Let's talk about Strike Fighters

[tommmsunb]

Tomm to be fair, if you have 2 missile breaks and you get hit with a concussion 1: It was a Pike that hit you by exhausting your breaks with clusters well played both parties..... 2: you played wrong, or 3. They out played you pretty good dropping it at 200 meters thus hitting you before you could respond. Concussions with the length of their reload and lock time and damage do not seem designed for hitting targets with more then 1 Missile break, but that's ok cus that's what Clusters are for, Pikes have the unique ability to use clusters to exhaust the opponents missile break before swapping to hit them with the concussion, its the missile Strike using higher grade missiles on targets SHOULD be its job.

 

To emphasis what I am saying, and has been said more then once.

 

Conc lock time 2.7 Seconds (with upgrade), Reload time 6 seconds. Disto CD 20 Seconds, Barrel roll CD (longest Missile break engine) 20 Seconds.

 

Conc fire, missile break used.... 8.7 seconds later Conc Fire, CD used, 8.7 Seconds later (17.4 seconds in) conc fire, assuming no LoS at all it DOES manage to hit, with the amount of LoS just doing so 2.6 seconds into the missiles lock time once (or 1.5-2 seconds into the missile lock 2 to 3 times like most are able to do) makes it not land long enough to refresh your CD's for missile breaks, Concs should never land on 2 missile break targets unless miss played, especially not on a scout. if you have a 15 second CD missile break using that one, followed by Disto, then followed by that break again gives you even more time, once again Concs should never land on a 2 missile break ship...especially not a scout, if the target can not strip the CD's with Clusters first.

 

But that's OK concs do to much burst damage to scouts as it is, if they reliably landed it would be to much, and they already have an optimal target in Strikes. Every ship that has Concs that I know of HAS a secondary they can choose against scouts... Clusters, or Seeker mines.

 

Again, I'm going to say to use your brain. Most scout pilots blow their dfield on first sign of danger and don't save it as a missile break. It's quite easy to force a pilot to use his engine ability too on any ship as well.

 

Hell for a long time I found it easier to kill a certain top tier ace pilot by making him kill himself on the environment than with lasers just because I recognized pretty early on under what circumstances he used his engine ability.

[tunewalker]

Again, I'm going to say to use your brain. Most scout pilots blow their dfield on first sign of danger and don't save it as a missile break. It's quite easy to force a pilot to use his engine ability too on any ship as well.

 

Hell for a long time I found it easier to kill a certain top tier ace pilot by making him kill himself on the environment than with lasers just because I recognized pretty early on under what circumstances he used his engine ability.

 

Refer to the top.

 

its one of the three.

 

Did the scout in this scenario blow his Disto to early and then not seek the appropriate cover for the appropriate amount of time? yep that would be number 2... miss play thanks for playing.

Edited May 31, 2015 by tunewalker

[tommmsunb]

Refer to the top.

 

its one of the three.

 

Did the scout in this scenario blow his Disto to early... yep that would be number 2... miss play thanks for playing.

 

 

Actually it's not a misplay because if he didn't he'd die to lasers. It's called playing the pressure points. It's the same as attacking an off-node to split players from the main battle node.

 

 

When I say a player is bad because they respond poorly under pressure this is the kind of stuff that I'm referring to.

Edited May 31, 2015 by tommmsunb

[tunewalker]

Actually it's not a misplay because if he didn't he'd die to lasers. It's called playing the pressure points. It's the same as attacking an off-node to split players from the main battle node.

 

He then followed by not seeking the appropirate shelter using the second missile break. Also if he had USED his engine maneuver instead of his Disto the movement from the engine often times takes you out of laser range while preventing locks for 3 seconds, its a miss play. (lock prevention for 3 seconds + 2.7 lock time +6 seconds reload + 2.7 Lock on = 14.4 seconds... LOS needed .6 seconds for most engines, 5.6 seconds for Barrel, this can be within in player reaction time for relocking missiles for 1 for the other it does require more LoSing, but this is a scout more maneuverable then a Strike... shouldnt be an issue, in addition to barrel roll putting the scout potentially out of Conc missile range for LONGER then the 3 seconds "cant be locked" time)

Edited May 31, 2015 by tunewalker

[CommanderKiko]

Keep in mind that without any form of evasion, some shots are going to miss anyways due to tracking pen and accuracy. Someone feel free to do the math on it and im sure it will come up to ~1/10 shots missing usually through no fault of the pilot without evade coming into play, so in other words "sitting still." Then add lightweight, that's ~2/10 shots missed through no fault of the pilot. "sitting still." Then TT, that takes it up to 3/10. "Sitting still" Then add DF and it's, what, over 1/4 almost 1/3rd boost to evade? "Sitting still." and you may start to get the picture as to why people think DF is OP with its lock break on super fast, bursty ships.

 

Then keep in mind that with strikers, every shot matters lest you run out of energy, due to high lock times. And not everyone is playing on a high end machine with a precision mouse, meaning that there will be pilot error adding to missed shots for most people. Also, people can DPS while being all but invulnerable to everything via evadestacking with cooldowns. In fact, that seems to be the whole point behind DF/TT combos... Then also, you can lock break, what, every 6 seconds or so with DF/retros? I mean, my math may be wrong but that's the impression I get.

 

An extreme analogue to this would be a gunslinger/sniper being able to pop dodge every 12 seconds, and hightail it adding dodge as a passive for 3 seconds with a 12 second cooldown ----> While still being able to drop their normal or higher than normal DPS then wondering why no one played, say, commandos.

 

Getting dog-piled and focused should suck, it shouldn't be tolerable due to broken combos. If getting focused is tolerable, that should tell you that you are using a broken combo and it isn't your skill keeping you alive. Just throwing that out there.

[tommmsunb]

He then followed by not seeking the appropirate shelter using the second missile break. Also if he had USED his engine maneuver instead of his Disto the movement from the engine often times takes you out of laser range while preventing locks for 3 seconds, its a miss play.

 

It doesn't PREVENT locks. It just breaks one lock. You really don't understand how that component works.

There is no PREVENTION on the skill.

[tunewalker]

It doesn't PREVENT locks. It just breaks one lock. You really don't understand how that component works.

There is no PREVENTION on the skill.

 

Please re-read the sentence above and come back. I said he MISS played by using Disto FIRST instead of ENGINE maneuver first. If you know YOUR skills you will know that ENGINE maneuvers prevent lock ons for 3 seconds in addition to moving the ship radically and increasing Evasion by 24%, by using Disto FIRST the player miss played. Please re-read come back again.

 

 

Edit: we really should take this some where else, its not condusive to this topic I believe.

Edited May 31, 2015 by tunewalker

[zaskar]

 

You also opened with "I really feel strike fighters are fine the way they are". Why do you feel this way? You don't fly a strike fighter in serious fights, so you can't really believe that. You, personally, do not fly strikes of any sort, in serious games.

 

And the last time you flew with me was? Sorry All Father, but I think you've lost your other eye, the things in reality are not what you see.

...and your reasoning appears to be that every other ship is better. How do you come to the conclusion that, if all the ships are better than strikes, and no one plays strikes, that all the other ships need to become less powerful, less fun, and generally as crappy as strikes, so that strikes will be, by comparison, less crap?

 

Bombers can only survive if they get to a safe spot. If you nerf them so badly that they can't do anything even there, then their one job is gone. Scouts only survive because of their evasion. It could well be too powerful, but not by nearly as much as strikes fall short of being good.

 

You assume the meta needs to stay the same to still be fun.

 

 

We get our first dev post in a year or something, and you want to control how they spend their time? No, they don't need to do anything BEFORE fixing balance. It's GLORIOUS that they are here dude. And since you probably didn't read the thread, we did bring up the broken components. But I guess we should have implied that they should be a priority interrupt or something for them.

 

 

Passive aggressive much? I read, i was re-itterating my opinion, you know, other people besides you, all father, are allowed to have them.

 

On the broken components (which, again, have been brought up already in this thread):

 

Sab Probe- The bug is the "snare talent" (tier 5 left). When selected, the new debuff seems to replace or negate the other one, instead of stacking next to it. This means that the actual effects of the move (can't maneuver, can't engine or whatever) all go away. This bug happened late spring 2014 (pretty sure).

 

EMP field- The bug is that the tooltip and the radius do not match. The tooltip and radius used to the smaller value, then they were buffed (early spring 2014 I think). The "bugpatch" in summer 2014 reverted the radius (nerfed it, likely accidentally), but left the tooltip with the buffed value.

 

EMP Missle- I don't think this missile is bugged in any way. It is very weak, but it does appear to do exactly what it says. The damage dealt by it is halved against ships, and the tooltip states this. It deals 335 damage to drones and mines, and half damage to ships. Is there another problem with this weapon?

 

Thermite Torpedo- I don't report this as a bug because I can't prove it's a bug. But you are correct to bring it up, because it might be. It would be good if a tester looked into the damage done, because it seems under some situations it does less per tick than implied, but again, normally it behaves as advertised. The hidden possible maybe bug is that it seems to lose lock much more readily than proton- is it possibly not respecting an upgrade talent or crewmember skill on the targeting arc? This normally happens when an enemy is moving fast enough that you lose tracking, but the important thing is, it feels different than proton.

 

Plasma Railgun- I know you think the damage is bugged, but I'm pretty sure it does the right thing. I think Plasma's only real bug is the tooltip truncation- many tooltips were broken in the "bugpatch" last summer, anything with a duration.

 

Ion Missle- Ion Missile does what it says, but yes, it's probably a bug, because the nerf happened with no communication, and during the "bugpatch".

 

Interdiction everything- These seem to be working again. I'm not sure when they got fixed, to be honest. I'm not totally 100% sure on interdiction drive snare, but interdiction drone works, ion snare works, interdiction mine works, for sure.

 

Here is the #1 reason why broken systems need to be fixed before trying to balance anything. Humans see patterns that are not there all the time. Humans assume much, you're the perfect example of this as you've assumed I don't fly strikes when looking at my stats, I've flown more in them than any other class. The only way to be able to balance a red-headed step child in a game that is human on human is to have strong data. When people see patterns that don't exist or don't use the tools they have because of something they assume, then the data becomes skewed and not reliable.

 

THE DATA BIOWARE HAS COLLECTED SINCE 2.7 IS ALL FLAWED, WORTHLESS

 

Fix the bugs, let the community know what was done, for example that an interdiction snare is actually six seconds not what we think is three (kinda worthless). Let the community reset their expectations and then collect data. The meta will shift some, it's something humans do.

[RatPoison]

I'll make one more stab at this.

 

First, the goal, and the request for discussion is how to improve strikes... not how to nerf and tweak other parts of the game.

 

Next. let's be honest with ourselves... complicated, over-built, and less than simple tweaks to strikes is a pipe dream at this point. Whether those tweaks be to specific components or the stock stats of the ship... making up entirely new things for implementation is wishful thinking given the very evident and apparent lack of resources/time for a very lightly used part of the game.

 

Simple suggestions from a guy that has logged more than a handful of matches are as follows:

 

Strikes have a big frame... and lack mobility, but a big frame should be able to have nice big engines. Since mobility is a repetitive complaint, lets buff strike engines. Let's beef up their total engine pool, and shorten the regen time on them while we're at. Boom, simple tweak with several benefits to address several problems in the strikes performance against the most commonly used ships.

 

And since strikes have a big frame... lets not stop at engines. I don't see the sense in giving strikes more evasion, or to slap on distortion field (albeit, having distortion field is a simple solution that I wouldn't be opposed to if it came to fruition)... but as a simple alternative solution, buff the strike's shields. Increase the total pool, and decrease the regen time. Boom... another simple solution.

 

Want something else? Buff torpedoes. When one proton torpedo connects with any ship... its devastating. Unfortunately a long lock on time, small firing arc, slow speed, and long reload time make it ineffective to use against a scout with two missile breaks. If I were going to come up with one long shot, stupid idea that would buff torpedoes, it would be to either modify the torpedo tree to include a quick reload on a cooldown, ie. every minute (or some time duration), there is no cooldown for reload following the release of the torpedo. Now munch on that idea and enjoy the silliness of a double torpedo build gunship or T2 strike. Similar mechanics exist in the ground game, so I doubt it would be difficult to throw something of the sort into GSF. Adding in a new component for strikes and maybe the T2 gunship that would speed up reload times would also work.

 

...

 

Simple solutions... to buff strikes... not to nerf and tinker with other ships, etc.

[havokhead]

After reading this thread I think the general consensus of the GSF community is that yes, we want strikes enhanced and to become a viable, more competitive option but not at the cost of other ships or the overall gameplay that everyone has become used to over the past year or so. That's fair and understandable but don't kid yourselves because buffed strike fighters will change the game like it or not.

 

Personally, I think that the solution for most of strike fighters' problems are in-game but need some re-arrangement and tweaking.

-Offensively-

The T1 Strike is regarded as the "laser fighter" so it should have the best lasers. Adding BLCs to bolster its short-range fighting would help a lot. It would compliment HLCs well and give the T1 good medium to close range fighting. It would also pair well with ion cannons, yes at close range this pair would pack quite a punch but the fighter would have to close to short range to be effective. Ions/BLCs & clusters would be quite the deadly trio in close but I believe that's how it should be.

 

The T2 Strike suffers from not so much dealing damage but hitting to apply that damage. Protons hurt when they hit, clusters hurt when they hit but with maneuverability and evasion, the hits are rare. One solution could be to create a new pilot who's passives could be increase target reticule size and reduce missile lock-on time by X%, his piloting ability could be "cancel next missile break within 10 seconds" or something to that effect. This buffs basically only the T2 strike because no other ship would take that pilot except maybe a double missile spamming T2 gunship which could use the love too. This way missiles don't need an across the board buff which would in turn also buff other ships that are already fine. I would also add Rocket Pods to the T2 strike arsenal, it could use an "ambush" mode of damage that hits hard with no warning. Gunships get ambush attacks with slug rail guns and scouts get it with rocket pods and Laser Cannons/BLCs complimented by Targeting Telemetry. Rocket Pods would also compliment clusters well as you'd open with rockets but then switch to clusters to finish them off as they run away. I'd also add Interdiction Missile to the mix to give T2 pilots other options perhaps to use lasers more. I'd scrap Ion Missile and add some of its attributes to Interdiction such as shield stripping thus really rewarding a missile strike with a much greater chance of closing in for a kill. To me protons and thermites are fine as is if they could get the "Missile Pilot" I mentioned above to aid them. Personally, I think there is room in this game for applying a high risk/high reward mechanic such as thermite & proton torpedoes.

 

T3 Strikes are meant as support-fighters so I can't see them needing a big offensive buff other than HLCs. HLCs would help T3 handle satellites and bombers better. Combat Command & Slicing should have ranges buffed to increase usefulness and make other support roles more of an option.

 

I'll post more later of mobility & survivability for SFs.

[Ramalina]

I sincerely doubt you know what level to which the focus is like Ramalina if you still have that opinion. Also it's not like "I can just sit still and DPS." that really shows me that you have no semblance of a clue of what you're talking about. I've had games where I've gone 34/19 because of being focussed absurdly by the entire enemy team and the only reason I'm able to stay alive for longer than 10 seconds is the second missile break. This is why I think people who put stock in their KDR are generally idiots because they really don't know what its like to be considered a threat until somebody puts you through that.

 

You really offended me by assuming that I fly that way and I lost a lot of respect for you. I most certainly do search for cover even when dfield is up. All dfield is for me is a way to dodge missiles because of the sheer enormous output you have coming in at you from drones or cluster spam.

 

Side-note, if you're complaining about not being able to hit with concussion missiles even on scouts with 2 missile breaks I've got some words for you.

 

USE YOUR BRAIN DON'T JUST GO ON AUTO-PILOT AND ASSUME ITS GOING TO HIT.

 

 

Good lord you've made me angry Ramalina, when I'm back from Japan I'm only going to focus you and you're going to understand where I'm coming from. Even if it means losing games.

 

 

A gameplay question I'm seriously interested in, not just raging against DF: do you think that in that sort of insane focus pressure game that your amount of offensive uptime and/or output would have been any different with a Nemarus style running build if you were aiming to have the same level of survivability? What if any do you think the performance tradeoffs that you have to pay in order to get the good aspects of DF are, how big are they, and how much of an impact do those tradeoffs have on your gameplay? What about the tradeoffs from just swapping the shield component to something else? If DF gives a huge defensive benefit, optionally a significant offensive benefit (in "safe" time on target), then it should have some sort of offsetting tradeoff somewhere that actually matters. Where's the tradeoff?

 

Incidentally, I have seen you fly, and if the whole enemy team isn't after you, you do not use it in what I'd call a purely defensive manner, at least not unless you've changed style quite a bit. Superbly well, but not purely defensively (though we may have different ideas of what constitutes defensive vs offensive uses, to me using DF to stay on a target or get to a target without breaking off to LOS is just as much an offensive use as a defensive use, the same for jousting).

 

Speaking of which, if it gets you to try to queue in games with me, while I normally dislike giving offense to people I respect, well, would you mind terribly giving me a list of subjects that irritate you enough in forum posts to make you want to queue to destroy people in GSF?

 

Actually the irritation is probably not really required. If I know where you're queuing I'll pop by if I can. At this point I think I've already had enough boring GSF games to last a lifetime, increasing the proportion of interesting ones is the best GSF optimization I can think of.

 

Lately the queue times have been terrible and the match quality has been worse. To the extent that I'm available for receiving GSF *** kickings during the growing season it tends to be 10 pm -11 pm Sat, 10 pm - 1 am Sun, and some weeks 10 pm -1 am Mon Eastern daylight time . Around 4-6 am Sun and Mon could also potentially work, if a server with an active queue could be found. I generally start on Jung Ma for non-GSF reasons, but I pretty much have to server hop to get games at all, so let me know where if you still feel inclined to do this when you get back.

Games with or against you are never anything short of excellent.

 

 

Getting dog-piled and focused should suck, it shouldn't be tolerable due to broken combos. If getting focused is tolerable, that should tell you that you are using a broken combo and it isn't your skill keeping you alive. Just throwing that out there.

 

While I'd argue that getting dogpiled in a strike, scout, gunship, and bomber ought to all suck roughly the same amount though in very different fashions (and the same for shield component selection), no one who has flown against Tommm can honestly say he needs any sort of gear crutches to do well. He can take a stock Starguard to levels of performance that even pretty good pilots would fail to reach in a mastered T2 scout. In case you missed it, he was citing a game where he got 34 kills and 19 deaths as a difficult and relatively unproductive one.

 

Tommm's piloting is routinely amazingly good, and I don't blame him for going with what he considers to be the optimal build for his preferred ship and playstyle. Part of GSF is gearing choice, and selecting ship builds for specific desired traits is part of good play. What I don't like are the developer choices that make some ships on the whole much more useful and powerful than other ships, and I feel that the second break on DF, on the ship types that are currently live in GSF, is such a developer choice.

[SeCKSEgai]

This is why you are bad and your opinion should mean nothing.

 

Seems like troll bait but I'll bite.

 

Saying I only take my strike fighter out in easy matches immediately makes me bad how? It seems pretty dumb to deem that bad when the ENTIRE THREAD is regarding how strike fighters are lacking.

 

Regardless, bad or not - players of varying skill levels offer valid opinions in this thread when its in regard to GSF. Sometimes its a skill issue, sometimes there's a learning curve, but if the player is participating they matter.

 

But seriously, who gets elitist over GSF? I've topped scoreboards, I don't go telling people they're lousy when they die repeatedly. I'm actually grateful just for it to pop half the time.

Edited May 31, 2015 by SeCKSEgai
fixed quote bracket

[idnewton]

Also on a side note when are we getting more game modes, I would really love to see an Assault type map (look at Unreal Tournament 2004 Mothership assault)

 

I'm sorry did you just reference Unreal Tournament? :hug: Luv u!

[Etrii]

Nerfing scouts would only lead to one thing. A big buff to gunships, and a medium buff seekers and missile drones.

 

Second missile m-break is esential to dodge a mine/missile on the way the entrenched GS

 

Removing it would buff bombers as well(thou it would buff not so good seekers a missile drone)

 

And even with all proposed bufffs Strike`s don`t have the base speed in chasis to be efective in GS hunting. Basicly a love tap from ion with slow talent makes strike`s almoest as dead in the watter as energy drain.

 

We need to muff strikes to match good classes, to have 4 good classes.

 

Not nerf everything to 4 bad classes

[tommmsunb]

Speaking of which, if it gets you to try to queue in games with me, while I normally dislike giving offense to people I respect, well, would you mind terribly giving me a list of subjects that irritate you enough in forum posts to make you want to queue to destroy people in GSF?

 

Actually the irritation is probably not really required. If I know where you're queuing I'll pop by if I can. At this point I think I've already had enough boring GSF games to last a lifetime, increasing the proportion of interesting ones is the best GSF optimization I can think of.

 

 

What pisses me off is that you know better essentially. You know that when I say it makes it bearable it doesn't mean that I'm not dying. You were around for when they broke the second missile break on dfield and you know how utterly unplayable it was if you didn't have a second missile break in serious matches. Obviously in the farm matches it's not a problem. I figure you need some reminding of how frustrating it can be. If you wanna know how it feels to have non-stop cluster spam as well as solid gunships attacking you, spend some time and get known on progenitor. That server's imp side is ruthless for solo players. Though I find the good players tend to fly together a little too much and only really Etrii switches for balance. Though I could be wrong and I mean no offense in this to majority of progenitor pilots. Except Rosy, I'll offend (her?) as much as possible.

 

As for not using it solely defensively a lot of the time defense time = offense time for me, killing a gunship is as much a defensive exercise as it is an offensive exercise for example.

 

As for it providing "safe time" I'd really say it doesn't due to gunships with wingman. In a perfect 1 v 1 situation it is still not even safe time. The people who treat it as safe time are generally the people who die the easiest. I'm going to use an example from recently that I don't think would mind if i mention it. I was fighting Drako when I had my broken hand and he thought he was safe because of the combination of my hand being broken and the dfield+TT he didn't put up RI though I don't believe, he flew very straight as a result of underestimating it and ate way too many quads/pods too the face and got super surprised by it. Usually he doesn't use it as safe-time from what I've seen but it was just that one time that caught both of our attention. I was in voice with him at the time and he was just saying "What?"

Edited May 31, 2015 by tommmsunb

[Etrii]

What pisses me off is that you know better essentially. You know that when I say it makes it bearable it doesn't mean that I'm not dying. You were around for when they broke the second missile break on dfield and you know how utterly unplayable it was if you didn't have a second missile break in serious matches. Obviously in the farm matches it's not a problem. I figure you need some reminding of how frustrating it can be. If you wanna know how it feels to have non-stop cluster spam as well as solid gunships attacking you, spend some time and get known on progenitor. That server's imp side is ruthless for solo players. Though I find the good players tend to fly together a little too much and only really Etrii switches for balance. Though I could be wrong and I mean no offense in this to majority of progenitor pilots. Except Rosy, I'll offend (her?) as much as possible.

 

As for not using it solely defensively a lot of the time defense time = offense time for me, killing a gunship is as much a defensive exercise as it is an offensive exercise for example.

 

As for it providing "safe time" I'd really say it doesn't due to gunships with wingman. In a perfect 1 v 1 situation it is still not even safe time. The people who treat it as safe time are generally the people who die the easiest. I'm going to use an example from recently that I don't think would mind if i mention it. I was fighting Drako when I had my broken hand and he thought he was safe because of the combination of my hand being broken and the dfield+TT he didn't put up RI though I don't believe, he flew very straight as a result of underestimating it and ate way too many quads/pods too the face and got super surprised by it. Usually he doesn't use it as safe-time from what I've seen but it was just that one time that caught both of our attention. I was in voice with him at the time and he was just saying "What?"

 

In farm matches a rapid laser t3 scout with shild projector is a deadly ship. Balancing around them leads only to one solution: Nerf good pilots, not nerf good ships.

 

Current meta is very fun, deep and intesting, without DF field you will not hurt gunships(well a bit) couse they use mostly Disto vs other gunships, and relly on a second missile break mostly while on the run. With less evasion on scouts, strikes would get shread.

 

Removing it will make serius dent in t1 scout play style as well, and no one will say that t1 scout is overpowered. so it would leave only a t3 scout with

 

Weaker disto, leads to GS safaty and strikes don`t have the presure ability, To long TTK, not enough base speed, and engine pool, not enough evasion to dodge resnable amout of rails.

 

Nerfing disto would lead to sniper fest.

 

"One rail to rule them all!"

 

Eliminating scouts from the equasion would also allow bypass as a co-pilot. 44%shild piercing. Thats 775 dmg per fully charged slug (with extra 10% upgrade). Whith means any GS could 2 shoot any strike WITHOUT USING ION

 

As for Prego, most of what you saw doe to the fact that a lot of people wanted to have a shot at you:)

 

Almoest all good pilots have mastered toones both factions. As for a bit to much premades flying...well that might be right.

 

Quick sum up:

 

Hurting disto buffs gunships and leaves strike as easy snipe prey. Do that and i will rule prego as Father and son!(Looks at his quarell with a colorful properell hat)

Edited May 31, 2015 by Etrii

[ALaggyGrunt]

If the whole enemy team is focusing only one target (you), that means there are 7 to 11 other ships on your team which should be swatting the very single-minded enemy team down like flies.

[Etrii]

If the whole enemy team is focusing only one target (you), that means there are 7 to 11 other ships on your team which should be swatting the very single-minded enemy team down like flies.

 

 

Troue. But imp best premades on prego are good enough to have one target focused and still kill the other players in the meantime.

 

I meant that facing a pilot with Tommysub`s reputation is much more fun that flying on his side.

 

Espacialy that most prego pilots are in love with t2 scouts. So it`s a thrill to chalange the "top dog around"

[PanzerKraken]

Frankly simply think Strikes should have their damage output across the board bumped up, make them something to be feared. You get on a scouts tail and pour damage into it, it usually can easily shrug it off and get away or back at you to out maneuver you easily. A strike should be something you need to avoid, it's a main striker of the game and should be dealing big damage, it doesn't have the range of gunships, so the extra damage potential is fine, as strikes have to work harder than scouts to close range gaps. Frankly right now Strikes just aren't scary, they are easy pickings at range to gunships, and in dogfights outclassed by scouts in ability to fight. Their main advantage is being tougher and more damage, but that has proven to be not good enough. So make them deal more damage, and if anything maybe even toughen them up slightly.

 

Outside of attempting more gimmick weapons like the strike only missiles they added, which few will use even, they need to focus on making Strikes good at what they are supposed to do, which means buffing their combat potential. The strike should be the main brawler in the game, so make them a bit more survivable and more dangerous.

[Etrii]

Frankly simply think Strikes should have their damage output across the board bumped up, make them something to be feared. You get on a scouts tail and pour damage into it, it usually can easily shrug it off and get away or back at you to out maneuver you easily. A strike should be something you need to avoid, it's a main striker of the game and should be dealing big damage, it doesn't have the range of gunships, so the extra damage potential is fine, as strikes have to work harder than scouts to close range gaps. Frankly right now Strikes just aren't scary, they are easy pickings at range to gunships, and in dogfights outclassed by scouts in ability to fight. Their main advantage is being tougher and more damage, but that has proven to be not good enough. So make them deal more damage, and if anything maybe even toughen them up slightly.

 

Outside of attempting more gimmick weapons like the strike only missiles they added, which few will use even, they need to focus on making Strikes good at what they are supposed to do, which means buffing their combat potential. The strike should be the main brawler in the game, so make them a bit more survivable and more dangerous.

 

Strikes dosent have "more damage" they have higher dmg in a very hard to keep, max range area.

 

Thier tank`ness helps a bit vs mines, but vs any evasion target, evasion armor is the best armor.

 

during a fight(asuming strike dosent get wasted in an instant-BIG assumption scout)

Strike has to "eat" damage vs dmg that is not recived by a scout due to evasion.

 

Basicly: scout vs strike = scout cna be unharmed, but a strike will always recive at least shild damage. Which means strike can go to another fight quickly while strike has to regain shild pool(not to mention bleedthrow)

[Hyllstarter]

My pet peeve is the belief that people thing all ships should be equal. So unless your going to take gunships and bombers out of the game don't screw with gsf.

[Etrii]

My pet peeve is the belief that people thing all ships should be equal. So unless your going to take gunships and bombers out of the game don't screw with gsf.

 

Nor GS or bombers are op. For now what we have meta works around

 

Scout>GS>bombers> scout meta

 

The problem is that strikes dont fit there, and in this form jack of all, is just not cutting it

 

If you hate bombers and or GS, there are a losts of people who will help you in learning how to to deal with them

 

And Removing GS and Bombers...well that would be like forcing strikes to bend over and drop thier pants and wait for being scouted.

[tommmsunb]

Nor GS or bombers are op. For now what we have meta works around

 

Scout>GS>bombers> scout meta

 

The problem is that strikes dont fit there, and in this form jack of all, is just not cutting it

 

If you hate bombers and or GS, there are a losts of people who will help you in learning how to to deal with them

 

And Removing GS and Bombers...well that would be like forcing strikes to bend over and drop thier pants and wait for being scouted.

 

I wouldn't say it's scouts>gunships>bombers exactly. I'd say it's more like scouts+gunships > bombers or bombers+gunships>scouts by themselves scouts>gunships but with bombers gunships+scouts>bombers for example.

[Ershiin]

I'd say if anything, what Strike Fighters could use is options.

The tradeoff of having sort of average stats should be the ability to customize so that you're not just an inferior version of whatever specialized ship you're mimicing (support, attack, control, etc).

Ships like the Jurgoran or the Decimus currently seems to fill the roles otherwise intended for Strike Fighters tbh, so i'd look at them for inspiration. (They're both decent dogfighters where the Jurgoran has the ability to soften up attackers and finish off runners, while the Decimus has the mobility required to engage points offensively aswell as the toughness to provide decent defense afterwards.)

Edited May 31, 2015 by Ershiin

[Etrii]

I wouldn't say it's scouts>gunships>bombers exactly. I'd say it's more like scouts+gunships > bombers or bombers+gunships>scouts by themselves scouts>gunships but with bombers gunships+scouts>bombers for example.

 

I agree that my version was simplified, and we always have some other classes in the mix

 

And with 8 to 12 ship rooster its always a combo

And matches with all of the pilots knowing the mechanics are happeining extremly rearly.

 

But in the long run i agree with you , thats its combo vs combo, not ship type vs ship type.

 

I'd say if anything, what Strike Fighters could use is options.

The tradeoff of having sort of average stats should be the ability to customize so that you're not just an inferior version of whatever specialized ship you're mimicing (support, attack, control, etc).

Ships like the Jurgoran or the Decimus currently seems to fill the roles otherwise intended for Strike Fighters tbh, so i'd look at them for inspiration. (They're both decent dogfighters where the Jurgoran has the ability to soften up attackers and finish off runners, while the Decimus has the mobility required to engage points offensively aswell as the toughness to provide decent defense afterwards.)

 

Sadly at this point in serius games a t3 GS is just a support Rail to T1`s ion+ slug

 

It`s the best "carry" team GS since its offering a "better then strike" fighting close range ability"

 

i would say what a T3 bomber does in a serius game but that ship was never spotted their(a bit of irony)

 

a T3 Bomber is a better strike then most strikes. And still it dosent make him a good ship.

 

He has an acctepable drone, incresed mobilty but lacks: close range danger ability of t1 bomber, regen ability and team buff of t2. He has powerdive, but it` usage moves him of satelite. Also 3 weak mines at best(or 3 useless mines) isent cutting it. , For good guns it has quads and heavies, and I agree that Heavy with range cap + conc incresses its threat range to scouts.bot nowhere need needed lvl to be considered a good ship.