Let's talk about Strike Fighters

[Gavin_Kelvar]

The set of suggestions you quoted were centered around a jousting role for strikes. Better mid-range combat is a nice perk of the longer range and faster lock on changes. Accuracy needs to be higher the closer the jousting target is, or scouts would just close the gap, use cooldowns and it's the same as before. I don't see the point in very high accuracy at higher ranges, because if the target pulls DF at a relatively high range it basically makes itself more vulnerable to lock ons - remember, they have reduced time. The idea behind the accuracy buff is to make jousting at all range possible. This means a scout should get hit very likely in close range even when he's using DF and also a gunship should get hit reliably (but not 100%) at max range (as mentioned, something about 10km) even when the gunship is using DF - repeat: the buff is mainly for jousting.

I'm not sure how threatening exactly an accuracy buff will be, but scouts aren't that durable if their main defense is taken away. Also the range will help because the scout probably will have taken a few hits before he comes close.

 

Now that you explain the logic I think they're overall good suggestions. I think though that the buff at extreme range needs to nullify DField evasion from the get-go. DField missile break (unless tweaked) will effectively mean strikers have no secondary weapon (unless reload is similarly reduced the joust will be over before a new missile is ready even with a reduced lock-on time; either way in order to land a missile the strike will have to hold their missile hoping for a misplay by the scout, in which case they're only doing primary weapon damage) and their primary weapons will be comparatively weaker than the scouts due to the absence of a system ability (QLC being better on a T2 scout than the exact same weapon on a strike due to TT/BO; I'm no number cruncher but I doubt a 2-3,000KM range increase will give QLC on a strike the same DPS as QLC + TT/BO). While HLC with it's shield piercing would be good here I don't think it's ideal to make it basically a requirement for strikers to function at peak efficiency.

 

At any rate the strike will be relying entirely on their primary weapon damage due to the DField missile break. So if they're going to have to rely on just their primaries to win a joust against a ship they lack the boost to flee from or beat in a turn fight they need a big enough buff to accuracy at range that it nullifies the other half of DField's defense effect (the evasion boost). Otherwise a scout can just pop defensive evasion CDs to minimize the damage a striker's primaries do outside of the scout's weapon range and then you'll have a DPS race which I think will probably play out much like it does now (namely the striker's primaries can't reliably out DPS the scout's MLC/QLC/BLC + pods + TT/BO combo before the strike takes critical or lethal damage). The thing being that a strike will not just need to win the joust, they'll need to win with the majority of their health intact so they can repeat the joust tactic multiple times before attrition finally takes its tole and kills them (assuming here that you can't balance on the assumption of heals from an ally being available).

 

Having the primary weapon accuracy buff to close range accuracy whittle down the impact of passive evasion on top of any active evasion won't be that bad since all strike primary weapons worth using for hull damage come with hefty tracking penalties and small firing arcs (plus their secondaries won't be useful unless they're using clusters since obtaining a lock at close range is not ideal). Unless some major tweaks occur I don't think HLC/QLC will displace BLC as the best gun for high deflection shots so scouts will still retain their edge if perhaps feeling threatened when the accidentally stray into a striker's sights in a turn fight. But if strikers can at least still be threatening in a turn fight, even if they're not the best at it, will go a long way to shaking up the meta.

Edited August 7, 2015 by Gavin_Kelvar

[VitorFox]

All they need to do is make Strike Fighters significantly faster but not as agile as scouts.

 

They become like the american pacific fighters of WWII. Big, heavy, fast, well armed but not agile. They favored Boom and Zoom as their attack method against the smaller and more agile japanese fighters.

 

Thats all you need.

[Luneward]

All they need to do is make Strike Fighters significantly faster but not as agile as scouts.

 

They become like the american pacific fighters of WWII. Big, heavy, fast, well armed but not agile. They favored Boom and Zoom as their attack method against the smaller and more agile japanese fighters.

 

Thats all you need.

 

Except this doesn't solve the issue that Strikes still don't have a role. They're still outperformed by scouts at dogfighting, outperformed by gunships at range, and outperformed by bombers in area denial. More speed/maneuverability doesn't give them a niche they can move into.

[VitorFox]

Sure it does!

 

First of, they fight in a different way than scouts do as they need to capitalize more speed than agility.

 

Secondly, speed means faster reaction time: Someone took A or C? Strike Fighters get there sooner. A bunch of gunships set themselves up in a deathmatch and are now a wall of death? Strike Fighters can use their speed to get around and behind them.

 

Speed is a big advantage!

[ALaggyGrunt]

Fast and toothless is only slightly better than slightly slower and toothless. A solid ion rail strike will still put an end to it.

 

Edit: Heh, we didn't coordinate that timing.

Edited August 8, 2015 by ALaggyGrunt

[Danalon]

Sure it does!

 

First of, they fight in a different way than scouts do as they need to capitalize more speed than agility.

 

Secondly, speed means faster reaction time: Someone took A or C? Strike Fighters get there sooner. A bunch of gunships set themselves up in a deathmatch and are now a wall of death? Strike Fighters can use their speed to get around and behind them.

 

Speed is a big advantage!

 

I agree strikes would profit from a faster boost, including a bigger engine pool. But the question is: would this be enough to make strikes a useful class? Fast response is somewhat covered by scouts, I personally use booster recharge on my T2 Scouts. Another point are weapons. If strikes were fast enough to go around gunships and attack them from the sides then the strikes would still be in disadvantage because strikes are worse in close combat than gunships. Being fast as only change is most likely not enough to make strikes a good choice. Even if all other ships were made slower while strikes were made faster then still strikes would lack firepower. If I'm flying gunship and get attacked by a strike I usually use my DF well timed and kill the strike - faster speed will help strikes to surprise me but I'm relatively sure that's not enough. And let's say I'm in my bomber, attacking a satellite. By the time the attack shows up on the HUD for the enemy and their strikes start responding I'm already there, dropping deployables. No matter how fast strikes were, they'd be too late.

However, faster speed would be a nice addition to my suggestions as it would allow strikes to disengage when necessary and give them more influence on forming a situation to their advantage.

Edited August 8, 2015 by Danalon

[Linuxizer]

All they need to do is make Strike Fighters significantly faster but not as agile as scouts.

 

They become like the american pacific fighters of WWII. Big, heavy, fast, well armed but not agile. They favored Boom and Zoom as their attack method against the smaller and more agile japanese fighters.

 

Thats all you need.

 

There is no gravity in GSF and so there is no potential energy advantage gained from using superior engine power to gain altitude. You can do a vertical manoeuvre like an Immelmann but without gravity to drop your nose it is no better than a horizontal turn.

 

Having said all that, I like your idea more than the other posters do. In Deathmatch, a Fast Strike will be more effective in harassing Gunships (notice I said harassing, not killing...). It still cannot joust or dogfight, but it will be better at hit-and-fade on distracted enemies. When attacked by a Scout, it can simply run away and take a few pot shots at somebody else. It could be about competitive with the NovaDive / Blackbolt.

 

In Denon Domination, I would start with two Spearpoints and six Fast Strikes, two racing to each satellite. The Spearpoints would definitely self-destruct after the Tensor, switch to something else to relief the Fast Strikes at the satellites. Speed does not really help when fighting under the satellites. So when a friendly Gunship / Bomber / Scout arrives, there is once again no role for the Fast Strikes, unfortunately, so they might as well self-destruct and switch to something else.

[VitorFox]

You are absolutely right, there is no altitude to trade for speed.

 

But with a naturally faster craft and one that can boost for longer, you have exactly the same thing. A craft that can dart in and do high speed passes. That is what a boom and zoom is.

 

Against gunships it means they have less time to train their railgun on you, against scouts it means you can outrun them long enough to get out of Cluster Missile range. It it is a massive advantage that you can achieve out of speed alone!

 

I see no reason to change weapon stats or reload times... just give us a craft that flies differently from all others.

Edited August 8, 2015 by VitorFox

[Nemarus]

You are absolutely right, there is no altitude to trade for speed.

 

But with a naturally faster craft and one that can boost for longer, you have exactly the same thing. A craft that can dart in and do high speed passes. That is what a boom and zoom is.

 

Against gunships it means they have less time to train their railgun on you, against scouts it means you can outrun them long enough to get out of Cluster Missile range. It it is a massive advantage that you can achieve out of speed alone!

 

I see no reason to change weapon stats or reload times... just give us a craft that flies differently from all others.

 

This craft already exists. It is the Blackbolt with S2E converter and speed upgrade on its engines. I am a master of flying it. I am faster than anyone else. Other Scouts cannot keep me in range. I can flank Gunships and unload lasers and rockets on them before they are aware of me. I am almost always boosting, making me difficult to hit or lock onto.

 

It is a very powerful build ... in TDM, and in that gametype, in my hands, it can rival all but the very best Battlescouts. The only ship that has me in range long enough to kill me are Gunships working in concert and covering each other. That is why I fly it in TDM, so that I can pretty much ignore other Scouts and Strikes who chase me.

 

But in Domination this build is garbage. No matter how fast I can get to a node, I can't peel enemies off of it because I do not have burst laser cannons. My MLC's and Rocket Pods are only good for straight lancing attacks, and my targets just use the satellite to LOS me.

 

Even if a Strike could somehow maintain the speed of a perpetually boosting Blackbolt, it still lacks Targeting Telemetry and Rocket Pods, substantially reducing its burst damage. Half of its "boom" damage relies on missiles, which give ample warning to the target. It does not have significant Evasion or Power Dive, which means it is at the mercy of Ion Railgun. And it still has the problem that, once it gets to a node, LOS issues make it largely impotent.

 

A significant flat damage increase to Strikes means they can "boom" without having to maintain long stretches of LOS. It means that you have to treat every Strike as if it has Damage Overcharge. You have to see it coming ahead of time and move to flank it or railgun it down. A Scout cannot survive a joust with it unless it has all ita cooldowns, and even then it will come away damaged. And if such a Strike gets two shots off without you reacting to, you should be almost dead. A third shot should kill a Scout.

 

They need to be big, threatening guns that you cannot ever turn your back on. The appearance of a Strike on your sensors needs to cause you to take preemptive action, just like you must with a Gunship, Scout or Bomber.

Edited August 8, 2015 by Nemarus

[JasonSzeremi]

I agree strikes would profit from a faster boost, including a bigger engine pool. But the question is: would this be enough to make strikes a useful class?

However, faster speed would be a nice addition to my suggestions as it would allow strikes to disengage when necessary and give them more influence on forming a situation to their advantage.

 

if strikes were out running scouts but not out shooting them.... would strikes be the new scouts? node racers but not chief node holders? good for quick response but it takes a couple to deal with anything they find?

Scout pilots didn't relish such a role, and when the soup was served scouts were souped up to the point they can lay waste to anything on the battle field (in the right hands). But if strikes were faster... had more boost then scouts... then they would be the recon.... and scouts (mostly just the T2s but other scouts are still good dog fighters) would be the strikes....

 

Not an entirely bad idea... but do we really want to go so far as to admit the roles have been reversed? I still like the idea of strikes being heavy fighters that do heavy (certianly more then now) damage to things not nimble enough to get out of their limited range. Scouts seem to be the boost kings currently, and unless the strike can out run the scout, they are going to remain unable to escape that way from one.

 

Honestly, all the things I want to see on my strike fighter... being able to fly faster then scouts for longer then scouts doesn't seem like a strike fighter thing to do.... more boost couldn't hurt, but out scouting scouts just reminds me that scouts are out striking strike fighters. I think we can get a role for our fighter without taking theirs from theirs.

Edited August 8, 2015 by JasonSzeremi

[VitorFox]

Being fast in a straight line is not what makes a scout be a scout.

 

Scouts benefit from being far more agile and has better sensor range, along with other skills and abilities unique to their class. That is what makes them scouts.

[Nemarus]

Being fast in a straight line is not what makes a scout be a scout.

 

Scouts benefit from being far more agile and has better sensor range, along with other skills and abilities unique to their class. That is what makes them scouts.

 

You described an idea for a Strike involving high speed. I pointed out that a variant Scout build, with Shield-to-Engine converter (do you even know what that is?) already fulfills a speed killer role better than a Strike ever could. It has nothing to do with "what makes a Scout a Scout".

 

Vague notions of role and purpose do not represent the facts of what different component combinations accomplish.

[caederon]

They need to be big, threatening guns that you cannot ever turn your back on. The appearance of a Strike on your sensors needs to cause you to take preemptive action, just like you must with a Gunship, Scout or Bomber.

I think this is the best way to look at any upgrade to Strikes. They don't have a specific role, so they at least need to be threats to anything that ventures into their firing arc.

 

In an idealized fantasy version of the meta, the T2 scout would field a version of BLC that does not have Armor Ignore, and scout rocket pods would either lack armor ignore or maybe retain it and have less ammo, making it a harder choice between using them to blow up turrets or in anti-ship combat. This would conceptually fit well with scouts being mobile, faster than anything, but trading off a bit of firepower to accomplish that. If scout BLC lacked armor ignore, it would still be just as useful vs. scouts, most strikes, and gunships as it is now. It would be much less useful against bombers and turrets, which maybe it ought to be? The T2 scout is currently a very good anti-bomber choice, provided it can get to the bomber before it's entrenched.

 

If scouts lacked their anti-armor capacity, it would open the door for strikes to fill that role with the wide arsenal available to them, especially if the weaker components of that arsenal were buffed to the point of usefulness. Heavy Laser Cannon would be more important than it is now. It's currently a fine choice for your primary weapon, but the non-bomber ships that field it are deficient, and one ship that could make great use of it, the T3 strike, doesn't have access to it.

 

Raw speed really has nothing to do with what's good or bad about strikes, and boosting it wouldn't create a place for strikes in the meta.

 

I think you could give strikes permanent increases to shield capacity and engine pool, add in a damage boost for primary weapons, and in the T2 strike give a baseline increase to missile lock speed, and it wouldn't make them overpowering. It'd make them viable, and there would be reasons people would choose them in competitive matches.

 

Despon

Edited August 9, 2015 by caederon

[Kantaso]

Main problems I have and why I stop playing these missions

 

1- You CANNOT LAUNCH ROCKETS, you need to improve this in a way that when I target another player and I shoot the damn rockets shoot.

 

2- You run out of speed before reaching the main points (A,B,C) I can never get there on time to claim the achievement, that sukks big time

 

3- The ammo starts good and then suddenly you squeeze the button and you may get 2 shots per minute, that is stupid

 

4- The requirements for updating your ship are atrociuosly unfair, you need so much stuff to be able to upgrade your ship that is a disgrace.

[Danalon]

Main problems I have and why I stop playing these missions

 

1- You CANNOT LAUNCH ROCKETS, you need to improve this in a way that when I target another player and I shoot the damn rockets shoot.

 

2- You run out of speed before reaching the main points (A,B,C) I can never get there on time to claim the achievement, that sukks big time

 

3- The ammo starts good and then suddenly you squeeze the button and you may get 2 shots per minute, that is stupid

 

4- The requirements for updating your ship are atrociuosly unfair, you need so much stuff to be able to upgrade your ship that is a disgrace.

 

This sounds like you're talking about GSF in general and not Strikes. I'll still answer to your points but please, if you have any more questions or concerns that aren't relevant to the topic then look for a fitting thread or make a new one.

 

1- You need to be in range of your target, keep the target inside the firing arc of whatever missile you use, hold down the right mouse button, wait until the beeping changes and signalizes the missile is locked, then release the right mouse button. You need to know the range of your missiles and usually stay 500 meters closer to your target than the max range of a missile is.

 

2- and 3- sound like you have problems with your energy management. Use F1-F4 to distribute power to your weapons, shields or engines or to use an equal distribution to all of them. Diverting more power to your engines will make you faster and your boost last longer. Diverting power to your weapons increases their damage and energy regeneration. Diverting power to your shields increses the maximum shield strength and regenration.

2- If you want to get to a satellite before everyone else, use a scout.

3- Think of your weapon energy as the "magazine size" of your blasters. Some weapons have small magazines and need to be reloaded more often, other weapons have huge magazines. It's a stat that makes weapons feel different and balances them.

 

4- Most ships get the bulk of their fighting power with only around 30k requisition put into them. You can get around 10k per week for all of your ships simultaneously just by doing the repeatable quests. When playing actively getting to 30k of requisition for a single ship can easily be done within a week. When a ship reaches 60-70k requisition spent (that's about half the amount to max it) then most of the remaining upgrades won't do much to make it stronger - it has reached almost full fighting power and the important mechanics work. I know it's hard to get requisition sometimes because it's based on performance but I also know that the upgrade status of a ship is not as important as the pilot flying it. I'm not talking about aces flying stock ships or something. Every pilot, who actively learns the game can help his team to win a match, no matter what upgrades he has already bought.

Edited August 11, 2015 by Danalon

[JasonSzeremi]

This sounds like you're talking about GSF in general and not Strikes. I'll still answer to your points but please, if you have any more questions or concerns that aren't relevant to the topic then look for a fitting thread or make a new one.

 

1- You need to be in range of your target, keep the target inside the firing arc of whatever missile you use, hold down the right mouse button, wait until the beeping changes and signalizes the missile is locked, then release the right mouse button. You need to know the range of your missiles and usually stay 500 meters closer to your target than the max range of a missile is.

 

2- and 3- sound like you have problems with your energy management. Use F1-F4 to distribute power to your weapons, shields or engines or to use an equal distribution to all of them. Diverting more power to your engines will make you faster and your boost last longer. Diverting power to your weapons increases their damage and energy regeneration. Diverting power to your shields increses the maximum shield strength and regenration.

2- If you want to get to a satellite before everyone else, use a scout.

3- Think of your weapon energy as the "magazine size" of your blasters. Some weapons have small magazines and need to be reloaded more often, other weapons have huge magazines. It's a stat that makes weapons feel different and balances them.

 

4- Most ships get the bulk of their fighting power with only around 30k requisition put into them. You can get around 10k per week for all of your ships simultaneously just by doing the repeatable quests. When playing actively getting to 30k of requisition for a single ship can easily be done within a week. When a ship reaches 60-70k requisition spent (that's about half the amount to max it) then most of the remaining upgrades won't do much to make it stronger - it has reached almost full fighting power and the important mechanics work. I know it's hard to get requisition sometimes because it's based on performance but I also know that the upgrade status of a ship is not as important as the pilot flying it. I'm not talking about aces flying stock ships or something. Every pilot, who actively learns the game can help his team to win a match, no matter what upgrades he has already bought.

 

1 if you're in a strike your secondary weapon is missiles and the above mechanic always applies.... Scouts often mount 'rocket pods' which fire just like lasers

2. perhaps part of the problem is finding pops harder to come by on your server

3. everyone who flies is rewarded in gsf, no matter how poorly, as long as they participate... I often used it just to get credits to buy things from vendors or the market

4. the more you do gsf the better you get... everyone starts out pretty low on the board, I look at times when I'm getting shot down as challenges to learn to fly better, or opportunities to try to be harder to kill.... although 'run like chicken' as I call my full panic tactic doesn't count as participating.

[DewyMossEmpire]

Eh? My Quell\Pike are my best ships. They have diverse fittings & capabilities & they make the best dogfighters. I rarely lose a 1v1 to a 3v1 in my Strikefighter. If you want to buff them go right ahead, but what ~should be the focus is obliterating the Gunships & Bombers. GSF should be about skill, not FPS-styled Sniping or trap laying. It is boring to play as & not fun to play against.

[Danalon]

Eh? My Quell\Pike are my best ships. They have diverse fittings & capabilities & they make the best dogfighters. I rarely lose a 1v1 to a 3v1 in my Strikefighter. If you want to buff them go right ahead, but what ~should be the focus is obliterating the Gunships & Bombers. GSF should be about skill, not FPS-styled Sniping or trap laying. It is boring to play as & not fun to play against.

 

It's not that hard to obliterate 3 people at the same time. The majority of pilots operates at a relatively low skill level.

 

Strikes are the only ship class that can't deal with bombers or gunships because bombers and gunships are superior to strikes. That's exaclty what you complain about.

If you really like flying strike fighters use this thread to make suggestions how to improve them.

[DewyMossEmpire]

It's not that hard to obliterate 3 people at the same time. The majority of pilots operates at a relatively low skill level.

 

Strikes are the only ship class that can't deal with bombers or gunships because bombers and gunships are superior to strikes. That's exaclty what you complain about.

If you really like flying strike fighters use this thread to make suggestions how to improve them.

 

Taking down Bombers & Gunships whilst flying a Strikefigher is a simple science with the proper fittings. Knowing how to use distance & cover or the proper boosts & abilities together is an easy way to overcome them. The only thing I'd really want to improve with the Strikefighters are their energy pools, as they can prove to be rather inefficient.

Edited August 13, 2015 by DewyMossEmpire

[Grdosija]

Total GSF noob here, so don't screm at me but anyway, here's my 2 cents. Also I didn't read all the 50+ posts, because I kinda have stuff to do so please don't get angry if I'm suggesting something that's already been suggested

 

Right now I'm getting the best performance on the Pike. It's probably because I'm a beginner and don't know how to fly yet, so the speed and maneuverability of the scout is working against me. But anyhow, the way I see it, every other ship class have something unique to bring to the table: GS have railguns, bombers have mines/drones/etc, scouts have speed/maneuverability, unique systems and even a few unique weapons (like the burst laser cannon). What do strikes have that's unique to them? The Star Guard has the Ion cannon. Yay.... I guess if you want to improve, you should define their role first and then add some unique stuff.

 

Pike is the missile boat, so give him a unique missile or two and unique systems for those missiles, e.g. one that gives a chance the missile will ignore a missile lock evade (I'll leave the devs to determine the % of that chance, so the ship isn't OP). The Star Guard has two primary weapons - so give him unique primary weapons (and let's fix the Ion cannon while we're at it ) and some systems that give unique ability to the primary weapons. E.g. a system that allows both primary weapons to be fired at the same time, but at X% increased weapon power draw (again, devs can figure out the X%, so not to be OP or it can be an active skill that will allow both weapons to be fired only for a short time and then CD). This way (at least the way I see it), you give the Star Guard a short time to do massive burst dmg.

 

So, there are just some of my thoughts. Whether they're good or not, I don't know. But generally, what I really think the Strike Fighter is missing is something unique to bring to the table. Define their role and then define unique components for them.

Edited August 16, 2015 by Grdosija

[JasonSzeremi]

Total GSF noob here, so don't screm at me but anyway, here's my 2 cents. Also I didn't read all the 50+ posts, because I kinda have stuff to do so please don't get angry if I'm suggesting something that's already been suggested

 

Pike is the missile boat, so give him a unique missile or two and unique systems for those missiles, e.g. one that gives a chance the missile will ignore a missile lock evade (I'll leave the devs to determine the % of that chance, so the ship isn't OP). The Star Guard has two primary weapons - so give him unique primary weapons (and let's fix the Ion cannon while we're at it ) and some systems that give unique ability to the primary weapons. E.g. a system that allows both primary weapons to be fired at the same time, but at X% increased weapon power draw (again, devs can figure out the X%, so not to be OP or it can be an active skill that will allow both weapons to be fired only for a short time and then CD). This way (at least the way I see it), you give the Star Guard a short time to do massive burst dmg.

 

So, there are just some of my thoughts. Whether they're good or not, I don't know. But generally, what I really think the Strike Fighter is missing is something unique to bring to the table. Define their role and then define unique components for them.

 

What seems to be 'unique' to strikes is a dependence on missiles for burst damage/as a secondary weapon, missiles have many advantages... if you can get them off they take less dead-eye accuracy on the part of the pilot to hit their target, they do significant damage, the longer they take to lock the more damage/dot/ or shield piercing they do.

 

Strikes are also one of the only platforms which switches between two of the same family of weapons (t1 and t2 both have this feature) yet they have a small listing of those weapons. If you wanted to capitalize on the uniqueness of this feature, the T1 should have more primary weapon options.... perhaps every primary weapon in gsf, let the pilots experiment with them and find a good build for themselves.... say a T1 with ion cannons and burst lasers perhaps. Just thinking of strikes as fighter craft with larger chassis and power supplies then scouts, or comparable in size to gunships, I can't think of a physical reason they couldn't mount any primary weapon in gsf... that would make them 'generalists' alright, but with two weapons to pick from, if they are good weapons the pilots could custom specialize them for their flying style. The T2 being able to do the same with missiles should probably have any missile in the game to pick from.... perhaps interdiction missiles would compliment another well or a nice straifing run on someone who can't out turn them anymore. sabotage probe followed up by a torpedo? the possibilities for good builds if you give the missile specialists all the seeking weapons to choose from.... or even allow them rocket pods (why exactly can't a strike mount rocket pods? it can't be take off weight?) pods and heavy lasers or quads..... isn't this a known design? Why couldn't a strike do it..... and a T1 or T2 could switch roles with the press of a key. T1 with pods and heavy lasers would be quiet a mine clearer, T2 with quads and pods or torps would make a bomber's day miserable.

 

What the strike is good at, at the moment, is a fair bit of dog fighting and shooting down the unskilled. and making people blow missile breaks, some of them (maneuvers) can force a pilot to peal from a target. I've shot down some of the best pilots in my strike.... but they were dog fighting someone else and had probably blown many of their missile breaks. The inability to kick out good burst damage vs skilled pilots means strikes are relegated to playing tie fighter vs the x-wings.... out number and try to force them to waste their cool downs so somebody can land a missile. If someone can, they would rather take the X-wing... which is the crux of the problem, pilots of equal skill in strikes are unable to meet parity with scouts or gunships.... which increasingly seem to resemble scouts.

(a few unique strike-only weapons might be nice too.... say a range 8k gatling cannon or that cruise missile the T2 gunship was _supposed_ to have, or a forward fired missile-mine that locks onto the first target that comes into range. If the gunships can mount a rail-gun on even the dogfight frame of the condor/jurgran what could you put into the strike's chassis?)

[Caernos]

You know...there was a multi-colored post in here, many hundreds of pages ago, where someone was talking about how Strikes can't do a multi-role position because it doesn't have access to the other classes special abilities.

 

So that got me thinking? What if you just added some of those weapon components to some of the strikes. They wouldn't be as effective with them as the actual ship class (presumably, I'm not an actual theory crafter) but they would be much more of a multi-role/support ship.

 

I mean let's look at the Scouts, bombers and gunships. Scouts have a systems component, bombers have mines/drones, and gunships have railguns. So what would it be like if you gave one strike, access to one of those special components? For example, what if you gave the Rycer the ability to swap to a railgun and the Quell the ability to swap to a mine? The rycer could use its railgun to support a GS and would be able to mix it up in a dogfight a little bit better than the GS could. The quell could use its mine to support a bomber on defense, but then mix it up a little bit better in a dogfight than a bomber could/can.

 

I've no idea if this idea has already been discussed or what it would actually do to game balance but I feel like this would definitely make strikes more of a dedicated support/multi-role than they currently are. Just my opinion though. And if anyone wants to poke hole in the idea, please do. As I said, I'm not a theorycrafter, if this is a bad idea, please explain it to me.

[Danalon]

Cool idea, but you're too late. BW already implemented it.

 

What you're describing is the T1 Strike becoming a worse version of the T3 Gunship (or a T2 Gunship with more missile options) and the T2 Strike becoming a T3 Bomber.

 

Also the T1 and T2 Strike wouldn't be Strikes anymore.

Edited August 21, 2015 by Danalon

[Caernos]

What you're describing is the T1 Strike becoming a worse version of the T3 Gunship (or a T2 Gunship with more missile options) and the T2 Strike becoming a T3 Bomber.

 

Not only these ships already exist, but also the T1 and T2 Strike wouldn't be Strikes anymore.

 

Okay fair point that it would create some redundancy...but why say they wouldn't be strike anymore? I mean I wasn't suggesting to change the chassis for them and Strikes are generally more mobile than gunships and certainly more mobile than bombers.

 

Also, thank you for taking time to respond. Much appreciated.

[ALaggyGrunt]

You know...there was a multi-colored post in here, many hundreds of pages ago, where someone was talking about how Strikes can't do a multi-role position because it doesn't have access to the other classes special abilities.

 

So that got me thinking? What if you just added some of those weapon components to some of the strikes. They wouldn't be as effective with them as the actual ship class (presumably, I'm not an actual theory crafter) but they would be much more of a multi-role/support ship.

 

I mean let's look at the Scouts, bombers and gunships. Scouts have a systems component, bombers have mines/drones, and gunships have railguns. So what would it be like if you gave one strike, access to one of those special components? For example, what if you gave the Rycer the ability to swap to a railgun and the Quell the ability to swap to a mine? The rycer could use its railgun to support a GS and would be able to mix it up in a dogfight a little bit better than the GS could. The quell could use its mine to support a bomber on defense, but then mix it up a little bit better in a dogfight than a bomber could/can.

 

I've no idea if this idea has already been discussed or what it would actually do to game balance but I feel like this would definitely make strikes more of a dedicated support/multi-role than they currently are. Just my opinion though. And if anyone wants to poke hole in the idea, please do. As I said, I'm not a theorycrafter, if this is a bad idea, please explain it to me.

 

That post described the Jurgoran and Sledgehammer.