Hmmm....I agree and dis-agree. At the same time. Play as you like but don`t be an arse. If you want to always go all in,Like Verains version. Sure go for it. If you are feeling generous, have time to spare to farm medalas or fly a Lolz ship do so. But...Don`t whine about ohers spending their time in game as they want to. Some of us have a limited play time and THEY HAVE THE RIGHT TO USE THEIR TIME TO HAVE MAXIMUM FUN But don`t use "it shapes better pilots, argument". It dosent work on most. On most pilots it works: like ah damn to hell wth that game. And those of us, who were stubbern enough to pass the learning curve...well we would do it anyway. You know what is better after a match vs food ships? Pick up one-two names that died lest or you saw them TRYING, relog talk to them and HELP THEM GET BETTER. Tell them about GSF channel, Stasiepedia, Drak`s vids, or just help them with crew setting(stock one is crap) I can tell you, getting 3 - caped, blown out on spawn by 3 seismic in the face. Is a terrible experience. But`s its IN THE GAME!. You win strongly, you have fair fights, and you loose as well Every top pilot had a match when they were hounted like dogs, couse their team was crap and loosed badly.We know how it feels. Even tommysub had at least one match like this, and I had a pleasure to be on the hunting side. And he flies the most survivable meta ship in the game and is propably the best scout on the market. Base line: Have fun, Help people, and dont be a an arse about winning or loosing.

Giving strikes distortion field would just turn them i to quad/cluster scouts with less mobility and less options

Hmmm...i was really thinking about the t3 strike. Mainly....why many think it`s almoest good. Maybe its the mobility? Yes, only scout than can go places, not constantly be "going places" Maybe its the ability to tank a lot of damage? Both CP and Directional builds offer a lot of utility. From tanking Slug Shoots to eating seismics. A repair probe negates bleedthrough quite well. Actually. IT`S THE ONLY SHIP THAT CAN TANK DAMAGE. T2 bomber or t3 scout, cant do it. Drones can be destroyed and limit mobility. so That is a unique value on that ship. What about killing power? It`s mehish. But it`s the best ship to look at guns without strong secondary missiles. Quads...why are they better on a scout? systems? Speed? TT/BO is riduculsy powerfull with having terrible guns...BUT LC on mobility T1 scout are still good. Sure you can deliver some nice damage if you deliver a thermite first. Which is unlikely. T3 is used often as an example of nagating ion railgun...ok...but so what now?you hide your shilds, powerdived, are ready to kick some ion spaming ***. you even got in to 5-6k range...you shoot...and a GS is running. So you are starting a chase. And you are chasing...and chasing...and chasing. and then you are peeled of target. If you were able to land a kill it depends on Gunships misplay. Ok, so maybe the tankish ability will help vs scouts? pod jousters maybe? You start to joust...and podsters have TT/BO and or pods...more efective dmg in the same range. What about BLC scouts? AH ok i have you now! my weapons better in that 2,5 k range difference frame it`s my window of oportunity....errr where did the window went? Basicly that 2,5k is closed in less then a 2 seconds. less if scouts uses booster. Strikes speed is 740+ m/s and scouts 780+ m/s so its its less then 1,5 second without boosters. With less efective accuracy evasion balance. Even if RNG blessed you can deliver 1401 dmg in that time frime. with only passive evasion scout evasion its 911. It`s not enough do any signifact damage. My point is that ability to deliver its damage vs a scout or a gunship is lacking. Not the damage itself, but DAMAGE IN EFECTIVE TIME FRAME. Now lets add some range, some damage, and some accuracy [2km, 10%, 8%] Now that encouter takes almoest 3 seconds so the scout entering its "danger zone" ate on avrage 1850 dmg sure that number could be negated by disto`s time, TT evasion , RI. So what we need is to incressed strike "kill window range/time" But looking at It it`s easy to over tune it.

Agreed, otherwise pods would be a trap for a t2 strike

I wasent recomending adding a lock break but a lock immunity, but yeah i`m guilty of forgeting that t1 and t2 bombers have that. (Which is much stronger on t1)

Those ideas are going into the right direction only few things(more likely number tweeks) 1. Reducing the engine initial cost and sustain is a good thing. But it`s not enough. With lower base speed and terible regen, the would still be Ion GS fodder. Increses the powerpool to the lvl that it can "tank" one-two ion shots(from half a pool) 2. 50 % is way to much 10-15% would still be a significant boost, but not going over the top. Their dmg should be on pair not superior to other clases: Basicly Strikes have acces to realy good guns HLC/Quad/LLC so the damage is not a problem. DAMAGE DELIVERY IS. 50% damage for rapids would be good, but it would overtune HLC and Quad(LLC propably as well) As for missile`s, incressing their base speed to reduce reaction time and add/increase crticical chance would be a good start. As for strikes, lets don`t forget about clasters, with 50% dmg boost they would hit for 1,2k and still being spamable 3. yes,yes,yes! Tune HLC to 8,5k, quads to 7k, LLC/Ion/rapids to 6k With damage boost/engine boost/accuracy boost it would strongly increses their time in superior range to scouts and their ability to hit even evasive targets 4. 20% would be a bit to much 5-8% would be a better number to incres damage delivery. All of those changes afects t1 strike which is good, the ability to hit something would strongly increse the quality of GSF first encouter. 5. Works for me. 6. Not needed change, even with engine effciency boost SG will have hard timestaying in really efective range. With accuracy/dmg bonus LLC would be a nice touch as a close quaters gun to synergise with ion. Also without systems slot they wouldent be as good a scout ones. Also it would be confusing for "fresher" pilots to have two main guns with diferent firing styles. Give T1 LLC in place of rapids instead! 7. Give pike retro thrusters AND powerdive 8. Give pike ID missile and thermite torps as for pods, i like the concept of pods being exclusive to t1 and t2 scouts, also even with improved boos T2 would still have a problem with keeping a terget in pod optimal range. Also bad turing on pike wouldent help with keeping 5-6 fast targets in range 9. Fully agreed 10. Propably a bit to much for a support tanky ship, but i`ll not defend that point strongly. HLC conc, HLC/Thermite are all fun concept but...i`d prefer it to be on pike where you could have HLC/Thermite/Concs.

Ok...where should i start? t1 strike can dream of being a t2 scout.Even a slower and lower dmg t2 scout t2 strike has wet dreams of being a t3 GS t3 GS offers: better guns, better shilds, better missiles, better engines ...oh yeah...it can also have railgun. t3 the only thing that ship is lacking is a good secondary HLC wouldent hurt as well. Otherwise i`s a mobile best heals platform with decent mobility. Almoest meta worthy

I agree with all of that if that would be scaled via performance in match. In much better wat then now, couse lot of matches feel the pain of CQ points farmers

Quote: Originally Posted by CommanderKiko View Post Elitism has no place in GSF, it's hard enough to get queues to pop as is. To be frank, elitism has no place anywhere. Can we please cut the offtop and focus on the main topic? Strikefighters Feel free to make a topic about Elitism in GSF in seperate window

Agreed 100% then also the problem is that a serius game dosen`t need filler ships. couse the gap between specialised and filler is to big.

I agree that my version was simplified, and we always have some other classes in the mix And with 8 to 12 ship rooster its always a combo And matches with all of the pilots knowing the mechanics are happeining extremly rearly. But in the long run i agree with you , thats its combo vs combo, not ship type vs ship type. Sadly at this point in serius games a t3 GS is just a support Rail to T1`s ion+ slug It`s the best "carry" team GS since its offering a "better then strike" fighting close range ability" i would say what a T3 bomber does in a serius game but that ship was never spotted their(a bit of irony) a T3 Bomber is a better strike then most strikes. And still it dosent make him a good ship. He has an acctepable drone, incresed mobilty but lacks: close range danger ability of t1 bomber, regen ability and team buff of t2. He has powerdive, but it` usage moves him of satelite. Also 3 weak mines at best(or 3 useless mines) isent cutting it. , For good guns it has quads and heavies, and I agree that Heavy with range cap + conc incresses its threat range to scouts.bot nowhere need needed lvl to be considered a good ship.

Nor GS or bombers are op. For now what we have meta works around Scout>GS>bombers> scout meta The problem is that strikes dont fit there, and in this form jack of all, is just not cutting it If you hate bombers and or GS, there are a losts of people who will help you in learning how to to deal with them And Removing GS and Bombers...well that would be like forcing strikes to bend over and drop thier pants and wait for being scouted.

Strikes dosent have "more damage" they have higher dmg in a very hard to keep, max range area. Thier tank`ness helps a bit vs mines, but vs any evasion target, evasion armor is the best armor. during a fight(asuming strike dosent get wasted in an instant-BIG assumption scout) Strike has to "eat" damage vs dmg that is not recived by a scout due to evasion. Basicly: scout vs strike = scout cna be unharmed, but a strike will always recive at least shild damage. Which means strike can go to another fight quickly while strike has to regain shild pool(not to mention bleedthrow)

Love the bizzare amount in that semi-proposal. And is actually quite similiar to thuoghts. What IF t3 GS had a plasma railgun from the start(definitly not changed now ,from SLUG to PLASMA) And actually not a bad one, when you think about it. Best mobility of all snipe ships, TT would nicely compansate for lack t4 accuracy tracking talent, crit on plasma would deliver nice dmg, and weak hull would make it very "killable" by other ships. Propalby you would have to remove armor component not to have 33% base evasion GS. You could stack evasion using RI and relying an accuracy buff from TT damn...that would be some ship to fly! I don`t know if it would meta worthy and ofc no missiles(system slot taken by TT/TF) But for 100% it would be tons of fun flying. Hmmm...Tensor with 6% evasion+ incresed mobility vs TT with 8% evasion,accuracy buff and crit chance and crit magnitude....TT for me. As always...mostly due to the uptime I actually want this to be a real thing:D

Did some math and testing in game: It looks like base speed of protorps is at about 1250 m/s - concs speed is at about 1665 m/s i`t means that at max range vs a powerdiving it`s imposible to get hit by a protorp from max range. Math [Protorp flight time at 11500= 9.2 seconds] Powerdive CD [10 sec] Imunity[#3sec after activation 3 sec] Lock on time [3,4] So even locking just in the same split second as the safety bubble is off, PD is 7 sec cooldown remaining. and now the lock on 3,4 sec. missile is in the air. 3,6 sec on powerdive cooldown. Missile is broken after traveling 4500 meteres. and now we have a immunity for the next 3 sec, but it dosent really matter couse protorp cooldown is 11 seconds. but ok, you might say that powerdive is the ultimate defensive cooldown. how it works vs retro thrusters? cooldown 14 sec Just after a target used it So, we are 11 seconds in cooldown, - 3.4= 7,6 seconds in cooldown, missile is broken after traveling 9500 m.(7,6 seconds) safaty(2k safe range and 1,6 sec remaining now Barrer roll: 20 sec cooldown again 3 sec safety bublle , 17 sec left on the clock.lock(3,4). 13.6 sec on the clock 9.2 seconds. a BR target is hit with 4.4 seconds remaining on CD And i know that max range fired protons arent often, i know that you can add time by running using booster. So lets see how protorps work with 100% t4 talent: Powerdive 7 sec-3,4 lock on and 4,6 flight time. 0,2 sec reaction time window Retro 11 sec -3,4 lock on and 4,6 flight time. hit with 3 sec on protorp side Barrer roll hit with 12 sec on protorp side Hmmm....what ships can acces only BR as a good option, without any other missile break...T2 GS and T2 strike(current Kaiogan turn is a joke) "Ok, so how about concs ? " you might ask shorter range, faster missile it should be better right? Again flight time and 7700 range [4.6 seconds] lock on: 2.6 Relaod 6 sec PD 7-4.6.-2.6-2= -0,2 sec(reflex latency hit/miss) Retro: 14-4.6.-2.6-2 = 6,8(safe hit) Barrer roll 17-4.6.-2.6-2=9.8 (Btw this means that a target from max range using only BR can eat 2 concs unless it manually evades or breaks LOS) with 100% speed upgrade: protorps: PD 7 sec -3.4-3.0= 0,6 hit Retro 11 -3.4-3.0 4,6 hit Barrer roll 17-6.4 = 10.6 BR ship are still eating only one protrp, due to 11 sec cooldown Other ships are "hitable" For concs with 2x speed vs powerdive 7- 2,4-2,6 = 2 sec hit vs retro 11-2,4-2,6= 6 sec hit vs BR 17-2,4-2,6= 12 sec hit so in theory thay can eat 2 max range concs with one second remaining So what about disto? correctly used disto should be used second, lets assue it`s used 3 times per minute(Sec zero, sec 20, sec 40. Lets also assume that powerdive is used in the mid, so 6 times powerdive(18 sec immunity and 6 m breakes and3 disto m-breaks A protorp can be fired at every 14,4 seconds which means for protrps per minute. PD+ disto can avoid every one Retro and disto can at max provide 8 m breaks per minute Barrer roll and disto can provide 6. All of the main manovers still makes it hard to land a proton on a ship with 2x missile break, extra speed didnt changed much here How about concs now? almoest 7 shots per minute BR disto target would get hit Retro target is more or less safe PD target is completly safe lets look at optimal missile open spots on the most on a PD disto scout for just 30 sec: PD Sec 1 - powerdive used Sec 4 - immunity buble ends sec 4- disto activated sec 10- PD ready to use(disto CD 16 sec) sec 13- immunity bubble ends(disto CD 11 sec, PD cooldown 7 sec) Sec 20- powerdive active (disto CD 4sec) Sec 23- PD imunity ends(disto CD 1 sec, PD cooldown 7 sec) Sec 24 - Disto used(PD cooldown 6 seconds) Sec 30 - PD activated (Disto cooldown 14 seconds) I know it`s the most missile resiliant t2 scout build but still at best you have a 7 second gap between abilites iwth my proposal you would actually be able to lock and hit the even that build with a torp from max range. If you would play it well. ther also shouldent be a problem with landing concs, couse it would be harder to dogde them.

Troue. But imp best premades on prego are good enough to have one target focused and still kill the other players in the meantime. I meant that facing a pilot with Tommysub`s reputation is much more fun that flying on his side. Espacialy that most prego pilots are in love with t2 scouts. So it`s a thrill to chalange the "top dog around"

You have some good sugestions, i dont agree with all of them, but all of the are nice(I especialy liked different turrets type) As for converters, in my opinion they are very interesting. Weapon power converter Sacrificing both defence and mobility for questionable profit of extra blaster energy pool is not a good trade off. IF it activated a flat 7% buff to primary wapon dmg for 5 seconds it would be something(with a trade of incresed cooldown, up to 12 seconds) Shild power converter I was playing with that component on a charged plating t2 pike, and i have to say it was much better then i thought(Not good, but better) It gives really a powerfull shild arc: 2970, stacked with 94% dmg reduction it was...acceptable on sats. And chasing a bomber on the sat spaming clusters and LLC shots was fun. Getting to the sat was a pain, due to ion flying around and zero defence vs incoming protorps. and this ship is not fast or manoverlable enough to work well in the open. What this component needs is a 3 second lock immunity(same as engine lock-breakers have)(also at a price of incressed cooldown to 12 seconds) As for those poor missiles. I`m not a fan of messing with Disto, i think its a valid component and great gunship couter. What i would want to see is incresing their "rewardness of landing" i think that a massive boost to speed for all of them (except clusters) would be a good 1st step, Sadly even with advanced tooltips i havent found missile speed. So no math to support my theory. We know that Protons arent afected much by 100% extra speed upgrade , if their flight time would be incressed to 300% total the reaction time would be lower. Also, shorter flight time would strongly afect ther "land propablity" i also ihink that they need higher critical chance at about 15% So, by type: Protorps would have 25% critical chance(going up from 10%) and max 300% speed Increse base speed by 100% and have left talant boost it by 50% (instead of current 100%) Thermites would recive a 15% crit chance(from zero, wthout TT), both to "on impact dmg and to DOT, tic`s and max 300% speed concussions They would recive the abilty to Crit a target for 1659 with 464 dmg going to hull(729 with bypass) and 100% speed boost as base. Clusters and interdiction are in good place atm for utility missiles i think you nailed it;)

This concept is great. Make a race ship from one of the existing with pre-defind components, add some targets to score points and it would be an optimal tool to familiarise new pilots with the "feel", controls and game mechanics(OFC except actuall dogfighting, but we cant have all, right?)

In farm matches a rapid laser t3 scout with shild projector is a deadly ship. Balancing around them leads only to one solution: Nerf good pilots, not nerf good ships. Current meta is very fun, deep and intesting, without DF field you will not hurt gunships(well a bit) couse they use mostly Disto vs other gunships, and relly on a second missile break mostly while on the run. With less evasion on scouts, strikes would get shread. Removing it will make serius dent in t1 scout play style as well, and no one will say that t1 scout is overpowered. so it would leave only a t3 scout with Weaker disto, leads to GS safaty and strikes don`t have the presure ability, To long TTK, not enough base speed, and engine pool, not enough evasion to dodge resnable amout of rails. Nerfing disto would lead to sniper fest. "One rail to rule them all!" Eliminating scouts from the equasion would also allow bypass as a co-pilot. 44%shild piercing. Thats 775 dmg per fully charged slug (with extra 10% upgrade). Whith means any GS could 2 shoot any strike WITHOUT USING ION As for Prego, most of what you saw doe to the fact that a lot of people wanted to have a shot at you:) Almoest all good pilots have mastered toones both factions. As for a bit to much premades flying...well that might be right. Quick sum up: Hurting disto buffs gunships and leaves strike as easy snipe prey. Do that and i will rule prego as Father and son!(Looks at his quarell with a colorful properell hat)

Nerfing scouts would only lead to one thing. A big buff to gunships, and a medium buff seekers and missile drones. Second missile m-break is esential to dodge a mine/missile on the way the entrenched GS Removing it would buff bombers as well(thou it would buff not so good seekers a missile drone) And even with all proposed bufffs Strike`s don`t have the base speed in chasis to be efective in GS hunting. Basicly a love tap from ion with slow talent makes strike`s almoest as dead in the watter as energy drain. We need to muff strikes to match good classes, to have 4 good classes. Not nerf everything to 4 bad classes

^ This New plyers now jack crap about balance or even what the frq is going on. I`m not getting into "kill them as fast/keep it easy" discussion but a new pilot on stock shipeven with best effort can`t do jack crap Why do aces perform well in sotcks?couse they understand the limitations of their own ship and know the weaknesess of other classes.Also new pilots don`t have "home turf advantege" couse mostly they are to green to even know that GSF chat exisists. Buffing strike chassis would help that problem but it will not solve it. And to be sure,I`m notevensure if it is problem that should be solved

I know the quing yourself might be considered e-pening but all of my sugestion afcct stock strikes. Would it make them compatible vs good pilots?NO couse the skill gap

Ships that kill "op scouts:" on regular bases t1 GS(if they lay an ion hit first) t3 GS if they mange to dmg scout at least a bit with rail t1 bombers with seismic t2 bombers with rali/seekers yeah...scouts are so op... Most good pilots agree on fact tthat strikes (t1 and t3) arent bad. They are just not good enough IF you can aress the matter as simple a buffing one class =/= nerfing others i`lltell you what would happen: GS would kill you all, couse even Drako in imperium cant chalange a decent GS, who has and knows how to use ion

In a dogfighght t1 scout is better the strikes t2 scout is better then strike t3 bomber is better the strike 2x missile troll build t3 GS is better then strikes 2x missile t2 GS is still a bit better then strikes So...how come are t2 scouts to blame?

As a member of that guild when i`m logging into to Bastion to get late night pops, andi`m in the mood to ignore killer latency...You are teaching wrong things to wrong ships. I`m having problems with thinking serius about a pilot who sad <semi qute>? "My bomber didnt work, i`ll go pike" And it was during a "super serius night" As for strikes i stand y ground.: Crit chance, engine pool, engine regen and shild regen + buff for Kaiogan