ladyinsanity Posted July 29, 2015 Share Posted July 29, 2015 We also know that the person playing the hands off demo that Lady Insanity saw was playing on the imperial side so that may just mean that imperials get rescued by Lana and republic characters get rescued by Theron (the way Lana recruited imps and Theron recruited pubs for the SoR prelude). If I'm wrong and Lana just saves everyone and is the new Talis or something I'm switching to full darkside and killing everyone A bit late but since this is part of the discussion, let me specify: they were making dark side choices. The character played was a Jedi. It seems Lana will be the one in direct charge of your rescue. Unless they spin the tables and Imperial-sided characters are actually saved by Theron. Which...wouldn't be bad at all. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Darth_Wicked Posted July 29, 2015 Share Posted July 29, 2015 Theron crushing on the PC no matter what confirmed. * shrugs * Fine by me. You only live once after all. A bit late but since this is part of the discussion, let me specify: they were making dark side choices. The character played was a Jedi. It seems Lana will be the one in direct charge of your rescue. Unless they spin the tables and Imperial-sided characters are actually saved by Theron. Which...wouldn't be bad at all. I find it unlikely, but that still sounds like a GREAT idea. Given the stakes, it isn't exactly THAT outlandish to imagine Lana and Theron working together yet again, directly. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cindlehr Posted July 29, 2015 Share Posted July 29, 2015 either way its at least a cute sign that he actually cares about you Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Darth_Wicked Posted July 29, 2015 Share Posted July 29, 2015 (edited) either way its at least a cute sign that he actually cares about you Guilty consciousness, truth be told. At that point in time, by involving the Sixth Line in his plan to infiltrate Ziost, he had his hands full of innocent blood -- including the one from the slaves and rescue squad killed by Master Surro. Long story short, Theron messed up. Bad. Edited July 29, 2015 by Darth_Wicked Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kukumburr Posted July 29, 2015 Share Posted July 29, 2015 A bit late but since this is part of the discussion, let me specify: they were making dark side choices. The character played was a Jedi. It seems Lana will be the one in direct charge of your rescue. Unless they spin the tables and Imperial-sided characters are actually saved by Theron. Which...wouldn't be bad at all. Interesting, thanks for clarifying. I thought it was a Sith for some reason. It would be kinda neat to have Theron rescue Imps and Lana rescue Pubs, but I'm guessing it's probably just Lana doing all the rescuing. I suppose Theron could have helped plan the rescue or something. But he might just come into the story later I guess. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Diviciacus Posted July 29, 2015 Share Posted July 29, 2015 Theron crushing on the PC no matter what confirmed. Unlike in real-life, the player is always the one to make the first move in games. Would be very interesting to see what would happen if that suddenly wasn't the case. Guilty consciousness, truth be told. At that point in time, by involving the Sixth Line in his plan to infiltrate Ziost, he had his hands full of innocent blood -- including the one from the slaves and rescue squad killed by Master Surro. Long story short, Theron messed up. Bad. Theron miscalculated. Saresh messed up. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Darth_Wicked Posted July 29, 2015 Share Posted July 29, 2015 (edited) Theron miscalculated. Saresh messed up. Nop. He did mess up BAD as well. Edited July 29, 2015 by Darth_Wicked Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sangiban Posted July 30, 2015 Share Posted July 30, 2015 I'm gonna agree with Wicked on this. As much as I like Theron, he worsened the situation by sending the Sixth Line into Ziost (which I believe he says Impside). At least on Impside, you can hear in his voice that he regrets it. He feels bad for prodding the hornet's nest. I forget if he says similar things Pubside, but I assume he does. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Xonell Posted July 30, 2015 Share Posted July 30, 2015 (edited) I honestly don't think Theron was to blame for the mess on Ziost. He acted on the information he had available. He suspected Vitiate was on Ziost and making trouble there, which was correct. Ordinary people could only do so much against Vitiate without access to the Force. So he went to a group of Jedi headed by Master Surro and asked them to be a strike team. The plan was to infiltrate, learn what they could, and if given the opportunity, stop Vitiate. Jedi had to be the ones to go in. His plan had two faults, but neither of them were on Theron. One, he chose the wrong Jedi. The Sixth Line were practically Dark Side Jedi, or at least not out of touch with that side of themselves. Vitiate could have taken control of anyone, including Sith already on the planet, but chose these Jedi because 1) they were easy to manipulate and 2) it was probably amusing / ironic. The second fault with the plan was in not having all the intel on Vitiate. Until this point, we had never seen mass mind control, not from Vitiate, not from anyone. No one knew this was possible. We had seen single individuals possessed or used or turned, but not mind control of everyone on a planet. And no one knew it was possible for Vitiate to consume an entire planet. Remember that Surro and the other members of the Sixth Line were all full Jedi Masters. They were adults responsible for their own choices. They chose to go to Ziost. It's not like Theron could have ordered them to go. He asked, they acted. Which, by the way, do you really think Theron was acting in a vacuum? He at least had the okay for this from the head of SIS, even if it was just a verbal one. Of course, what Theron should have done was come to you and asked for your help. This is more true for some classes than others but I can see arguments for any of them, especially if you romanced him. Maybe he was trying to keep you away and uninvolved in the whole thing with Vitiate, or maybe it's just Theron and his "I don't do teams" thing. I know my Jedi character would have told him the very idea of the Sixth Line sounded off. If anyone deserves blame for making things worse, it's Suresh, but even her actions only accelerated Vitiate's plan. Keep in mind the only reason she was mad was because Theron gained intel - that Ziost had a lot of unrest - and acted with Jedi instead of going straight to her so she could draw up battle plans. (With his father as Supreme Commander, I wonder about that dynamic too. Would they fight over this or would Malcom realize Suresh was wrong?) I would love to see a new game chapter with secret Republic Senate intelligence committee hearings about this whole thing, asking your character questions about Ziost and Theron Shan, and you're forced to answer questions about your involvement. I think it would be difficult if you had to provide answers about your relationship to Theron. I doubt they would put this in the game, but I definitely think it would happen in-universe. Edited July 30, 2015 by Xonell Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Xonell Posted July 30, 2015 Share Posted July 30, 2015 My defense of Theron, by the way, has nothing to do with realizing how much he blames himself. Sometimes things go wrong and, even if it's not really your fault, you feel guilty anyway. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Amadahy Posted July 30, 2015 Share Posted July 30, 2015 (edited) I've said it once, and I'll say it again....I love this thread and the discussions brought up here! I hate to say it but Theron did mess up pretty bad on Ziost. However, I feel it's more of a domino affect than him just sending in the Sixth Line blindly. He believed.... Kovach was his agent on this inside, and as Xonell said, went according to the information given. He sent the Sixth Line, screwed up, knew it, tried to fix it. We also have Saresh, and infinite stupidity, to go along with this as well. Additional Republic forces would not have been on Ziost if it wasn't for her. Their blood is in her hands, not Theron's. This almost feels like the Nar Shaddaa misson in Annihilation. Ziost was MUCH worse, but still, it's the same type of MMO. Theron believed he was going to prevent something, it blew up in his face and he was placed on leave. Edited July 30, 2015 by Amadahy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Xonell Posted July 30, 2015 Share Posted July 30, 2015 I've said it once, and I'll say it again....I love this thread and the discussions brought up here! I hate to say it but Theron did mess up pretty bad on Ziost. However, I feel it's more of a domino affect than him just sending in the Sixth Line blindly. I think it's more that he's indirectly responsible. If you're in a car and something external happens to make you lose control of the vehicle (ice, something in the road, deer) and people in another car are killed because your car swerved into them, then you are arguably at fault, but not because of any decisions you made. The only decision you made was to be on that road. It's the same for Theron. He had no way of knowing the road he was on would lead to total destruction. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sangiban Posted July 30, 2015 Share Posted July 30, 2015 (edited) snip Let me be more clear: I do think Theron is partially to blame for worsening the chaos on Ziost, but he doesn't get all the blame. That goes to Saresh and Kovach, with Saresh taking the biggest portion. To use my analogy: Theron prodded the hornet's nest. Saresh took the hornet's nest, shook it up, tossed it around, threw it on the ground, and was shocked, shocked, that the hornets stung her. And I'm half hoping Saresh gets possessed by the Emperor, takes some super doom walker, and is a great boss fight. Edited July 30, 2015 by Sangiban Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Diviciacus Posted July 30, 2015 Share Posted July 30, 2015 I hate to say it but Theron did mess up pretty bad on Ziost. However, I feel it's more of a domino affect than him just sending in the Sixth Line blindly. He believed.... Kovach was his agent on this inside, and as Xonell said, went according to the information given. He sent the Sixth Line, screwed up, knew it, tried to fix it. We also have Saresh, and infinite stupidity, to go along with this as well. Additional Republic forces would not have been on Ziost if it wasn't for her. Their blood is in her hands, not Theron's. Theron's real screw up was that after the Sixth Line got MC'd, he went in himself instead of contacting the player. Also, I'm curious; does Xonell have me ignored? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Xonell Posted July 30, 2015 Share Posted July 30, 2015 Theron's real screw up was that after the Sixth Line got MC'd, he went in himself instead of contacting the player. Yup. Again with his One Man Team philosophy. Also, I'm curious; does Xonell have me ignored? No? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Amadahy Posted July 30, 2015 Share Posted July 30, 2015 Theron's real screw up was that after the Sixth Line got MC'd, he went in himself instead of contacting the player. Also, I'm curious; does Xonell have me ignored? Can't disagree with that. In my opinion, that was his big screw up of Ziost. Everything else, in my opinion, was the domino affect. The hornets nest analogy above is absolutely perfect to describe the Ziost situation. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Abvora Posted July 30, 2015 Share Posted July 30, 2015 (edited) -snip- If there was a way to Like posts, I'd Like this one. Theron's real screw up was that after the Sixth Line got MC'd, he went in himself instead of contacting the player. Also this. As soon as his team went missing the first thing he should have done was contact the PC--not even as backup, but just to tell them what he knows of the situation and that he needs to check it out. If he doesn't contact them in a few hours, go to the Senate. Rule number one of entering unknown territory: leave information with a trusted source. That way, should something happen to you, the people who undoubtedly come looking for you aren't going in blind. I blame Suresh for the bloodbath on Ziost more than Theron, as is. His first mistake was caused by a lack of intel--not his fault--and his second...I get the impression that he was trying to protect the PC by keeping them out of Ziost, which is misguided (they don't need protecting) but forgivable, to an extent. Suresh, meanwhile, had all the details but charged in anyway for revenge, knowing full well she was throwing away thousands of lives. That's much less forgivable. Edited July 30, 2015 by Abvora Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Amadahy Posted July 30, 2015 Share Posted July 30, 2015 Temporarily interrupting the "Who's fault is Ziost" discussion... When I saw this screenie I instantly edited it (lighting was horrible) because it's too perfect not to post! :cool: Where is Theron? Dat face!!! LOLOLOLOL!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nefla Posted July 30, 2015 Share Posted July 30, 2015 Interesting, thanks for clarifying. I thought it was a Sith for some reason. It would be kinda neat to have Theron rescue Imps and Lana rescue Pubs, but I'm guessing it's probably just Lana doing all the rescuing. I suppose Theron could have helped plan the rescue or something. But he might just come into the story later I guess. Yeah I thought it was a Sith too for some reason (maybe because of the DS choices?) it would be cool if Theron rescues imp characters in this case, maybe something like your character is imprisoned by the opposite faction and so Theron would have access to the Republic area and Lana would have access to the Imperial area (grasp all the straws!). Lana, I have nothing against you girl...but if you replace Theron in everything in the expansion, I'm not gonna lie...I'm probably gonna jack you up >.> Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Diviciacus Posted July 30, 2015 Share Posted July 30, 2015 Temporarily interrupting the "Who's fault is Ziost" discussion... When I saw this screenie I instantly edited it (lighting was horrible) because it's too perfect not to post! :cool: Where is Theron? Dat face!!! LOLOLOLOL!!! lol, nice! That's one thing that I don't like about my sentinel being Miraluka... no facial expressions. I may have to racechange. >.> Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Xonell Posted July 30, 2015 Share Posted July 30, 2015 (edited) Temporarily interrupting the "Who's fault is Ziost" discussion... When I saw this screenie I instantly edited it (lighting was horrible) because it's too perfect not to post! :cool: Where is Theron? Dat face!!! LOLOLOLOL!!! Perfect. That's a really pretty customization too. This reminds me - I really need fraps! Edited July 30, 2015 by Xonell Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Xonell Posted July 30, 2015 Share Posted July 30, 2015 (edited) I just realized something somewhat ironic or appropriate or however you want to interpret it: The only course of action that would have mitigated the damage on Ziost would have included Theron communicating with both of his parents, possibly at the same time. First, tell Satele, "Hey, I think Vitiate is on Ziost. As the most powerful / highest ranking Jedi, what do you recommend?" It's possible she would have come up with a similar plan. More than likely she would have gone in on her own, or contacted the PC. Second, warn Jace Malcom, Supreme Commander that, "Hey, remember how our enemy gets stronger every time people die around him? It's going to be really tempting to invade Ziost, but do you think you could keep troops away from there for now?" Edited July 30, 2015 by Xonell Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cindlehr Posted July 30, 2015 Share Posted July 30, 2015 Yeah Theron should have contacted several people. But I agree that he went in with what intel he had. Then heard something was wrong and was trying to check on his team. That's when you get the 'um...hi.....I'm having some problems.....' call. But yeah, Theron should have talked with multiple parties, but he was only going with what info he had. He thought it could be a quick run in, run out operation. He had no idea how bad it really was, or that is friend screwed him over. Def talking to both of his parents at the same time would have been really important, but I understand him not doing it as well. he does not have a good relationship with either one. maybe he did not feel like he could trust them? Maybe he was unsure of how they would respond to him, or especially to each other? (having divorced parents, I totally get this fear). I think he learned his lesson though. He says at the end that he realized he should not have waited to call you but did. He wouldn't make that mistake again. I'm not sure what to make of the weird swagger as he walks away because he does it if he kisses you or not. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cindlehr Posted July 30, 2015 Share Posted July 30, 2015 hehe yeah Consular is not so good with emotions either http://imgur.com/2JmGvO1 http://imgur.com/SDIiJiZ http://imgur.com/DArMwFg http://imgur.com/5pyFaZA Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ellyria Posted July 30, 2015 Share Posted July 30, 2015 (edited) Unlike in real-life, the player is always the one to make the first move in games. Would be very interesting to see what would happen if that suddenly wasn't the case. Did you play Dragon Age II? A guy hits on the player no matter what and the community had a meltdown. hehe yeah Consular is not so good with emotions either Yeah, no kidding! Having a Miraluka Consular is even worse! I'll tear this place to the ground with my emotionless voice! Perfect. That's a really pretty customization too. This reminds me - I really need fraps! I'm really cheap, I just use raptr because it's free. It's basically a huge gaming community like Xfire used to be. The pictures turn out pretty decent enough for me as well. Aw yeah. Mmhmm. Edited July 30, 2015 by Ellyria Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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