Theran Shan?

[BlueShiftRecall]

I hope so though only if they stick to it. I do a lot better when I know when something's coming out but at the same time if I wait 6 months and then it's delayed there will be much weeping and gnashing of teeth.

 

Yes not another delay at the late minute again this time around.

 

To be honest I'm more concerned about poor Theron at this stage than I am about the "traitor."

[Nefla]

Yes not another delay at the late minute again this time around.

 

To be honest I'm more concerned about poor Theron at this stage than I am about the "traitor."

 

Same here

[Raynezazki]

Same here

 

Hopefully we'll be able to talk to him about it in the next chapter.

[americanaussie]

If they delay it by 6 months then we will not be getting all 5 pieces by Dec. They've just released next ops boss image so I'd say we should be getting it sooner and not later. Theron needs comforted. We can't wait too long I hope they don't glaze over it.

[BlueShiftRecall]

Theron needs comforted. We can't wait too long I hope they don't glaze over it.

 

Hopefully we'll be able to talk to him about it in the next chapter.

 

I fully agree, they've painted a rather bleak picture of Theron and what he's going through/feeling at the end of Iokath, they couldn't possibly just skip over this completely....right?

[americanaussie]

So I just started reading annihilation. *Hugs baby Theron* no wonder he has mom issues. :(

 

 

Satele gives birth and holds Theron in her arms for a minute before passing the child to Master Zho saying "Take it away." It? It?! Master Zho tells her to reconsider but she chooses to fight for the republic believing that's more important. Master Zho asks for her son's name and her response is "You name him since you'll be raising him." She wanted nothing to do with him after she held him. she memorised that moment then moved on. So sad. My heart broke reading it.

 

 

[Nefla]

So I just started reading annihilation. *Hugs baby Theron* no wonder he has mom issues. :(

 

 

Satele gives birth and holds Theron in her arms for a minute before passing the child to Master Zho saying "Take it away." It? It?! Master Zho tells her to reconsider but she chooses to fight for the republic believing that's more important. Master Zho asks for her son's name and her response is "You name him since you'll be raising him." She wanted nothing to do with him after she held him. she memorised that moment then moved on. So sad. My heart broke reading it.

 

Yeah that broke my heart too and of all the options to choose for raising him (let his freaking DAD have him, find a loving couple to adopt him, put on her big girl pants and raise him herself) she chooses to have him be raised by a jedi and trained to be a jedi without knowing if he'll be force sensitive...another disappointment for him. The worst part of the whole thing to me though was her complete selfishness and arrogance to think that only she knew best and that she alone should be able to make decisions about Theron. She decided that Jace wasn't good enough to know about his son. Theron should have been raised by his father.

[SithKoriandr]

Yeah that broke my heart too and of all the options to choose for raising him (let his freaking DAD have him, find a loving couple to adopt him, put on her big girl pants and raise him herself) she chooses to have him be raised by a jedi and trained to be a jedi without knowing if he'll be force sensitive...another disappointment for him. The worst part of the whole thing to me though was her complete selfishness and arrogance to think that only she knew best and that she alone should be able to make decisions about Theron. She decided that Jace wasn't good enough to know about his son. Theron should have been raised by his father.

 

While I agree, that leads to the thought that if he was raised by Jace, he'd likely be a totally different man.

 

Satele herself, terrible what she did, but sadly Jedi are still only human (that includes the aliens who still seem to act human ).

 

However, it's my understanding (haven't read the books) that Zho was more than willing to raise Theron and was a good adoptive father. Why do people hate on the adoptive parent?

 

I always felt this was another case of "He wasn't my real parent!" which is kinda the vibe Theron seems to throw off, which always leads me to wonder, "Why adopt, if that's going to be thrown in your face."

[kukumburr]

While I agree, that leads to the thought that if he was raised by Jace, he'd likely be a totally different man.

 

Satele herself, terrible what she did, but sadly Jedi are still only human (that includes the aliens who still seem to act human ).

 

However, it's my understanding (haven't read the books) that Zho was more than willing to raise Theron and was a good adoptive father. Why do people hate on the adoptive parent?

 

I always felt this was another case of "He wasn't my real parent!" which is kinda the vibe Theron seems to throw off, which always leads me to wonder, "Why adopt, if that's going to be thrown in your face."

 

From the book and the comics I always got the impression Theron cared a great deal about Zho, and I think when Jace tells him that he's his father Theron gets defensive and says Zho was his real father. I don't think it's so much that Zho was a worse parent or anything but he was a Jedi Master and so when he raised Theron that's what he taught him and it never seemed like he considered that he wouldn't be force sensitive. He also basically just dumped him off at a Jedi Academy when he was old enough (again despite showing no signs of being force sensitive).

 

So it kind of messed Theron up since I think he was disappointed that he couldn't be a Jedi despite being raised as one and always being told about how great his mother is and everything. And then he also seemed to feel like he disappointed Zho, since Zho always expected Theron to be a Jedi and sort of remained in denial when it didn't look like he could use the force. So I think it's just more that being raised by a Jedi Master probably isn't the best idea if there's another option. Although I'm not sure Jace was really in a position to raise a kid by himself either if he was constantly on the front lines.

[AnyaHeart]

So I just started reading annihilation. *Hugs baby Theron* no wonder he has mom issues. :(

 

 

Satele gives birth and holds Theron in her arms for a minute before passing the child to Master Zho saying "Take it away." It? It?! Master Zho tells her to reconsider but she chooses to fight for the republic believing that's more important. Master Zho asks for her son's name and her response is "You name him since you'll be raising him." She wanted nothing to do with him after she held him. she memorised that moment then moved on. So sad. My heart broke reading it.

 

 

Wait until you read the end of the book then your heart will really break.

 

From the book and the comics I always got the impression Theron cared a great deal about Zho, and I think when Jace tells him that he's his father Theron gets defensive and says Zho was his real father.

 

I think Theron's exact words are something in the line of "Master Zho was my father. He is the one who raised me. He is the one who made me who I am today" so yes the two, despite everything, seemed to have a close relationship.

[BlueShiftRecall]

All these posts are making me feel horrible for poor Theron.

 

If you have Theron set as a healer one of the lines he says is, "Master Zho would be proud." Or something very similar.

[Nefla]

While I agree, that leads to the thought that if he was raised by Jace, he'd likely be a totally different man.

 

Satele herself, terrible what she did, but sadly Jedi are still only human (that includes the aliens who still seem to act human ).

 

However, it's my understanding (haven't read the books) that Zho was more than willing to raise Theron and was a good adoptive father. Why do people hate on the adoptive parent?

 

I always felt this was another case of "He wasn't my real parent!" which is kinda the vibe Theron seems to throw off, which always leads me to wonder, "Why adopt, if that's going to be thrown in your face."

 

It's not that I'm against adoption, I'm very pro-adoption (and like others have said, Theron considers master Zho his father) and if I ever have kids it will be through adoption. My problem isn't that Theron wasn't raised by his biological parents, it's that he was essentially kidnapped from his biological father who got zero say in his life. I can only imagine if that kind of thing happened to me, the father of my child decides unilaterally that I suck because I'm too passionate about defending my home and loved ones and that I might turn into some kind of maniac when protecting my son so said baby-daddy just hides my son and we are completely robbed of each other, his whole childhood gone. Even meeting him as an adult, there is no way to establish the kind of relationship we would have had if baby-daddy didn't steal him away but not raise our son himself, rather dump him on someone else and keep me in the dark about it.

 

I would have understood Satele's decision to give her son up for adoption (if she didn't know who the father was, he was dead, or wanted nothing to do with the baby) though I would not make that choice myself, it's her decision to selfishly keep him from his father that sickens me.

[americanaussie]

It's not that I'm against adoption, I'm very pro-adoption (and like others have said, Theron considers master Zho his father) and if I ever have kids it will be through adoption. My problem isn't that Theron wasn't raised by his biological parents, it's that he was essentially kidnapped from his biological father who got zero say in his life. I can only imagine if that kind of thing happened to me, the father of my child decides unilaterally that I suck because I'm too passionate about defending my home and loved ones and that I might turn into some kind of maniac when protecting my son so said baby-daddy just hides my son and we are completely robbed of each other, his whole childhood gone. Even meeting him as an adult, there is no way to establish the kind of relationship we would have had if baby-daddy didn't steal him away but not raise our son himself, rather dump him on someone else and keep me in the dark about it.

 

I would have understood Satele's decision to give her son up for adoption (if she didn't know who the father was, he was dead, or wanted nothing to do with the baby) though I would not make that choice myself, it's her decision to selfishly keep him from his father that sickens me.

 

Oh I totally agree, Malcolm should have been told, however, here's my *naïve as I've not physically read this* thoughts.

 

Satele left Malcolm out of fear. Two fears. She feared the dark side in his heart, and she feared what it would do to her. Now, in my 21st century mind, I can understand Satele leaving Malcolm because she felt that she was in danger. I can even reason with it that maybe she was terrified enough that she thought she was protecting Theron by not telling Malcolm. Malcolm, from some earlier spoilers on here, isn't shown as being thoughtful or caring when it comes to his soldier mission.

 

That said, I think he would have been an equally terrible parent as he also placed the war and the republic above family aka Theron. I don't see him leaving the military to raise Theron, so Theron would have been shipped off to a nanny, foster home, etc.

 

Satele chose Zho because she trusted Zho. She does have a moment when holding Theron, and Zho practically begs her to reconsider and raise her child at least twice. My guess is that she regrets her decision but I've not read that yet.

 

Given how he was raised though, it's no wonder he is very protective over the romanced Commanders. He threw himself into his work because he had nothing else. Our toons are probably the sunshine in his rather dark world.

 

For anyone who hasn't played Iokath Empire side:

 

When Malcolm pulls out a gun, Theron follows suit. If you select, Don't kill him over me, my love, I couldn't live with myself. Theron says: And I couldn't live without you. Malcolm goes on about Theron choosing a tyrant over him, his father and the republic, and Theron tells him point blank. I have.

 

If it were me writing the next part, I'd probably throw Theron into his work even more for imperial siding characters. I would do so because of his statement after we wake up on how our nightmares must be almost as bad as his. His is likely to be the worst thing imaginable - losing our romanced Commanders. Now, that there's a traitor trying to kill us, he will probably work triple time to find out who it is. I really don't think he has a remote chance of being the traitor either. I know in the spoilers people thought it could be, but I definitely don't. Theron's a big teddy bear.

 

 

[Ralei]

 

 

If it were me writing the next part, I'd probably throw Theron into his work even more for imperial siding characters. I would do so because of his statement after we wake up on how our nightmares must be almost as bad as his. His is likely to be the worst thing imaginable - losing our romanced Commanders. Now, that there's a traitor trying to kill us, he will probably work triple time to find out who it is. I really don't think he has a remote chance of being the traitor either. I know in the spoilers people thought it could be, but I definitely don't. Theron's a big teddy bear.

 

 

but he sort of does lose the romanced commander immediately after that if you're a warrior with Quinn Talk about kicking a guy when he's down.

 

The story situation, from Theron's perspective, can go from happy times, to ok, to bad, to slit your wrists terrible.

 

 

Best case is fighting the Empire with his Dad alive and happy along with his one true love light side hero Outlander. Yay, nothing's complicated, everybody's happy.

 

Or, worst case, you could be a dark side warrior and choose the Empire over the Republic, so he has to come in direct conflict with his father, who tells him he's disowned him. Then, after he makes it clear he's chosen the Outlander over his father, he gets to watch him die and can't make amends for it. Then, after all that, the warrior can accuse him of being the traitor and run off with her long lost husband. lol That's got to be rock bottom.

I hope the story goes up for him from there, cause you shouldn't do that to the poor characters you write

[kukumburr]

For anyone who hasn't played Iokath Empire side:

 

When Malcolm pulls out a gun, Theron follows suit. If you select, Don't kill him over me, my love, I couldn't live with myself. Theron says: And I couldn't live without you. Malcolm goes on about Theron choosing a tyrant over him, his father and the republic, and Theron tells him point blank. I have.

 

If it were me writing the next part, I'd probably throw Theron into his work even more for imperial siding characters. I would do so because of his statement after we wake up on how our nightmares must be almost as bad as his. His is likely to be the worst thing imaginable - losing our romanced Commanders. Now, that there's a traitor trying to kill us, he will probably work triple time to find out who it is. I really don't think he has a remote chance of being the traitor either. I know in the spoilers people thought it could be, but I definitely don't. Theron's a big teddy bear.

 

 

Does he say the nightmares line only for romanced + empire side? Or is it always for empire side? Just curious, I've always sided with republic so far so I've only heard the "put a sock in your mouth" line (gee thanks Theron).

[americanaussie]

Does he say the nightmares line only for romanced + empire side? Or is it always for empire side? Just curious, I've always sided with republic so far so I've only heard the "put a sock in your mouth" line (gee thanks Theron).

 

I have a great love for Theron so I don't know if it's said in non romanced ones actually. Didn't think about that. But it makes me sad that his joking upbeat personality is gone on empire side. It makes me wonder who found the commander on the floor after blacking out on the chair. If it was Theron, did his mind flash back to seeing her father die the same way? He'd have probably gone in full panic mode as twice now he's said he can't lose the commander. CH 5 of kotet is the other time. And twice (three times CH 13 kotfe, CH 2 kotet, CH 5 kotet?) he's claimed that he's nearly had a heart attack.

[CloudCastle]

Does he say the nightmares line only for romanced + empire side? Or is it always for empire side? Just curious, I've always sided with republic so far so I've only heard the "put a sock in your mouth" line (gee thanks Theron).

 

He said that line to my male agent who was not romancing him as well.

 

Theron has a really rough time in that scene with his father. Even though I play my agent as mostly a heartless jerk, I couldn't bring myself to be mean to Theron after he chose me over his father. I had my agent say something like, "hey, I'm around if you need anything."

[Nefla]

What is the nightmare line you guys are talking about? I've only gotten the sock-in-mouth line (after which I wanted to make an inappropriate comment lol )

[SithKoriandr]

It's not that I'm against adoption, I'm very pro-adoption (and like others have said, Theron considers master Zho his father) and if I ever have kids it will be through adoption. My problem isn't that Theron wasn't raised by his biological parents, it's that he was essentially kidnapped from his biological father who got zero say in his life. I can only imagine if that kind of thing happened to me, the father of my child decides unilaterally that I suck because I'm too passionate about defending my home and loved ones and that I might turn into some kind of maniac when protecting my son so said baby-daddy just hides my son and we are completely robbed of each other, his whole childhood gone. Even meeting him as an adult, there is no way to establish the kind of relationship we would have had if baby-daddy didn't steal him away but not raise our son himself, rather dump him on someone else and keep me in the dark about it.

 

I would have understood Satele's decision to give her son up for adoption (if she didn't know who the father was, he was dead, or wanted nothing to do with the baby) though I would not make that choice myself, it's her decision to selfishly keep him from his father that sickens me.

 

Oh, I agree, Malcom should have been told. However, as someone else mentioned, Satele felt him being dark sided, and I really can't imagine Malcom not being dark sided. Trooper storyline shows just how dark sided the military can be. Going light side is often against orders. Or going with orders that are just stupid (like thinking the idea of trading the killer of millions back to the Empire for thousands of prisoners).

 

Then there's Theron just being the type of adoptive child I'd hate to have. He's raised by Zho, considers him his father, but then still wants the approval of his biological parents. If he was abandoned when he was older, I'd understand the feeling, but he was given up the day he was born.

 

He never grew up to know Satele. He grew up with someone else as his parent, and then goes onto basically hating one parent for giving him up. Why? Zho was considered a great parent. Hating Satele basically means he hated Zho raising him.

 

His sense of abandoment issues comes from being given up before he was even a day old. Zho raised him and never gave him up. Malcom never knew he existed and if he did, what does Theron think he would have done? Quit the military? Doesn't seem likely.

[kukumburr]

Oh, I agree, Malcom should have been told. However, as someone else mentioned, Satele felt him being dark sided, and I really can't imagine Malcom not being dark sided. Trooper storyline shows just how dark sided the military can be. Going light side is often against orders. Or going with orders that are just stupid (like thinking the idea of trading the killer of millions back to the Empire for thousands of prisoners).

 

Then there's Theron just being the type of adoptive child I'd hate to have. He's raised by Zho, considers him his father, but then still wants the approval of his biological parents. If he was abandoned when he was older, I'd understand the feeling, but he was given up the day he was born.

 

He never grew up to know Satele. He grew up with someone else as his parent, and then goes onto basically hating one parent for giving him up. Why? Zho was considered a great parent. Hating Satele basically means he hated Zho raising him.

 

His sense of abandoment issues comes from being given up before he was even a day old. Zho raised him and never gave him up. Malcom never knew he existed and if he did, what does Theron think he would have done? Quit the military? Doesn't seem likely.

 

Zho did give him up, it just wasn't until he was older but he was still very much a boy. Zho said he had nothing more to teach him and sent him to a Jedi Academy, who promptly kicked him out since he wasn't force sensitive. So I think he definitely has some abandonment issues from that as well.

 

And I never got the impression that Theron hated Satele at all. He always said that logically he understands why she did it, he just still struggles with it on an emotional level despite understanding. I think most of his anger at her comes from the way she treats him now as an adult, where she never levels with him emotionally and just rigidly maintains her distance in a very irritatingly professional Jedi manner.

[Dracofish]

What is the nightmare line you guys are talking about? I've only gotten the sock-in-mouth line (after which I wanted to make an inappropriate comment lol )

 

You get it if you side with Acina during Iokath.

[SithKoriandr]

Zho did give him up, it just wasn't until he was older but he was still very much a boy. Zho said he had nothing more to teach him and sent him to a Jedi Academy, who promptly kicked him out since he wasn't force sensitive. So I think he definitely has some abandonment issues from that as well.

 

And I never got the impression that Theron hated Satele at all. He always said that logically he understands why she did it, he just still struggles with it on an emotional level despite understanding. I think most of his anger at her comes from the way she treats him now as an adult, where she never levels with him emotionally and just rigidly maintains her distance in a very irritatingly professional Jedi manner.

 

How old as a boy, it's looking to be about 18. Maybe wouldn't call him a man at that point, but 18 years old and his father needs to go to work.

 

As a spy who should be able to understand people to do his job better, you'd think he'd see it better from her side, especially since he thinks he can deduce who a traitor in the ranks is.

[kukumburr]

How old as a boy, it's looking to be about 18. Maybe wouldn't call him a man at that point, but 18 years old and his father needs to go to work.

 

As a spy who should be able to understand people to do his job better, you'd think he'd see it better from her side, especially since he thinks he can deduce who a traitor in the ranks is.

 

You know I'm not sure it ever says anywhere how old he was exactly. In the comic he doesn't look 18 though, he looks maybe 13/14, 16 at most. And the guards at the Temple make a note of saying "it's just a boy..." when he collapses outside it. It wouldn't be so bad if he was 18, still pretty cold though.

[Nefla]

You get it if you side with Acina during Iokath.

What's the line though? So far I don't have any intentions of siding with the empire.

 

Oh, I agree, Malcom should have been told. However, as someone else mentioned, Satele felt him being dark sided, and I really can't imagine Malcom not being dark sided. Trooper storyline shows just how dark sided the military can be. Going light side is often against orders. Or going with orders that are just stupid (like thinking the idea of trading the killer of millions back to the Empire for thousands of prisoners).

 

Then there's Theron just being the type of adoptive child I'd hate to have. He's raised by Zho, considers him his father, but then still wants the approval of his biological parents. If he was abandoned when he was older, I'd understand the feeling, but he was given up the day he was born.

 

He never grew up to know Satele. He grew up with someone else as his parent, and then goes onto basically hating one parent for giving him up. Why? Zho was considered a great parent. Hating Satele basically means he hated Zho raising him.

 

His sense of abandoment issues comes from being given up before he was even a day old. Zho raised him and never gave him up. Malcom never knew he existed and if he did, what does Theron think he would have done? Quit the military? Doesn't seem likely.

IMO Jace has the kind of darkness that any normal person has. He's just not a calm, sagely, passionless jedi like Satele's ideal. Would he have been a good father? Would he have possibly retired from the military or gone from a front line fighter to a safer position like a strategist or something? Maybe, maybe not but because Satele decided she knew best (despite her lack of experience with children, family, and normal people)we'll never know. She was NEVER going to tell either of them, they had to figure it out on their own.

 

I've known plenty of adopted kids who consider their adoptive parents their "real" parents and don't care about their biological parents, I feel like the times when an adopted child completely rejects their adoptive parents are usually because said adoptive parents just weren't that great. Maybe they were cold and distant, maybe they kept reminding their child that they weren't their "real" child and that the kid should be grateful to be taken in as if the whole thing is some charity case and not a loving family. There are also those in the middle who love their adoptive parents and see them as their true parents but are still curious about their biological parents for various reasons. There is also a big issue of adopting outside one's race or culture which leaves the kid kind of feeling adrift and "other" despite the parent's best efforts. They've lost out on a cultural identity that their adoptive parents can't give them. As far as Theron goes, I didn't read the comics so my experience with master Zho was that one initial chapter in Annihilation but did Zho raise Theron as a father raises a son or as a Jedi master raises a Padawan? Even if he was mostly great I just can't see him being that warm and affectionate which is something a child needs. More sagely Jedi calm, correct me if I'm wrong. We know he was raised with the expectation that he'd become a Jedi, with no other path being considered so when that fell through it would be like the rug being pulled out from under him. Then when he finds out why his mother gave him up, it wasn't because she couldn't take care of him, it wasn't to give him a better life, it was because she wanted to keep fighting rather than raise him, because she thought herself so important that the Jedi wouldn't be able to withstand the loss if she left. That reasoning has got to be a blow to the psyche. You were just an unimportant nuisance to get rid of. Even so, he doesn't hate Satele, it's been shown that he actively cares about her and worries when she might be in trouble. He comes across as annoyed and somewhat bitter/resentful that even as an adult she doesn't acknowledge him as her son (calling him her "agent" on Rishi) or talk to him about it and if it were me again I'd be resentful of her robbing me of a relationship with my father.

[kukumburr]

What's the line though? So far I don't have any intentions of siding with the empire.

 

I think the exact line is "Your dreams are almost as bad as mine."