War Veteran? Chronological issues with new expansion!!!

[MatthewGoldens]

Hi guys

 

The Outlander, as BioWare says, is a veteran of the "Great Galactic War."

 

When does the Great Galactic War happen? According to almighty WookiePedia the Great Galactic War happened BEFORE the original class storylines - this GGW ended with the Treaty of Coruscant and the treaty of coruscant happens BEFORE our original class stories begin. The timeline is like this

 

Great galactic War > Treaty of Coruscant > Player storyline chapters 1 - 5 > These new empire kiddos and their daddy shows up and rekt everything

 

So if this "Outlander" is a veteran of the Great galactic War, that'd mean even before player storyline chapter 1, he was already a veteran. That makes no sense. The acolyte, or the slave (starting points of chapter 1 of the Warrior/Inquisitor) couldn't possibly have been a war veteran. Neither could most other classes at the start of chapter 1 - they have no abilities and knowledge and equipment that reflects "war veteran" stature.

 

This means I (and Wookiepedia) must be mistaken about when the Great Galactic War takes place. Someone halp please?

[Sangiban]

They undoubtedly mean a veteran of the resurgence in conflict around Act 2 or 3 in-game. The renewed conflict could be seen as a part of the Great Galactic War, just a later stage of it after a 10 year period of uneasy peace and skirmishing. Kinda like how the three Punic wars are grouped together as part of a larger conflict despite lasting over 118 years with many periods of uneasy peace between the two factions.

 

Besides, it's pretty clear that the Outlander is your character(s) at the time of Knights of the Fallen Empire. Whatever title they had before that (Wrath, Dark Lord, Voidhound, etc) will hopefully be referenced, but likely won't carry as much weight as it did before. Hence the more universal title.

Edited June 16, 2015 by Sangiban

[NUTMANIAC]

Or it could also include the war between the fallen empire and the Republic and empire

[Sangiban]

I really doubt that since:

1) The Eternal Empire showed up pretty much out of the blue, and their attacks seem to have quickly driven the reigning superpowers to re-entrench with little time or resources for major offensives. Not much time to become a veteran if the conflict didn't last very long.

2) The term "Great Galactic War" has been specifically used to refer to the war that is between the Sith Empire and Galactic Republic of this time period that started with the Empire's return; and is almost certainly used for the renewed conflict that takes place in-game.

Edited June 16, 2015 by Sangiban

[MatthewGoldens]

They undoubtedly mean a veteran of the resurgence in conflict around Act 2 or 3 in-game. The renewed conflict could be seen as a part of the Great Galactic War, just a later stage of it after a 10 year period of uneasy peace and skirmishing. Kinda like how the three Punic wars are grouped together as part of a larger conflict despite lasting over 118 years with many periods of uneasy peace between the two factions.

 

Besides, it's pretty clear that the Outlander is your character(s) at the time of Knights of the Fallen Empire. Whatever title they had before that (Wrath, Dark Lord, Voidhound, etc) will hopefully be referenced, but likely won't carry as much weight as it did before. Hence the more universal title.

 

Ayyyy wait up, when did this resurgence in conflict occur? Also character storylines end at different times - for instance, Bounty Hunter chapter 3 ends BEFORE knight chapter 3 because knight chapter 3 sees a new supreme chancellor as it was.

 

Was never aware there was a resurgence. I thought the whole time it was empire + republic kinda teaming up in an uneasy alliance to get rid of huge-*** external threats like Revan and what have you.

[Flightsaber]

It could also be the way that historians choose to chronicle it vs. the way that people living in that time refered to it.

 

A couple examples:

"The War to End All Wars" - One of many terms for World War 1 at the time. There was certainly no reason to call it World War 1 until World War 2 happened.

"The American Experience" "The Revolutionary War" - America's fight for independence, still referred to differently in the US and the UK based on differing opinions of the outcome (military victory vs. economic decision to not engage until after Napoleon was dealt with.)

 

Perhaps people living at the in-game time view the conflict between the Sith Empire and the Galactic Republic as still ongoing after the treaty of Coruscant, since both still exist and neither side has 'won'.

Since history will remember both sides as losing, the war will eventually be dated as ending at the treaty of Coruscant after the sacking of Coruscant denoted a clear victor, with subsequent battles either given a more minor name or considered skirmishes rather than a war due to the end result: a third party entering the war and winning.

I would argue the Cartel's entrance and defeat by Republic and Imperial forces might constitute another denotation in the distant future, as a separate conflict.

Edited June 16, 2015 by Flightsaber

[MatthewGoldens]

That's fine and all I guess, but WHICH war were my characters great veterans of?

 

When were my characters being great veterans of these wars?

 

In present gameplay time, or in the non-gameplay sometime in between the game's present state up until the moment we get frozen in carbonite?

[Sangiban]

Well if they took part at all in almost literally all the content from Illum-Yavin IV, your character participated in the resurgence of the war. It's a bit unclear if the war heats up around Act 2 or 3, but by the end (and arguably start) of Corellia, it's definitely getting into full swing again. Edited June 16, 2015 by Sangiban

[BrianDavion]

yup, corellia itself was a BLOODBATH. the Empire lost a full 10% of it's forces on that world alone. and the conflict continued, on Illum, Kuat (GSF as well as the flashpoint, clearly Kuat is a long duration conflict. likely a stalemate with both sides feeding troops into the meat grinder) Tython and Korriban, CZ, Rishi (until you intervene those fleets where gonna crush one another) so yes, your character by level 60 is a war vet

[Darkelefantos]

Ayyyy wait up, when did this resurgence in conflict occur? Also character storylines end at different times - for instance, Bounty Hunter chapter 3 ends BEFORE knight chapter 3 because knight chapter 3 sees a new supreme chancellor as it was.

 

Was never aware there was a resurgence. I thought the whole time it was empire + republic kinda teaming up in an uneasy alliance to get rid of huge-*** external threats like Revan and what have you.

Past act 2 Republic and Empire basically re-entered full on active war, the Battle of Corellia was massive, costing the Empire 10% of it's military force. Then they started a Battle for Ilum but that was cut short by one Darth Malgus. And throughout the years, they continued. When you do the Makeb Imperial story, Marr informs you that he lost 3 systems trying to bide time for your operations on Makeb. The Republic and Empire invade Korriban and Tython, respectively. Over Rishi, the Imperial and Republic fleets start a massive battle that only ends after your interference. The team-up on Yavin isn't Empire + Republic, it's Marr's people and Satele's people specifically.

 

It's just that the player characters take part in only select conflicts and completely miss out on other things that may happen throughout the galaxy.

[Miyran]

Ayyyy wait up, when did this resurgence in conflict occur? Also character storylines end at different times - for instance, Bounty Hunter chapter 3 ends BEFORE knight chapter 3 because knight chapter 3 sees a new supreme chancellor as it was.

 

Was never aware there was a resurgence. I thought the whole time it was empire + republic kinda teaming up in an uneasy alliance to get rid of huge-*** external threats like Revan and what have you.

 

What do you think all the fighting on Correllia was about? Or the Sith retaking of Taris? It was the re-ignition of the war.

[MatthewGoldens]

Past act 2 Republic and Empire basically re-entered full on active war, the Battle of Corellia was massive, costing the Empire 10% of it's military force. Then they started a Battle for Ilum but that was cut short by one Darth Malgus. And throughout the years, they continued. When you do the Makeb Imperial story, Marr informs you that he lost 3 systems trying to bide time for your operations on Makeb. The Republic and Empire invade Korriban and Tython, respectively. Over Rishi, the Imperial and Republic fleets start a massive battle that only ends after your interference. The team-up on Yavin isn't Empire + Republic, it's Marr's people and Satele's people specifically.

 

It's just that the player characters take part in only select conflicts and completely miss out on other things that may happen throughout the galaxy.

 

Ahh, uhm, okay. So I'm gonna assume after Revan is good and gone, Imps and Pubs go back to killing each other like the good ol' days until Eternal Empire comes along?

 

Okay fair enough. One wonders why the Eternal Empire is opposed to the Bona Fide Empire though. If they're all into eveeeeyulllll then why not the Eternal Emperor a)rekt the Dark Council, take over the Empire and carry on or b)Ally with the Sith Empire?

[MatthewGoldens]

What do you think all the fighting on Correllia was about? Or the Sith retaking of Taris? It was the re-ignition of the war.

 

Haha that would've been my bad as I blitzed through Corellia and didn't pay much attention to the fact that the fighting had resumed.

[Ramalina]

Worth keeping in mind that at the time point of the treaty of Coruscant the Republic is on the brink of collapse and military defeat, and only gets a breather because the Empire made some rather foolish overextensions and can't keep up the momentum of their victories.

 

Then the player stories happen.

 

By the time Saresh is asking the Republic characters to check out Makeb Marr is telling Imperial characters that that if they can't pull off some sort of miraculous save the Empire will likely be defeated for good in the next 6 months or so.

 

That change of situation was not a result of Saresh and Marr going out for tea and deciding that they like each other and that relations should improve.

 

It was a product of Sith infighting and a Republic supreme chancellor who is ruthless, motivated, skilled at rallying political and popular support, willing to dump a lot of economic resources into the military, and a bit vengeful to boot.

 

Saresh is not a nice person when it comes to the Empire, in the case of Ziost she's not horrified at the genocide, she's annoyed at the loss of resources and the distraction of dealing with Jedi/Sith mystical nonsense when the time of the Republic aligned characters and NPCs would have been better spent kicking the asses of the remnants of the Empire under her direct personal supervision.

 

So yeah, there has been a war between the Empire and Republic, and it is explicitly stated that the war has restarted in about the beginning of chapter 3 of the Imperial class storylines, which mostly seem to take place sometime before the bulk of the Republic class storylines.

 

Malgus, Hutts, Dread Masters, and Revan are minor distractions that have been swatted down by the characters chiefly because they've been distractions that are interfering with the progress of the "real" war.

 

So where we are now is that the Empire is a fraction of what it was at its peak, though finally under competent leadership.

 

The Republic is the galactic class power that its size would suggest, and is lead by someone who has gotten the Republic war machine running in good order and is intent on using that war machine to grind the Empire into dust and then split the dust into sub-atomic particles.

 

So the surprise appearance of an "Eternal" empire that no one has ever heard of, that goes on to take down both the remnants of the Sith Empire and the resurgent Republic seems improbable on the face of things.

 

On the other hand, the Sith never lack for the potential of disastrous infighting and once the Empire declines below a certain point Saresh has the sort of hubris and single minded determination to potentially cause catastrophic self inflicted wounds to the Republic.

 

Basically our characters need to be frozen in carbonite for long enough for the NPC leaders to make a series of massive screw-ups and for some ambitious nobodies to take advantage of that to scoop up a bunch of systems that are for all practical intents and purposes undefended.

 

Of course for my smuggler, I'd sort of prefer relativistic time dilation during the run-up to a hyperspace jump (seriously, sometimes I think I need to freeze Risha in carbonite to stop her from making unauthorized modifications to critical systems on my freighter), but I guess if you go that route it's a bit too easy to wind up in orbit over Endor wondering what all the big pieces of ship debris are from.

[Miyran]

Ahh, uhm, okay. So I'm gonna assume after Revan is good and gone, Imps and Pubs go back to killing each other like the good ol' days until Eternal Empire comes along?

 

Okay fair enough. One wonders why the Eternal Empire is opposed to the Bona Fide Empire though. If they're all into eveeeeyulllll then why not the Eternal Emperor a)rekt the Dark Council, take over the Empire and carry on or b)Ally with the Sith Empire?

 

"Evil is a point of view." Conquerors don't care if your philosophies are different if they're vastly superior to you.

[Celise]

when people nick name epochs in time as the stone age or bronze age or iron age and many other complicated silly science names with age on the end, did they at any point realize that bronze was never pushed out of use? iron ever never pushed out of use? some medival attitudes have still not be pushed out of use? feudalism is still around, tribes still using wood and stone. these ages have not ended in that sense. so reliably one can state that the great galactic war has never ended so long as there has been a "great" galactic conflict every once in a while.

 

besides you are going from wiki, that wiki contains the words "legends" meaning non canon. hard to use as a reference anyway until swtor is made canon, in that case you may have a point strict from epoch ages.

Edited June 16, 2015 by Celise

[Caylen]

I always thought that our heroes fought in the Great Galactic War because we are all treating the current conflict as a continuation of the Great Galactic War, which took a break during the Treaty of Coruscant. After the Treaty was broken, we continued the Great Galactic War; we didn't start a new war.

 

It's all just what you call it. It seems that BioWare's Star Wars history nerds have decided that our heroes joined the Great Galactic War part-way through.

[MatthewGoldens]

Worth keeping in mind that at the time point of the treaty of Coruscant the Republic is on the brink of collapse and military defeat, and only gets a breather because the Empire made some rather foolish overextensions and can't keep up the momentum of their victories.

 

Then the player stories happen.

 

By the time Saresh is asking the Republic characters to check out Makeb Marr is telling Imperial characters that that if they can't pull off some sort of miraculous save the Empire will likely be defeated for good in the next 6 months or so.

 

That change of situation was not a result of Saresh and Marr going out for tea and deciding that they like each other and that relations should improve.

 

It was a product of Sith infighting and a Republic supreme chancellor who is ruthless, motivated, skilled at rallying political and popular support, willing to dump a lot of economic resources into the military, and a bit vengeful to boot.

 

Saresh is not a nice person when it comes to the Empire, in the case of Ziost she's not horrified at the genocide, she's annoyed at the loss of resources and the distraction of dealing with Jedi/Sith mystical nonsense when the time of the Republic aligned characters and NPCs would have been better spent kicking the asses of the remnants of the Empire under her direct personal supervision.

 

So yeah, there has been a war between the Empire and Republic, and it is explicitly stated that the war has restarted in about the beginning of chapter 3 of the Imperial class storylines, which mostly seem to take place sometime before the bulk of the Republic class storylines.

 

Malgus, Hutts, Dread Masters, and Revan are minor distractions that have been swatted down by the characters chiefly because they've been distractions that are interfering with the progress of the "real" war.

 

So where we are now is that the Empire is a fraction of what it was at its peak, though finally under competent leadership.

 

The Republic is the galactic class power that its size would suggest, and is lead by someone who has gotten the Republic war machine running in good order and is intent on using that war machine to grind the Empire into dust and then split the dust into sub-atomic particles.

 

So the surprise appearance of an "Eternal" empire that no one has ever heard of, that goes on to take down both the remnants of the Sith Empire and the resurgent Republic seems improbable on the face of things.

 

On the other hand, the Sith never lack for the potential of disastrous infighting and once the Empire declines below a certain point Saresh has the sort of hubris and single minded determination to potentially cause catastrophic self inflicted wounds to the Republic.

 

Basically our characters need to be frozen in carbonite for long enough for the NPC leaders to make a series of massive screw-ups and for some ambitious nobodies to take advantage of that to scoop up a bunch of systems that are for all practical intents and purposes undefended.

 

Of course for my smuggler, I'd sort of prefer relativistic time dilation during the run-up to a hyperspace jump (seriously, sometimes I think I need to freeze Risha in carbonite to stop her from making unauthorized modifications to critical systems on my freighter), but I guess if you go that route it's a bit too easy to wind up in orbit over Endor wondering what all the big pieces of ship debris are from.

 

Thank you, this was very much the explanation I wanted. Its just that as a player character all the other stuffsies I was "swatting out" felt like the bulk of what was going on, so I didn't quite get the sense of there being a war and me being a veteran of it.

 

I spend way too much time in cantinas RPing to realistically be a war vet, which is the odd thing.

[Darth_Krushya]

I need to ask a few somewhat unrelated questions, because I don't want to start a new thread that may go unanswered.

 

Can we start a character from level 1/chapter 1 and bring him up to level 60 then enter him into this new expansion?

 

I read that we will be given the option to start a character at level 60. Can it be one of our current characters or can I create a brand new character that will start out at 60?

 

Thank you.

[MatthewGoldens]

I need to ask a few somewhat unrelated questions, because I don't want to start a new thread that may go unanswered.

 

Can we start a character from level 1/chapter 1 and bring him up to level 60 then enter him into this new expansion?

 

I read that we will be given the option to start a character at level 60. Can it be one of our current characters or can I create a brand new character that will start out at 60?

 

Thank you.

 

From what I know, all your present toons won't go anywhere.

I don't think they'll let you bump up a presently low-level character to 60 instantly. They'll most likely have 12x xp boosts and whatnot to allow say a level 25 character on Tattooine to play through the original bits.

 

 

Given that they'll be shifting the game years forward, there might be some issues to contend with when it comes to allowing you to start a toon from chapter 1. That having been said, they'll probably find some way to reconcile those issues, so original SWTOR class story gameplay won't be eradicated. They spent 200 mil on the original game as it was during launch, they won't scrap the first 3 chapters that easily. It makes no business sense. If you wish to level a toon from the very beginning (i.e. the noobie acolyte on korriban who eventually became the Wrath) or whatever, you'll get to.

[Darth_Krushya]

Okay. Thank you for your response. I am sorry if I did not ask more clearly. Please forgive me.

 

I guess what I'm trying to ask is: if the War Veteran's saga has it's own self contained story? It does have numbered chapters. Can I start a brand new character at level 1 and chapter 1 within this expansion or saga? Do I have to use a finished character at level 60 from the previous ones? Will the character I use still be part of his legacy? Can I still mail over money and items to him?

Edited June 19, 2015 by Darth_Krushya
more information for clarity

[Balinus]

The one thing i ' ve been hearing is that we r goi nto be frozen i ncarbonite? Ok, i got it that we r goin to be vets of the war, that is fine the 8 classes r all vets of the war. From what i see, the war will end because this new empire will destroy the imps and pubs [ like it is said at the character Lana Beniko ] . Ok i got that, what i dont understand is that our toon will be frozen in cabonite? WHY?

[Argonloris]

Okay. Thank you for your response. I am sorry if I did not ask more clearly. Please forgive me.

 

I guess what I'm trying to ask is: if the War Veteran's saga has it's own self contained story? It does have numbered chapters. Can I start a brand new character at level 1 and chapter 1 within this expansion or saga? Do I have to use a finished character at level 60 from the previous ones? Will the character I use still be part of his legacy? Can I still mail over money and items to him?

 

You can start a level 1 character as you normally would and the story that was in place before will still happen. There will most likely be a questline that either starts during the first chapter or is part of the 3.--- patches between now and october that covers what happens to the player to cause the timeskip. Then you enter the new story.

[Yermog]

I need to ask a few somewhat unrelated questions, because I don't want to start a new thread that may go unanswered.

 

Can we start a character from level 1/chapter 1 and bring him up to level 60 then enter him into this new expansion?

 

I read that we will be given the option to start a character at level 60. Can it be one of our current characters or can I create a brand new character that will start out at 60?

 

Thank you.

The devs have stated that it will be possible to make a character completely from scratch in any chosen class, and they will automatically be level 60 IF YOU SO CHOOSE so that you can immediately take place in the new expansion without having to level all the way up to 60, which could take quite a while. I. however, plan to level up all my toons the old fashioned way until the 12xp boost is over with. I feel that if you haven't played through the main storylines for the characters, you'll probably miss out on some of the things that would bring the expansion together for you.

 

It should be noted, however, that doing the old fashioned way will give you perks that you won't have if you just jump in at 60. They've said that the affection and skills you build with your companions, and whether or not you're married or in a relationship, will be noted in the new game, which will give it more back story I think. I'm not sure how it'll be handled if you just jump right in.

[Yermog]

Basically our characters need to be frozen in carbonite for long enough for the NPC leaders to make a series of massive screw-ups and for some ambitious nobodies to take advantage of that to scoop up a bunch of systems that are for all practical intents and purposes undefended..

 

Yeah, that's mainly why I believe that you're only frozen for 3-5 years, because that's enough time for bad things to happen, but also short enough for you to come back and save the day. 10 years, as some have suggested, would be pointless as by then there would be nothing left of either army.

 

As least thats what I think. Having them frozen for a decade and then coming to save the day doesn't really make sense to me. Too many changes would have happened by then for the PC to make a significant impact, and likely the war would be long done with.

 

Plus, for most players, companions are a big thing and they don't want there to be a huge gap so that the companions have established themselves firmly elsewhere. Hell, the possible backlash alone from what could maybe happen to the romances would be enough to make any Dev balk. They'll probably play it safe and won't do anything too drastic as far as that's concerned.

 

(PS, sorry, double post, my mistake.)

Edited June 20, 2015 by Yermog