nowadays.

 

Third, please note that I mentioned both lack of content and BAD DESIGN CHOICES, which is where I would include the gear grind. Ah, it is worth mentioning that you need more than a month of grind before getting in rankeds on LOL, too, and that doesn't stop people. See, if you are always playing with people of your level and that have the "same gear" (runes and masteries, in the example) as you then there is no problem at all.

 

Either way guys, my main point here is that the competitive environment didn't hurt the population. It was the horrible choices they made during development.

Edited June 18, 2015 by Capote

[Rafaman]

Thanks for addressing this, looking forward to the update.

 

 

 

? The post doesnt say that they are working on ops. I'd guess so, they want to rescale old ones after all.

Jury is still out on whether or not there will be new operations. 'We have plans for Operations' might suggest something new. Maybe an entirely different reason to do ops besides gear progression. We'll see.

 

Really? Now you are going to claim it is all good? Are you going to retract your fear mongering or just continue to be oblivious.

[MbaxterBeau]

I hate raiding lol.

[MeNaCe-NZ]

Raiding is not competitive in THIS GAME. But even then they tried to make a tournament for timed runs this year, remember that?

 

Second, hard is different from competitive. Again the biggest games in the market are COMPETITIVE, not hard. CS and LOL are the best examples. You can't deny the gigantic evolution in the competitive scene and how it dominates the market nowadays.

 

Third, please note that I mentioned both lack of content and BAD DESIGN CHOICES, which is where I would include the gear grind. Ah, it is worth mentioning that you need more than a month of grind before getting in rankeds on LOL, too, and that doesn't stop people. See, if you are always playing with people of your level and that have the "same gear" (runes and masteries, in the example) as you then there is no problem at all.

 

This game is what we're talking about and referring to as this is what the changes are coming to. I don't give a crap what other games are doing.

 

That tournament never happened for whatever reason, maybe lack of interest, most likely due to too many bugs but either way you can't use something that never occurred to prove a point about competitiveness.

 

Hard and competitive go hand in hand. The harder it is to be the best of the best then the less best of the best there will be and the more respectable someone will be for reaching said goals. If there were no hard to it then everyone would be able to mroe or less reach the same pinnacle of skill level and that respect would ebb.

 

Likewise the games are also easy because the revolution has actually come in the casual market. Casual players play those games too and make up the majority of the market for them, they realise how hard it is to be good and respect those good players for it. Thus they are willing to watch them play and even buy merchandise these days. Without that casual aspect you wouldn't have those casual players playing and you wouldn't see the media attention you currently see for competitive gaming.

 

I don't think there has been a revolution in competitive play at all, I just think that it comes down to marketing and the digital age we live in that has driven it forward. CS I remember from back in the half life 1 days I believe it was and before that was quake and doom 2 and doom for example. The formula really hasn't changed that much in a lot of regards.

 

Raiding doesn't really have a lack of content either nor has it been proven there will be a lack, if anythign BW are saying more is coming but it just isn't there focus as it once was. PVP in this game is always going to be about beating a dead dog unfortunately because they seem to refuse to move away from this staple MMO gear grind. I would say the lack of maps etc. PVP Gets is proof positive that in this game there realyl is a very small minority actively playing as their primary reason for playing.

[FerkWork]

I hate raiding lol.

 

Lol I love raiding. I just don't like raiding the same thing over and over again.

Except Monolith only because it refuses to give out a Willpower hilt. Fffffffffffffffudge.

 

On a different note, I respect people who don't raid and by nature a very cautious person before jumping to conclusions. I think we should all take a deep breath and way for more info before mudslinging each other. It's embarrassing.

[AMightyKnight]

Really? Now you are going to claim it is all good? Are you going to retract your fear mongering or just continue to be oblivious.

No i'm not going to claim its all good. Dont know why you would get that impression. The post doesnt address the concerns about new operatons.

Im still convinced we wont see new ops this year and i still think its very likely we wont see anything before q3 2016. And it still sucks for raiders and will hurt certain portions of the player community.

 

The post might suggest a new and different approach as to why we run operations however. If i had to guess i'd say it might have something to do with the player alliance system they wont talk about yet.

Whether or not it would be a good change and provide enough reason for a majority of raiders to run rescaled content - i dont know. We have to wait for more information.

For me personally, rescaled content is just not funny. No matter what reward system you put on top of it.

Edited June 18, 2015 by AMightyKnight

[MandFlurry]

He is excited about the ops rescale, don't get hyped for new ops

 

Don't spread Lies. He didn't say anything about re-scaling the Current Ops. Learn to read better, he said that he's excited about Operations.

 

He didn't say New or Old, also news of any Expansion this earlry doesn't and hasn't happened before. They have a Long while to tell ppl everything. They didn't have to tell us about This Expansion yet, but they have been very excited about this Expansion, as are most ppl like me.

 

Usually Bioware doesn't tell ppl ppl about this much about their Eaxpanion til' it's only 2 months away, and were a full 4 Months away.

 

We know more about this Expansion than any other expansion they have done before.

 

If they told every1 about this Expansion now, it sure as hell wouldn't be of much benefit to Bioware of most of us Customers, as every1 would whine, and some ppl like me would almost want the Expansion Now not Later.

 

I wouldn't expect any new Ops til' January myself, maybe even later because of all the Storylines. New Ops tend to give away Storyline Secrets.

[MbaxterBeau]

Lol I love raiding. I just don't like raiding the same thing over and over again.

Except Monolith only because it refuses to give out a Willpower hilt. Fffffffffffffffudge.

 

On a different note, I respect people who don't raid and by nature a very cautious person before jumping to conclusions. I think we should all take a deep breath and way for more info before mudslinging each other. It's embarrassing.

 

I want them to add raids. I believe it is important to try and give every portion of the player base content. My statement about me hating raiding stems from me being a clicker lol.

[FerkWork]

I want them to add raids. I believe it is important to try and give every portion of the player base content. My statement about me hating raiding stems from me being a clicker lol.

 

My last part was directed at everyone in general.

Clickers unite!!

I also backpedal.

Edited June 18, 2015 by FerkWork

[Capote]

Don't spread Lies. He didn't say anything about re-scaling the Current Ops. Learn to read better, he said that he's excited about Operations.

 

He didn't say New or Old, also news of any Expansion this earlry doesn't and hasn't happened before. They have a Long while to tell ppl everything. They didn't have to tell us about This Expansion yet, but they have been very excited about this Expansion, as are most ppl like me.

 

Usually Bioware doesn't tell ppl ppl about this much about their Eaxpanion til' it's only 2 months away, and were a full 4 Months away.

 

We know more about this Expansion than any other expansion they have done before.

 

If they told every1 about this Expansion now, it sure as hell wouldn't be of much benefit to Bioware of most of us Customers, as every1 would whine, and some ppl like me would almost want the Expansion Now not Later.

 

I wouldn't expect any new Ops til' January myself, maybe even later because of all the Storylines. New Ops tend to give away Storyline Secrets.

 

It's not a lie just because you don't read the sources. Another dev confirmed they are recycling old OPS and everyone knows that:

 

"Additionally, many of our existing Flashpoints and Operations are being scaled to 60+, giving you many more Elder Game options at Level 65."

 

Also, you are the one who lied when you said they don't talk about operations that early. There is a post talking about new operations 8 months before SOR (producer's roadmap of march/2014).

 

I understand people WANT to believe in something and hide the head on dirt for it, but really, how can someone pretend that much that new operations are coming this year is beyond me. It's like you close your eyes, put your hands on your ears and yell with all your heart non-stop "WAIT FOR EXPANSION, WAIT FOR EXPANSION".

Edited June 18, 2015 by Capote

[Jadescythe]

I want them to add raids. I believe it is important to try and give every portion of the player base content. My statement about me hating raiding stems from me being a clicker lol.

 

Clicking doesn't matter in operations. You'll do better with keybindings, but you won't be moving most of the time anyway. If all you want to do is storymode, then go for it. Maybe get a mouse with a couple buttons on it and start adding important skills to binds, especially ones you can use while moving, and work your way up from there.